The Sony VPL VW90ES 3D Owner's Thread - Page 12

Thanks

Joe you are fully aware you have to save several sick days each year to be utilized during the acquisition of major av gear. I think it's in the forum rules...

Do you want to get banned again!?

Thrang

Maybe you can drive up to canada and watch a hockey game with some of these canadian vw90 owners and settle this question once and for all

Fine by me! If I have enough Molson's, I'll see red/green fringing in the beer bubbles...

You'd come all the way up here and drink Molson's?

The reference to Eno in your id, intentional or not, earns you a partial forgiveness, however.

ted

thrang, keep up updated on how the Sony compares to the JVC RS50. Please be brutally honest when comparing the pros and cons of both. Maybe even start a new thread as these two will be the big mainstream 3D projectors that people will be comparing for some time to come.

Intentional

And my choice of molson's was purely for it's name recognition-vaguely comedic effect...I prefer Stella... :-)

I will of course

I have no doubt the rs50 will be fantastic for movies - I've said it before that the hd 750 was great for this. The 85 was a close second, but was better overall because of the motion handling and no fringing.

Here's my prediction:

-I will be stunned by the contrast and color fidelity of the rs
-I will find improvement in motion handling, but not perfect and be frustrated.
-I will find ghosting as I did on the 90, which doesnt seem to bother others
-I will sell the rs50 because others aren't so anal about the motion and fringing issues as I am
-I will stare at my 85 and say, this picture looks great, why did I torture myself and piss away all those shipping charges?
-I will remind myself I knew this was too early for 3d

And by February I will be shopping again...

Of course, I could be wrong about some of this...

Bro...When you first got the Sony, you said you were, "floored" by the 3D picture!...Where did that go?...

Hi chuck

I think I was referring to being floored by the relative brightness, especially with my HP screen, given all the foreboding about how dark things would be. That remains true. But I talked frankly about ghosting quite a bit from then beginning, especially when comparing the Sony and x103s glasses.

Still, that was not my reason for return, and would have not rejected it for that alone - the bad convergence made it impossible to keep, and the motion comparison to the 85 gave me enough pause not to replace at this stage. I know there's some issue as to what occurred with the AVS demo unit of the 90, but fwiw, Jason did pm me today that it was returned for quality issues.

I just may be very sensitive to this fringing issue - I think we all have our sore spots when it comes to being bothered...it's also what you watch. Some people use their projectors exclusively or mostly for film viewing - if I did that, I never would have sold the hd750 for the 85. Hockey is especially demanding for motion, so i may be looking at things a lot of people rarely if ever see.

And finally, while we don't always admit it, we might all gush a bit more right at the start, especially in our desire to post feedback for others and mentally justify our purchase. While I think I was pretty fair about describing things, remember also I didn't see the fringing issue right away as I was dealing with swapping out my avr at the same time, doing multiple 11.2 audyssey pro calibrations, chasing unbalanced hissing issues, and looking mostly at 3d content, which, given the softer, non-sports content, did not reveal the fringing. When I saw it, I snapped it, and posted it...

Anyway, I was trying to invoke a laugh with my bullet points, as it speaks to the sickness we all share in this infirmary... :-)

Well, I'm glad I'm not a dealer...cause some of you guys would drive me to start drinking again... fringing, artifacts, minor misconvergence... Humbug!...I'm one of these weird guys that just adjusts the color, brightness, contrast, Tint, etc...Then I leave it alone!...and actually "watch" the damn thing...lol...

Hey now, no minor misconvergence on mine- it was three or four pixels down in blue, about two up in red, not uniformly, and about three out left/ right in portions also...it was about as crisp as a hooker's mascara!

And if you're in this forum, isn't drinkng a prerequisite?!

Nahh....not really. Only to drunks...errr, I mean drinkers...lol!

Sony should not only pay your shipping charges, they should pay you to keep quiet about such poor quality! That is way out of spec, IIRC the max pixel adjustment is only 2 pixels. Did delivery drop it??

thrang, not to sound like a broken record but the Sony DOES NOT HAVE FRINGING. Your unit was obviously defective. If you set up a youtube account and pm me the password and username, I will take a video with my iphone and post it for you so that you can see that there is not a single trace of fringing while watching hockey with Film Projection Mode 2 and FI set to high. Your projector was probably handled by someone who hates Sony very much and they most likely used your box as a trampoline. Anyway I still look forward to your impression of the RS50 but comments like this:

don't make it seem very promising at all

OT, but I'm really curious. Where the heck did they get 60 volts from? Was it a floating neutral or some other weird problem?

You may be correct, I will see. I was in no happy mood to change things, and I respect what you say about your Sony, but at least at the moment i still believe it is a design tradeoff for brighter light, and perhaps I'm sensitive to that. I spoke to a Sony engineer last night, and he was recognizing the areas of concern I was talking about and about the plausibility of the possible causes I raised. He asked if I would take part in a conference call with other product engineers to discuss further and I said I would...so lets see....if they think it's a one off defect and I'm not pleased with the jvc, I will sell the jvc and have Sony replaced. Will cost me a little more in shipping, but the lack of ability to generally see this stuff before you buy it is frustrating.

If they say that's the way it is, then it becomes the question of which is the better compromise of all features and issues : the 90, the 50, or simply keeping my 85...

I'm not sure that the new JVCs address your (the blue line fringing) issue. I have heard that specific thigs like contouring have been addressed but there is also a noise issue that may have been introduced! This noise is apparently visible in the 10 and 20 grayscales and in pale colors. Could you see this on hockey? I dunno.

My guess is that you are right. If you are happy with your vw85, maybe that is what you should stick to. Buy one of those cheap $500 Acer 3d projectors (that may be better in many ways for 3D than the Sony or the JVC) and buy something substantial when 3D is ready.

Although the real reviews are not yet in, it seems that year's crop is a bit of a let down. I hope I am wrong about that.

You have to give it to Sony. This is good service!

Yes, well, I was not pleased that I could not get one department to tell me who was responsible for the 90.That's still not clear. The Sony web site refers you to the business products division I think - Business says not them, it's consumer. Then they realize the consumer site is directing to business. Then they transferred me to Pro products...Pro said not them..hold on..transferred to some overseas division for...consumer..None would recognize the ES status and the "elevated" support I thought one would receive...I was eventually returned back to Pro. To this day, they are not sure who handles it, but have escalated to engineering which is where I am now.

Oh. I hadn't focused on that.

The trick with customer support is to get past the first line of customer support people. The first line's job is to stop you from getting any customer support. When you are clear of them, you generally have better luck.

More than 1 pixel of MC is enough to have it replaced, yours is totally broken, a very severe MC of 3 or 4 pixels (!!!) is a strong sign the PJ was dropped during transport. It's your Sony authorized reseller you should contact first. I bought a VW50 four years ago, and it had an MC of about 1 pixel, I took it back to the store and they gave me a new one without question.

To assert what the problem is, we need 2 things :
1. A moving test pattern which can actually reproduce your motion problem
2. A grid screenshot of your uncorrectable MC


I tried everything and I am unable to make my VW90 exhibit any motion fringe with my face up to the screen. DFI on/off, FI on/off, whatever. Maybe it appears only with a specific kind of pattern, or maybe your PJ is broken with that too...

I am working on two approaches - to look at the RS50 today, and if not satisfied with motion issues, sell that, and try a replacement either through the dealer (who still has my money for the Sony and can get another one shipped) or with Sony directly...

The RS arrived already, so hope to some viewing this afternoon.

I don't have most of the images with me at work...here is one of the returned 90es

That is terrible. I may have to start QCing these...just got them in stock and I think I will open them and look them over before sending...

That is not normal