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Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 845

post #25321 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ These days, Secondary Audio is used for some (but not all) Picture in Picture Commentary tracks and for Menu Sound Effects. It's only ever found on Blu-ray discs. The way Blu-ray works, if a disc has ANY Secondary Audio, and Secondary Audio is enabled in the player, then the player has to decode the primary track EVEN IF the user hasn't actually chosen any playback options that use Secondary Audio. (Technically this is because BD-Java code on the disc might start up Secondary Audio without giving the player any warning -- Blu-ray certification tests exist for this.)

With Bitstream output set in the 93/95, the player then has to RE-encode the audio back into a Bitstream for output. No consumer gear has the horsepower to encode a lossless Bitstream on the fly, so a lossy Bitstream format is used. It's the highest bit rate lossy Bitstream but still lossy. It's also a 5.1 Bitstream, even if the primary audio is 7.1 or 2.0.

SO, if you are using Bitstream output you should leave Secondary Audio OFF except when you actually WANT to use a disc feature that needs it.

For LPCM output on the other hand you can just leave it ON.

If there's no actual Secondary Audio being mixed in, then the decoded LPCM is output unmolested.

If there IS Secondary Audio being mixed in, then the mix settings imposed by the disc typically attenuate the primary track while Secondary Audio is happening, so the quality is not really relevant. But Secondary Audio is just stereo 16-bit, so it mixes in easily.

SO, if you use LPCM output in the 93/95 you can leave Secondary Audio ON. And then choose to hear it or not via the choices you make on the disc itself.
--Bob



Thanks for the explanation Bob.
post #25322 of 26600
I've found a good solution to be HDMI output Auto (with Secondary Audio On). In this case the player will normally decode Blu-ray with DTS HD tracks to PCM but if the disk or track is just a simple DD5.1 or 2.0 then this is output as-is bitstreamed for the amp to decode and apply Pro Logic II or other processing.
post #25323 of 26600
Hi guys,

I thought the 93 will read NTFS formated drives. So why is my player unable to read my new WD 2TB drive? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks.
- Ben
post #25324 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Hi guys,

I thought the 93 will read NTFS formated drives. So why is my player unable to read my new WD 2TB drive? Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks.
- Ben



If using esata it is not hot swappable, you'll have to turn the HD on a minute or two before the Oppo. Also I know it will read up to 2TB's but has problems with certain HD's, maybe someone else can elaborate. Are you running the latest firmware?
Edited by comfynumb - 6/30/13 at 8:33am
post #25325 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

If using esata it is not hot swappable, you'll have to turn the HD on a minute or two before the Oppo. Also I know it will read up to 2TB's but has problems with certain HD's, maybe someone else can elaborate. Are you running the latest firmware?

Thanks for responding, comfynumb. The HDD is USB connected, so there's no way to power it up before the Oppo. Yes, am running the latest firmware.
I hope someone who's familiar with the WD "Passport" HDD can help.
- Ben
post #25326 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Thanks for responding, comfynumb. The HDD is USB connected, so there's no way to power it up before the Oppo. Yes, am running the latest firmware.
I hope someone who's familiar with the WD "Passport" HDD can help.
- Ben



That's a popular hard drive, someone has to know about it on here. Sorry I couldn't help more. I know the 93 can't read certain files and formats so maybe that's it. I'm using a 1.5 TB OWC Mercury connected by esata and all files saved to FLAC and the 93 reads and plays them perfectly.
Edited by comfynumb - 6/30/13 at 10:42am
post #25327 of 26600
I use that same HD and have had no issues with them

if you have the latest firmware you will not be able to see ISO files..

you should be able to see mkv files or AVCHD folder structure or wave files..



Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Thanks for responding, comfynumb. The HDD is USB connected, so there's no way to power it up before the Oppo. Yes, am running the latest firmware.
I hope someone who's familiar with the WD "Passport" HDD can help.
- Ben
post #25328 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Thanks for responding, comfynumb. The HDD is USB connected, so there's no way to power it up before the Oppo. Yes, am running the latest firmware.
I hope someone who's familiar with the WD "Passport" HDD can help.
- Ben

You haven't clearly stated what happens when you connect the HDD to the Oppo, but let's assume the player does not recognize it at all. There should be a USB icon displayed in the upper right corner of the screen when the drive is being detected or when the player is booting up if its already connected. After that is complete, you should see the drive under the "Music" "Photo" and "Movie" icons in the home screen. If not, then the drive cannot be read by the player.

I've seen a couple reports of HDDs coming formatted with GPT partitions even when they are 2TB or smaller, so that's the first thing to rule out if the drive cannot be read.
post #25329 of 26600
After my new setting changes I'm
watching Oz the great and powerful. Although the main audio was DTS 7.1 I'm set up in 5.1 but it's never been a problem before, my pre/pro just makes the adjustment. This time it switched to a standard mode and would not even switch into DD let alone DTS. Is it because I switched the output to LPCM?


Ok I switched it back to bitstream and the DTS MA is working. I don't get it, what are the advantages of LPCM? Should I just use LPCM for music and bitstream for movies?
Edited by comfynumb - 6/30/13 at 4:36pm
post #25330 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Ok I switched it back to bitstream and the DTS MA is working. I don't get it, what are the advantages of LPCM? Should I just use LPCM for music and bitstream for movies?
If you want to hear any of the disc's menu sounds or secondary audio features, you have to let the player decode the audio and mix in the new elements. Then it comes out as PCM.
post #25331 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

If you want to hear any of the disc's menu sounds or secondary audio features, you have to let the player decode the audio and mix in the new elements. Then it comes out as PCM.



Ok I gotcha thanks.
Edited by comfynumb - 6/30/13 at 6:59pm
post #25332 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

After my new setting changes I'm
watching Oz the great and powerful. Although the main audio was DTS 7.1 I'm set up in 5.1 but it's never been a problem before, my pre/pro just makes the adjustment. This time it switched to a standard mode and would not even switch into DD let alone DTS. Is it because I switched the output to LPCM?


Ok I switched it back to bitstream and the DTS MA is working. I don't get it, what are the advantages of LPCM? Should I just use LPCM for music and bitstream for movies?

Comfy, it's really very simple. The amp only knows what on-disk format the audio is being decoded from if the amp is the one doing the decoding via bitstream. If the Oppo is doing the decoding and sending LPCM to the amp, the amp only knows that it's getting LPCM audio - not what format was decoded by the Oppo.

The Oppo does a first-rate job of decoding the audio - the major operational difference from your standpoint is that you'd find out which audio format on the disk you're using not by looking at the amp but by using the Oppo's onscreen Info display, since the amp will only know that it's getting LPCM.

The advantages of sending LPCM are (1) the ability to leave disk secondary audio available without losing quality on the principal soundtrack, (2) reducing the amp's workload, and (3) avoiding copy-protection caused audio dropouts (these last two may well be related).

If I had an HDMI-capable amp that didn't have a multichannel analog input, I'd set the Oppo to send LPCM and leave it there. If I had an HDMI-capable amp that did have a multichannel analog input, I'd hook it up both ways (since I already have the analog cable bundle) and give both methods a listen.

I doubt I'd ever choose to bitstream.

Phil
Edited by Philnick - 6/30/13 at 10:12pm
post #25333 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

After my new setting changes I'm
watching Oz the great and powerful. Although the main audio was DTS 7.1 I'm set up in 5.1 but it's never been a problem before, my pre/pro just makes the adjustment. This time it switched to a standard mode and would not even switch into DD let alone DTS. Is it because I switched the output to LPCM?


Ok I switched it back to bitstream and the DTS MA is working. I don't get it, what are the advantages of LPCM? Should I just use LPCM for music and bitstream for movies?

If I had an HDMI-capable amp that didn't have a multichannel analog input, I'd set the Oppo to send LPCM and leave it there. If I had an HDMI-capable amp that did have a multichannel analog input, I'd hook it up both ways (since I already have the analog cable bundle) and give both methods a listen.

I doubt I'd ever choose to bitstream.


Phil
... and a lot of us do the same thing. smile.gif
post #25334 of 26600
Would appreciate some help. Just got back into my dedicated theater after another family was using it. I have a Onkyo TX-NR709 receiver and an Epson PowerLite Pro Cinema 6010 projector. Beautiful system and the picture is wonderful on DirecTV feed. The image for my Oppo BDP93 is also crystal clear. But it is stretched vertically. So when I bring up the Oppo menu, the navigation buttons at the bottom are mostly cut off, and I can see that something at the top is as well. The question is, where is the image going bad? I suspect the Oppo, because when I don't have a disk in it, and the Oppo logo shows, and I then bring up the menu, it is normal. But as soon as I put in a disk - Blu-ray or DVD, doesn't matter - the people are elongated and the menu is stretched vertically as well.

The aspect ratio is set to 16:9 Wide Auto. The resolution is set to 1080p. Tried changing those settings. Nothing helped.

Thanks for your help.
post #25335 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson View Post


The aspect ratio is set to 16:9 Wide Auto. The resolution is set to 1080p. Tried changing those settings. Nothing helped.

Thanks for your help.
I'm using the same settings with 1080p24 Output set to OFF. There is probably a setting in your projector that needs changing. Most displays have a setting that produces a pixel by pixel mapping from the source to the panel or screen. If you can identify that setting in your projector's setup menus, it should fix your problem. If that doesn't work, the folks who actually know something will be back after the sun rises. wink.gif
post #25336 of 26600
Is it a known fact that the Dimmer-Dimmer-Dimmer-Mute-N key sequence to change the Blu-ray region works only if no USB thumb-drive is plugged in? I had one plugged in because it brings Oppo to the Home screen automatically if no disc is present, and the key sequence would just not "take", no matter how carefully I pressed the keys or how long I waited after rebooting or completely disconnecting the power cord. On a hunch, I removed the thumb-drive and the key sequence worked immediately. I just removed the disc, entered the key sequence and rebooted and it worked like a charm. Didn't even have to disconnect power at all, or wait any longer than it takes to power off and reboot.

I am on the latest public firmware. Don't remember the exact version right now.
post #25337 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

You haven't clearly stated what happens when you connect the HDD to the Oppo, but let's assume the player does not recognize it at all. There should be a USB icon displayed in the upper right corner of the screen when the drive is being detected or when the player is booting up if its already connected..

So far so good. The USB icon is there at this stage.
Quote:
After that is complete, you should see the drive under the "Music" "Photo" and "Movie" icons in the home screen. If not, then the drive cannot be read by the player.

Clicked on "Music" and the screen says "No disc". So it looks like my Oppo 93 doesn't like my Passport HDD! mad.gif
Quote:
I've seen a couple reports of HDDs coming formatted with GPT partitions even when they are 2TB or smaller, so that's the first thing to rule out if the drive cannot be read.

My WD "Passport" 2TB HDD is NTFS formated.

Perhaps should try my luck with a different brand of HDD. smile.gif

Thanks for your help.
- Ben
post #25338 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

My WD "Passport" 2TB HDD is NTFS formated.

NTFS is the file system. Partitioning (MBR or GPT) is different. The device must be partitioned before you format it with a file system. The -93 supports MBR but not GPT.

Are you on Windows? I forget the utility that will show you the currently partitioning. Changing it requires losing the current contents of the disc.

-Bill
post #25339 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philnick View Post

Comfy, it's really very simple. The amp only knows what on-disk format the audio is being decoded from if the amp is the one doing the decoding via bitstream. If the Oppo is doing the decoding and sending LPCM to the amp, the amp only knows that it's getting LPCM audio - not what format was decoded by the Oppo.

The Oppo does a first-rate job of decoding the audio - the major operational difference from your standpoint is that you'd find out which audio format on the disk you're using not by looking at the amp but by using the Oppo's onscreen Info display, since the amp will only know that it's getting LPCM.

The advantages of sending LPCM are (1) the ability to leave disk secondary audio available without losing quality on the principal soundtrack, (2) reducing the amp's workload, and (3) avoiding copy-protection caused audio dropouts (these last two may well be related).

If I had an HDMI-capable amp that didn't have a multichannel analog input, I'd set the Oppo to send LPCM and leave it there. If I had an HDMI-capable amp that did have a multichannel analog input, I'd hook it up both ways (since I already have the analog cable bundle) and give both methods a listen.

I doubt I'd ever choose to bitstream.

Phil



Hi Phil, thanks for the explanation. The only thing I'm a little fuzzy on is knowing what sound mode I'm actually in when I'm sending LPCM to my pre/pro. Is there a way to still listen to the DTS MA soundtrack from the BD when sending LPCM straight from the 93? I watched Oz on BD last night and my pre/pro said standard mode 3/2/.1 so it was in multi channel. Excuse my ignorance I've been bit-streaming for as long as I remember biggrin.gif


Edit: Ok I see it is on the Oppo's display now and whatever I select in the BD menu is what I get? After all this time seeing the mode just say standard on my pre/pro OSD is what threw me off, and I'm set up in 5.1 and it reads multi channel in 3/4/.1
Edited by comfynumb - 7/1/13 at 5:20am
post #25340 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi Phil, thanks for the explanation. The only thing I'm a little fuzzy on is knowing what sound mode I'm actually in when I'm sending LPCM to my pre/pro. Is there a way to still listen to the DTS MA soundtrack from the BD when sending LPCM straight from the 93? I watched Oz on BD last night and my pre/pro said standard mode 3/2/.1 so it was in multi channel. Excuse my ignorance I've been bit-streaming for as long as I remember biggrin.gif


Edit: Ok I see it is on the Oppo's display now and whatever I select in the BD menu is what I get? After all this time seeing the mode just say standard on my pre/pro OSD is what threw me off, and I'm set up in 5.1 and it reads multi channel in 3/4/.1

I think you've got it now. Like you, I've been using bitstream forever because I liked seeing the display on my AVR. When I switch the Oppo to LPCM output, I just use the Oppo menu system to view and determine what output I have. The longer I use my Anthem MRX the less I rely on it for audio and video processing, letting the Oppo (the stronger component in the chain) do what it does best. Good luck!
post #25341 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

I think you've got it now. Like you, I've been using bitstream forever because I liked seeing the display on my AVR. When I switch the Oppo to LPCM output, I just use the Oppo menu system to view and determine what output I have. The longer I use my Anthem MRX the less I rely on it for audio and video processing, letting the Oppo (the stronger component in the chain) do what it does best. Good luck!


This is what I'm wondering, I have the Marantz AV8801 and it must process the bitstream signal from the Oppo pretty darn good. I don't hear any difference between LPCM and bitstream. I am leaving the 93 set to LPCM though, I want to hear multiple movies and some music this way. I'm assuming if I'm set to LPCM this is what my pre/pro is receiving for music also? Thanks for posting smile.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 7/1/13 at 7:11am
post #25342 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

This is what I'm wondering, I have the Marantz AV8801 and it must process the bitstream signal from the Oppo pretty darn good. I don't hear any difference between LPCM and bitstream. I am leaving the 93 set to LPCM though, I want to hear multiple movies and some music this way. I'm assuming if I'm set to LPCM this is what my pre/pro is receiving for music also? Thanks for posting smile.gif

Not sure about all music, but there is a separate SACD selection for Bitstream or PCM. I don't listen to very many redbook CD's these days. I assume those come out PCM as well. Others will know for sure.
post #25343 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Not sure about all music, but there is a separate SACD selection for Bitstream or PCM. I don't listen to very many redbook CD's these days. I assume those come out PCM as well. Others will know for sure.



Yes I have the SACD output set to PCM. I'm wondering what happens with a regular CD and if the two settings apply.
post #25344 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

NTFS is the file system. Partitioning (MBR or GPT) is different. The device must be partitioned before you format it with a file system. The -93 supports MBR but not GPT.

Are you on Windows? I forget the utility that will show you the currently partitioning. Changing it requires losing the current contents of the disc.

-Bill

Hi Bill,

According to the manual that came with the HDD, it is "formatted as a single NTFS partition". So it should be compatible with the Oppo 93, right?

- Ben
post #25345 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

Hi Bill,

According to the manual that came with the HDD, it is "formatted as a single NTFS partition". So it should be compatible with the Oppo 93, right?

- Ben

No. You still need to know the partition method: MBR or GPT.

GPT won't work on the -93. MBR should; if it's not then we have to investigate further.

-Bill
post #25346 of 26600
It seems very odd that your HDD doesn't work if others have had success with the same one. Damaged USB port? I'd try both. I noticed you said there's no way to power it up before you connect it. USB has limited power output, you are using an external power supply right? Just asking smile.gif
Edited by comfynumb - 7/1/13 at 8:56am
post #25347 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

No. You still need to know the partition method: MBR or GPT.

GPT won't work on the -93. MBR should; if it's not then we have to investigate further.

-Bill

Ok, now I've got to find out whether it's MBR or GPT. I'm using Windows.

- Ben
post #25348 of 26600
Comfynumb and others discussing PCM vs bitstream - movies are mastered as PCM and home AV equipment is engineered to process PCM for tasks such as bass management, room correction, and the digital-analog conversion. Soundtracks that are compressed using codecs such as dts-MA must be decompressed back to PCM. Those codecs only have one purpose - saving space on a disc - working much the same as a zip file.

It does not matter whether the player or the receiver does the decompression. You get the exact same PCM either way. And the receiver does all of the subsequent processing no matter where the decoding is done. When you play a dts-MA track and decode it in the player, your receiver reports getting PCM because the compressed track has already been decompressed by the player.

The one advantage to letting the 93 decode is secondary audio (menu clicks and some PIP commentaries). With player decoding, you get the high res audio along with the added sound. But, there's no sonic advantage either way to the movie itself. One of Bob's earlier posts described a few more esoteric effects related to downmixing of 7.1 content on a 7.1 system configured as 5.1. But, the fundamental takeaway here is that you get the exact same output using either bitstream or PCM from the player. The Oppo does not/cannot do a better job of decoding a compressed track than a receiver does with the same track.
post #25349 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Comfynumb and others discussing PCM vs bitstream - movies are mastered as PCM and home AV equipment is engineered to process PCM for tasks such as bass management, room correction, and the digital-analog conversion. Soundtracks that are compressed using codecs such as dts-MA must be decompressed back to PCM. Those codecs only have one purpose - saving space on a disc - working much the same as a zip file.

It does not matter whether the player or the receiver does the decompression. You get the exact same PCM either way. And the receiver does all of the subsequent processing no matter where the decoding is done. When you play a dts-MA track and decode it in the player, your receiver reports getting PCM because the compressed track has already been decompressed by the player.

The one advantage to letting the 93 decode is secondary audio (menu clicks and some PIP commentaries). With player decoding, you get the high res audio along with the added sound. But, there's no sonic advantage either way to the movie itself. One of Bob's earlier posts described a few more esoteric effects related to downmixing of 7.1 content on a 7.1 system configured as 5.1. But, the fundamental takeaway here is that you get the exact same output using either bitstream or PCM from the player. The Oppo does not/cannot do a better job of decoding a compressed track than a receiver does with the same track.



Thanks for posting. What about with music, does it matter if you set the 93 to LPCM or bitstream? I can't hear any difference, but I'm wondering what my pre/pro does with the signal for music.
post #25350 of 26600
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Yes I have the SACD output set to PCM. I'm wondering what happens with a regular CD and if the two settings apply.

Regular CDs are sent as PCM as well, regardless of those settings - since PCM is the native format for standard CDs, so even if there was an option to bitstream, that's what they are to start with!

Dolby and DTS, in all of their varieties, are ways of compressing PCM soundtracks, some more accurately (lossless) than others (lossy).

LPCM is an acrynum for Linear Pulse Code Modulation. I assume that it's pretty much synonymous with PCM, I first encountered it on multichannel Blu-ray disks, many of which used uncompressed LPCM soundtracks until they needed to fit more onto a disk - but those here more advanced can enlighten us about that.

Phil

PS There is one variant encoding on CDs: HDCD, which is a clever way to fit 20-bit sampling into a standard 16-bit CD, by using a few bits for signalling - but it's still PCM.

The Oppo can decode an HDCD disk if you put it into the disk drawer (though not over a network) if you've enabled HDCD processing in the setup menus. Otherwise, it will send the raw bitstream to an amp, for decoding there - if the amp knows how! (So I guess there is a "bitstream" option for CDs as well!)

Footnote:
The sound for regular CD players is very slightly compromised by this HDCD encoding, in much the same way that FM Stereo compromises the frequency response of FM to send two channels - the stereo "difference" signal (L-R) is sent in the the audio frequency band above 15 KHz. This means that audio has to be shaved off above 15KHz.

Thus, internet radio can actually sound better than FM, even though it's lossily compressed, because it doesn't have to shave off the high frequencies arbitrarily at 15KHz.

Hybrid Digital ("HD") radio takes this even further, sending streaming audio on up to three FM subcarriers.

Second Footnote: If you're bent on networking HDCD disks, look back a few pages in this thread for my tips on creating decoded versions of HDCD disks that can be networked in full fidelity.

Better yet, go here for an even slicker way to do it: Download and extract this zip file and copy all the WAV files ripped from an HDCD into the folder it creates with the two exe files. Click on the convert.exe file and it will create decoded versions of all the files at once. You don't even have to edit the filenames to remove spaces with this version, and it reports out what features of HDCD are used by each track while it's doing its thing. The decoded versions will have the string "24bit" added to the filenames, so you can tell the two versions apart. (Why 24 bit if it's really 20? 24 is a more commonly used container - so it's padded out with zeros for the extra bits.)
Edited by Philnick - 7/1/13 at 2:59pm
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