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Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 806

post #24151 of 26595
Just found the website for dbpoweramp, and found the following entry for this month in their blog at the bottom of the page:

"Using Our Own Tools
Suprisingly, we do not get the chance to run dBpoweramp internally processing huge numbers of files, our user base does for sure (dBpoweramp is trusted by many a large/med/small organization). Well this is set to change, dBpoweramp will be processing ~ 28 Million tracks for Songly, internally we will store as FLAC and process the 90 second preview clips to both mp3 and ogg, using our encoder know how to squeeze great sound from small file sizes."

(I added the italics.)

Phil
post #24152 of 26595
For true archival purposes, a single WAV file with a cue sheet is the closest you can get to a CD image. Ripping FLAC files and embedding with metadata is fine for playback, but the resulting files are no longer what came off the disc. You also have to be careful that you preserve gap info if you rip individual FLAC files if you want to ensure flawless gapless playback. That's where you need the cue sheet with track points. Of course, hi-rez files downloaded from HDtracks and other sources are not true archival files.

I use MediaMonkey to synch my with my iPhone and iPod which converts FLAC files to MP3 on-the-fly, so there is no need for me to store MP3 files any longer, except a few hundred that are left over from earlier days of downloading MP3 files.

My tools:
EAC for CD ripping to FLAC or WAV with cue sheet
DVD Audio Extractor for ripping DVD-A & DVD-V to FLAC
eac3to for ripping Blu-ray to FLAC
DVDFab for ripping DVD-A & Blu-ray to ISO
MP3tag for tagging FLAC or MP3
MediaMonkey for general media management / synching / playlists / streaming
Foobar2000 for PC playback / file conversion / streaming SACD & DVD-A ISOs and much more
Edited by scolumbo - 12/31/12 at 7:40am
post #24153 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

. . .You also have to be careful that you preserve gap info if you rip individual FLAC files if you want to ensure flawless gapless playback. That's where you need the cue sheet with track points. . . .

For concerts where I want gapless playback, I make a composite FLAC or MP3 with either SoX (for FLACs) or MergeMP3 (similarly-named to MP3Merge but much more powerful and flexible) - both are free.

Before you start, use MP3tag to make the filenames of the individual tracks start with a zero-padded track number - that makes it easy to be sure the tracks end up in the right order.

SoX does require a level of comfort with a DOS command line, but isn't hard to use - just (1) install "Open Command Window here" - a free MS Windows "PowerToy" to make it easy to open a command file on the folder you've put the individual tracks into - and
(2) create a text file with the path to SoX and the name of the program, followed by a space, all in quotes, followed by *.FLAC. That makes it easy to copy and paste the commmand onto the command line. You just add the name you want to give the composite file, ending in .FLAC (also in quotes if it includes a space), and hit enter. SoX will put the files together in filename order. When the command prompt comes back it's done. Then bring MP3tag back up and change the track name on the composite file from the name of the first track to the name of the concert.

MergeMP3 lets you sort the MP3s you've added to its list by filename - so the MP3tag trick works for both types of file. MergeMP3 lets you type in the track title, filename, etc. for the merged file before you start.

Unless the creator of the individual FLACs or MP3s has screwed around with the beginnings and endings of the carved-up tracks with overlaps or fades (as they did to the transitions between disks on the original Deutch Grammaphone performance of Steve Reich's Drumming - only the first transition was left alone), the result plays seamlessly.

Then I create a subfolder and move the individual tracks into it for when I want to jump to a particular track.

Phil
Edited by Philnick - 12/31/12 at 1:26pm
post #24154 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

All the remake Total Recall discs are defective, evidently the replication plant decided to punish Sony for blaspheming Ar

nold.

rented Total Recall and I had no audio issues at all with my Oppo 93 NE. Of course I use analog
post #24155 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

For true archival purposes, a single WAV file with a cue sheet is the closest you can get to a CD image. Ripping FLAC files and embedding with metadata is fine for playback, but the resulting files are no longer what came off the disc. You also have to be careful that you preserve gap info if you rip individual FLAC files if you want to ensure flawless gapless playback. That's where you need the cue sheet with track points. Of course, hi-rez files downloaded from HDtracks and other sources are not true archival files.
I use MediaMonkey to synch my with my iPhone and iPod which converts FLAC files to MP3 on-the-fly, so there is no need for me to store MP3 files any longer, except a few hundred that are left over from earlier days of downloading MP3 files.
My tools:
EAC for CD ripping to FLAC or WAV with cue sheet
DVD Audio Extractor for ripping DVD-A & DVD-V to FLAC
eac3to for ripping Blu-ray to FLAC
DVDFab for ripping DVD-A & Blu-ray to ISO
MP3tag for tagging FLAC or MP3
MediaMonkey for general media management / synching / playlists / streaming
Foobar2000 for PC playback / file conversion / streaming SACD & DVD-A ISOs and much more
For the Oppo, sure, but there are software players (Foobar2000 even) that can handle gapless playback just fine, and I am more than impressed with my modern ripper's capability in ripping adequately enough. I guess I'm just less paranoid than yourself about potential audible hiccups during transitions (now my mix CDs may be a different story; still haven't decided how I'm going to rip those yet) .wink.gif

Speaking of dbpoweramp, that's what I use, AccurateRip along with their batch converter. I'm now converting to the awesome format that is Opus (Vorby's natural successor) for use on my portable/phone: http://opus-codec.org/ (patent-free and standardized by the Internet Engineering Task Force)- even 64 kbps sounds good for such purposes (whereas I couldn't get below 80 kbps with Vorbis without tolerating it before). Here was a double blind test conducted last year @ that bitrate with a few other competing formats (CELT/Opus included, which has no doubt improved since then with more development/tuning):

http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/results.html

Sorry, went a little off-topic, but it might be nice to see this format on the Oppo just for completeness' sake. wink.gif
post #24156 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

For the Oppo, sure, but there are software players (Foobar2000 even) that can handle gapless playback just fine, and I am more than impressed with my modern ripper's capability in ripping adequately enough. I guess I'm just less paranoid than yourself about potential audible hiccups during transitions (now my mix CDs may be a different story; still haven't decided how I'm going to rip those yet) .wink.gif
Speaking of dbpoweramp, that's what I use, AccurateRip along with their batch converter. I'm now converting to the awesome format that is Opus (Vorby's natural successor) for use on my portable/phone: http://opus-codec.org/ (patent-free and standardized by the Internet Engineering Task Force)- even 64 kbps sounds good for such purposes (whereas I couldn't get below 80 kbps with Vorbis without tolerating it before). Here was a double blind test conducted last year @ that bitrate with a few other competing formats (CELT/Opus included, which has no doubt improved since then with more development/tuning):
http://listening-tests.hydrogenaudio.org/igorc/results.html
Sorry, went a little off-topic, but it might be nice to see this format on the Oppo just for completeness' sake. wink.gif

I use FLAC and ISOs for all my music playback whether it's on the Oppo, or with my pc using Foobar. I'm just pointing out that archivists do not consider individual FLAC files embedded with metadata to be archival quality.

I've also begun authoring DVD-A ISOs from redbook 16/44.1 PCM files in order to get gapless playback on the Oppo. The advantage with authoring a DVD-A ISO is I can create menus for track selection/navigation, and to display track titles along with cover art as the ISO is playing. You can also be as creative as you want to be for hierarchical menus and background graphics, etc. For instance, I can create a DVD-A ISO that contains every CD from an artist (up to 99) and can then select the album and/or track, and it plays gaplessly with album/track title/cover art displayed. I can skip forward or backward or bring up the menu to select an individual track or another album, all from a single DVD-A ISO.

The lack of DVD-A ISO capability with the 103/105 is why I'll hang onto my 93 with ISO playback (along with my backup 93). I understand the 103/105 can play a Blu-ray ISO, but not DVD-A ISOs.
Edited by scolumbo - 12/31/12 at 11:08am
post #24157 of 26595
I am a little jealous, I'll admit (I don't have the 93 any longer). I am happy enough with the archival capability of separate FLACs at this juncture, though I also understand why the purist would find them less than appealing (and if I want playback on the Oppo as was intended, I have to play the disc!).
post #24158 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I use FLAC and ISOs for all my music playback whether it's on the Oppo, or with my pc using Foobar. I'm just pointing out that archivists do not consider individual FLAC files embedded with metadata to be archival quality.
I've also begun authoring DVD-A ISOs from redbook 16/44.1 PCM files in order to get gapless playback on the Oppo. The advantage with authoring a DVD-A ISO is I can create menus for track selection/navigation, and to display track titles along with cover art as the ISO is playing. You can also be as creative as you want to be for hierarchical menus and background graphics, etc. For instance, I can create a DVD-A ISO that contains every CD from an artist (up to 99) and can then select the album and/or track, and it plays gaplessly with album/track title/cover art displayed. I can skip forward or backward or bring up the menu to select an individual track or another album, all from a single DVD-A ISO.
The lack of DVD-A ISO capability with the 103/105 is why I'll hang onto my 93 with ISO playback (along with my backup 93). I understand the 103/105 can play a Blu-ray ISO, but not DVD-A ISOs.

Which of the apps in your previous post do you use to author DVD-A ISOs? I'm assuming the CDs 16/44.1 PCM files doesn't get touched going to DVD-A. Where does the 99 limitation come from? Seems large or can the DVD-A ISO be bigger then physical disks?
post #24159 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I am a little jealous, I'll admit (I don't have the 93 any longer). I am happy enough with the archival capability of separate FLACs at this juncture, though I also understand why the purist would find them less than appealing (and if I want playback on the Oppo as was intended, I have to play the disc!).

I don't go overboard, but if I have rare or hard to replace CDs, I'll rip a single WAV file so that I know I can recreate the disc if needed. It's the same reason I like ISOs for DVD-As. I have too many virtually irreplaceable DVD-A discs, so the ISO as an image file, can be used as a disc backup. The additional benefit of the ISO is having gapless playback with the Oppo, along with having menus, track navigation, and bonus materials such as lyrics, videos, photos, etc. easily accessible. You lose all that by ripping FLAC files.
post #24160 of 26595
I don't have many DVD-As fortunately (or unfortunately!), so I have not needed to engage that kind of backup effort, but I see the appeal.
post #24161 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Which of the apps in your previous post do you use to author DVD-A ISOs? I'm assuming the CDs 16/44.1 PCM files doesn't get touched going to DVD-A. Where does the 99 limitation come from? Seems large or can the DVD-A ISO be bigger then physical disks?

There are various programs for authoring DVD-As. DiscWelder and Cirlinca DVD-Audio are popular. I think there may even be some free software out there if you look for it.

You can specify that the input bitrate/samplerate is not altered, although you can also upsample to a higher resolution, I believe up to 24/192 for stereo and 24/96 for 5.1. However, I prefer not to alter the resolution with redbook CDs. I haven't experimented enough, but I think you can even mix different resolutions into a single DVD-A. You can use a single PCM file for an album and enter track points (from a cue sheet for instance), or combine individual tracks and create a gapless ISO. I don't use MLP compression, but that takes additional software, Surcode is one program that I've heard will apply MLP compression. A DVD-A ISO for one redbook CD without compression is just under 1GB.

I *think* but I'm not positive that the DVD-A standard creates the 99 limitation because I've seen that same limitation with several of the DVD-A authoring software.
post #24162 of 26595
OK I think I misinterpreted the 99 limit. That refers to files not actual CDs right? As that would be 99GB, bigger then even a D/L BD. I have the Cirlinca software but haven't used it in ages, it never occurred to me to use it for plain ole CDs.
post #24163 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

OK I think I misinterpreted the 99 limit. That refers to files not actual CDs right? As that would be 99GB, bigger then even a D/L BD. I have the Cirlinca software but haven't used it in ages, it never occurred to me to use it for plain ole CDs.

Correct, 99 tracks is the limit. I probably didn't state that clearly.
Edited by scolumbo - 12/31/12 at 1:49pm
post #24164 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Why not skip WAV and archive with FLAC as well?

As well as many of the reasons already posted, in my case both my flac and mp3 rips are like working files. What I mean is I don't simply create the flac files, store on HDD or NAS and use them for playback.

The files are used. For instance, I might grab a bunch of flac folders and dump them on my Android phone. I usually do this as a copy and paste. About twelve months ago I did this before going on holidays but instead of copy I must have done cut. Whilst on holidays I went swimming with the phone in my pocket. Bye bye flac files frown.gif

The wav files (for me) are a true archive and never get touched or shuffled around...except when I need to recreate flac files biggrin.gif

cheers
blairy
post #24165 of 26595
My archives are the original disks since they never get played or mishandled, and I've never had any kind of bit rot from just having them sit around. I am pretty paranoid about my flac files though, most are duplicated in at least one location if not two or three locations.
post #24166 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

My archives are the original disks since they never get played or mishandled, and I've never had any kind of bit rot from just having them sit around. I am pretty paranoid about my flac files though, most are duplicated in at least one location if not two or three locations.

I'm probably like blairy, I like knowing that if anything happens to the FLAC files, I never have to touch or handle the disc again to re-rip files. Just like with data storage redundancy , the WAV file is my peace-of-mind that I have a preserved digital image file. Same with ISOs for DVD-A, DVD-V and Blu-ray discs.
post #24167 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

rented Total Recall and I had no audio issues at all with my Oppo 93 NE. Of course I use analog
After reading all the comments earlier regarding the audio dropouts on this movie when using bitstreaming audio via hdmi, I tried an experiment. I ripped the main title (only) to an M2TS file and placed it on my nas. I then streamed the file to my Oppo with the audio setting at bitstream as usual. Unfortunately, I still got the audio dropouts and changing my audio setting to LPCM on the Oppo immediately solved the problem. I thought that perhaps removing some of the java crud might help this issue, but there was no improvement, so the fault is actually imbedded in the main movie file itself. Thanks to all who posted about this issue and how they were able to resolve it; as a result, I was able to enjoy my movie Saturday night.biggrin.gif
post #24168 of 26595
I rip all of my BDs to M2TS and mount on my NAS - including Recall. Strange thing is I don't get dropouts just massive lip sync issues with Recall. My 93 has never been set to anything but bitstream. I have yet to play the actual shiney disk. :-)
post #24169 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I rip all of my BDs to M2TS and mount on my NAS - including Recall. Strange thing is I don't get dropouts just massive lip sync issues with Recall. My 93 has never been set to anything but bitstream. I have yet to play the actual shiney disk. :-)
That is strange. What is your 93 connected to? I have my 93 connected to a Denon 4311 and got audio dropouts almost immediately with bitstreaming. I changed it to LPCM on the fly and it immediately stopped the dropouts. I didn't notice any lip sync issues while bitstreaming, but it was for such a short time, that I could have just missed it. No lip sync issues on this disc when using the LPCM audio.
post #24170 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post

That is strange. What is your 93 connected to? I have my 93 connected to a Denon 4311 and got audio dropouts almost immediately with bitstreaming. I changed it to LPCM on the fly and it immediately stopped the dropouts. I didn't notice any lip sync issues while bitstreaming, but it was for such a short time, that I could have just missed it. No lip sync issues on this disc when using the LPCM audio.
I'm a Yamaha guy - Z11 receiver. Have had very little if any audio drop-out type issues with the 93. Not sure if it has anything to do with my 93s old firmware load or not. That could be the lip-sync issue however.
post #24171 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by KJSmitty View Post

I'm a Yamaha guy - Z11 receiver. Have had very little if any audio drop-out type issues with the 93. Not sure if it has anything to do with my 93s old firmware load or not. That could be the lip-sync issue however.
Could be the old firmware, I suppose. I have the latest Oppo firmware installed.
post #24172 of 26595
Lip Sync issues with the new "Total Recall" (2012), Blu-ray, are part and parcel of its authoring screw-up. The workaround is to Rewind a bit and start Play again.
--Bob
post #24173 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

My archives are the original disks since they never get played or mishandled, and I've never had any kind of bit rot from just having them sit around. I am pretty paranoid about my flac files though, most are duplicated in at least one location if not two or three locations.
I ripped my CD collection to MP3 a while back and have been going through again recently to redo them in FLAC. I've come across a non-trivial number of CD's that I've had to replace because of unreadable sections, so I'll never rely on the originals as my backups again. A few of the CD's have been very difficult and/or expensive to replace.
post #24174 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I ripped my CD collection to MP3 a while back and have been going through again recently to redo them in FLAC. I've come across a non-trivial number of CD's that I've had to replace because of unreadable sections, so I'll never rely on the originals as my backups again. A few of the CD's have been very difficult and/or expensive to replace.
I'm just curous and yes, I realize this is off topic, but how did you handle your problematic CDs? Were you careful to only hold them by the outside edges or did you actually touch the surface with fingers the way my Wife likes to handle them?.eek.gif The reason I ask is I would like to have some sort of example I could show her as to why it is important to handle ALL shiny disc media properly. LOL
post #24175 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

I'm just curous and yes, I realize this is off topic, but how did you handle your problematic CDs? Were you careful to only hold them by the outside edges or did you actually touch the surface with fingers the way my Wife likes to handle them?.eek.gif The reason I ask is I would like to have some sort of example I could show her as to why it is important to handle ALL shiny disc media properly. LOL
I handle all of my media carefully. Some of the CD's that went bad had probably only been played a few times (including when I initially ripped them to MP3's), while some of the first CD's I bought many years ago when I got my first CD player have been played hundreds of times and are still fine. My point was that CD's sometimes go bad and it's not a good idea to rely on them as your only backup - after they go out of print they can become difficult and/or expensive to replace.
post #24176 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Lip Sync issues with the new "Total Recall" (2012), Blu-ray, are part and parcel of its authoring screw-up. The workaround is to Rewind a bit and start Play again.
--Bob

I don't believe this is an authoring screw-up, but a deliberate authoring decision to upset the rippers, which has had unforeseen consequences for legitimate players.

Some versions of titles seem to have a DD+ track as the companion embedded soundtrack with TrueHD, along with the usual splitting of files and overlaps. There is no logical reason for having DD+ as the "core", since SPDIF can not handle it and that is the only reason for having a core.

IMO, standalone players or AVR are becoming confused when bitstreaming this unexpected combination of TrueHD and DD+, whereas internally decoding the audio in sync with the video is perhaps better able to simply ignore the DD "extras".

I firmly believe that this was an attempt by the studios to see how effective this method is at slowing down the rippers. Like Cinavia, it has only been used on a limited number of titles and on only a limited number of versions of those titles to limit the damage from an adverse reaction and test the waters.
post #24177 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

I understand the 103/105 can play a Blu-ray ISO, but not DVD-A ISOs.

I havent upgraded to the latest firmware as ISO support was dropped on the 93.....so you're saying its back on the new model?
post #24178 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Some versions of titles seem to have a DD+ track as the companion embedded soundtrack with TrueHD, along with the usual splitting of files and overlaps.
How can you tell if a disc has a DD+ core? It would presumably be converted on the fly to DD for S/PDIF, and the disc itself will not offer the user access to the core. I'd like to buy/test a title with DD+ core. Can you let me know which have it? Thanks!
post #24179 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

I havent upgraded to the latest firmware as ISO support was dropped on the 93.....so you're saying its back on the new model?

No, but with the addition of SMB access, it's possible to mount a Blu-ray ISO and play it via a SMB share. Only one ISO at a time can be mounted though. It's nowhere near as versatile as ISO playback on the 93/95, but it's at least possible.

Also, it only works with Blu-ray, not DVD-A or DVD-V.
post #24180 of 26595
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I don't have many DVD-As fortunately (or unfortunately!), so I have not needed to engage that kind of backup effort, but I see the appeal.

I began buying up as many DVD-As as I could when it became evident that the format was becoming obsolete. Not only am I a big fan of surround sound, but many times the hi-rez stereo layers that are included are superior to their redbook CD counterparts. Many of these discs are long ago OOP and if you can find them, they are outrageously priced. I lost one DVD-A when I mishandled it when I was ambushed by my then 8-yr. old as I was removing it from a disc tray. Cost me $85 to replace. These days, it would probably run into the hundreds.

Fortunately, there's even been a bit of an uptick in DVD-A releases lately, and there are some exquisite recordings being released (e.g. King Crimson catalog).
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