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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 294

post #8791 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post


The FL-450 does have a better high end, but some people can't hear up that high.

*MOST cool.gif

It does appear to have less of a down tilt to the FR which might require less compensation. That should be a good thing.
post #8792 of 9844
What is the diaphragm material for the FL-450. That top end could very well be break-up, which may give some sparkle but could be fatiguing like titanium tends to be. I am not saying it is like that, but that who knows.
post #8793 of 9844
It's a polyimide material but a little different than the 4550 or DE250. I had Mylar and coated titanium for it as well.

I also asked for Beryllium diaphragms, but they'd have to be custom made and pretty expensive.
post #8794 of 9844
Got a quick stupid question. Does the Alpha-8 Minion come with a flat black Eos 8 WG? The picture on the website show gloss black.

Also...not as stupid but, I'm just interested in music right now and just wanting L/R. Debating between the Fusion 8, Fusion 10, or Alpha 8. Looks aren't everything but I like the looks of the Alpha 8 driver better, especially if it comes with the flat black WG.

Should I consider one of the larger kits? My room is 2000 cuft sealed HT/Music room. 10-12' listening distance. About 9' between L/R setting on top of dual Rythmik LV12R's subs. Thoughts appreciated.

I posted this to the website email but I gather Erich is a bit busy so I thought I'd hit you guys up for some expertise.
Edited by Kpilk - 1/2/14 at 10:42am
post #8795 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Got a quick stupid question. Does the Alpha-8 Minion come with a flat black Eos 8 WG? The picture on the website show gloss black.

Also...not as stupid but, I'm just interested in music right now and just wanting L/R. Debating between the Fusion 8, Fusion 10, or Alpha 8. Looks aren't everything but I like the looks of the Alpha 8 driver better, especially if it comes with the flat black WG.

Should I consider one of the larger kits? My room is 2000 cuft sealed HT/Music room. 10-12' listening distance. About 9' between L/R setting on top of dual Rythmik LV12R's subs. Thoughts appreciated.

I posted this to the website email but I gather Erich is a bit busy so I thought I'd hit you guys up for some expertise.

Ok...got the answer to that one. Now...which one given my circumstances. I'd like the flat pack and assembled XO. The alpha-8 is out of stock.eek.gif
post #8796 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Got a quick stupid question. Does the Alpha-8 Minion come with a flat black Eos 8 WG? The picture on the website show gloss black.

Also...not as stupid but, I'm just interested in music right now and just wanting L/R. Debating between the Fusion 8, Fusion 10, or Alpha 8. Looks aren't everything but I like the looks of the Alpha 8 driver better, especially if it comes with the flat black WG.

Should I consider one of the larger kits? My room is 2000 cuft sealed HT/Music room. 10-12' listening distance. About 9' between L/R setting on top of dual Rythmik LV12R's subs. Thoughts appreciated.

I posted this to the website email but I gather Erich is a bit busy so I thought I'd hit you guys up for some expertise.

The minion can come with a flat black if you request
e6agejut.jpg

They will easily fill up your 2000 sqft space. I really enjoy them. The only downside is they don't have a tonne of midbass . If your subs cover the bass then their for you.
post #8797 of 9844
So I got a few questions. I want to build a couple Fusion-12 Tempest but in a sealed design primarily for reduced size and I prefer the sound of sealed.
Does anyone know if this kit will work;
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/fusion12-kit.html

With this flat pack;

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/seos-flat-packs/1cu-seos-flat-pack.html

and this baffle; .

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-baffles/seos-ae12-sealed-baffle.html

The baffle says its for the SEOS 12 WG and the A&E 12" woofers with a cutout of 12.6". The Delta Pro 12A has a cutout diameter listed at 12.4" and I assumed this baffle would work for the Delta Pro 12A woofer (1/10" has got to be close enought). I realize the ported design calls for 2 cf but the sealed recommendation from Eminence is .54cf so I assume it would work. Would this screw up the XO design. I want the assembled XO too and it looks like the are down to just one left....eek.gif My luck.

I will be running these with dual 12" subs so not overly concerned about the lower end as long as I can crossover at 80hz I'll be fine. 80/20 Music to HT. Does anyone know if someone is monitoring the website or the emails...I've left a few over the last week and no response. Little wary of dropping $800 with know one on the other end. I understand they are really busy and this isn't their job but If I could get a response I'd love to get the ball rolling.

Thanks.
Edited by Kpilk - 1/3/14 at 8:26pm
post #8798 of 9844

I built my Tempest-12 in a sealed enclosure and when I ordered my kit I asked eric to replace the ported baffle with the Deltalite-12 baffle which has the same woofer cut out. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html

You can find more info about my build here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461315/sealed-tempest-lcr-dual-one-pi-surround/0_100

 

I'm not sure if eric is still doing this so you'll will have to contact him. I don't know if the Tempest-12 woofer will fit in the 1cu ft flat pack, the rear brace might get in the way. I have not properly measured my speakers -3db point but in room Audyssey sets the Tempests to 40-60hz. Winisd predicts the -3db point at ~100hz in a 1cu ft enclosure. No crossover change it needed because you are only affecting the low end.

post #8799 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

I built my Tempest-12 in a sealed enclosure and when I ordered my kit I asked eric to replace the ported baffle with the Deltalite-12 baffle which has the same woofer cut out. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/seos-deltalite-kit.html
You can find more info about my build here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461315/sealed-tempest-lcr-dual-one-pi-surround/0_100

I'm not sure if eric is still doing this so you'll will have to contact him. I don't know if the Tempest-12 woofer will fit in the 1cu ft flat pack, the rear brace might get in the way. I have not properly measured my speakers -3db point but in room Audyssey sets the Tempests to 40-60hz. Winisd predicts the -3db point at ~100hz in a 1cu ft enclosure. No crossover change it needed because you are only affecting the low end.

Thanks for the reply. So where did your cabinet volume come out? I'll check the cutout for the Deltalite kit so see how close things are. I've got an email into Erich...but was hoping he would pop on here (or one of his designer/cohorts types. Much appreicated.

Edit...yes the Deltalite and Tempest woofers have the same cutout diameter. Still not sure whether the 12.4" vs. the 12.6" is enough to worry about but I've never done this before.
post #8800 of 9844

I think it came out to 1cu ft.

post #8801 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Edit...yes the Deltalite and Tempest woofers have the same cutout diameter. Still not sure whether the 12.4" vs. the 12.6" is enough to worry about but I've never done this before.

Beyond cosmetics, it won't matter much on the outside edge. Maybe fill the gap with foam or caulk to hide the gap if you care. However, you will have less material for the mounting screws to bite into since the inner diameter will also be larger. Easy enough to deal with if you plan ahead.
post #8802 of 9844
Has one come up with a design for surrounds that are 7.5" deep or less? Perhaps to complement the Fusion Tempests?
post #8803 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by memmo View Post

Has one come up with a design for surrounds that are 7.5" deep or less? Perhaps to complement the Fusion Tempests?

Was wondering this too. I don't need them a certain depth but need something CHEAP that will even START to keep up with the Tempests
post #8804 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Thanks for the reply. So where did your cabinet volume come out? I'll check the cutout for the Deltalite kit so see how close things are. I've got an email into Erich...but was hoping he would pop on here (or one of his designer/cohorts types. Much appreicated.

Edit...yes the Deltalite and Tempest woofers have the same cutout diameter. Still not sure whether the 12.4" vs. the 12.6" is enough to worry about but I've never done this before.

For those who might be interested in this approach...Erich said it wasn't that easy. The baffle for the 1 cf flatpack comes with a 10" cutout and port cutouts because its intended to be use with the Fusion 10 Pure. OK...then...I'll just have to decide which way I want to go. I have a habit at shopping for bargains like the Fusion-8 and ending up with the Zephyr....eek.gif

I'd love to go all out with the Tempest or Zephyr but some of the pics online make them look huge. Not a big factor as its a dedicated HT...mostly used for music. The Fusion or Alpha 8's are probably the logical options, but what does logic have to do with it?wink.gif

Any input into this choice. Erich seems to prefer the Fusion-12 over the Zephyr when a subwoofer is used, but the Zephyr is probably the choice if running full. The Fusion 10 Pure is the tweener...but about as big as any of the 12's so no space saving there. Looking forward to getting this project started and finished before the end of winter.
post #8805 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Thanks for the reply. So where did your cabinet volume come out? I'll check the cutout for the Deltalite kit so see how close things are. I've got an email into Erich...but was hoping he would pop on here (or one of his designer/cohorts types. Much appreicated.

Edit...yes the Deltalite and Tempest woofers have the same cutout diameter. Still not sure whether the 12.4" vs. the 12.6" is enough to worry about but I've never done this before.

For those who might be interested in this approach...Erich said it wasn't that easy. The baffle for the 1 cf flatpack comes with a 10" cutout and port cutouts because its intended to be use with the Fusion 10 Pure. OK...then...I'll just have to decide which way I want to go. I have a habit at shopping for bargains like the Fusion-8 and ending up with the Zephyr....eek.gif

I'd love to go all out with the Tempest or Zephyr but some of the pics online make them look huge. Not a big factor as its a dedicated HT...mostly used for music. The Fusion or Alpha 8's are probably the logical options, but what does logic have to do with it?wink.gif

Any input into this choice. Erich seems to prefer the Fusion-12 over the Zephyr when a subwoofer is used, but the Zephyr is probably the choice if running full. The Fusion 10 Pure is the tweener...but about as big as any of the 12's so no space saving there. Looking forward to getting this project started and finished before the end of winter.

Maybe do what I did. Started with the minion with them eventually going to the rear but their so good that I can live with them at the front for a few months.
post #8806 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpilk View Post

Any input into this choice. Erich seems to prefer the Fusion-12 over the Zephyr when a subwoofer is used, but the Zephyr is probably the choice if running full. The Fusion 10 Pure is the tweener...but about as big as any of the 12's so no space saving there. Looking forward to getting this project started and finished before the end of winter.

I didn't actually say I preferred the Tempest over the Zephyr. biggrin.gif I said that if you are using a subwoofer system, there isn't going to be much difference between the two speakers. If you weren't going to use subwoofers and listening to music, then I would say the Zephyr would be the better choice because it's more of a full range speaker.
post #8807 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkkwaz View Post

Was wondering this too. I don't need them a certain depth but need something CHEAP that will even START to keep up with the Tempests

Surrounds don't need to be timbre matched to the mains. The coaxial models will get plenty loud enough. I can't recall the depth need for the 8" model, but it could probably be put in a shallow box around 7.5". I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that would work.
post #8808 of 9844
Thread Starter 
post #8809 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I didn't actually say I preferred the Tempest over the Zephyr. biggrin.gif I said that if you are using a subwoofer system, there isn't going to be much difference between the two speakers. If you weren't going to use subwoofers and listening to music, then I would say the Zephyr would be the better choice because it's more of a full range speaker.

Stand corrected. wink.gif I really like running subs so I think I'll kick in for a pair of Tempests. I've been reading this monster thread and gaining a lot of info. There's just a huge $$ difference from the Fusion 8's to the Zephyr's. From all the posts, the 8" versions bring plenty but the 12's bring moar...as one of the posters likes to say.biggrin.gif
post #8810 of 9844
Might not be the best place for this question but I value the opinion of the ppl on the DIY forum and this thread in particular.

Is there any advantage to running an array of rear surrounds ? Those minions look like great surround speakers, but being a horn and couple it with a narrow and long room would it be better to run a pair of them for surrounds (making 6 total for a 7.1 system not counting LCR)
post #8811 of 9844
Quote:

Hopefully he's tried more than that small amp for those speakers. biggrin.gif


I should get a video of a Tempest really being cranked with some more bass heavy music. But I'm not sure what kind of mic would be needed for that though.
post #8812 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"Is there any advantage to running an array of rear surrounds ? Those minions look like great surround speakers, but being a horn and couple it with a narrow and long room would it be better to run a pair of them for surrounds (making 6 total for a 7.1 system not counting LCR)"

that depends on what you are trying to do. there is no spec for surrounds.

in some sense, the ideal is a circle with 5-7 speakers located on the circumference and your head in the center. that's not always possible though and only works for one spot.

for a while thx spec "bipole" speakers on the walls aimed forward and backward in order to create a very diffuse soundfield. not sure if they still spec that or not.

imax specs 5 speakers (not counting "god channel"), horn loaded, in the corners and front/center, all aimed to the middle 60% seat or so.

obviously other theaters use all kinds of arrays of horn loaded speakers, some with varying delay timing.

other folks aim their surrounds at the ceiling and let the ceiling make a diffuse surround field.

so, long story short, there isn't a spec or a standard and just about any way you can think of it, it is probably being done somewhere.

one decent solution with horns is to mount them over your head on the sides/rear and aim them at the person on the opposite side of the room. the off axis response to the person near the speaker will help compensate for them being close while the on-axis sound from the speaker further away will help keep its level up.
Edited by LTD02 - 1/4/14 at 8:58pm
post #8813 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"Hopefully he's tried more than that small amp for those speakers."

yeah...i thought that first vid did a pretty good job of showing how musical the speakers are. he is probably only at about 1/100th of a watt in that vid. :-)

one of those vids from 100 yards away that is zoomed in and then zooms out to show the distance might be fun once it warms up.
post #8814 of 9844
Eric,

Would it be possible to put options to upgrade certain kits to use the dna 360? For instance the Fusion 8 MTM or the Co-Axials (this is so that people who are willing to pay for a better compression driver but want a different sized or designed speaker can still get that quality sound).

Also, any plans to include Subwoofers? (perhaps smallish, horn loaded ones that can work with the current offerings). Right now, it's not easy to get together a full 5.1 system... biggrin.gif

And another suggestion: Surround speaker options. (Several kinds to fit the different levels of speakers on offer).
post #8815 of 9844
Yes MTG's videos have been great. More of those type would be awesome.
post #8816 of 9844
Thread Starter 
building on a previous post. again, tempests in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df1omdZTLoA



/\ /\ tiny amp, maybe 10 watts max?

\/ \/ big adcom amp, maybe 200-300 watts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=H_3jaYIDS2Y



i guess that is what dave wilson calls dynamic contrast. :-)

more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hHBOcu_b7SI



more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qPzzSGO4pfk



maybe all three b&w guys just had bad mics... :-)~

more... (i guess this guy with "dream system" has bad mic too)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s_QRUPxrIk4



more... "try playing this at realistic levels...drum test...brute force dynamics test" lol...i kept waiting for the dynamics to kick in.

jump forward to 7:40 if the link doesn't automatically get you there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Oc6NAJfGwJI#t=457



MUST WATCH...^^...the voice over is hilarious.

the test tracks in that vid are available here:

http://www.chesky.com/various-artists--chesky-jazz-amp-tests-volume-2.html

more...this time norah jones...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtJmI3YjIc



now, forward to the 1:30 mark in this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=avu_kpqGEe4#t=89

not seos, but same idea.

"The best I can describe the sound is 'real'. Its about as real as I've heard from any speaker."





any questions? :-)

well, the question was is something like the tempest or a pseudo-econowave diy project any good for music?

many would argue that b&w are some of the finest, most musical speakers, and as a result are found in many of the top recording/mastering studios around the world. i'm not picking on b&w. they are a reasonable benchmark to compare with. i think keith yates just put a set in george lucas' theatre mastering room. i'm not picking on him either. :-)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506232/keith-yates-on-the-ultimate-home-theater

enjoy.

.
Edited by LTD02 - 1/5/14 at 1:20am
post #8817 of 9844
Hey that amp puts out 20 watts for 21$. Apparently its quite good for computer room. On my cell phone the b&w sounded great .wink.gif what's the deal with 20k speakers and 1k TV's . Pathetic cool.gif
post #8818 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Surrounds don't need to be timbre matched to the mains.

Do you consider that to be true for multichannel music?
post #8819 of 9844
Thread Starter 
with multichannel music, you want timbre matched speakers because in some sense, they are all "mains".
post #8820 of 9844
Multichannel music where music is coming from the rear is a cacophony of sound.
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