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Hey guys...we need a little rallying here... - Page 299

post #8941 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Actually I am also stuck with choices.

The zephyr 12 or the Tempest 12. The Zephyr goes lower but gives up a bit of Sensitivity. Anyone tested both?
Both go the same depth. For movies you still need a sub for both. Save the money and get the tempest .
post #8942 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Both go the same depth. For movies you still need a sub for both. Save the money and get the tempest .

Looks like you're right. Not sure where i got the 'deeper' part. Must be my subsconscious adding it all up considering the zephyr is less sensitive..

Anyone actually heard both? A comparison would be great.. if one sounds better or have better midbass, i don't mind paying the extra...
post #8943 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Both go the same depth. For movies you still need a sub for both. Save the money and get the tempest .

Looks like you're right. Not sure where i got the 'deeper' part. Must be my subsconscious adding it all up considering the zephyr is less sensitive..

Anyone actually heard both? A comparison would be great.. if one sounds better or have better midbass, i don't mind paying the extra...
The Tempest was originally tuned a little higher, gave up a tad bit of extension for more midbass kick. Later the tuning was changed and they ended up more similar. I think the Tempest may still have a bit more midbass energy and the designer is on record saying he really likes the speaker a lot, especially for the classic rock he often enjoys, but also says the Zephyr is technically cleaner with lower measured distortion. Dunno if anybody else has heard both.
post #8944 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

The Tempest was originally tuned a little higher, gave up a tad bit of extension for more midbass kick. Later the tuning was changed and they ended up more similar. I think the Tempest may still have a bit more midbass energy and the designer is on record saying he really likes the speaker a lot, especially for the classic rock he often enjoys, but also says the Zephyr is technically cleaner with lower measured distortion. Dunno if anybody else has heard both.

It's looking like I am going to have to save myself some money then.. smile.gif

Unless someone here have heard the Zephyr and thinks it's definitely better (not just on paper).. but subjectively sounds better...
post #8945 of 9844
I know there are lots of satisfied Tempest owners out there. smile.gif I have no business speaking for Jeff Bagby the designer, or Erich, but following the threads and reading between the lines a bit one comes away with the impression that the Tempest was a real sleeper hit. IIRC the Zephyr was first, and came out great, then Jeff decided to try something with a bit less expensive woofer and just absolutely nailed the crossover, hit it right out of the park.

Apologies to all parties if I've misrepresented anything, that's just my impression from reading along all these months.

And if someone comes along who has heard the speakers (I have not) you should definitely pay attention to them and ignore me. smile.gif
post #8946 of 9844
^^^^ my impressions are the same.
Just saw this on Wikipedia and thought it was cool. I'm sure its been posted before but if you are like me and not exactly sure how compression drivers worked then its helpful

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_driver

The animated picture is the cool one
Edited by chalugadp - 1/13/14 at 4:11am
post #8947 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

I know there are lots of satisfied Tempest owners out there. smile.gif I have no business speaking for Jeff Bagby the designer, or Erich, but following the threads and reading between the lines a bit one comes away with the impression that the Tempest was a real sleeper hit. IIRC the Zephyr was first, and came out great, then Jeff decided to try something with a bit less expensive woofer and just absolutely nailed the crossover, hit it right out of the park.

Apologies to all parties if I've misrepresented anything, that's just my impression from reading along all these months.

And if someone comes along who has heard the speakers (I have not) you should definitely pay attention to them and ignore me. smile.gif

You convinced me... unless someone tells me otherwise, it's tempest for me...
post #8948 of 9844
I have not been around for a while, doing other things. I am considering building a kit to check out horns for my home theater.

I currently have 3 clearwave Dynamic 4C's across the front and I like them.

http://www.clearwavespeakers.com/webapps/category/98515/300200/82317

The photos on Jeds website are from my theater. I am running them with a Danley DTS10. I would power the Horn speakers with my existing Outlaw Model 2200 200 watt monoblocks.

The price range is wide so I am wondering how far you have to go. Back when I was more active on the site the big thing about these speakers was mid bass and I guess that is what I am going for.

I think I would build them in basic black, Duratex probably. The Danley get erratic above 100 hz so I was hoping to run the mains down lower.

Sorry I did not read all 300 pages, I hope someone will take the time to help me out.
post #8949 of 9844
ChopShop1's 415CT build is shaping up nicely:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1457166/s-e-o-s-r-mega-build/1320#post_24201663
Fantastic!

I want to build LCR and (preferably identical) Surround speakers for our 5,000 cubic feet HT. I have 2 large 18" subs ready, tuned to 13 Hz.

I have been seriously looking at BEF's inConcert Miles LCR build, which uses the Beyma TPL150H Airmotion tweeter plus two Beyma 15" midwoofers. Same kind of tweeter that are in my Airmotiv 5 that I like very much.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416004/bef-from-norway-diy-uncompromising-theater

Downside of the Miles is two-fold:
1/ It needs a dedicated midrange added, which complicates things as I'd like to go active with a miniDSP 10x10 HD. Three-way means 2 devices for 5 speakers. And 15 amp channels vs 10.
2/ Although the horn is supposed to cover 80°, that's -6dB. In reality, it's only 40°.

The 4 Beyma drivers are about €1,200 for each speaker... which is a lot, but perhaps they are worth it. But maybe there are other options?

Had a look at the Fusion-15 Sentinel before. I have the feeling I want something even a bit bigger! But not as large as the 415CT. What about a 2-way with the new SEOS-15 waveguide? Are these available for purchase yet?

Which would be the best tweeter and (15") woofers for it, size of cabinet not really an object (the Miles is 200 liters net)?

Alternatively, I would be looking at a coaxial (BMS 4594 or so) instead of just a tweeter. Maybe using a passive x-over between high-mid and active between mid-low. Is that a good idea?
post #8950 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

What about a 2-way with the new SEOS-15 waveguide? Are these available for purchase yet?

There are many "chomping at the bit" for various speaker designs / kits with the new non-fiberglass SEOS 15s. I believe there was a design put out with the 15 waveguide (the fiberglass one) in the past. I'd have to go search the forum ...

EDIT: here is what I was referring too ... hopefully that helps
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=182.0
post #8951 of 9844
The SEOS 15 paired with a JBL 2226H (cheap 2nd hand on EBay) is a killer box.

This project is similar but with a SEOS 12 ... http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=141.0

To my ears the SEOS 15 is slightly improved (altho very similar) in this project to the SEOS 12.
______________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff
post #8952 of 9844
Great, I will have a read on those.

In the mean time, what about the Denovo BA-750?

I need to look for 1" drivers, for the SEOS-15, yes? Hence, the larger BMS coaxial drivers will not fit (1.4"/1.5" or 2"), correct?

What's the opinion on using two 15" woofers in MTM layout? I would like very good output down to 40 Hz so I can x-over to the subs somewhere between 45 and 80 Hz, certainly not higher. 180-200 liters is no problem.
post #8953 of 9844
yes the SEOS 15 needs a 1" comp driver
post #8954 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

yes the SEOS 15 needs a 1" comp driver

Thanks.

Other than the BA-750 I see the BMS 4550 is mentioned here and there. It seems to have great specs. Recommended x-over 800 Hz, 132 dB SPL... Any better than these two out there? I am in EU which makes purchasing EU material more interesting regarding shipping, duties and VAT.
post #8955 of 9844
There is a new Sentinel in the works so that the Fusion-15 uses a 15" waveguide.

I did get more of the BA-750's, but I don't know of any passive designs using them yet. There's also the FL-450, but I'm not sure what I'm going to do with that beauty yet.
Edited by Erich H - 1/14/14 at 3:39pm
post #8956 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

Great, I will have a read on those.

In the mean time, what about the Denovo BA-750?

I need to look for 1" drivers, for the SEOS-15, yes? Hence, the larger BMS coaxial drivers will not fit (1.4"/1.5" or 2"), correct?

What's the opinion on using two 15" woofers in MTM layout? I would like very good output down to 40 Hz so I can x-over to the subs somewhere between 45 and 80 Hz, certainly not higher. 180-200 liters is no problem.


erwin,

I highly recommend the larger BMS CD's. I don't know what SEOS you will need, 18 or 24 I assume? I'm way out of my depth here since I'm not a true DIY guy and I haven't been following all the new info on the wave guides but I do know that the 4594 would be so worth it IF you are a music guy. Movies maybe not as much, but IMO the larger BMS CD's are something special for music.
post #8957 of 9844
Thread Starter 
"They sure do look enticing. However, I can't differentiate between all of the offerings."

neither can anybody else. :-)~


as for corner placement, the closer to the corner the higher the frequency of the reflection, the easier it is to absorb that reflection.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm
post #8958 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"They sure do look enticing. However, I can't differentiate between all of the offerings."

neither can anybody else. :-)~


this seriously made me LOL, the item numbers are different, thats really all we know
post #8959 of 9844

Hey guys!

 

New member here, although I've been a member over at the PE Tech Talk forum for quite a while.

 

I'm pretty excited...after a a fair bit of hesitation and anxiety, I'm jumping on the S/EOS wagon for my first build.

 

I ordered a pair of the Fusion 8 Alchemys, and I'm pretty excited!

 

I think these will be a great starting point for getting into the DIY game.

 

This post by Jeff over at the PE forum really cemented the decision on this cabinet for me:

 

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240564-Fusion-Alchemy-vs-Alpha-Minions&p=1956304#post1956304 

 

:cool:

post #8960 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeTL View Post

Hey guys!

 

New member here, although I've been a member over at the PE Tech Talk forum for quite a while.

 

I'm pretty excited...after a a fair bit of hesitation and anxiety, I'm jumping on the S/EOS wagon for my first build.

 

I ordered a pair of the Fusion 8 Alchemys, and I'm pretty excited!

 

I think these will be a great starting point for getting into the DIY game.

 

This post by Jeff over at the PE forum really cemented the decision on this cabinet for me:

 

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?240564-Fusion-Alchemy-vs-Alpha-Minions&p=1956304#post1956304 

 

:cool:


Well I have the minions and Friday my alchemy mtm center will be done. I will do a comparison . Looking forward to seeing the new designs .cool.gif
post #8961 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

this seriously made me LOL, the item numbers are different, thats really all we know

If anyone has ideas on how to break them up any better, let me know. I thought the Karma, Fusion, Alpha break down would make things pretty simple just like Polk, Infinity, or all those other companies do with their 'series'. Parts get more expensive as you move up a series.
post #8962 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If anyone has ideas on how to break them up any better, let me know. I thought the Karma, Fusion, Alpha break down would make things pretty simple just like Polk, Infinity, or all those other companies do with their 'series'. Parts get more expensive as you move up a series.

I actually really like the naming scheme but... the only other way I can think of is by size, or sensitivity.

And by size I mean size of the drivers.

All the 15" woofer designs together.
All 12" woofer designs together
All the 10"

etc...

Then maybe mix it up when you get to the bookshelf designs, like cost, or ability to play reference levels, or bass response. Something along those lines..

That way one can directly compare all of the same size designs against each-other and kind of see where the cost of parts comes into play.
I say this because most people decide what size they can accommodate in their space, then choose a design around that.
post #8963 of 9844
^^^ the only change I would make is being able to select 3-6 speakers and have them compare specs like you can with car websites. I don't know how difficult it is to do that.
post #8964 of 9844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

If anyone has ideas on how to break them up any better, let me know. I thought the Karma, Fusion, Alpha break down would make things pretty simple just like Polk, Infinity, or all those other companies do with their 'series'. Parts get more expensive as you move up a series.

LOL! One of my pet peeves when I first started exploring the SEOS designs! I could NOT make heads nor tails of the names. I have to admit, as I've become more of a regular denizen here, I've come to realize that the DIY'ers really like to "name" their creations, and frankly I find that kind of cool. It's part of the charm of the DIY community. smile.gif

That being said...

I like the "Alpha" series. Alpha male, top dog, good name. It means "top of the line." I do think it would help you if you didn't have too many models. Do it like Sam's Club, there isn't always a lot of choices, but the choices they have, is more than likely, the one you want! smile.gif

I've even come to like the Fusion name, and I've come to think of it as the middle of the line, price wise, but it is much easier to understand if there are just two tiers. The middle is traditionally where most people like to shop, to get the "best bang for the buck", whatever that means.

And then there is the "Other" projects, which are also very cool, like the ultra inexpensive Cheap Thrills, or any other "one off" design. There is a place for those models.

The problem you have with DIY guys like myself (newbies to DIY), is I think if an $80 woofer is good, then a $100 one is better, and then I THINK I can mix and match to find something "better." I'm sure it drives the XO designers like Tux and Bwalso CRAZY when guys like me try to screw with their designs! Instead, give me a family of speakers, and assure me that I am NOT smarter than the guys designing these things. I can live with that, AFTER I understand the concept.

I suggest: Offer AS A STARTING POINT, one, complete, BASIC 5.0 speaker family oriented towards a price point, like $1,000. It would be designed to be driven with a $500 AVR with 100 watts of power. This would consist of completed AIY Assemble It Yourself KITS with flat packs, consisting of a Right and Left for $250 each, a center MTM for $300, and $100 each for surrounds. That's a thousand bucks, no sub, for a 5.0 setup. Then customers could choose their own changes from there, either up OR down in terms of price, components and speaker boxes. It is MUCH easier to make changes, then it is for every newbie DIY'er to re-invent the wheel, having to do endless hours of research in AVS threads. (Note: Those $$$ numbers are made up, I have no idea what price points certain speakers "should" be.)
+++

In terms of naming conventions, one thing I would change would be to designate the speaker in terms of the size of the SEOS driver. Remember, SEOS is what makes this product unique. For instance, I have a Fusion 10, but it uses the 12" SEOS. If you wanted to make it even more clear, then name both the SEOS and the woofer in the name; Fusion 12/10, or a Fusion 12/12, or a Fusion 12/15. This is MUCH easier to understand than Pures, Tempests, Minions, etc.

I'll stop here. cool.gif
Edited by wvu80 - 1/14/14 at 11:39pm
post #8965 of 9844
Thread Starter 
some things that would seem usefule would be many of the same things that distinguish the woofers...

recommended cab design/tuning, sensitivity, -3db point. max linear spl (i.e. how much spl at xmax*), approx. power to hit max linear spl, approx. power to hit max linear spl (movie mode--80hz crossover engaged), voicing/eq (flat, extra mid-bass, extra extension, etc.), special features (shorting rings for reduced distortion, copper sleeve for reduced distortion, etc.), size.

* i think eminence just specs overhang, so perhaps 25-33% of the gap could be added.

i just made up some of these numbers, so don't go by this chart even though most of the numbers are probably pretty close.



most of this information is already captured, its just not presented in a "comparison table". additionally, adding some sort of "scoring system" will really help get folks into the right ballpark.

fwiw.
post #8966 of 9844
^^^ Applause, applause. Nice job.
post #8967 of 9844
This is exactly what I was talking about
ary9ezup.jpg
Ltd02 for governor ... he always delivers eek.gif
post #8968 of 9844
I do have most of that data on the speaker page and there is a 'Compare' button on each page so you can select which speakers to compare. wink.gif

I like the special features and voicing addition to the list. I was hoping that would be talked about in the 'Description' area on each page once the designer had time to write something up.
post #8969 of 9844
If I were running it as a business (and I know this is not the spirit of the effort) I'd try to be consistent with availability of the offering and I'd try to make it a limited offering that makes sense. I certainly don't know what all goes into this endeavor but it seems like Erich is trying to herd cats by trying to manage all the different sizes in the older, current and future designs.

From a rank beginner... simple is better for most of us. I'd limit the designs to the most successful and bang for the buck in the 3 sizes; 8" with 8" SEOS, a redesigned 10" with 10" SEOS and 12" with 12" SEOS. (the 15 seems too large for wide spread acceptance in most HT's but if demand is there great). Include an option for the MTM center..

Take your 3 best selling designs and offer them as complete AIY kits with assembled XO's and flatpacks available. That's your bread and butter and will serve probably the vast majority of the guys out there. Two levels?...maybe, but not more than two designs in each given size format. Not even sure you need two levels but I know the idea is to give the DIY community options. Keep it simple...did I say that already?

Let anything outside of those primary offerings be true DIY...parts only, maybe with baffles. Let those who want to step outside the 3 main AIY kits to do all the heavy lifting, XO assembly, etc. . This could include a 15", and some higher end models (not sure anything cheaper than the Tempest line is necessary). Maybe even just publish designs with just a parts list and parts resources (places that have those parts available...arranging a discount through the DIYSOUNDGROUP buying power). Those interested could collect everything themselves (since this is essentially a not for profit). If possible, maybe some of the items in the kits can be dropped shipped from the supplier...using the DIYSOUNDGROUP website as the ordering portal.

IMO this would limit the burden of trying to keep too many items in stock, making things simpler to manage. (Again...I'm really unaware of the mechanics of it all.) Just thoughts.

Take all this with a grain of salt because its an outsiders view.
post #8970 of 9844
Some of that is what I'm working on now. I mentioned before that some changes are coming that will basically streamline the whole process.

If my discount on the parts doesn't help cover shipping on the whole kit to break even, then it would be easier for people to just order parts from PE, and then the baffle and SEOS from the site.
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