Look before you leap - my "upgrade" experience tonight - Page 3

Looks like this Thread has become a HP Testimonial Tome.


Stock up on several cases of Geritol and give us a shout back in 2014.

Hey Deja Vu
I just ordered the H5360 also on that Newegg special. Can't wait to try it out! How are the blacks on the Acer in 2D mode??

Quick question on 3D, I ordered a ATI 5570 Video card and the optoma glasses along with the projector. I believe that's all I need for 3D from my PC, correct? Which glasses do you prefer?

I'm still tempted to get the JVC 250 for 2D.

Hey zombie10k
Those last few screenshots are they from a Mits 3800 projector?? I thought you mentioned that in another thread?? I'm trying to decide right now to go for either the Mits HC4000 or the JVC HD250, irregardless of price. If your screenshots are the Mits 3800 they really look nice!

Edit - Found out the info on the Mits. Blacks aren't the greatest you say. Are blacks worse on Dalite HP screens?

If you follow this link he has them posted in the "Show us your screenshots!!" topic. Above the posted shots he wrote "Mitsubishi HC5500 / Dalite Cinema Contour 142" w/ 2.8 HP Material / Nikon D90"

Amazing detail from a non dlp projector, and I don't even want to know how much the screen cost.

It would seem this is true since the OP started the thread talking of his experience upgrading projectors but the theme of "look before you leap" can be applied to upgrading your screen if it will add life to your present projector. My Panasonic has reached its 6th birthday and is still looking good. I ran the first bulb in eco-mode and the second at full brightness but as it is approaching its end of life I am getting upgraditis. My daughter and husband just purchased a Samsung 3D plasma set which looks fantastic with the right material but I really dislike wearing 3D glasses because of the weight (prescription + 3D glasses) but mainly because of the marked light drop-off in the picture. My original question was about the HP 2.8 retro-reflective properties but further reading seems to suggest it's no good for a wide room since the gain drops off rapidly as you go off-axis. I would need something that retains most of its high gain across a 120 degree viewing cone so it appears that the HP is not suited for my environment.

That's unfortunately true, but there are perfectly viable alternatives.

You need something with both Gain, ambient light resistance, and a ultra wide viewing cone?

Like this perhaps? 110" diagonal SF Screen

Very High Ambient Light w/Flood


The shot above was taken in excessive lighting conditions on purpose...and with the image in motion...not paused.

Side Shots at 80 degrees off axis[/b]


Pm me for the details as it involves "DIY" screen making and this is not the proper venue to wax eloquent about such.

....but the old adage "A picture is worth...." certainly applies here. A screen with such properties is absolutely ideal for 3D applications using Active Shutter Glasses because it helps maintain Gain levels and Contrast while delivering "Room Wide" viewing.

MM, which formula/method are you suggesting? I may do some poking around the DIY screen section (haven't been there in a while), but was looking for a shortcut on where to start.

Thanks!

Bob

My JVC RS10 (same as hd250/350) puts out at least 700 lumens in best mode. It looks amazing on my 110" 2.8 hp screen

Hi they are from a 2008 model Mitsubishi HC5500 3 LCD. I'm not really a fan of DLP's because I am highly sensitive to RBE. It doesn't bother me too much in 3D mode on the Acer 5360, it's only visible in high contrast scenes, or white letters on a black background. The blacks aren't 'worse' on the HP screen, it's a passive device so all reflected light is amplified evenly. I will say the blacks on my JVC RS40 should look considerably better than my 3 year old LCD projector.

personally I'd consider the HD250 which is really a re-release of the RS10. Great native contrast and no RBE to be found with the 3chip setup. You could have a 2 projector setup with great blacks/contrast on the RS10 and the impressive 3D image of the Acer 5360.

@BBQ7 - no doubt the 142" custom sized cinema contour wasn't cheap and waited nearly 2 years to decide on it. I am a big fan of this screen, I predict a number of projectors will come and go before I replace it. But missippiman is correct, the gain angle on the horizon is relative narrow (fine for my 4 seats across, 4 seats behind) but for a wide seating area, another screen would have to be considered.

I think the common information being provided to the OP is that the screen, given a particular environment can make a big difference in the appearance of the image to suit one's tastes. There are a number of ways to create the bright 'plasma on the wall' look.

I'm curious too, that looks really good. Better than the cheap fixed screen I have. Maybe I could just paint over that...lol.

Well Guys,

Lets be clear on one thing here.

Obtaining the "Better'n a Plasma" look has always been first and foremost in every DIY offering I've been involved with since 2003. It gets considerably harder to maintain that level of PQ when there is ambient light of any degree present, but proportionately, you don't see many 100"+ Plasmas featured on AVS or offered up for comparison.

Performance in a DIY Screen is based strictly upon planning and effort...and to some degree (...but less than Mfg...) expense outlaid.

A Mfg Screen like the featured HP works splendidly for many apps, especially those whose rooms are more narrow than wide, and whose lighting directly ahead of the Screen area is controlled.

The DIY application shown is Silver Fire, something that combines a small degree of retro-reflectivity with adequate sideways disbursement of reflected light as well. In other words, it has a narrower viewing cone than a 1.0 gain Matte White, but not much less. You don't see side shots of HP screens like the ones above, nor nearly as many shots in high ambient light either.

When combined with the known ambient light resistance of a Gray base color, the enhanced reflectivity/brightness provides much better ambient light performance. This is something decidedly lacking in a HP screen, although in many cases, sheer directed brightness does compensate to a degree when and if there is good contrast specifications added into the projector equation. Simply put, the better the blacks are starting out, and the more intensely they are presented onto a surface, the less impact ambient light will have on them. Yessir, there will still be a degree of "washout", but in many cases, an acceptable amount.

Simply put, a HP screen getting hit with a Uber-High Contrast PJ's image is gonna look spectacular....brook no doubt. Ask any JVC owner w/a HP.

Then again, I haven't seen many 160" diagonal HP's on the Boards.

In contrast, Silver Fire, and it's stable mate RS-MaxxMudd both have shown considerable use in screens at/above those sizes. Both exhibit gains of 1.2+ yet appear to be much higher when a good PJ with high contrast combines with those Screen's higher reflectivity and contrast enhancement characteristics. Just like what happens with a HP. Go figure.

All such Screens, DIY or Mfg are Passive, the differences lie in how the light is redirected, attenuated, and or shifted (ugh). Light focused within a narrower cone of incidence is not just gonna seem brighter...it will be / is brighter. That is due to an increase in intensity via density related amplification. No extra light is produced, just concentrated.

Therein lies the premise behind the designs of the HPs, the Black Diamonds, the Fire Hawks, and yes, the Silver Fires of this existence. Some applications can and do do more, and/or do things better than others. Cost alone is not a good basis of judgment to use to make a choice by as to performance/value considerations .

This little dissertation is not / was not intended to promote DIY over Mfg. Both venues offer specific advantages, some "over" and some in concert with the other. In my way of thinking, the primary advantage of DIY is extreme flexibility in design, and performance levels. When combined with the "almost always the case" far lessor expense, DIY simply offers up more and varied choices for those who are apt to consider rolling up sleeves and gettin' it dun.

It's all good Brothers..., iffin ya use good common sense reasoning. Jerk a knee over a Screenie or overly effusive (ie: biased) review, and your apt to wind up kicking yourself with that same foot later. That applies to ANY screen...Mfg or DIY

Absolutely you can....and I've done so several times. It's easier than doing the same with a BOC surface. Retractable-s are also included in that premise.

if you want to see a noticable difference, just get close to the screen and you'll see just how much tighter the image really is, and how much smaller the SDE is compared to the 720P projectors.

that being said, going 1080P over 720P is no where near as big a jump as going from a 480P to 720P projector. that my friend is night and day.

Your right about the jump to 1080p sort of, but if you use a reference disk compared to a 720p setting on your blueray and compare it, then you can see the difference almost as much ONLY if you have a big screen (say at least 100" from 12 feet or so).

Since most other content is fake 1080p (non-blue ray content) due to compresion algorithms and what not, yah it's barely noticeable with cable even on larger images. Still if you blow up 720p big enough, it starts looking like 480p used to look.

Almost certainly the JVC, or you could get a refurb'd Epson 8500ub.

WOW. This thread really hit close to home. I'd swear some of you were sitting in my theater for the last few days. To the original poster, I too upgraded recently and was less than thrilled. I purchased an Epson 8700UB as it seemed to be the best bang for the buck LCD machine. (rainbows kill me) I have been running a Panasonic 900 for the last 5 years and thought it was great but the urge to move to 1080p and the need for a third bulb got the best of me, so I ordered the Epson. First impression - I spent 2K for this!?! It wasn't until last night, when I was ready to return it, that my wife suggested that I set then up side by side and compare images from my Blu-ray player. My projector sits on a shelf so this is easy for me. I know if you ceiling mount this can't be done but for this kind of money they could be temporarily placed on a table at a similar distance from the screen. Anyway, I spent the next hour pausing the image and plugging and unplugging the HDMI cable from one machine to the other and realized the following:
1. Out of the box, the Panasonic leans toward red, the Epson toward green. I guess I like, or have grown accustom to, red.
2. The new Epson beats the stuffing out of my older Panasonic in every other regard. Even with the DVD player set to output 720 which I had to do for the switching back and forth thing and the Epson set on Eco mode to compensate for the Panny's older bulb, it's sharper, way brighter, and the colors are so much deeper it isn't funny. At 1080 and normal power it's just beyond silly.
I suppose that unless I was willing to spend a lot, a really lot, more money, this projector is pretty damn good and a vast improvement over my older Panasonic. I would wholeheartedly suggest that anyone wondering if they made the right move upgrading try the side be side thing within the return window. I might ease your mind about spending the money. I did for me.

This has been a real interesting thread. My panny 900 had 2000 hours on it and I started looking at upgrades. I really wanted 3D but thought it was a few years out yet. I ended up ordering an Epson 8350. I then spent the weekend reading post like these where people were not overly wowed by there upgrades. I also found a thread on the Acer 5360 3D projector. In 3D it was getting rave reviews and with a coupon could be had for under $500. I canceled the Epson and bought the Acer. The Acer wasn't getting much love in 2D but I was curious how it would compare to the older AE900. It pretty much beat the AE900 in all areas in 2D. It does have rainbows but I don't see them. I would be curious to compare the Epson to the Acer.