Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 516

Thanks I thought so...but somebody posted different experiences.
He got it right after his 4th purchase.


The External HDD's have their own PSU and the Hub is PSU-less...so I reckon this will do the trick...

USB hubs are a mixed bag and not all of them work well. This has little to do with the player, it's just that some of them are junk (or old and not fully USB-2 capable).

In the market for a 3D player to pair with my newest baby, the 70" elite. On the fence between the 93 and 95.

I rely on analog outs, as my older Rotel receiver does not support HDMI. I run a 5.1 system of B&W bookshelves off the Rotel. I want clean/clear sound, but am not overly concerned with cranking up the volume. I do not use this system for anything other than movies (no two channel, etc.).

Given the dedicated use for this system, curious if their will be a noticeable or significant difference in analog performance between the 93 and 95. I can justify the extra $500 if so.

Any thoughts/comments?

TIA

Probably not as much for movies. The improved DACs best show their strengths with high resolution audio and the best CDs; not as much difference with movie sound.

I am getting closer to the source of my lip sync issues.

It seems that when I have the subtitle track enabled on BDP-93 the a/v sync starts drifting. If I watch a movie without the subtitles, then it is fine.

I have tested on two other players (Samsung/Philips) and none of them have the same issue.

Extremely weird and I will keep testing to see if this can be solved somehow. If you have any ideas, please share them.

/ j

Sounds like a finding you ought to report to Oppo.

Yes, I have e-mailed support.

Will post here when I know more.

/ J

I'm curious to know if this is related specifically to the NuForce modded versions?


Max

The nuforce mod should only affect the analogue output and I am using HDMI.

But most people here seem to be very happy with the lipsync on their units, so maybe it is only the nuforce edition that has this bug. Or most people here do not watch movies with subtitles.

/ j

Thanks for the response and probably leaning 93. That said, would you say that there isn't a noticeable difference even on loss-less movie tracks?

I'm sure there is a difference but movie soundtracks are so heavily processed and manipulated to begin with that any improvements in sound may be moot which is why I don't think the extra $500 is worth it if all you are going to use it for is movies. Others may weigh in with other opinions.

Depends on the type of movies you watch I suppose. Probably not an appreciable difference with something like Transformers, but it might be an appreciable difference in something like 'Across The Universe' or 'Phantom Of The Opera'.


Max

I test with subtitles on all the time, and have not had any problem with sync on the 93 playing titles made for the US market or for Europe. There could still be a bug here of course, but we'd need to nail down why it affects your use and not mine. That is, there must be something different about your setup or the content you are playing.

For example, I just went through the final Harry Potter last night three times, with subtitles on all three times. No lip sync problems. I tested both Bitstream and LPCM output. One pass was their Maximum Movie mode which has its own subtitle track.
--Bob

I agree with this. It took me 3 usb hubs to find one that worked with my WD MyBook drives, but I was going for cheap. All of them were purchased for less than $10, and in hindsight, I'd probably spend a little more the first time for a better quality "name" brand.

I watch subtitled flicks all the time, too, and I've never had a problem with lip sync either.

It's possible he's just been unfortunate in his choice of titles, and turning on subtitles does complicate the player's job, so I won't dismiss a bug here out of hand. But it isn't a widespread problem with subtitles. That means digging into the details.
--Bob

+1

I just purchased the 93 2 weeks ago. I too am using the 7.1 analog outs.
After 1 week, I called Oppo and asked them if I could return the 93 for a 95. They said "sure, but may I ask why"?
I told them I use the analog outs and wanted to get the better DAC's in the 95.
He asked me "What do u use the player for"?
Answer: Mostly movies and some FLAC playback and Pandora radio.
He said unless I used it mostly for music play back of ultra highend audio files and DVD-A, SACD, then u wont notice much difference.

I thanked him for saving me $500

The 93's analog outs are so rich and warm, I promise you will be very happy with the 93. The 95 may sound better, I will never know, but the 93 rocks.

So, I got some advice from Oppo customer service but so far none helped. I connected the AVR to HDMI 2 and the projector to HDMI 1. This actually improved the overall lipsync but did not fix the drifting over chapters.

The oppo customer service confirmed that the player will re-sync audio and video on manual chapter jumping or pause/play. However, no re-syncing is done during normal playback. I guess with the subtitles on, some extra delay in processing is pushing the audio and video out of sync.

Example:

I play the latest Harry Potter movie (Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2). If I choose subtitles and start the movie and then let it run until 00:35:31 without jumping chapters or pausing the playback (very important, since these actions would resync the a/v). When Snape is talking to the students it is very easy to see that the audio and video is out of sync. Jumping back to the beginning of the chapter and now the a/v is in perfect sync again.

Extremely annoying.

I actually carried my player to my parents to try it with their Samsung TV and the issue was the same here! So it is obviously not in my AVR/projector.

To be continued.

/ j

I have been watching a lot of DVDs lately of a UK TV series New Tricks with the SDH subtitles added by Acorn Media ON. Most have been rental discs from Blockbuster.

I'm up to Season 5 so I must have watched maybe 15 DVDs so far.

My stock 93 is connected by HDMI to my AVR for Dolby Digital 7.1 surround sound and video passed through to my HD display. Lots of audio processing going on. The subtitles are spot on with no fiddling.

Dana

I'll recheck continuous playback through to that time code (with subtitles on) in a little while.

Meanwhile, go to Setup > Device Setup > Firmware Information and make sure all three parts of your firmware are up to date: Main, Loader, and Sub/MCU. I.e., go to the Oppo support page and compare the version numbers they show with the ones you have.

Are you using 1080p/24 output? Which HDMI output are you using for video? Do you have that set as your Video Setup > Primary Output? Are you using HDMI audio output -- and is it LPCM or Bitstream? What is your video output resolution -- in particular, is it an explicit value instead of Auto or Source Direct? What is your setting for Video Output > TV System?
--Bob

It will be very interesting to hear your results, Bob! Thank you for checking that particular scene.

I seem to have the latest firmware according to the BDP-93 support site.

I have currently HDMI1 connected to my projector and HDMI2 connected to my Rotel RSP-1570. Primary output is set to HDMI1. HDMI audio is set to Bitstream. Video output res is "Source direct" with 1080p24 set to "On".

Again, thanks for all help. I really want to get this solved.

/ j

If you feel up to testing it again, try again with resolution set to 1080p explicitly, instead of Source Direct.

I'll have results from my test in about 15 minutes.

Also, what is your TV System setting? NTSC, PAL, or Multi?

ETA: One more thing -- very important -- what's the direction of the error you are seeing? Video ahead of audio or video behind audio?
--Bob

Ok - I will run it again at 1080p fixed and report back.

The TV System is set to PAL.

Audio ahead of video, probably ~50ms. If I skip chapter then the audio and video is perfectly synced, 0ms.

/ j

Many TVs these days can accept either PAL or NTSC. If yours is like that, another thing to try would be to set the player to NTSC and see if that keeps the problem from developing while subtitles are active.

Most folks posting here are likely running NTSC, as I am. But I can force my setup to accept PAL and will try that next.
--Bob

OK, A/V sync was perfect both before and through 35:31 (the closeup of Snape speaking) having played continuously, from the beginning, with English subtitles on, explicit 1080p, 1080p/24 Auto, and TV System Multi (which means NTSC for this US release disc). I used HDMI 1 for both video and Bitstream audio.

I'll try it again now forcing PAL in the player.

One other possibility, presuming you bought your disc in Europe, is that there is an authoring error in the European retail disc.
--Bob

A/V Sync was perfect through that time code with PAL set as well. So the PAL choice alone is not the cause.

I'll try once more using your original settings of Source Direct and Pal. Stay tuned!
--Bob

Continuing on with the above Harry Potter test, no problem with A/V Sync using the combo of Source Direct and PAL either -- once again, playing through to that time code with subtitles ON.

At this point, I'm inclined to think the error is in the authoring of the European version of that final Harry Potter Blu-ray.

Your finding that use of subtitles is necessary to get the error is crucial, as otherwise it would make sense to explore what your display might be doing to add video delay itself (e.g., turn 1080p/24 OFF for output from the Oppo while directly connected to the display).

So if you have any doubt about the connection to use of subtitles, please do test that again to be sure.

This disc is a BD-Java disc, which means playback is mediated by a Java program loaded from the disc as it starts up. So there are lots of exciting new ways the studios can screw up the disc authoring, and their crack, disc authoring yahoos are busily exploring each and every one of them.

---------------------------------------

One other point, if you really are seeing a 50ms error (too little audio delay in your case) then your faculties are above average. At 24 or 25 frames per second, one frame time is around 40ms. Most people "don't see" sync errors less than about 70ms in real content (as opposed to test charts).

Also a drift error is pretty unusual to be this small. That's because drift errors tend to be in whole frames, and to have just a couple frames duplicated (40-80ms video too late) over 35 minutes is kind of hard to explain.

One possibility is that the error is bigger than you think it is of course. But I'm leaning towards the other possibility that this is just a disc authoring error -- as once you consider that possibility, just about anything can happen.
--Bob

The PAL/NTSC setting does not affect movie playback of Blu-Ray disc. US & EU have the same encoding on BD and there is no PAL or NTSC information in a 1080p24 playback via HDMI. Color information is transfered using YUV or RGB coding in the digital stream.

I assume the lipsynch issue is cause by the combination with the Rotel Preamp.

I once switched off "Auto Lipsynch" in my Marantz Preamp and the lipsynch was very bad.

Correct, it does not affect the output (except for 1080i or 480i content on the disc -- which goes to /50 instead of /60), but it DOES affect the processing path through the player. That's what I was testing -- to see if there was a bug in there that was sensitive to that setting for no good reason. I'm exploring setting differences between his setup and mine.

Typically a sync error caused by the AVR would not drift (get worse as time goes on unless you resync by Chapter skip or whatever). And there would be no way for the AVR to know whether or not the video stream contained pixels representing subtitles. So if the subtitles setting really is a factor in what he's seeing then that limits the problem to the player or the disc authoring.

Make sense?
--Bob

Thank you Bob for testing.

I am glad that you are not seeing the a/v sync errors. Maybe this can be solved for me too.

I am starting to think that the problem must be with the Nuforce modification of the player. I mean, how could it be related to the AV-processor or the projector since replaying a chapter solves the issue? The projector/AVP will not know that I have jumped a chapter or paused the movie, right? Or is the bitstream reset on pause/chapter change?

This lipsync drifting issue is affecting the analogue outs too in exactly the same way.

I have the US version of Harry Potter too (on ISO - not disc) and it has the same issue.

Mystery, but I will play with the NTSC/PAL/Multi settings and resolutions to see if anything solves it.

/ j