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Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 843

post #25261 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gialandon View Post


I also read in a few other places that cinivea protection did not work with the OPPO 93. Is this true because I have recently started to get a warning when playing iso rips. For example about 5 min into Conan the barbarian I get a screen saying it is illegal to pirate videos and then I am returned to the main menu. I can't skip past this part of the movie.

That's not a Cinavia issue. If you're watching a main movie rip, its due to ripping the wrong title set. Cinavia just mutes the audio.
post #25262 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gialandon View Post

Ahhh OK. I assumed that setting it to source direct would pass through the video and I thought I had set it up incorrectly.

I am on firmware bdp9x-61-1219. I had read somewhere that 720p upscaling was broken with this firmware. Is this correct?

I also read in a few other places that cinivea protection did not work with the OPPO 93. Is this true because I have recently started to get a warning when playing iso rips. For example about 5 min into Conan the barbarian I get a screen saying it is illegal to pirate videos and then I am returned to the main menu. I can't skip past this part of the movie.

720p24 is the only thing that upsets Source Direct in its ability to pass video untouched, because it is not part of the standard, however the Oppo automatically compensates to provide a standards compliant output for this particular input.

I'm not sure that 720p upscaling is broken with particular firmware, but there is an upscaling issue that was corrected in later firmware. The issue is not major and I don't have a problem with it on a 42" display. Of course I would prefer it to be better, but that would mean losing ISO capability: there is a price to pay for having ISO ability.

The Oppo doesn't support Cinavia, so it is not an issue. Your problem is due to incorrect removal of the DRM on a title. It's important to properly remove all the DRM on a title if you want correct playback from a copy: not simply about region coding.
post #25263 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gialandon View Post

. . . .

I also have a couple of other questions;

I am on firmware bdp9x-61-1219. I had read somewhere that 720p upscaling was broken with this firmware. Is this correct?

. . . .

Yes, that's correct, although you may need to be a video quality fanatic to spot it. The problem ONLY affects color positioning, and ONLY happens when 720p content is upscaled to 1080i or 1080p output (on either HDMI 1 or HDMI 2). The error is a vertical misalignment of colors. It is a relatively small misalignment, but enough to reduce the image quality.

The workaround is to use explicit 720p output when playing 720p content in this older firmware. I.e., let your AVR or Display do the upscaling.

NOTE: The current "Official" (and "Public Beta") firmware release fixes this issue for 720p content upscaled for output on HDMI 1, but the problem still exists if using HDMI 2 output for video.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 6/16/13 at 7:02pm
post #25264 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The workaround is to use explicit 720p output when playing 720p content in this older firmware. I.e., let your AVR or Display do the upscaling.

Unfortunately, then you won't get retention of 24fps for 720p24 material and will have to live with the jerkiness of pulldown/frame repeats.

With the number of "cripplings" in the Oppo, it is almost like someone deliberately looked at what minor changes could be made to sabotage every workaround for perfect playback of copies of Bluray material: mkv won't handle FLAC or DTS-HD MA or PGS subtitles, mkv has upscaling issues with 720p unless one updates to later firmware which removes ISO capability, m2ts won't support chapter navigation, BDMV won't handle 3D without doubling the storage requirements, etc.
post #25265 of 26597
^ Uh, do you really have all that much 720p/24 material in your collection of Blu-ray copies?

Anyway last I saw, the banner streaming behind those black helicopters read, "This is not a conspiracy. You haven't SPOTTED the conspiracy, yet."
--Bob
post #25266 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Unfortunately, then you won't get retention of 24fps for 720p24 material and will have to live with the jerkiness of pulldown/frame repeats.

With the number of "cripplings" in the Oppo, it is almost like someone deliberately looked at what minor changes could be made to sabotage every workaround for perfect playback of copies of Bluray material: mkv won't handle FLAC or DTS-HD MA or PGS subtitles, mkv has upscaling issues with 720p unless one updates to later firmware which removes ISO capability, m2ts won't support chapter navigation, BDMV won't handle 3D without doubling the storage requirements, etc.

Lack of 720p24 is an HDMI limitation, not a limitation of the OPPO.

Same with no chapters in M2TS: that's a problem with the container, not the player itself. Chapters are stored elsewhere in the BR structure.

As for FLAC in MKV: someone with recent firmware should check that again.

-Bill
post #25267 of 26597
Interesting experimental discoveries about HDCD playback that I made last night:

It appears that the 93 will not recognize as HDCD networked FLACs made from an HDCD disk, though it will recognize as HDCD the same FLACs burned to CD and inserted in the disk drawer - even with CD-Text added via a cue file.

This makes my networked jukebox a little less attractive - it works fine with regular CDs and even with 5.1 96/24 and stereo 192/24 FLACs, just not with HDCD FLACs.

The side benefit, however, is that CD-Text disks made with a cue file by ImgBurn are not only recognized as HDCD by the Oppo but the Oppo also displays the Artist, Track, and Album tags (but not the cover art thumbnails I added using MP3Tag).

This makes the homemade disks more functional than the original HDCDs they were ripped from, which don't include the CD-Text tags!

PS On both the original HDCDs and my homemade CD-Text copies, the Oppo reports that they're HDCDs, but that the individual tracks are "44.1/16b" - though I had thought that the whole point of HDCD was that it encodes 20 bit sampling.

The disks did sound very good, and I wonder if anyone has any info about this.

-Phil
post #25268 of 26597
I have been having BD audio output troubles. I put my receiver input on BD then press play. The discs tray closes, loads, and plays but no sound. I have to completely turn the unit off and try again which usually gives me sound. This wasn't happening when I first got the unit. I'm using the hdmi connection and my receiver is Marantz 8003. It has no problems with audio from my other sources.
post #25269 of 26597
HDCD encodes 20 bits into the 16 bits so the Oppo is reporting correctly. Been a while but I don't think HDCD ever worked over the network.
post #25270 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

HDCD encodes 20 bits into the 16 bits so the Oppo is reporting correctly. Been a while but I don't think HDCD ever worked over the network.

1) Does this mean that the Oppo is merely reporting the bit-depth of the container, rather than of the decoded file inside it? If so, why bother - since all Redbook-compatible CDs have the same container format?

2) Why does the Oppo care which path an audio file took in getting to its decoder circuitry?
post #25271 of 26597
^ You will have to ask Oppo smile.gif But HDCD was kind of a kludge in general a clever hack none the less.
post #25272 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

Interesting experimental discoveries about HDCD playback that I made last night:

It appears that the 93 will not recognize as HDCD networked FLACs made from an HDCD disk, though it will recognize as HDCD the same FLACs burned to CD and inserted in the disk drawer - even with CD-Text added via a cue file.

This makes my networked jukebox a little less attractive - it works fine with regular CDs and even with 5.1 96/24 and stereo 192/24 FLACs, just not with HDCD FLACs.

The side benefit, however, is that CD-Text disks made with a cue file by ImgBurn are not only recognized as HDCD by the Oppo but the Oppo also displays the Artist, Track, and Album tags (but not the cover art thumbnails I added using MP3Tag).

This makes the homemade disks more functional than the original HDCDs they were ripped from, which don't include the CD-Text tags!

PS On both the original HDCDs and my homemade CD-Text copies, the Oppo reports that they're HDCDs, but that the individual tracks are "44.1/16b" - though I had thought that the whole point of HDCD was that it encodes 20 bit sampling.

The disks did sound very good, and I wonder if anyone has any info about this.

-Phil

Phil,

I have several HDCD's that I have ripped using foobar to flac and stream via Twonky from my NAS to the -93 and they all come through in HDCD format on my Denon pre/pro. I just tried them again to be sure and the HDCD lights up on the front panel so I am assuming the 4 extra HDCD bits are making their way to the pre/pro correctly. Now, whether the Oppo will "display" it as an HDCD I would not know (and I am not even sure how I would check this on a streamed source) but it does seem to be parsing the data through to my pre/pro in the right format. I have my NAS directory structured so that I have a separate directory for CDs, HDCDs, etc..

Will
post #25273 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Phil,

I have several HDCD's that I have ripped using foobar to flac and stream via Twonky from my NAS to the -93 and they all come through in HDCD format on my Denon pre/pro. I just tried them again to be sure and the HDCD lights up on the front panel so I am assuming the 4 extra HDCD bits are making their way to the pre/pro correctly. Now, whether the Oppo will "display" it as an HDCD I would not know (and I am not even sure how I would check this on a streamed source) but it does seem to be parsing the data through to my pre/pro in the right format. I have my NAS directory structured so that I have a separate directory for CDs, HDCDs, etc..

Will

I'm referring to the Oppo's front-panel display and what it puts on the screen of your projector or TV while playing an audio file: the image of a record-changer with track info and the album-cover (if a jpeg is embedded in the file as a track tag).

It sounds like you're bitstreaming your audio to your Denon pre/pro and not using the Oppo to decode the audio - I use the 93's analog outputs for everything, since my AVR is an excellent pre-HDMI Yamaha RX-V457, which I feed from my Oppo with a six RCA cable.bundle from Bluejeans Cable..

Phil
post #25274 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ Uh, do you really have all that much 720p/24 material in your collection of Blu-ray copies?

720p24 is quite popular for copies of Bluray material, so I hear: it's good enough resolution for most people who have smallish TVs, sit further away than the recommended immersive distance or have eyesight not quite up there with the 20/20 of the young'uns.

In any case, whatever crippling is being done, whether by Oppodigital or their suppliers or "masters", it is all being targeted at copies of material in whatever format that copy happens to be in: mkv just happens to be one of the most widely adopted containers and so has become a target. The Oppo is not simply a shiny disc player, only ever used for 1080p24 material.
post #25275 of 26597
^ I know this isn't the point you are making, but it certainly strikes me as odd to be worried about cadence judder, a minor impairment, when you would be putting the content through both a down scaling pass (in the rip to 720p/24) and an upscaling pass (to get 1080p/24 on the HDMI cable.

Anyway, the firmware is what it is. The fix for 720p upscaling comes in the newer firmware.
--Bob
post #25276 of 26597
Hi all

I am looking at upgrading my BD player and have the option of either the Oppo 103 or at half the price a secondhand 93, i was wondering are there any video quality differences or audio differences between the 2 to make it worth going the 103?

4K will not do anything for me at this stage and neither will 3D for that matter
post #25277 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenncol View Post

Hi all

I am looking at upgrading my BD player and have the option of either the Oppo 103 or at half the price a secondhand 93, i was wondering are there any video quality differences or audio differences between the 2 to make it worth going the 103?

4K will not do anything for me at this stage and neither will 3D for that matter



I have the 93 and haven't heard/seen the 103 but I've heard a few guys say they thought they both had very similiar AV quality. I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a good used 93, I think it's a great payer. My opinion.
post #25278 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenncol View Post

Hi all

I am looking at upgrading my BD player and have the option of either the Oppo 103 or at half the price a secondhand 93, i was wondering are there any video quality differences or audio differences between the 2 to make it worth going the 103?

4K will not do anything for me at this stage and neither will 3D for that matter

I have both a 93 and 103. Both are near if not equal in audio and video quality. Your display and/or audio gear would have to be pretty high end to notice a difference. The main reason I don't have two 103s is I like the fact that the 93 is NOT Cinavia capable. I like many of the 103 upgrades however and utilize many of them: its speed, HDMI input/output - video processing, continued updates for disc compatibility, streaming options, DSM and other network enhancements to name but a few.. So, if lack of Cinavia is a desire and/or if the differences spelled out for ya in the 103 thread aren't important to you, spend less and get the 93. It will beat any BD player especially if found in the $250 price range.

Cheers
post #25279 of 26597
Playlists: A couple of basic questions.

I reviewed the manual and the first 50 of 124 hits for 'playlist,' none of which addressed my questions.

Navigation: Eventually I'll have over 300 titles on one 2TB external drive. Is the only way to move around among the list of titles is to use the up/down page (or up/down buttons)? With it showing so few titles per page, that's a lot of uping and downing, especially if you are creating a playlist not in alphabetical order. Too bad the titles are not numbered so we could enter a number instead of slow-scrolling.

Editing: I could not find a way to remove a title from the playlist. Is there? I was expecting the red button to remove frown.gif . Also, I see no way to add a title in the middle of other titles.

With the Oppo selling itself as a media player, I'm a little disappointed it its basic functionality, unless I'm missing something.
post #25280 of 26597
Thread Starter 
The player was not really designed to use the Playlist functionality as the Playlists are not permanent. This is why files can't be deleted, rearranged or otherwise saved. It was designed for you to make a quick playlist for that power cycle and then to turn off the player when you were done.
post #25281 of 26597
^^Thanks Neuro. I was hoping I missed some trick or something.
post #25282 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglenn View Post

^^Thanks Neuro. I was hoping I missed some trick or something.

If you want more robust playlist capability and file indexing and navigation functionality, a DLNA server is required. There are many that work well with the Oppo, I use Foobar, MediaMonkey, and Twonky depending on the media files and what I want to accomplish. I've also been experimenting with MinimServer which is an audio-only media server that has some nice features.
post #25283 of 26597
hello everyone. I haven't read through this entire thread, but had a professional calibrator here yesterday to do my audio and visual calibration. Not sure if this has been touched on or not, but my oppo was set to "bitstream" by myself when I set it up as per the owners manual, since my Onkyo receiver can decode the dolby master audio/TrueHD ect....Connected to my Tv via HDMI 1 (video) and my receiver via HDMI 2(audio).
He actually changed my audio setting to LPCM via the HDMI and set my receiver to multichannel. The sound actually seems smoother (along with dialing in my receiver). Reason being that the Oppo has a far superior decoding capability of the dolby stuff than the Onkyo. He says its partly due to the Oppo having a dedicated "area" to do this wheras the Onkyo splits up many tasks. Anybody else have theirs this way?? May want to swap it and check it out. Just an FYI because I never would have done this myself, but I can't argue with thousands of dollars of audio equipment.wink.gif
post #25284 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrjnky View Post

hello everyone. I haven't read through this entire thread, but had a professional calibrator here yesterday to do my audio and visual calibration. Not sure if this has been touched on or not, but my oppo was set to "bitstream" by myself when I set it up as per the owners manual, since my Onkyo receiver can decode the dolby master audio/TrueHD ect....Connected to my Tv via HDMI 1 (video) and my receiver via HDMI 2(audio).
He actually changed my audio setting to LPCM via the HDMI and set my receiver to multichannel. The sound actually seems smoother (along with dialing in my receiver). Reason being that the Oppo has a far superior decoding capability of the dolby stuff than the Onkyo. He says its partly due to the Oppo having a dedicated "area" to do this wheras the Onkyo splits up many tasks. Anybody else have theirs this way?? May want to swap it and check it out. Just an FYI because I never would have done this myself, but I can't argue with thousands of dollars of audio equipment.wink.gif

Jeff knows audio and I would certainly follow his advice in this area. Congrats on the "upgrade" to your sound.
post #25285 of 26597
TWONKY BEAM for Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by scolumbo View Post

If you want more robust playlist capability and file indexing and navigation functionality, a DLNA server is required. There are many that work well with the Oppo, I use Foobar, MediaMonkey, and Twonky depending on the media files and what I want to accomplish. I've also been experimenting with MinimServer which is an audio-only media server that has some nice features.

Being on a Mac, I'd choose Twonky, actually TWONKY BEAM since I will use my Kindle Fire (my computer is in a different room). Does Twonky Beam interface with the '93? The product description talks only about accessing files off the Internet, not local access.

I will have one hard drive connected to the '93 via USB. I don"t understand something. Will I manually enter info on the kindle so that I see, on the kindle, the file list of the attached USB hard drive?

Anyone here use that app on their Kindle? If important, I have the Kindle Fire (not HD).
post #25286 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwrjnky View Post

hello everyone. I haven't read through this entire thread, but had a professional calibrator here yesterday to do my audio and visual calibration. Not sure if this has been touched on or not, but my oppo was set to "bitstream" by myself when I set it up as per the owners manual, since my Onkyo receiver can decode the dolby master audio/TrueHD ect....Connected to my Tv via HDMI 1 (video) and my receiver via HDMI 2(audio).
He actually changed my audio setting to LPCM via the HDMI and set my receiver to multichannel. The sound actually seems smoother (along with dialing in my receiver). Reason being that the Oppo has a far superior decoding capability of the dolby stuff than the Onkyo. He says its partly due to the Oppo having a dedicated "area" to do this wheras the Onkyo splits up many tasks. Anybody else have theirs this way?? May want to swap it and check it out. Just an FYI because I never would have done this myself, but I can't argue with thousands of dollars of audio equipment.wink.gif
Jeff Meier most certainly knows audio. smile.gif

Our Denon 3806 didn't do lossless codec conversion, so I was using LPCM when Jeff first calibrated our audio. He came back this past December to recalibrate our audio with the new Denon 3312. He left the OPPO outputting LPCM. The general OPPO wisdom is that there is no difference between bitstream and LPCM unless the AVR has a problem.

Some people prefer bitstream because they like to see their AVR screen confirming the input signal. wink.gif
post #25287 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Some people prefer bitstream because they like to see their AVR screen confirming the input signal. wink.gif

Others prefer bitstream because it allows their receivers to apply Dolby ProLogic IIx (or IIz) or EQ processing that's not available on PCM input signals.
post #25288 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Some people prefer bitstream because they like to see their AVR screen confirming the input signal. wink.gif

Others prefer bitstream because it allows their receivers to apply Dolby ProLogic IIx (or IIz) or EQ processing that's not available on PCM input signals.
My understanding is that the first step any AVR takes with a bitstream digital signal it to convert it to LPCM which is also digital. My Denon receivers very definitely perform EQ processing on LPCM digital input. In my limited AVR experience, and from reading OPPO threads, my understanding is that if the input is analog, the signal has to be converted back to digital for processing to take place. If there is a restriction on LPCM digital input, I've missed it. eek.gifsmile.gif
post #25289 of 26597
It's more likely the limitations will be on Bitstream input.

For example, there was a period where AVRs with Room Correction could not apply that if the input was DTS-HD MA Bitstream -- basically because they did not have the horsepower to BOTH decode the DTS-HD MA AND process the Room Correction.

Think of LPCM as the "simplest" form of digital audio. It's not compact -- that's what Bitstreams are for -- but it doesn't take extra processing. In fact, most audio processing in home equipment is performed digitally using LPCM, so if the audio is already LPCM you are ahead of the game in terms of allocating processor power.

The main advantage of Bitstream is that it is compressed -- it takes up less space on disc and less bit rate to read off the disc.
--Bob
post #25290 of 26597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

It's more likely the limitations will be on Bitstream input.

For example, there was a period where AVRs with Room Correction could not apply that if the input was DTS-HD MA Bitstream -- basically because they did not have the horsepower to BOTH decode the DTS-HD MA AND process the Room Correction.

Think of LPCM as the "simplest" form of digital audio. It's not compact -- that's what Bitstreams are for -- but it doesn't take extra processing. In fact, most audio processing in home equipment is performed digitally using LPCM, so if the audio is already LPCM you are ahead of the game in terms of allocating processor power.

The main advantage of Bitstream is that it is compressed -- it takes up less space on disc and less bit rate to read off the disc.
--Bob



So are you saying set the Oppo to LPCM instead of bitstream if using Audyssey or other room correction?
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