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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 284

post #8491 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

exa, my comment was about this: "The Seos 15 is too small to be used down to 3-400hz..." in the link you'll see what i'm talking about.

the prove is in the Noesis...
post #8492 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

BMS has a couple. I'm sure there's others out there too.

Ah, sure enough. Thank you.
post #8493 of 9844
I've got the SEOS18/TD15M/BA750 parts in my possession.smile.gif

I'll be going for max. sound quality for a 90% music/10% movies system. I initially wanted to go with a ported design, ~6 cu ft with a tuning freq. around 35hz. I'd start to bring the subs in @ F3/ 50hz. Presently, my latest plan is for a 3 cu ft sealed design. Hmm.... would I get better SQ with a sealed box? From what I've heard, a sealed enclosure would be easier to integrate with my subs. A 3 cu ft box would be easier to make stiff, dead and would not dominate my living room like a 6 ft3 box.

I plan to make the box very dead using a constrained layer between two sheets of ~9/16" void free 11 layer ply. Here's a very interesting build thread that has some box construction ideas which I may use.http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/218437-3-way-active-time-aligned-constrained-layer-construction.html

I plan to go with an active crossover. After the dust clears, I don't think it would be much cheaper to use a passive crossover, besides I don't have any experience designing passive crossovers. Digital amps aren't that expensive nowadays and I already have a nice tube amp for the CD. The data shows that the BA750 is fairly flat to 650hz, so I could then pass it to the TD15M. It would be great if a reasonably priced beryllium diaphragm could be found for the BA 750. Although this is an attempt at a fairly high end design, I do have to keep an eye on the costs.

I'd like the speakers to be a freestanding box design with the back side corners cut ~3" @45 degrees. The SEOS18 would sit on top and partially enclosed in its own box. The good thing about this arrangement is that the bass bin would be totally separate in case I wanted to experiment with other waveguides. It would also make moving the speakers easier and separate the vibes of the woofer from the WG.

I still haven't decided exactly what I want to do, so if any of you have some suggestions or advice, it would be appreciated.
post #8494 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

exa, my comment was about this: "The Seos 15 is too small to be used down to 3-400hz..." in the link you'll see what i'm talking about.

Ah right, i see what you are saying now. I was just more thinking of the whole packeage when i wrote what i wrote. But i guess a version with 1.4"/1.5" throat and a coax would get you down there if you really wanted. Tho atm, the Seos 15 is just available with a 1" troat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

the prove is in the Noesis...

Well, not directly. It uses another horn, not the Seos 15...
post #8495 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

the prove is in the Noesis...

How do the Noesis maintain directivity to 400hz with relatively small waveguides?
post #8496 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajacat View Post

How do the Noesis maintain directivity to 400hz with relatively small waveguides?

They don't. Like LTD02 was explaining (see his old post), the compression driver has the balls to cross well below the waveguide cut off. So the waveguide lets go of the directivity and the beamwidth broadens at the same time as the woofer. What sounds good is the point source sound. Not terribly difficult to do.
post #8497 of 9844
i think if more people knew how much of a monster that comp driver on the Noesis is they would understand
post #8498 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

i think if more people knew how much of a monster that comp driver on the Noesis is they would understand
Here's that same CD in a SEOS 24.

post #8499 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXa View Post

Ah right, i see what you are saying now. I was just more thinking of the whole packeage when i wrote what i wrote. But i guess a version with 1.4"/1.5" throat and a coax would get you down there if you really wanted. Tho atm, the Seos 15 is just available with a 1" troat?
Well, not directly. It uses another horn, not the Seos 15...

No reason why the SEOS 15 can't be made with a 1.4 inch throat... we are talking about HIGH END here.... Why go halfway?? tongue.gif
post #8500 of 9844
It costs a lot to make the injection molds. Most people aren't gonna want the 1.4 throat. And that's if it even can be done. The profile might not accomodate that size of throat. But I really don't know those things.

If you want a Noesis beater, it should probably just be done a different way.

A DNA-360 on a SEOS 10 might be interesting. Crossed to an MTM with 8 or 10" woofers at 1000hz might make for a Noesis Mini smile.gif
post #8501 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

Here's that same CD in a SEOS 24.


Did somebody really measure that CD down to 10Hz? eek.gif
post #8502 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

It costs a lot to make the injection molds. Most people aren't gonna want the 1.4 throat. And that's if it even can be done. The profile might not accomodate that size of throat. But I really don't know those things.

If you want a Noesis beater, it should probably just be done a different way.

A DNA-360 on a SEOS 10 might be interesting. Crossed to an MTM with 8 or 10" woofers at 1000hz might make for a Noesis Mini smile.gif

Mmmmm... sounds a lot like a tux 1099 biggrin.gif
post #8503 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper33 View Post

Did somebody really measure that CD down to 10Hz? eek.gif

I always measure tweeters from 20hz. The excursion in a sealed tweeter is the same at 20hz as it is at 200hz or even higher depending on the tweeter.
post #8504 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

I always measure tweeters from 20hz. The excursion in a sealed tweeter is the same at 20hz as it is at 200hz or even higher depending on the tweeter.
Do they often show meaningful output down there like this one did?
post #8505 of 9844
Not really, but it's good to measure the woofer at least an octave below where you need data, and it's good to measure the tweeter and woofer the same way. It helps with the modelling. So I usually just do it. I've tried to protect tweeters in the past and it just turns into a head ache.
post #8506 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper33 View Post

Did somebody really measure that CD down to 10Hz? eek.gif
What, no good? biggrin.gif

In the setting I measured these, below 200hz is to be ignored.
post #8507 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post


If you want a Noesis beater, it should probably just be done a different way.

A DNA-360 on a SEOS 10 might be interesting. Crossed to an MTM with 8 or 10" woofers at 1000hz might make for a Noesis Mini smile.gif

That sounds like an interesting idea.
I wonder how it would work for setups troubled with floor and/or ceiling bounce?
post #8508 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

It costs a lot to make the injection molds. Most people aren't gonna want the 1.4 throat. And that's if it even can be done. The profile might not accomodate that size of throat. But I really don't know those things.

If you want a Noesis beater, it should probably just be done a different way.

A DNA-360 on a SEOS 10 might be interesting. Crossed to an MTM with 8 or 10" woofers at 1000hz might make for a Noesis Mini smile.gif


Sounds like the Noesis 228 - I'm pretty sure it crosses over around 1000hz and it does have dual 8's. Archaea and I switched speakers for awhile so I have his 228's and they sound great, a SEOS DIY speaker that sounds like this for not a lot of money would be killer!







Here are some older pictures showing both speakers:






post #8509 of 9844
Huh, I didn't know about that little guy. Challenge accepted biggrin.gif

How much are the 228s? I'm seeing $1200?
post #8510 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Huh, I didn't know about that little guy. Challenge accepted biggrin.gif

How much are the 228s? I'm seeing $1200?


Yep, 1200. The only reason they exist is Archaea really wanted to get a speaker that would bridge the gap for music between the 888's and Noesis and save a lot of money and this is what Jeff came up with. They've been selling like hot cakes.

What would the DIY SEOS version cost?

Little guy smile.gif ... yeah they look "cute" to me next to the 212's. They are still crazy impressive though! smile.gif
post #8511 of 9844
Well, depends on the quality of components. It could be done for as little as $250 in parts. Or as much as $5000. Would depend what I found that would fit the bill. I have a pair of eminence alpha 8a. That would be cheap. Maybe a pair of $100 B&C woofers would be cool.
post #8512 of 9844
The 228 is a 2-way with 18Sound XR1064. Probably either the 4550 or 4552ND?


post #8513 of 9844
228 = 4547ND
post #8514 of 9844
How much are the parts worth in the 228 ? What are the exact driver , cd ? If they sell for 1200 you have to think about 800 tops.
post #8515 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

How much are the parts worth in the 228 ? What are the exact driver , cd ? If they sell for 1200 you have to think about 800 tops.
Its about $600.
2 x 8" Eminence woofers
18 sounds horn XR1064
BMS 4547ND
Very good quality XO components
50lb 3/4" Birch plywood cabinet
post #8516 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Well, depends on the quality of components. It could be done for as little as $250 in parts. Or as much as $5000. Would depend what I found that would fit the bill. I have a pair of eminence alpha 8a. That would be cheap. Maybe a pair of $100 B&C woofers would be cool.

yea do it with the B&C 8PS21 would make a cool looking speaker.
post #8517 of 9844
There are some new designs in the works right now, but I can't mention all of them of course. biggrin.gif

I've drawn out the MTM using the SEOS-10 with dual 8's and the DNA-360 or even the BA-750. The only "issue" is that I'm guessing the SEOS would have to be rotated horizontally for the center channel, which would put about 11.5" between the woofers. I'm not sure if this would cause any problems or not.

There are some even smaller models coming as well. Believe it or not, some people get the Fusion-8 and are amazed at how much power it actually has. So they would like some smaller speakers for surrounds. Those are coming too. Actually, they're done, we're just waiting on the waveguides to get here.

A few designs might need to go directly into completed speaker form. Of course I'm going to continue with the kits, but if there isn't a way to generate some type of funds to continue this massive project, it really can't go too much farther. With the items coming in about a month, and all the parts I have right now, it's well into the six figure range on all of this.....as a 'hobby'. Some of you know that MTG-90 has stopped down here at my place for a little while to help me get organized and work on new projects. I think even he was surprised at just how much 'stuff' all of this has generated. cool.gif
post #8518 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

There are some new designs in the works right now, but I can't mention all of them of course. biggrin.gif

I've drawn out the MTM using the SEOS-10 with dual 8's and the DNA-360 or even the BA-750. The only "issue" is that I'm guessing the SEOS would have to be rotated horizontally for the center channel, which would put about 11.5" between the woofers. I'm not sure if this would cause any problems or not.

There are some even smaller models coming as well. Believe it or not, some people get the Fusion-8 and are amazed at how much power it actually has. So they would like some smaller speakers for surrounds. Those are coming too. Actually, they're done, we're just waiting on the waveguides to get here.

A few designs might need to go directly into completed speaker form. Of course I'm going to continue with the kits, but if there isn't a way to generate some type of funds to continue this massive project, it really can't go too much farther. With the items coming in about a month, and all the parts I have right now, it's well into the six figure range on all of this.....as a 'hobby'. Some of you know that MTG-90 has stopped down here at my place for a little while to help me get organized and work on new projects. I think even he was surprised at just how much 'stuff' all of this has generated. cool.gif

6 figures. Wow that's what a house cost. I would def like to thank you for all these efforts... still figuring ways to get some stuff from you.
post #8519 of 9844
I'll say it too... thanks for all you do, Erich, and also to everyone else who has contributed time and effort to make it possible.
Order placed.
Joseph
post #8520 of 9844
Will be placing order for.some minions in the next.month. keep up the great.work
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