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Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 701

post #21001 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

Irregardless, thanks htwaits for "toeing the line" while Bob and some of the other heavy hitters are on ummm... vacation?

Thanks for the kind words. I'm most comfortable when I just quote Bob.
post #21002 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

I haven't tried removing the original cable between the AVR and TV while using the 93 connected separately to the TV. It could yield good results, who knows, but making this change would take my other two HDMI devices out of the loop.

Although not really convenient, it sounds like your best solution is to connect Oppo HDMI 1 to the TV and disconnect the HDMI cable between the AVR and TV (using a switch or manually) only when you want to use the Oppo.

I don't expect you use more than one source device at any one time.

Note that this should be done when all devices are powered off as pulling an HDMI plug on live devices can blow the HDMI circuitry (HDMI and HDCP are terrible designs).

It is possible to obtain HDMI n->1 switches, so you could feed Oppo HDMI 1 and AVR HDMI into the switch and output HDMI to the TV: means you either operate Oppo or AVR to the TV, but not both at the same time.

Considering the level of inconvenience for the public, HDMI and HDCP were very poorly thought out concepts, especially since HDCP doesn't stop the copying the studios feared. I wonder how long the consumer will put up with this nonsense before revolting.
post #21003 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Another BDP-93 & RX-A2000 user here. HDMI cable from the Oppo or Monoprice, don't remember which, connected to JVC RS40 and no handshake problems.

BDP-93, RX-A3000 and Mits HC4000 projector. Oppo cable from Oppo to Yamaha, and Monoprice 25' high speed from Yamaha to Mits.

Have not noticed handshake issues (or at least nothing that has shut the whole thing down). There is some initial jumping in and out of signal, but it goes away quickly.
post #21004 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgibson View Post

I have the following setup:
Oppo 93 HDMI 1 set as Primary with Video only output
Oppo 93 HDMI 1 to 50" 720p plasma HDMI Input 1
Oppo 93 HDMI 2 to Onkyo TX-SR760 DVD Input
Onkyo TX-SR706 HDMI Output into Monoprice 1x2 splitter
Monoprice splitter Output 1 to 720p HDMI Input 2
Monoprice splitter Output 2 to Optoma HD20 1080p projector HDMI Input
Directv HR24 plays thru Onkyo>MonoSplitter>720p HDMI Input 2.

For simplicity, you could connect the Oppo direct to the Onkyo, unless you need 3D and the Onkyo doesn't support it, and see how it goes: not all equipment configurations cause problems with handshaking.

Getting HDMI equipment to interoperate correctly is more of a black art than science and it is mainly a try-it-and-see approach.

I'm not sure if the splitter will cause issues: HDMI polls the characteristics of the destination device to establish suitable AV settings and having 2 different end devices could introduce confusion.

Best thing to do is just try it and see if any problems.
post #21005 of 26590
Thanks for your input. More positive reports like this, the more I am leaning toward a new receiver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Another BDP-93 & RX-A2000 user here. HDMI cable from the Oppo or Monoprice, don't remember which, connected to JVC RS40 and no handshake problems.
post #21006 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Thanks for your input. More positive reports like this, the more I am leaning toward a new receiver.

Nothing but perfect results with my Elite AVR. In fact I believe they use the same chip as the 93.
post #21007 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

This is another strong dislike I have. The suggestion that one HDMI goes to the AVR and a seperate HDMI to the TV. Why? Nobody elses equipment has this requirement. Not to mention I don't want to 'have' to do that. What ever happened to HDMI being "one cable for both audio and video" but it takes 2 for a top of the line player?! What's wrong with this picture???

To answer your question, you only need to run video with one HDMI and video with the other if you are having issues. There is zero sonic or visual difference when splitting A/V.

Yeah I figured. I was just curious why people would split out...unless their AVR is not a current one. Anyway that's how I currently have it...(or had it as at the moment the Marantz is in the shop for a repair).
post #21008 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

There is no difference unless you happen to have a receiver that either doesn't have HDMI inputs or has early HDMI inputs that have a problem with the latest handshake requirements that seem to change over time.

If your AVR can do HDMI bitstream then OPPO > AVR > Display using HDMI is the best. That allows you to do room calibration in your AVR if it has that capability.

Using both HDMI outputs is mainly for those who want to do 3D but have an AVR without 3D capability. I don't know your AVR, but there are others who can be more specific if you need that.

Thanks htwaits. I have the Marantz SR7005 (which is 3D capable). And my TV is a plasma Panasonic P55VT30 (also 3D capable). So I'm all good. And I have tested it out by watching one of the IMAX DVDs (Hubble Telescope). Looks great.
post #21009 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaramill View Post

Thanks htwaits. Looks great.

Enjoy.
post #21010 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaramill View Post


Yeah I figured. I was just curious why people would split out...unless their AVR is not a current one. Anyway that's how I currently have it...(or had it as at the moment the Marantz is in the shop for a repair).

I was an early adopter of the oppo 93,and when I first got it I had it set up,HDMI 1 from oppo to Yamaha rxv 665 receiver,665 receiver to Samsung la40b650 and that worked perfectly.
It was only after oppo released a new firmware which was supposed to make handshaking faster that I started having handshaking issues(multi colored speckles,took ages to load disc etc),so i had to change my set up to,HDMI 1 video only to tv and HDMI 2 to receiver for audio to get it watchable again.
Adrian
post #21011 of 26590
Out of curiosity, can you name the firmware version that changed the handshaking?


Quote:
Originally Posted by alf56-2009 View Post

I was an early adopter of the oppo 93,and when I first got it I had it set up,HDMI 1 from oppo to Yamaha rxv 665 receiver,665 receiver to Samsung la40b650 and that worked perfectly.
It was only after oppo released a new firmware which was supposed to make handshaking faster that I started having handshaking issues(multi colored speckles,took ages to load disc etc),so i had to change my set up to,HDMI 1 video only to tv and HDMI 2 to receiver for audio to get it watchable again.
Adrian
post #21012 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post

Out of curiosity, can you name the firmware version that changed the handshaking?

After flicking through the firmware list,I think it was beta 50-0608 ,which was supposed to improve compatibility with some AV receivers,but this seems to of ruined compatibility with my Yamaha rxv665,but it probably helped a lot of people who were having issues with other brands of expensive top end receivers.
Adrian
post #21013 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post

I played some hi rez files from a USB stick through the front USB input of the Opp 93. I have the unit attached to the Panasonic 65VT30 via the HDMI 1 output and the 5.1 analog outputs to my Marantz AV 9000 preamp/processor (which does not have HDMI inputs). I have been experiencing audio dropouts during the songs. I have the monitor on so I could see what is playing as well as needing it on to scroll to the correct buttons to play the music randomly.
Dp you think it's from the HDMI trying to hanshake with the monitor?
Any way aorund this without having to unplug the HDMI or just have the monitor turned off?

I sent the USB stick to Oppo and they have confirmed the audio dropouts happening while playing the hi rez Flac or Wav files from the USB stick. They are working on trying to fix the problem. What customer service! Just great!
post #21014 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudley07726 View Post

I sent the USB stick to Oppo and they have confirmed the audio dropouts happening while playing the hi rez Flac or Wav files from the USB stick. They are working on trying to fix the problem. What customer service! Just great!

Interesting! And unexpected, as we've had lots of folks posting here and in the 95 thread using FLAC files without problem.

Remind me: What was the source of these FLAC files? If you created them yourself, what was the original content source, and what tool did you use to generate the FLAC from it?

One possibility of course, is that OPPO will come back with the result that the problem is in the function of that particular USB stick. Or that the FLAC files are corrupted somehow, perhaps in the original creation, perhaps in a transfer from the original file to the files you used for playback.
--Bob
post #21015 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf56-2009 View Post

After flicking through the firmware list,I think it was beta 50-0608 ,which was supposed to improve compatibility with some AV receivers,but this seems to of ruined compatibility with my Yamaha rxv665,but it probably helped a lot of people who were having issues with other brands of expensive top end receivers.
Adrian

Despite the industry's fanatical devotion to it, HDMI is far from "commodity technology" yet. Individual implementations still get screwed up.

HDMI.ORG has been frantically trying to tighten up the certification specs to prevent such issues -- which has proved a real money maker for the 3rd party labs that do the testing. Spec by spec it becomes harder to pass the tests and still not work with other peoples' hardware. The current specs are about the size, weight, and readability of the Manhattan telephone directory.

But there are two problems: First, the tests really can't nail down everything. The function of HDMI is finicky, particularly when you lard HDCP copy protection on top of it (something HDMI.ORG is quick to point out is NOT part of the base HDMI spec, but rather something the industry insists on imposing ON TOP OF the HDMI spec). Second, there's still lots of older HDMI hardware out there.

And some of that older hardware has problems the new specs try to prevent, as well as problems even the new specs don't address yet. Compatibility with both new and old hardware is an, umm, interesting challenge.

For example, the chips that implement HDMI are not all made by the same company. In the HDMI V1.3 era there were confirmed cases where devices made with chips from one company worked reliably only when connected to hardware using chips from that same company. It would not at all surprise me to learn some of that is still going on in the HDMI V1.4 era.

So who makes your HDMI chips? Do you know? Of course not.

Then, not all HDMI chips of a given spec level implement the same functionality. There are "optional" aspects to the HDMI spec. LOTS AND LOTS of "optional" aspects. And indeed even at the very lowest hardware level there are implementation differences. A classic example was that the first round of HDMI V1.3 chips did not include "dynamic signal equalization" -- which was one of the signal robustness features touted for HDMI V1.3. Of course there's no way any normal customer could find out which flavor of HDMI V1.3 chip might be used in a device touting HDMI V1.3 compatibility.

Really the history of HDMI has been more Microsoft-like. I.e., add features first, then figure out how to get them to work.

And that's just at the chip level. HDMI is quite a bit more complicated than that, particularly now that you have devices with multiple inputs and outputs. Signal fan-out is a good example -- i.e., a signal sent to multiple outputs. The spec contemplates fan-out. It is an approved complexity. But that doesn't mean all the rough edges have been filed off it. Such as what if the device wants to send different signal characteristics to each output -- from a single, copy protected piece of content. How is copy protection supposed to be satisfied when the things at the other end of the two cables respond differently?

And what of signal rejoining? I.e. what if two output paths eventually find their way back to the same device? HDMI 1 from the OPPO to a display, then HDMI 2 to an AVR which ALSO connects to that same display. What is the job of the display and the AVR in such a setup to keep the initial handshake and the copy protection both happy?

And this stuff gets implemented above the level of the chips.

Now the HDMI protocol has built in delays intended to give each device a chance to get its act together when something changes. That's why the minimum time for an HDMI handshake is 2 seconds even with the best devices. They HAVE TO delay things to meet the certification specs.

But what if some device isn't quite fast enough? Then you get a "handshake retry". And what if that only happens in certain cabling and usage configurations? Then you get pissed off customers who complain that HDMI works just fine in usage combo A, but keeps doing retries in usage combo B.

On top of which most users don't know (or care) about the underlying implementation. So they don't understand that a perfectly functioning connection has to be electronically torn down and re-established from scratch when things change. I.e., when you go from the disc menus to the movie content and the stuff coming off the disc changes between 1080i/60 and 1080p/24. Or between DD 2.0 audio and TrueHD 5.1 audio.

Nor do they understand why the industry insisted that the HDCP copy protection algorithm be finicky by design. As I've said more than once, "It LIKES to fail!"

-----------------------------------------------

All that said, far and away the biggest problem with HDMI robustness is cable function. Because the bandwidth on the cable is pretty high, and the chips at each end that are supposed to make it work are pretty cheap, the signals operate on the edge of not working -- even when everything is good.

For example the simple act of fanning out the twisted pair copper wires inside the cable to the wider shape of the HDMI plug has negative impact on the signal. This is why adapters or wall plates or daisy chained cables cause such grief. More fan-outs mean more problems.

And the plugs are just friction fit in the sockets. Even a slight shift of the plug in the socket -- for example, due to the weight or bending of the cable -- is often all it takes to make the signal marginal. This is most common when folks are using new cables or setting up new equipment because the cable still has packaging bends in it which combine with the weight of the cable to tug on the plugs.

Which is why you will see old hands nod knowingly when a report comes in, "It worked just fine with my OLD gear and cables!" (Said with extra frustration of course when that older gear and cabling was also cheaper gear and cabling.)

It also often surprises people to learn that you can even have problems if an HDMI cable is "too short"! This is because those cheap chips I mentioned are designed to assume a certain degree of signal degradation and "correct" for it. But if the cable is too short, that amount of degradation hasn't happened yet and so the correction goes too far.

And the newer HDMI specs put higher and higher bandwidth signals on the cable. A cable that works perfectly well for 1080i/60 from your Comcast HD/DVR may not work well at all for 1080p/60 plus 36-bit Deep Color plus DTS-HD MA 7.1 plus HDMI CEC from a shiny disc player. And that doesn't even touch on 3D. Or the exciting new world of "4K" video. These days it is really a gamble to place an HDMI cable inside a wall. Odds are you'll be replacing it.

Anyway, it is as true today as it was back when HDMI 1.0 first came out -- in fact it is even more true -- if you are having HDMI problems, THE VERY FIRST THING you should consider is whether there are cabling issues. Even replacing a cable with THE EXACT SAME MAKE, MODEL, AND LENGTH of cable might do the trick simply because of manufacturing tolerances in the length of the cable and variations in the mechanical fit of plugs in sockets!

--------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that in the brave new world of HDMI the customer has to have patience and a willingness to seek out workarounds.

And remember, the more complexity you add into your configuration, the more likely you may tickle up a problem.

All the manufacturers are frustrated by this too of course. The amount of time spent trying to help customers diagnose and resolve HDMI problems is just staggering. And ask anyone in the Custom Installation community what they think of HDMI and be prepared to have your ears blasted off.

HDMI isn't going away. The content production industry just loves it, some HDMI!

So it *IS* worth it to to spend the time trying various things to get HDMI working "right".

"Right" here means that each HDMI handshake takes the minimum -- about 2 seconds -- and that HDMI handshakes never happen when they are not supposed to happen -- i.e., during the middle of content playback due to bogus failure of the periodic, background, copy protection re-checks.

Unfortunately, that means users need to learn more about what's going on inside the HDMI black box then any rational person would want to know. Things like why turning on Deep Color can make HDMI less robust. Or that connecting to a modern AVR is much MUCH more complicated to get right than connecting to a TV. If those sentences surprised you, then count yourself among the large group of HDMI users who, quite rightly of course, believe "it should all just work", but who don't really understand HOW it works.
--Bob
post #21016 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Despite the industry's fanatical devotion to it, HDMI is far from "commodity technology" yet. Individual implementations still get screwed up.


Unfortunately, that means users need to learn more about what's going on inside the HDMI black box then any rational person would want to know. Things like why turning on Deep Color can make HDMI less robust. Or that connecting to a modern AVR is much MUCH more complicated to get right than connecting to a TV. If those sentences surprised you, then count yourself among the large group of HDMI users who, quite rightly of course, believe "it should all just work", but who don't really understand HOW it works.
--Bob

Bob, thanks for the useful post. The final lines brought to mind one of the great song lyrics from "Man of La Mancha"

"to dream the impossible dream, to fight the unbeatable foe..."

:-)

Mike
post #21017 of 26590
Imagine there's no handshake.

It's easy if you try.

No HDCP either.

No damn HDMI!

Imagine all the people,

Enjoying their TV!


You may say that I'm a dreamer,

But I'm not the only one.

I hope some day that you will join us!

And the world can be as one!


--Bob
post #21018 of 26590
^ A joke of course -- please, don't take offense anyone.

The bottom line is that when HDMI works right, the picture and sound quality are fantastic. I just wish it didn't come with the built in nuisance factor.
--Bob
post #21019 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Interesting! And unexpected, as we've had lots of folks posting here and in the 95 thread using FLAC files without problem.

Remind me: What was the source of these FLAC files? If you created them yourself, what was the original content source, and what tool did you use to generate the FLAC from it?

One possibility of course, is that OPPO will come back with the result that the problem is in the function of that particular USB stick. Or that the FLAC files are corrupted somehow, perhaps in the original creation, perhaps in a transfer from the original file to the files you used for playback.
--Bob

These were 24/96 WAV & Flac hi rez files downloaded from HD Tracks, McCartney's website, as well as George Harrison's Website as is. I did not create them myself.
I am using a Kingston Digital DataTraveler 101 Generation 2 - 32 GB Flash Drive.

> The dropouts occur even when the HDMI is unplugged from the
> monitor. They are random. They can happen at one point during a
> song and when I play the song again, it does not happen in that
> same spot.
> I adjusted the channel trims (as suggested an Oppo rep)
> to zero or below zero and the dropouts still occur.

Oppo said that they backed up the files to diagnose what the error could be. I am assuming that they experienced the same dropouts from their backup file. I don't know. I asked them but they have not responded yet.
In the past, I had created DVD-A discs of these files using a program called DVD Audio Solo and the discs did not experience any dropouts. I figured that it would be easier to have all these hi rez files on one flash drive rather than individual discs and just play them on random if need be.
post #21020 of 26590
^ I seem to recall there was a report here (actually in the 95 thread) that a certain, small number of files from HD Tracks were incorrectly formatted, and that HD Tracks had confirmed the problem and were working to replace those tracks. I don't recall if there was ever a resolution of that -- i.e., the tracks were confirmed to have been fixed.

Perhaps one of our user media mavens here will have a more complete recollection about this.
--Bob
post #21021 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ I seem to recall there was a report here (actually in the 95 thread) that a certain, small number of files from HD Tracks were incorrectly formatted, and that HD Tracks had confirmed the problem and were working to replace those tracks. I don't recall if there was ever a resolution of that -- i.e., the tracks were confirmed to have been fixed.

Perhaps one of our user media mavens here will have a more complete recollection about this.
--Bob

Problem is that the dropouts occured from tracks downloaded from all 3 sites that I mentioned; not just HD Tracks
post #21022 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Despite the industry's fanatical devotion to it, HDMI is far from "commodity technology" yet. Individual implementations still get screwed up.

HDMI.ORG has been frantically trying to tighten up the certification specs to prevent such issues -- which has proved a real money maker for the 3rd party labs that do the testing. Spec by spec it becomes harder to pass the tests and still not work with other peoples' hardware. The current specs are about the size, weight, and readability of the Manhattan telephone directory.

But there are two problems: First, the tests really can't nail down everything. The function of HDMI is finicky, particularly when you lard HDCP copy protection on top of it (something HDMI.ORG is quick to point out is NOT part of the base HDMI spec, but rather something the industry insists on imposing ON TOP OF the HDMI spec). Second, there's still lots of older HDMI hardware out there.

And some of that older hardware has problems the new specs try to prevent, as well as problems even the new specs don't address yet. Compatibility with both new and old hardware is an, umm, interesting challenge.

For example, the chips that implement HDMI are not all made by the same company. In the HDMI V1.3 era there were confirmed cases where devices made with chips from one company worked reliably only when connected to hardware using chips from that same company. It would not at all surprise me to learn some of that is still going on in the HDMI V1.4 era.

So who makes your HDMI chips? Do you know? Of course not.

Then, not all HDMI chips of a given spec level implement the same functionality. There are "optional" aspects to the HDMI spec. LOTS AND LOTS of "optional" aspects. And indeed even at the very lowest hardware level there are implementation differences. A classic example was that the first round of HDMI V1.3 chips did not include "dynamic signal equalization" -- which was one of the signal robustness features touted for HDMI V1.3. Of course there's no way any normal customer could find out which flavor of HDMI V1.3 chip might be used in a device touting HDMI V1.3 compatibility.

Really the history of HDMI has been more Microsoft-like. I.e., add features first, then figure out how to get them to work.

And that's just at the chip level. HDMI is quite a bit more complicated than that, particularly now that you have devices with multiple inputs and outputs. Signal fan-out is a good example -- i.e., a signal sent to multiple outputs. The spec contemplates fan-out. It is an approved complexity. But that doesn't mean all the rough edges have been filed off it. Such as what if the device wants to send different signal characteristics to each output -- from a single, copy protected piece of content. How is copy protection supposed to be satisfied when the things at the other end of the two cables respond differently?

And what of signal rejoining? I.e. what if two output paths eventually find their way back to the same device? HDMI 1 from the OPPO to a display, then HDMI 2 to an AVR which ALSO connects to that same display. What is the job of the display and the AVR in such a setup to keep the initial handshake and the copy protection both happy?

And this stuff gets implemented above the level of the chips.

Now the HDMI protocol has built in delays intended to give each device a chance to get its act together when something changes. That's why the minimum time for an HDMI handshake is 2 seconds even with the best devices. They HAVE TO delay things to meet the certification specs.

But what if some device isn't quite fast enough? Then you get a "handshake retry". And what if that only happens in certain cabling and usage configurations? Then you get pissed off customers who complain that HDMI works just fine in usage combo A, but keeps doing retries in usage combo B.

On top of which most users don't know (or care) about the underlying implementation. So they don't understand that a perfectly functioning connection has to be electronically torn down and re-established from scratch when things change. I.e., when you go from the disc menus to the movie content and the stuff coming off the disc changes between 1080i/60 and 1080p/24. Or between DD 2.0 audio and TrueHD 5.1 audio.

Nor do they understand why the industry insisted that the HDCP copy protection algorithm be finicky by design. As I've said more than once, "It LIKES to fail!"

-----------------------------------------------

All that said, far and away the biggest problem with HDMI robustness is cable function. Because the bandwidth on the cable is pretty high, and the chips at each end that are supposed to make it work are pretty cheap, the signals operate on the edge of not working -- even when everything is good.

For example the simple act of fanning out the twisted pair copper wires inside the cable to the wider shape of the HDMI plug has negative impact on the signal. This is why adapters or wall plates or daisy chained cables cause such grief. More fan-outs mean more problems.

And the plugs are just friction fit in the sockets. Even a slight shift of the plug in the socket -- for example, due to the weight or bending of the cable -- is often all it takes to make the signal marginal. This is most common when folks are using new cables or setting up new equipment because the cable still has packaging bends in it which combine with the weight of the cable to tug on the plugs.

Which is why you will see old hands nod knowingly when a report comes in, "It worked just fine with my OLD gear and cables!" (Said with extra frustration of course when that older gear and cabling was also cheaper gear and cabling.)

It also often surprises people to learn that you can even have problems if an HDMI cable is "too short"! This is because those cheap chips I mentioned are designed to assume a certain degree of signal degradation and "correct" for it. But if the cable is too short, that amount of degradation hasn't happened yet and so the correction goes too far.

And the newer HDMI specs put higher and higher bandwidth signals on the cable. A cable that works perfectly well for 1080i/60 from your Comcast HD/DVR may not work well at all for 1080p/60 plus 36-bit Deep Color plus DTS-HD MA 7.1 plus HDMI CEC from a shiny disc player. And that doesn't even touch on 3D. Or the exciting new world of "4K" video. These days it is really a gamble to place an HDMI cable inside a wall. Odds are you'll be replacing it.

Anyway, it is as true today as it was back when HDMI 1.0 first came out -- in fact it is even more true -- if you are having HDMI problems, THE VERY FIRST THING you should consider is whether there are cabling issues. Even replacing a cable with THE EXACT SAME MAKE, MODEL, AND LENGTH of cable might do the trick simply because of manufacturing tolerances in the length of the cable and variations in the mechanical fit of plugs in sockets!

--------------------------------------------------------

The bottom line is that in the brave new world of HDMI the customer has to have patience and a willingness to seek out workarounds.

And remember, the more complexity you add into your configuration, the more likely you may tickle up a problem.

All the manufacturers are frustrated by this too of course. The amount of time spent trying to help customers diagnose and resolve HDMI problems is just staggering. And ask anyone in the Custom Installation community what they think of HDMI and be prepared to have your ears blasted off.

HDMI isn't going away. The content production industry just loves it, some HDMI!

So it *IS* worth it to to spend the time trying various things to get HDMI working "right".

"Right" here means that each HDMI handshake takes the minimum -- about 2 seconds -- and that HDMI handshakes never happen when they are not supposed to happen -- i.e., during the middle of content playback due to bogus failure of the periodic, background, copy protection re-checks.

Unfortunately, that means users need to learn more about what's going on inside the HDMI black box then any rational person would want to know. Things like why turning on Deep Color can make HDMI less robust. Or that connecting to a modern AVR is much MUCH more complicated to get right than connecting to a TV. If those sentences surprised you, then count yourself among the large group of HDMI users who, quite rightly of course, believe "it should all just work", but who don't really understand HOW it works.
--Bob

Don't get me wrong,I'm not bitching about my oppo 93 ,I think it's an excellent universal player and I really like it.
I understand that oppo made firmware changes to make it compatible with the majority of late model receivers,and my Yamaha rxv665 was just super ceded when I bought it(HDMI v1.3),being able to run HDMI 1 direct to my TV and HDMI 2 to my receiver pretty well solved all my issues so I'm pretty happy with my set up at the moment.
Adrian
post #21023 of 26590
^ with HDMI I'm a firm believer that anything that works is better than anything that doesn't work.


--Bob
post #21024 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Perhaps one of our user media mavens here will have a more complete recollection about this.
--Bob

I had one such file and contacted HDTracks and was given a replacement.
I cannot remember which one though.

- Rich (I am not a maven )
post #21025 of 26590
Hi all. I'm considering upgrading my 83 to the 93. One of the things that bugs me about the 83 is certain discs that consistently require me to clear the persistent storage before they will play. I understand the 93 has this issue as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has a feel for how the 93 compares to the 83 in this respect?
post #21026 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by abilyeu View Post

Hi all. I'm considering upgrading my 83 to the 93. One of the things that bugs me about the 83 is certain discs that consistently require me to clear the persistent storage before they will play. I understand the 93 has this issue as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has a feel for how the 93 compares to the 83 in this respect?

Welcome to AVSForum.

It's still recommended procedure when a disc doesn't load. The players may differ in which titles are troublesome, but I don't know that the overall rate has changed. Firmware upgrades often address the issues.

-Bill
post #21027 of 26590
^to be honest... I don't even know what the "Persistent Storage" is... but I don't have any issues playing any disk from any region at any time on my 93.
post #21028 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by abilyeu View Post

Hi all. I'm considering upgrading my 83 to the 93. One of the things that bugs me about the 83 is certain discs that consistently require me to clear the persistent storage before they will play. I understand the 93 has this issue as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has a feel for how the 93 compares to the 83 in this respect?

I almost never erase storage on the 93. It's true there are always some movies with such dismally bad JAVA programming that they cause issues, but leaving BD-Live turned off eliminates 99% of issues on the 93.
post #21029 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by abilyeu View Post

Hi all. I'm considering upgrading my 83 to the 93. One of the things that bugs me about the 83 is certain discs that consistently require me to clear the persistent storage before they will play. I understand the 93 has this issue as well, but I'm wondering if anyone has a feel for how the 93 compares to the 83 in this respect?

I had both players. i still own the 93. I sold the 83 player. while it was a fine player I had more problems with it then the 93. I found the storage thing did work better on the oppo 93. that could just be me.

Jacob
post #21030 of 26590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It also often surprises people to learn that you can even have problems if an HDMI cable is "too short"! This is because those cheap chips I mentioned are designed to assume a certain degree of signal degradation and "correct" for it. But if the cable is too short, that amount of degradation hasn't happened yet and so the correction goes too far.

The "too short" problem was news to me. My AVR has two HDMI inputs. I have the OPPO HDMI switch with the 93, a HD-DVD player, and the Comcast STB connect that has worked fine with short 18" 28 AWG Monoprice cables. I can see a future where I will need at least one more HDMI connection, so I was looking at Monoprice HDMI switches last night.

Monoprice, in red boldface type recommends at least 24 AWG cables at least 4' in length, and preferably two meters. Of course there was also some irony in that the item most often bought with their switches was their 28 AWG gage cable. One wonders what a rack would look like with all those stiff new 24 AWG 6' cables sticking stiffly out the back.

My new mantra is going to be, "If it's working at the moment, don't breath because you might change something!"
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