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Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 814

post #24391 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by wl1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Yes.
But that is not my issue.
Onkyo 906 uses an HQV chip, and I have all processing turned off on the Blu Ray input.

My issue is within the player's internal scaler.

Do you have your AVR "1.1 Monitor Output" set to "Through" or "Source"?

The latter allows "per input" setting of the Resolution in the "4.4 Picture Adjust" area. Is there a"Direct" option here?

And does the secret menu for your AVR work? The Video Skip which is by pressing VCR and Return on the AVR simultaneously? In fact, I would try this first.

I know you think you have ruled out the AVR, by using Source Direct, but it maybe the combination of settings that are wrong.



Yes my 906 allows a per input pass through mode.
The issue your talking about is on the 08 series Onkyo's using DCDI scalers.
post #24392 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Yes my 906 allows a per input pass through mode.
The issue your talking about is on the 08 series Onkyo's using DCDI scalers.


its has come to attention that even the higher end onkyo receivers have the 24P bug problem including the 818.
its not just the 08 series.
Jacob
post #24393 of 26610
Regardless of all of this, isn't it a basic troubleshooting step to connect HDMI1 directly to the display and see if the problem still happens?
post #24394 of 26610
You do understand that the Onyko makes no distinction between source direct 1080/24p and 1080/24p from the Oppo when it is applying the Qdeo to all out going video?
Thats a difference.
My onkyo 906 is not having the 24p issue that the 608 and 818 models have, it is not the Onkyo's fault.

Two other people saw the issue, most people won't catch it.
It is not an HDMI thing. I spend nearly 2 months doing all manner of changes and things- the culprit is When the Oppo passes video through it's own video processor.
Late Summer firmware updates to the Oppo's video processor have put it slightly out of whack.
post #24395 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I spend nearly 2 months doing all manner of changes and things

Was one of those things connecting HDMI1 directly to the display? If not, are you saying you've done enough troubleshooting now that you're simply refusing to do even the basic steps that you skipped? And if you are refusing to troubleshoot your problem, why post?
post #24396 of 26610
I did that, that was one of the first things I did.
post #24397 of 26610
Hooray! THAT shows it isn't the receiver, nothing else you've posted until now actually proved that. Now the ball seems in Oppo's court.
post #24398 of 26610
I recently played the Japanese Bluray of "Sleepy Hollow" and motion was incredibly juddery as though frames were being dropped or added in some kind of standards conversion: much worse than 3:2 pulldown judder. It was worst at 1080p and a little better with Source Direct. I have my AVR video processing set to Off.

According to the Oppo Display function, this title was 29.76fps. I had understood beforehand that this title was interlaced.

Is this a known issue that was fixed with more recent firmware?

I haven't yet tried 1080i and using my AVR's inbuilt ABT2010 to perform IVTC, but I was hoping the Oppo 93 would handle 1080p conversion better.
post #24399 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

I recently played the Japanese Bluray of "Sleepy Hollow" and motion was incredibly juddery as though frames were being dropped or added in some kind of standards conversion: much worse than 3:2 pulldown judder. It was worst at 1080p and a little better with Source Direct. I have my AVR video processing set to Off.

According to the Oppo Display function, this title was 29.76fps. I had understood beforehand that this title was interlaced.

Is this a known issue that was fixed with more recent firmware?

I haven't yet tried 1080i and using my AVR's inbuilt ABT2010 to perform IVTC, but I was hoping the Oppo 93 would handle 1080p conversion better.

I don't recall any problem reports with 1080i BR. I can try one later today although I don't have that specific title.

Have you played a disc like this before? Do you know that your receiver and display handle 1080i60 without issue?

-Bill
post #24400 of 26610
No problems here with either 1080/50i or 1080/60i output at 1080p.
post #24401 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

I recently played the Japanese Bluray of "Sleepy Hollow" and motion was incredibly juddery as though frames were being dropped or added in some kind of standards conversion: much worse than 3:2 pulldown judder. It was worst at 1080p and a little better with Source Direct. I have my AVR video processing set to Off.

According to the Oppo Display function, this title was 29.76fps. I had understood beforehand that this title was interlaced.

Is this a known issue that was fixed with more recent firmware?

I haven't yet tried 1080i and using my AVR's inbuilt ABT2010 to perform IVTC, but I was hoping the Oppo 93 would handle 1080p conversion better.

De-interlacing 1080i Blu-ray to 1080p output is a trivial process, relatively speaking, and would be highly unlikely to produce the type of stuttering you are referring to.

I, too, have been playing 1080i Blu-ray discs at 1080p output, without any such problem.

I think the odds are excellent that the stuttering you are getting is being introduced by either the AVR or the Display. The most likely cause is that one or the other (or both) are set to *FORCE* /60 input to /24.

Of course if the content was truly /60 (or /50) to begin with, any attempt to convert that to /24 (or a multiple of /24) is doomed to failure. There is no way to tell which portions of the video stream can safely be discarded to reduce the frame rate.

The result will always be "frame drop stutter", which is easily visible -- particular in smooth pans since so much of the image is in uniform motion. Frame Drop Stutter is a gross effect -- too obvious to ignore, and significantly worse than the "cadence judder" that happens when /24 original content is played at /60.

If you mostly play "normal" Blu-ray movies, then you may have been sending 1080p/24 to your AVR and Display -- and so a setting to force /24 in either of them would produce no problems.
--Bob
post #24402 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

De-interlacing 1080i Blu-ray to 1080p output is a trivial process, relatively speaking, and would be highly unlikely to produce the type of stuttering you are referring to.

I would have thought so, but this title is proving problematic and is the first I have experienced which does this IIRC. Not that I have played many (if any) 1080i60 titles, but a few 1080i50 titles with no problem.

I have my AVR set to Video processing Off for the Oppo input, so I don't think it is that.

I have a Sony EX500 LCD and the only setting that might have a bearing on this issue is Cinema Drive and that is always turned Off.

I have also tried setting the Oppo to 1080i and Source Direct and the AVR to 1080p24 (it has an ABT2010 chip that can perform IVTC), with no improvement to the problem, which is curious as the ABT2010 is supposed to be quite good at this. In both cases, the TV displayed that it is receiving 1080p24, so would be doing no processing: therefore I don't think it is the TV or the AVR.

I did find it curious that the Information button on the Oppo indicated an AVC source of 29.970Hz, when I thought it was 60i, but then I am not sure what the Oppo Info would normally show for this type of material.

Based on my experiments to date, I would say that it is more likely this title is actually 29.97fps encoded and not 60i, so the frame drops/repeats are hard coded and more apparent than if it was 60i with pulldown: consequently unable to be removed by the Oppo or AVR.

I do have a DVDO Edge with a PreP facility (re-interlaces and then IVTCs progressive material) that I will try next, but it means reconfiguring the system.

The Bluray title is on loan from a friend for not much longer as it is quite rare and expensive to replace, so I think my testing will have to be limited.

Does anyone have a list of 1080i60 titles, in case I have one to test?

I have also played this title on my PC with PotPlayer and at 60Hz is perfectly smooth without the frame drops/repeats of the Oppo.
Edited by IanD - 1/18/13 at 1:02am
post #24403 of 26610
^ Hang on. Sending 1080p/24 to the TV is precisely what you are trying to *AVOID* doing for a 1080i/60 Blu-ray. You should be sending the TV 1080p/60.

Do this: In the OPPO set resolution 1080p, and 1080p/24 OFF. Play the disc and press the Info button on the OPPO remote to bring up the on-screen display. The bottom line of the Info display will show the video format coming off the disc, as you've already spotted. Now press either Up or Down Arrow and you'll see the bottom line of the on-screen display changes to show what the OPPO is sending as OUTPUT on each HDMI cable. It should say that it is sending 1080p/60 video output.

Now do whatever you need to do in the AVR to get the TV to say it is receiving 1080p/60 from the AVR (not 1080p/24). Do you still have the Stutter?

If NOT, go back and change the OPPO to the normal, 1080p/24 Auto setting (leave 1080p resolution). The TV should STILL be receiving 1080p/60 and without stutter. I.e., nothing should have changed.

NOTE: A 1080i/60 video is actually 1080i/59.94 (for technical reasons). That's the number of interlaced half frames (fields) per second. That's equivalent to 29.97 de-interlaced full frames per second which is what the OPPO display is showing as input. To produce 1080p/60 output, the player will de-interlace the input to produce 29.97 fps full frames and then send each full frame twice into the output. Thus you get 1080p/59.94 full frames per second as output (abbreviated 1080p@60Hz in the on-screen Info display).

If the AVR is converting that to 1080p/24 to go to the TV, then that's exactly where the stutter is coming from.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 1/18/13 at 1:32am
post #24404 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If the AVR is converting that to 1080p/24 to go to the TV, then that's exactly where the stutter is coming from.

No, the AVR only sends 1080p24 if I engage Video processing and choose 1080p24. I normally run the AVR with Video processing off, which is the state when I first noticed the strange judder. Outputting 1080i, 1080p and Source Direct from the Oppo has minimal effect on the judder when AVR processing is off.

I only engaged AVR processing with 1080p24 output to see if the AVR's ABT2010 produced a smoother result via IVTC than 1080p/i direct from the Oppo: it was curious that it was similarly bad as the ABT2010 is supposed to be quite good with IVTC.

I did not know about the up/down arrow trick for Info, so will test that later.

I might try connecting the Oppo direct to the TV to eliminate the AVR, although it shouldn't have any effect when video processing is set to Off (ie pass-thru), but it's always a nuisance reconfiguring HDMI equipment, because for safety the equipment should be turned off each time before a plug is removed.

I'm intrigued that I get the smoothest result via PC playback to a 60Hz monitor (actually a Sony EX500 LCD 32" TV), but that only means it's either the Oppo or AVR producing this effect.

Considering the rarity of this title, it is possible no-one has seen this problem before with an Oppo. It's annoying because the Japanese Bluray has the best AV quality I have seen yet for the Sleepy Hollow title (barring the judder on some equipment).
post #24405 of 26610
/\
I think the recent alterations to the Qdeo have been harmful to many...
post #24406 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

/\
I think the recent alterations to the Qdeo have been harmful to many...

My God...I'm about to unfollow this thread until Fanboyz is happy with his Oppo. It's becoming a bit too much.
post #24407 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

/\
I think the recent alterations to the Qdeo have been harmful to many...
I think you're making assumptions without enough information (I'm going to assume you haven't seen the source code), misleading people with statements such as the above, and making a mountain out of a mole hill here...
post #24408 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I think you're making assumptions without enough information (I'm going to assume you haven't seen the source code), misleading people with statements such as the above, and making a mountain out of a mole hill here...

I agree.

Jacob
post #24409 of 26610
OT I know, but I know there are some people around here who will care, The Eagles Hotel California SACD is $38 right now at Amazon. LINK Usually its $54 and hasnt been that low since 2011 LINK
post #24410 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

OT I know, but I know there are some people around here who will care, The Eagles Hotel California SACD is $38 right now at Amazon. LINK Usually its $54 and hasnt been that low since 2011 LINK
Thanks for the heads up!
post #24411 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Thanks for the heads up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

OT I know, but I know there are some people around here who will care, The Eagles Hotel California SACD is $38 right now at Amazon. LINK Usually its $54 and hasnt been that low since 2011 LINK

Just ordered! This was on my SA-CD.net wish list; Now it's on my library list. Thanks!
post #24412 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

/\
I think the recent alterations to the Qdeo have been harmful to many...
I think you're making assumptions without enough information (I'm going to assume you haven't seen the source code), misleading people with statements such as the above, and making a mountain out of a mole hill here...


No, my hypothesis is correct.
The August firmware caused the Qdeo chip to wig out.
Just because everyone is too busy streaming files from external hard drives to realize how the Oppo actually operates with Blu Rays anymore.

If people still used it as intended more people would be complaining.
post #24413 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

No, my hypothesis is correct.
The August firmware caused the Qdeo chip to wig out.
Just because everyone is too busy streaming files from external hard drives to realize how the Oppo actually operates with Blu Rays anymore.

If people still used it as intended more people would be complaining.

Repeating your complaints here are not going to solve your problem. We can't help you.

You need to deal directly with OPPO on your 1-dropped-frame-every-couple-of-hours issue. If OPPO can't help you then you need to live with it, or get rid of the -93 and move on to another player.

Let me repeat: it accomplishes NOTHING to keep posting here. It just irritates enough people such that someone will eventually contact the forum mods and ask them to ban you.

I would hate to do that because yours is indeed a BDP-93 issue but you have posted ENOUGH about it.

-Bill
post #24414 of 26610
Aren't you one of Oppo's tech people?
post #24415 of 26610
No, just a beta tester and maintainer of the unofficial FAQs.

We are all volunteers here. To communicate with OPPO you have to contact OPPO, not post complaints at AVSForum.

They are paid to help you (if they can). We are not, hence some expressions of impatience directed your way.

-Bill
post #24416 of 26610
Oh very sorry.
Really I thought you were the head of one of their departments.

Sorry.
post #24417 of 26610
PLONK
post #24418 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post


Just ordered! This was on my SA-CD.net wish list; Now it's on my library list. Thanks!
Ha ha was in mine too! I had been watching it on Amazon for months and then I ran into a couple deals on eBay for a sealed DVD-A and sealed SACD version and jumped on both and couldnt decide which to keep! After reading some comparisons (and knowing what the DVD-A version sells for) I think Im going to keep the SACD version and sell the DVD-A one! Either way Im glad I finally have the album in my multi-channel audio collection!
post #24419 of 26610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

Oh very sorry.
Really I thought you were the head of one of their departments.

Sorry.
Another hypothesis down the drain. wink.gif
post #24420 of 26610
Yeah.

It was an easy mistake though.
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