Official OPPO BDP-93 Owner's Thread - Page 189

Pinarello,
Your BDP-93EU, knows where to look on the Internet for applicable "official" firmware updates -- I.e., the European versions. However, Public Beta firmware won't show up this way to avoid confusing owners who aren't aware it is Beta.

Check the Customer Support tab on the Oppo UK site for news on when it becomes available for manual download from their site, or just keep reading this thread as the news will likely be posted here as well.
--Bob

I'm not able to duplicate that here, files are listed in the order they were created.

Do you mean that *with* the new firmware files are still not being listed alphabetically but in order of creation ?
I was really hoping Oppo would have fixed this in the new firmware...

Still not working:

• Demo Mode
• Zoom on BD-J
• 1/2 zoom
• file sorting

-Bill

I've only had the 93 a week or so but have noticed dropouts in audio when playing FLAC via the USB port (rear). I have ripped the same FLAC to DVD-Audio and do not get the dropouts when playing the DVDA so there is something in either my chain or the 93 that is causing this. I am using a new SEAGATE EXPANSION external HDD and it is playing pcm. So far, I have only noticed it on the Beatles 24b flac but I haven't played much of anything else yet.

It is annoying because of the dropout but also because it starts back with a pop too which "ain't doin my speakers no good".

It almost sounds like some kind of flac decode error or HDMI issue.

It sounds GREAT with the exception of this small issue.

Any one have suggestions?

Did you try the new firmware posted just yesterday?

Else, confirm the behavior with the file on a USB stick and offer OPPO an example.

-Bill

I called Oppo the other day questioning the issue. The response was that it is Marvell's problem and they are trying to get Marvell to sort it out. Oppo used Anchor Bay's VRS on the 83, which was able to Zoom/stretch BD-Java. They said that Marvell's Qdeo is currently unable to do it, something to do with the order of video decoding and video processing, I didn't really understand the explanation but was told if Marvell could find a way for the Qdeo to do "A" before "B" then the Zoom/stretch feature could work on all blu-rays. I was just hoping that this firmware had the fix.

-Sean

Hi Bill,

do mkvs in 24p now playback in 24p?
do Apple lossless files (m4a/recognized before but skipped) now work?

thanks

I'll have to look at the MKVs again, but as I recall: files with pixel resolution greater than the old standard definition boundary (720x480) will play at 24hz when the frame rate of the source is 24.0. That 23.976hz sources are not treated equivalently is a reported bug.

Apple Lossless: I'll check it again, but I don't expect that will ever be supported. OPPO hasn't said so, has it? Same for WMA lossless.

-Bill

sorry Bill, your are right!

I was not precise, I meant off course the 23,976Hz bug.

As for Apple lossles, these are basicly flac files. Most use iTunes to rip and organize their cds, so I thought it would be easy to implement. The other thing is that .m4a works. And a good thing seems to me that .m4a allpe lossless are being correctly displayed, with title artist etc.; so how hard can it be... (Jeremy Clarkson)

As with the Microsoft proprietary formats, I expect there are licensing restrictions at work here.
--Bob

Thanks Bob - fast and to the point as always

As the release notes point out, this new Public Beta firmware has made good progress on the audio sync error issue. It is eliminated entirely in many cases.

In the cases where there is still an error, the inherent error in the player is now reduced down to about 75ms, which means even fewer people are likely to notice it at all. If you have the ability to add audio delay in your external gear, and detect a problem case, try 75ms added delay.

As before, keep in mind that your external gear may very well be adding its own error, and that certain types of processing may be the culprit. For example, some TVs add error when fed 1080p/24 (instead of /60), and some LCD TVs add error when "motion smoothing" processing is engaged.

And as always, keep in mind that some content comes with its own errors. Even commercially released movies from major studios can have significant errors in some scenes. Error which varies from scene to scene is almost certainly a content problem. Video AHEAD of audio (so that adding audio delay only makes the problem worse) is also almost certainly a content problem. Netflix' streaming content is also known to have audio sync problems baked into some titles. There's no point trying to chase content-based sync error, as it likely will vary from scene to scene and you'll never catch up. Live with it, or watch better authored content.
--Bob

The scaling issues I previously alluded to in the 1216 "official" firmware still exist in the 0126 Public Beta firmware. As before, much of this is subtle, and many won't see anything at all untoward. Let your AVR or TV do scaling for you if you spot a problem and trust the processing in your AVR or TV. I.e., for SD content, use explicit 480p output with "16:9 Wide" (not Wide/Auto). Let your AVR or TV add the pillar box bars for 4:3 SD content. For 720p/60 content (as from Netflix HD streams), use explicit 720p or Source Direct output. In the really rare case of 720p/24 content (never happens with Netflix), I recommend explicit 720p output -- which will result in 720p/60 output since HDMI signal timings don't support 720p/24.

NOTE 1: Netflix' SD streams of 4:3 content are transmitted with embedded pillar box bars. I.e., the stream is already padded out to 16:9 before it reaches the Oppo. The problem is, this means the pillar box bars have been added using SD pixels -- which results in significant loss of horizontal resolution. There's nothing the Oppo (or any other player) can do about this of course, since the content is already damaged before it gets to the player. (The resolution loss is on top of the other image quality issues resulting from Netflix' compression of the SD stream.) Netflix' HD streams of 4:3 content have the pillar box bars embedded using HD pixels, so no loss of horizontal resolution.

NOTE 2: The scaling in your AVR or TV may be even WORSE than the subtle problems in this Public Beta firmware. Even today, some major brand TVs have godawful scaling or even outright bugs. So trust your eyes. If 1080p output looks better to you when playing 480i or 720p content, then by all means stick with that.
--Bob

Workaround for Secretariat (Blu-ray)

I was attempting to watch Secretariat (Blu-ray) last night and found what seems to be an easy way to view the disk. Instead of selecting "Play" from the Main Menu, choose "Scene Selection", select Scene 1, and press Enter. After that, the entire disk played flawlessly.

The issue of choosing an output data format (e.g., RGB Video Level, YCbCr 4:4:4, YCbCr 4:2:2), and video processing options (e.g., Deep Color or Dithering) is made more difficult by the fact that most charts on video calibration discs are very bad at showing off the subtle differences involved. Step charts usually won't show it, and errors in ramp charts usually don't stand out enough to catch the eye.

For folks trying to work this out for themselves, I recommend Chapter 10 in "Ratatouille" Blu-ray. This chapter is computer generated animation of a fog scene and includes numerous examples of sophisticated color and gray scale ramps. If you deliberately misadjust your video settings, the complicated structure that makes up these ramps will become visible (and quite interesting it is, too!), but the thing to keep in mind is that if things are set up "right", you should not be able to see ANY of this structure in normal viewing.

That is, there should be no hint of false contours or structure that moves as the time advances. It should appear smooth and natural.

One particular time code is especially useful. At 31:04, just as Linguini finishes pulling the jar out of frame, you are left with a static view of the sky seen through the fog. This is a very complicated ramp as it changes in width from wide to narrow as it goes from top to bottom, includes both color and gray scale changes, and covers a significant range of gray scale. You can Pause this frame and study it in detail.

If things are "right" it should look completely smooth, with no hint of the complex structure that makes it up.

Note that to get there, your display also needs to be properly calibrated. Errors in Gamma for example (the shape of the response curve between Black and White, or the equivalent for each of Red, Green, and Blue) will make it hard to eliminate the structure. Of course you can easily make the structure go away by "crushing" the black and white ends of the scale, but to get it to go away with proper black and white level settings is a challenge.

And you may very well find that one specific combo of output format and Deep Color setting in the Oppo works best for this. If you find that to be the case, then replay the whole chapter that way (actually, back up a few seconds into the end of the prior chapter to get the whole scene) and check for other instances of complex ramps.

Examples:

The circle of light that wraps around the circular window behind Linguini as he gets on his bike.

The foggy sky over the building across the river as he peddles off down the river path.

The fog rising off the river as the conversation develops.

The errors can be subtle. View this in a darkened room and get up close to the screen. You may NOT see any differences, and thus you are free to use whatever combo of output format and Deep Color setting you like. But if you DO see a difference, I think you'll find the best result here to be a good indicator of the best settings for your gear.

Good luck!
--Bob

So these were NOT Flac files, or what ? Because other users say that the filing problem with Flac files have NOT been resolved with this firmware...

The new firmware has fixed my lip sync problems on both HDMI 1 and 2.

CD

It has nothing to do with FLAC files. The issue of some files/folders not appearing at all (missing files/folders) appears to be fixed.

The issue of files appearing "out of order" has not been fixed because file name sorting is not yet enabled. That is, they will appear in "file creation date" order, meaning the order in which they were added to the disc. This may start off alphabetical when a bunch of files are initially copied to a disc. But that will change over time as files are deleted and added on the disc.

At present there is no way to sort the list so that the files are presented alphabetically, or by size, or any other way you might want to sort them.
--Bob

[EDITED: To correct the default sort order as presented in the current firmware.]

ETA: Heck even that edit, may not be correct. I give up! See the discussion below.

What "other users"? Wouldn't it be appropriate for you to check this yourself and report the results? And yes, I tested with 10,000 FLAC files in 1000 folders. But the type of file is not relevant to sorting/indexing issues.

I disagree. File creation date seems to be the sorting. So far I've had very good results by planning on that. But I do not change folder contents once it's copied to the drive. The sorting seems to be by the date the file is added to the playback drive.

Ah! OK, I stand corrected.
--Bob

yes, maybe. But otherwise it is just a ".m4a" and media file support for ".m4a" is given (comprimated ".m4a" seem to work fine.).

what happens if the 720p/24 (or 23.976) content is upscaled and processed to 1080p? Can it be displayed at correct 24Hz (or 23.976) or will it be displayed at 60Hz?

If it is upscaled to 1080p then the frame rate is preserved (assuming 1080p/24 Auto or On).

In the current firmware (and the Public Beta), Source Direct also outputs 720p/24 content as 1080p/24. That is, it is biased to preserve the frame rate instead of the frame resolution -- it can't preserve both over HDMI. The value of this is under debate.

Explicit 720p output, on the other hand, takes 720p/24 content and outputs 720p/60.
--Bob

It would, once I received my unit. Though I'm holding off for the 95 and since both are supposed to share the same firmware...

So if my audio files are in alphabetical order on my internal hard disk, and I want to copy them to an external one for use with the Oppo, will Windows automatically copy all the folders, folders within folders, files within folders, etc in ALPHABETICAL order ? Is there a way to ensure that ? (Apart from copying them one by one of course )


Well that is good news then indeed ! Hopefully they can add the sorting later on as well.

The BDP-83 FAQ has a section on FAT file system sorting utilities. I don't know if there is something similar for NTFS.

If you use DLNA none of this is relevant. The server handles sorting.

-Bill

Ha, well that's the question. I'd not venture to predict what Windows will do in any given situation. Nor have I tried messing with different scenarios to see what it does. All my music was ripped with the date-created sorting in mind so it's a moot point for me. Of course you can set Windows folder options to show files in modified order, but be aware that Windows may be going on the original creation date, not the date it was put on the drive it's on now.

Confused yet?

I've made sure my ripping tool is ripping in track order, one file at a time so they get written in the same order. I rip them to a folder for that title, then copy the entire folder to the playback drive at once. Windows seems to respect the ordering when it copies and the player eventually orders them in the same way. If I copy a pile of files to the playback drive, windows messes with the ordering, only copying an entire folder seems to do the trick.

But if you want to see what the player will see and do, just look at your files in Windows with sorting set to "modified" and you should be good.

Edited to add: Bill may be right that there will be differences between FAT and NTFS sorting. But so far I get the same file sorting on FAT thumbdrives as I do with the same folders on a NTFS HDD.

We go through this every 18 months or so, in every player thread.

In the OPPO browser, the files are not sorted by any date field. If they seem to be, that is a fortuitous coincidence.

File dates in directory structures are just data fields. You can change the created and modified dates on an existing files with a program, but that will NOT change it's order in the OPPO browser.

Files in directories have a raw, physical order. The order seems to be the order in which the files were created. You can see that this is sometimes by name, sometimes not. Different operating systems and utilities will populate a directory in different ways.

You can show the order files will be displayed in the OPPO browser for both FAT and NTFS with the linux "ls -U" command. For FAT this is the same as the numerical sorting of the "inode" field. On NTFS inode seems to be assigned differently, but I don't know how or why.

-Bill

Whatever the reason, I can mostly control the sorting order in the Oppo based on when they are written to the playback drive. I don't need to know why I can.

I've noticed a several references to scaling problems in the current firmware.
What I haven't found if a clear explanation of the scaling problems. How do they manifest? Does the BDP-93 still compare favorably with other players on the market and how inferior is the scaling to that of the 83?