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What to use: Green Glue | Resilient Channel | Furring Channel

post #1 of 33
11/24/10 at 5:52am
Thread Starter 
Hello,

I'm almost ready to put up the drywall in my newly renovated theatre room.

I've added Roxul in the ceiling and on a side wall (the other 3 walls either face the outside or the garage).

My question is this: I want to prevent sound from reaching the bedrooms above the theatre.

I've read about double-drywalling + green glue ... but am not sure about the use furring channels OR resilient channels. I just want to prevent the bass sounds from moving into the room above... I suspect that the Roxul insulation will take care of the rest.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:00am
Go look at www.soundproofingcompany.com to start. There are a ton of articles there. You cannot just treat the ceiling as sound will travel up the wall studs to the joists and the rest of the house - especially for low frequencies.
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post #3 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

Go look at www.soundproofingcompany.com to start. There are a ton of articles there. You cannot just treat the ceiling as sound will travel up the wall studs to the joists and the rest of the house - especially for low frequencies.

That's a good point.

I looked at that website ... and read their article on backer boxes ... very interesting.

Is green glue really $165 a pop?
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post #4 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:28am
I also recommend calling them. They are an awesome resource. They can give you the price on the green glue for your project and help plan what you need to do to meet your goals. Price varies on how much you buy (tell them you are an AVSer). I'm not sure how much a "pop" is! GG/clips/silenseal/etc was cheaper than I thought it would be.
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post #5 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibonesti View Post

Is green glue really $165 a pop?

That's list.

If you're doing a room, you'd want to use 5 gallon pails for $ savings.
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post #6 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:42am
If you use the current recommended serving size GG breaks down to about $30/4x8 sheet of drywall. That's two tubes/sheet. They used to recommend 3 tubes. They say you can get away with one for partial results.

How many entrances do you have into this room? Doors are by FAR the weakest link.
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post #7 of 33
11/24/10 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

If you use the current recommended serving size GG breaks down to about $30/4x8 sheet of drywall. That's two tubes/sheet.

Actually it's under $20 per 4x8 sheet
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post #8 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

If you use the current recommended serving size GG breaks down to about $30/4x8 sheet of drywall. That's two tubes/sheet. They used to recommend 3 tubes. They say you can get away with one for partial results.

How many entrances do you have into this room? Doors are by FAR the weakest link.

The room is rectangular: 18' x 10' and has 1 door that leads to a hallway....

EX garage
EX .------------
EX |.............. > Hallway
EX |.............. |
EX .------------
EX .EXterior

Still wondering about how to minimize the bass frequencies from moving up into the rooms above (... there is a crawl space below the room - so not a concern).
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post #9 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:04am
I guess what I was saying is that it is not easy to do...AT ALL. It can be done, but it takes some special techniques, materials and more thought and labor. Read all the articles on that website and you'll have a very good start.
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post #10 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:10am
I used just DD + GG in my basement theater, but no furring channels, and am very pleased with the results. Almost all low and mid frequencies have been eliminated to the upstairs. However, during the very heavy bass parts of the movie, the low frequencies are reduced but still audible upstairs. Low frequencies are very difficult to eliminate. Read up and best of luck on your adventure.
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post #11 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

I guess what I was saying is that it is not easy to do...AT ALL. It can be done, but it takes some special techniques, materials and more thought and labor. Read all the articles on that website and you'll have a very good start.

Not easy to do? I'm not sure that I agree. If you are talking about cutting down sound transmission 100%, then I agree. If you are talking about 90%, then I have to disagree. There is nothing really hard about it, it just takes some reading and planning. It also doesn't hurt to consult with experts (Tedd, BPape, Dennis). The techniques are not hard to learn, and really, it's all in the planning...execution is rather streaightforward.

CJ
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post #12 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:20am
CJ: I guess I was comparing dd/gg/fiberglass/double walls/clips/hat channel/silenseal/outlets/dead vents and on all walls compared to the OP's idea that DD/GG/resilient channel on the ceiling would do the trick....and compared to regular construction, I'd say it is on the more complex side of the continuum.

I agree, with help, planning, etc it can be done by the average DIYer....but it can double the labor for some rooms, I would think.
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post #13 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:27am
I sort of went all out on isolation. In my room, I used the following:
  • RISC-DC04 clips to isolate the walls from the joists above
  • Two independent 2x4 walls separated by a 1" air gap. These were insulated as well
  • Ceiling suspended using RISC DC01 clips and hat channel
  • 1 layer of 5/8" drywall on the outside of theater walls
  • 2x 5/8" drywall on inside of theater (all walls and ceiling)
  • 2 tubes of GG per 4x8 sheet of drywall inside all walls
  • No perforations in ceiling for lights. Only 3 perforations in ceiling (2 for HVAC registers and 1 for projector cabling)
  • Ceiling insulated
  • Used flex ducting for all of the ducts in the room
  • Soffits built after envelope of the room was completed - insulated the soffit too)
  • All wall perforations have backer boxes behind them (boxed made of 5/8" MDF and sealed well, glued to the back of drywall at install time)

All in all, the room performs great from an isolation perspective. I went into the project knowing that the double door that I installed would be the weak link...this has proven to be true.

I did a test in the room. I started the boat battle scene at the beginning of Master and Commander. I cranked the sound level until I had sustained sound pressure of 110+ dB. I went outside the room to the bar area (see my thread for a floor plan) to the wall directly behind the speakers. I measured 65-70 dB sustained. Most of that was creaping out of the room through the door (by my ears). I measured virtually zero on the floor directly above the theater. There were occasional thumps from my subwoofer, but they were really, really minor.

All in all, I'd have to say that the isolation was a great success!
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post #14 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreasMergner View Post

CJ: I guess I was comparing dd/gg/fiberglass/double walls/clips/hat channel/silenseal/outlets/dead vents and on all walls compared to the OP's idea that DD/GG/resilient channel on the ceiling would do the trick....and compared to regular construction, I'd say it is on the more complex side of the continuum.

I agree, with help, planning, etc it can be done by the average DIYer....but it can double the labor for some rooms, I would think.

Oh, I understand. I read your note as it was hard to pull off from a technique and labor perspective. It is a bit more complicated to be sure, but noting that peoperly supervised day laborer can't pull off (or a home owner).
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post #15 of 33
11/24/10 at 7:39am
CJ, I'm doing all that for my room also. I hope my results are as good as yours! I still think it would be stretching it to say this stuff is easy. It is definitely worth it, but some won't agree when they see what they have to do.
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post #16 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Actually it's under $20 per 4x8 sheet

I love price drops. I just looked at my notes and it broke down to just over $12/tube when I did mine in the summer.

As for your other stuff, if you're serious, I'm a big believer in room-in-a-room construction and space. It's a PITA though. It requires an air-lock style set of doors (you have to open/close two doors in series like you're going into a grocery store, mall, or bank). You could also literally build a much smaller room inside your basement that doesn't really touch anything. Make that "little" room massive along with a massive door and you'll get excellent results.
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post #17 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

If you are talking about 90%, then I have to disagree.

Indeed, although it would be nice to attain 100% sound reduction in the adjacent rooms, I'd be more than content with 85%+... that is, if I can hear a faint rumble; it's OK. How to achieve that 85% without spending for 100% is the million dollar question.

With that in mind... would
1) green glue be enough
2) resilient channels be enough
3) furring channels be enough
4) OR a combination of the above

Thank you guys so much for your help. Sounds like you all have amazing setups!
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post #18 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post

I sort of went all out on isolation. In my room, I used the following:
  • RISC-DC04 clips to isolate the walls from the joists above
  • Two independent 2x4 walls separated by a 1" air gap. These were insulated as well
  • Ceiling suspended using RISC DC01 clips and hat channel
  • 1 layer of 5/8" drywall on the outside of theater walls
  • 2x 5/8" drywall on inside of theater (all walls and ceiling)
  • 2 tubes of GG per 4x8 sheet of drywall inside all walls
  • No perforations in ceiling for lights. Only 3 perforations in ceiling (2 for HVAC registers and 1 for projector cabling)
  • Ceiling insulated
  • Used flex ducting for all of the ducts in the room
  • Soffits built after envelope of the room was completed - insulated the soffit too)
  • All wall perforations have backer boxes behind them (boxed made of 5/8" MDF and sealed well, glued to the back of drywall at install time)

All in all, the room performs great from an isolation perspective. I went into the project knowing that the double door that I installed would be the weak link...this has proven to be true.

I did a test in the room. I started the boat battle scene at the beginning of Master and Commander. I cranked the sound level until I had sustained sound pressure of 110+ dB. I went outside the room to the bar area (see my thread for a floor plan) to the wall directly behind the speakers. I measured 65-70 dB sustained. Most of that was creaping out of the room through the door (by my ears). I measured virtually zero on the floor directly above the theater. There were occasional thumps from my subwoofer, but they were really, really minor.

All in all, I'd have to say that the isolation was a great success!

This brings tears to my eyes... Thanks a lot for sharing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

I love price drops. I just looked at my notes and it broke down to just over $12/tube when I did mine in the summer.

Using pails brings the cost down. Dozens of little individually packed tubes cost more than a big fat pail.
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post #19 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibonesti View Post

With that in mind... would
1) green glue be enough
2) resilient channels be enough
3) furring channels be enough
4) OR a combination of the above

You would deploy decoupling, absorption, mass and damping.
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post #20 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmCutter View Post

I just looked at my notes and it broke down to just over $12/tube

You guys have to show me your math...

How many sheets of drywall does a pail cover for you?
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post #21 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post
You would deploy decoupling, absorption, mass and damping.
I won't pretend to be an expert here (because, it has become obvious that I'm not). So, I'm not too sure what you mean by "deploying mass" OR "deploying damping"... but I will do my best to answer.

I think I've "deployed mass" by adding Roxul to the walls, ceiling and soffit (custom built to enclose a vent).

From there... I'm wondering what I need to do to reduce the bass noise to 85% without paying for 100% noise reduction.

Does decoupling = resilient channels?
Absorption = ???
Does damping = GG?

Does this make sense?
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post #22 of 33
11/24/10 at 8:55am
1 pail covers 365 square feet of surface at the recommended density. So 11.4 sheets of 4x8 drywall.

Decoupling refers to the framing. Decoupled walls, usually double stud, and clips & channel on the ceiling.

Absorption refers to the typical R13 fiberglass in the walls and R19 in the ceiling.

Mass would be the double 5/8" drywall. Massive and cheap.

Damping is the Green Glue you referenced.

If you can incorporate these 4 elements, you're ahead of the game. More discussion on these elements here: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/..._construction/
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post #23 of 33
11/24/10 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post
This brings tears to my eyes... Thanks a lot for sharing that.

Using pails brings the cost down. Dozens of little individually packed tubes cost more than a big fat pail.
Thanks to YOU and BPape for the advice and help. I am quite pleased with my isolation. I still need to do something to better seal the door up, but that is a lower priority right now (Saw LOTR I on Friday, LOTR II Sunday, Goodfellas yesterday and LOTR III tonight). I have 247 hours on the bulb already!

The pails were just being offered when I started. I already had 2 cases of GG, and I would have needed 1 aple and a partial. I did hear that they worked very well!
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post #24 of 33
11/24/10 at 9:37am
OT question: Did you watch LOTR on BR? Curious how they look.
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post #25 of 33
11/24/10 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post
OT question: Did you watch LOTR on BR? Curious how they look.
Of course! I'm getting to be a BR snob. Regular DVD's don't look great on my 141" 2.37:1 screen.

The movies looked good, but not "new BR" type of good. There were focus issues and a lot of grain...parts were beautiful, and parts were not. One needs to remember that these movies were shot about 10 years ago. I'm not sure that I would pay for the transfers (we watched them on BR from Netflix). Here's a good review about the movies:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/3622...ellowship.html

It was pretty accurate, IMHO.
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post #26 of 33
11/24/10 at 10:48am
Thanks for that. About what I expected.
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post #27 of 33
11/24/10 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post
Thanks to YOU and BPape for the advice and help. I am quite pleased with my isolation. I still need to do something to better seal the door up, but that is a lower priority right now (Saw LOTR I on Friday, LOTR II Sunday, Goodfellas yesterday and LOTR III tonight). I have 247 hours on the bulb already!

The pails were just being offered when I started. I already had 2 cases of GG, and I would have needed 1 aple and a partial. I did hear that they worked very well!
I second that. Thanks to Ted and SoundProofingCompany.com, I am so happy with the sound isolation I chose. I did the 2 5/8" DD, GreenGlue (2 per sheet), DC-04's on the walls and clips/channel on the ceiling. Can't hear a peep upstairs. I also put backerboxes on the 3 cans in the ceiling for the stage and putty pads on all outlets, sconces, etc. Since the only exposed wall I really had was to the lobby, I chose not to stagger studs or do 2 walls on the left side of the theater. While you can hear sound in the lobby, once the lobby door is closed and the theater door is closed - not a peep. Nothing upstairs in the living room above or in any of the rooms.
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post #28 of 33
11/24/10 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post
Thanks for that. About what I expected.
Now if you have a choice between BR and SD on a big screen...take the BR every time! Unfortunately, the extended versions of LOTR is not available on BR yet.
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post #29 of 33
11/24/10 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carboranadum View Post
Unfortunately, the extended versions of LOTR is not available on BR yet.
I just hate when they do that...
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post #30 of 33
6/28/12 at 7:23am
I'm dividing two bedrooms, but this is a low priority wall for soundproofing, and I don't want to spend much of our budget on it.
We have some extra green glue. Is it worth the effort to put green glue on the studs as the rock is hung?

This is a shearwall: plywood sheathing on one side, 2x4 studs, electrical penetrations. One side will have regular 1/2" drywall, the plywood side gets 1/4" drywall. I also have box putty and ultratouch available on site.
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