Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 131

Just set the output to 30 or 36 bit

Qdeo True Color(QTC): Applied to HDMI 1 when a deep color mode is enabled

It seemingly is the intent

Powered by Bit Resolution Expansion, it dynamically expands 8-bit video to use the
full dynamic range offered by 10 and 12 bit displays, eliminating contours while
preserving detail. This process, which we refer to as Qdeo True Color Processing
(QTC), produces a perceived higher dynamic range.

Not "True Color". The HDMI term is, "Deep Color" (and see below).

Setup > Video Setup > HDMI Options > Deep Color

Deep Color OFF is the "normal", 24 bits per pixel video. The 30 and 36 bit choices add the extra bits.

The Dithering choices (available on HDMI 1) add an additional post processing step just prior to output.

For Newbies: Whatever else it is good for, the TERM "Deep Color" should surely win an award as the most misleading marketing term in all of home theater technology. It has nothing whatsoever to do with increasing the range, or saturation, or brilliance of the colors that will be displayed. Rather, it has to do with refining the step size between adjacent colors. More bits per pixel allows a finer step size. Whether you can see a difference (for better or for worse) is another story altogether as discussed above. And remember, no commercial video content has more than 24 bit video -- even true for Blu-ray.
--Bob

I think you're missing something here. 'QDEO True Color' is a proprietary QDEO processing algorithm that isn't just a basic "output as deep color". Its a more sophisticated algorithm that actually smoothens out banding and interpolates colors to the desired 30 or 36 bit output. It doesn't just pad the data with 0's. It is a Marvell QDEO created interpolation algorithm

No, I'm not missing something. The QDEO "True" processing (gosh, they must pay people to come up with these marketing terms), is simply the way they generate those extra low order bits to fill the "Deep" 30 or 36 bit HDMI signal -- i.e. rather than just using padding zeroes.

Now let's be clear, I'm not saying the QDEO algorithm isn't a good thing. I'm saying that not all AVRs/displays that accept a 30 or 36 bit signal will show an improved result when fed this video. Try it on YOUR equipment and see which setting works best. This is WHY the Oppo gives you the choices.
--Bob

Its funny, I have an 8-bit monitor and both those images are in 8-bit, yet I can see the results. I realize its an example picture, but the point is its far less noticeable of a difference than those pictures show. Also, I wouldn't want the chip guessing at what areas are banded color and what areas are really supposed to be a distinct separation of colors.

One area I think Deep Color might actually be usable is in DVD/SD upscaling. For example, if you have 2 pixels next to each other that are values 200 and 201, then when you upscale you have to generate new pixels in-between. So with 8-bit, you have to pick one of the 2 and duplicate it, but with 10 bit you could get values 200.25, 200.5, and 200.75 to create a smoother upscale. Ie, it can upscale the color resolution the same that it upscales the pixel resolution. However, its very difficult to tell if the QDEO chip is even doing this in the first place when it upscales, and none of their advertisements are clear enough to tell either. Bottom line: there's no conclusive evidence the Oppo upscales color resolution on SD with Deep Color setting on.

But again, even if it does, it might not even be noticable in real world material because those values are so close together.

Most people can see the difference between video black (16), one above black (17), and two above black (18) when these values are shown next to each other like on a test disc, so its arguable that the benefit is noticable under test conditions. But with real-world material, in normal viewing conditions frames changing at 24 fps, the benefit becomes very small, IMO.

Hi mustangs, Bob, et al.

I was in fact referring to True Color, not Deep Color. I'm aware of the distinction. I guess it would make sense that True Color is enabled anytime Deep Color is. Of course, my question stemmed from the fact that most other players out there simply pad zeroes (so I've been led to believe, anyway).

Thanks folks.

With regards to qedo vs abt 2015 vs realta, I am really starting to like the qedo more I watch.

Honestly at first I thought it looked bad because it is softer. But then I started noticing details and very excellent depth compared to the others.

I will do some more comparisons tonight.

How long until you post your writeup? Im looking forward to it

Yeah, its all very obscure. But I think we both understood True color is Marvell's interpolation algorithm to achieve "Deep Color"

Right. And Oppo engineering also has a significant role in this, selecting when and how to employ these tools.

One of the reasons the 83 looked so darn good was that Oppo had learned how to squeeze the very best out of the ABT processor. Expect similar magic in their use of the QDEO -- after a bit of learning curve.

It's the difference between a chef and popping something in the microwave.

My point though, was most people have no way of knowing what goes on inside their AVR or display. Just like some equipment works better with either RGB or YCbCr input, some equipment that accepts Deep Color video will work better if you don't use it -- perhaps by design choice or perhaps just due to bugs in the AVR or display.

So TRY it. And trust your eyes when checking calibration charts and when viewing real content. Pick the settings that look best to you. Don't just assume 36 bit MUST be better with your equipment.

And also expect differences between HDMI 1 and 2, since the QDEO only processes the output for HDMI 1.
--Bob

Thanks, Bob and mustangs. That was an informative exchange!

Hello,
I definitely think that we will also benefit from the continuing development on the BDP-95 in respect to bringing out the best in the Qdeo Processor.

Also, I have spent a decent amount of time comparing the picture from the BDP-93 compared to the PS3 and absolutely think the OPPO holds the edge.

A major Design Parameter of the Marvell Qdeo Kyoto Chip is to make the best out of less than pristine content. This pretty much sums up Netflix content that is non HD.

Without question, the PS3 currently has a major advantage in being the only to currently offer Dolby Digital Plus, but this soon will not be an exclusive and hopefully the OPPO will offer it soon.
Cheers,
AD

Yes, there are already a number of comparisons in this thread.

I cannot tell any difference between 'Off', '30 bits', and '36 bits' modes. My Samsung C8000 display and Denon 4311 support all of those modes. In my AVR I see the number of bits per channel changing from '8 bits in, 8 bits out' to '10 bits in, 10 bits out' or '12 bits in, 12 bits out' (depending on the mode selected).

Are we even sure that Oppo has code in the firmware to take advantage of the 'True Color' features yet (or if they ever will for that matter)?

I think we are at the mercy of Oppo as to what features they implement (or code for).

Thank you for this very good information.

Right now I am using the default settings (no file tweaks), but I am using the "By Folder" navigation tree option. Even with your changes I cannot get everything to show up in the Oppo. For some reason I get empty and/or nonexistent folders when files should be there. Folders that contain FLACs are the biggest culprit.

Any suggestions? What navigation tree option are you using? "Classic media view", "By Folder", "Advanced media view", ... for the Oppo? What is your default navigation tree setting?

Can you tell me what adding the entry for Oppo in the client.db file does?

What Qdeo video processing features are implemented in the BDP-93?

The following features from the Qdeo Extended Technology Brief are implemented in the BDP-93:

3D Video Noise Reduction (VNR): Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Noise Reduction levels 4-8
3D De-interlacing: Automatically applied to any interlaced content.
(Please note that the above "3D" reference is not related to the Blu-ray 3D format. Here 3D means the three dimensions (X, Y, time) for per-pixel video processing. Basically the video processor checks adjacent pixels and frames to make a processing decision.)
Nonlinear scaling: Not in use. However linear scaling is used for video up-conversion.
2D Edge Enhancement: Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Sharpness
Adaptive Contrast Enhancement (ACE): Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Contrast Enhancement
Intelligent Color Remapping (ICR): Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Color Enhancement
Compression Artifact Reduction (CAR): Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Noise Reduction levels 1-3
Qdeo True Color(QTC): Applied to HDMI 1 when a deep color mode is enabled
Natural Depth Expansion (NDE): This is just another name for the detail and edge enhancement function. Video Setup - Picture Adjustment - Sharpness

I was planning to get the BD-93 and hook it to a high-end audio DAC for Red book CD, SACD and DVD-A. Does this 16bits/44.1KHz limitation apply also to SACD/DVD-A source?

And I'm not sure that SACD and DVD-A can be streamed to the Coaxial/Optical digital output...

^^

Hmmm...

Has anyone noticed any differences between the the Deep Color options on HDMI 1? Examples?

It probably is far more subtle than the example given.

Or maybe there needs to be visible banding for QTC to have a noticeable effect

counsil,
After adding the above info to the client.db file, you will need to shut twonky down and then restart it. After doing that you can start the Twonky control panel, click on media receivers and select oppo from the device drop down box ( matched to the MAC and IP address for your oppo). On the right most drop down, select "simple default navigation". Click on save changes. I found this to work very well as far as being able to drill down through the trees of my files, the only problem being that if I added new albums or videos to those folders while viewing from or listening from those folders on the oppo, when I tried to back out it would come up with a blank folder again. I could correct this by power cycling the oppo or sometimes by clicking on "My Network Search" on the oppo and then clicking the Twonkymedia tab again.

Hope this helps, let me know if I can be of help.

Brief update. Finally installed a new firmware update from Oppo to deal with the handshaking problem we've been having with our Integra DTR-8.8 when streaming DSD off of SACDs. After playing several SACDs so far the problem seems to have been resolved. Leave it to Oppo Service! Still need to figure our the "running noise" problem we're having but Oppo is on it and we're convinced they will come through with a fix.

Under clear and cold streaming Netflix Seattle skies, Gill

Speak of the devil.

What say you about QDEO's true color and whether the Kuros can take advantage of this processing to reduce/eliminate banding?

How would people rate the player as a music streamer?
How is the interface in everyday use?
Is as good as for example a Apple TV?

Your questions have been, mostly, answered around several (200 to 400) hundred posts ago. If I recall, it does an excellent job, if the format and files are compatible. This thread moves too fast (around 60 post per day) for me to keep track. However, that is not its primary function, as you undoubtedly know.

I suggest that you "Download This Thread" (using the "Thread Tools", in the thread header) and do a search off-line (since it is easier to do a search of a single text file on your PC). The basic problem is that you have to make sure that the music files are in one of the compatible formats and in a file structure that the BDP-93 can recognize.

My 93 is using the 36-bit setting with a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD. The Pioneer reports it is seeing a 36-bit signal from the 93. The PQ is excellent!

Ok thanks. One more question. Can you hold the button of the remote down to fast scroll or can you only click one down at a time?

DNice calibrated my Kuro about a year and half ago, after seeing his post about Kuro settings I changed mine from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and turned off Deep Color which had been set to 36 bits. Prior to the change I thought my picture was excellent and after the change I thought my picture was excellent. While playing a movie late yesterday afternoon I played with the settings and personally could not see a difference. Given that I am inclined to return my settings to 4:4:4 with Deep Color set to 36 bits just so I have the ability to take advantage of QDEO's true color feature.
DNice, it would be great if you could share more regarding why you recommend the settings you posted. We crave details/reasons. I am also curious if you ever bought that Oppo 83 that you said you were going to after playing with mine. Maybe its time to buy a 93

Who is the best manufacturer of mod/diy region free kits for Oppo players? So far I've seen Tridane, JVB and one called vtbuss who sell on eBay and plan to have a plug and play mod for the 93 very soon.

3D Blu-ray
Ive tested 7 so far and have about 15 more to test.
Using HDMI 1 from OPPO for video into Sony 52HX909
Using HDMI 2 from OPPO for audio into Onkyo 5007 Reciever
Oppo Firmware is BDP9x-33-1216
Oppo set for 1080p
Bitstreaming audio, hdmi 1 video only
ALL 3D Movies show up as 23.? regardless if 24p is set On, Off, or auto I thought if 24p was set to off the movies should display at 29.? But ALL played at 24
Alice in Wonderland (Release Version) Zoom YES
A Christmas Carol Zoom YES
Clash of the Titians Zoom YES
Cloudy with a chance of meatballs (Sony Promo version) Zoom YES
Despicable Me Zoom YES
How to train your Dragon (Samsung Exclusive) Zoom NO
Step-up 3 Zoom YES
These to test/ add to list as I have time.
The last Airbender Zoom YES
Legend of the Guardians Zoom YES
Monster House Zoom YES
My Bloody Valentine Zoom NO
Polar Express Zoom YES
Shrek 1-4 (Samsung Exclusive) Zoom NO
IMAX Deep Sea Zoom YES
IMAX Dinosuars Alive
Imax Under the Sea Zoom YES
IMAX Wild Oceans Zoom YES
IMAX 3D Triple Feature (Samsung Exclusive) Zoom YES
Avatar (Panasonic Exclusive) Zoom NO
Ice Age (Panasonic Exclusive) Zoom NO
Coraline (Panasonic Version) Zoom YES
Open Season Zoom YES
Monsters vs Aliens (Samsung Exclusive) Zoom NO
Bolt (Sony Exclusive)
Resident Evil Zoom YES
Cats & Dogs

Adam