Ysp 2200 - Page 10

Davyo,
A little off subject but what TV setting do you watch your panny on? Is there any other adjustments you have made to the setting either? I ended up hanging the soundbar above the TV and it sounds great. The 2200 is a nice soundbar. I kind of want a couple rear speakers wo wires now. Any suggestions? Anyone?
Thanks

Hey,,, sorry I cant tell you exact settings on the 65" S2 as I recently sold it (buying a new 65" panel) I can say most of the time I did keep the Panny in Vivid mode.

As far as a soundbar with rear speakers, my pick would be the Vizio VHT510.

Cheers
Davyo

Again...what subwoofer did you use with the 2200? that rinky-dink sub that came with the 2200? Forget the 5100,....You listen to the YSP-3000 with my Dual Hsu ULS-15 and tell me if the JVC sounds anything close to it. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of not only using a sub with the YSP but the best your money can afford. These comparisons you're doing Davyo don't mean nothing if you're not at least using the same sub for each soundbar.

If you go the subwoofer forums, how many times have you seen this? " recommend me the best for under $200". Every week this questions comes up and you wonder why are ppl allocating so little for the sub when it should be the the single most important purchase in their audio line up.

drfreeman...I hate to bust your bubble but not sure if you saw my post re the 2200 I had ask a Yamaha level 2 tech support and he sd the 2200 was purely designed for the 3-d novelty and for space restrictions but doesn't compare with the 4100 or 5100 in performance. If you like additional technical talk on it please contact them and specifically ask for a level 2 personnel if audition the 2200 is not possible. Level 1 is just for help setting up but is limited on the performance and design of the ysp's.

I have no idea if the "what subwoofer did you use with the 2200" is meant for me or not,, no copy of a "QUOTE" and I know my name is not "Again" but you do mention my name later in your post in reguards to comparisions so I guess I will asume the post was meant for me.

Perhaps in the furture you could be more specific, using "QUOTE's" or a persons name when asking a question can make everything much easier for everyone,, yourself included.
Also, I would not have had to type out all this stuff asking if the question was directed at me,,, so please, be more specific in the furture, it really does help.

Ok, on to the question if it was for me.

The sub I used with the 2200 was the sub that came with the 2200.

Yes, I am very much aware that a sub is most important when using a YSP, read my past postings and you will see I tell everyone not to even think of using a YSP without a sub.

No, I have not used the same sub with ALL my YSP's, I used a mid priced Onky sub, a Yamaha sub and also a Sony sub,, none of the sub's are what I would call high end,,, Im sure your Dual HSU is a nicer sub that what I have used.

So your saying "all my comparisons I have done over the years are meaningless" because I did not use the same sub,,,,,ahhhh ok.

Going by your posting its pretty easy to figure out you have not read many of my postings, so I will give you a quick rundown on what I mention in many of my postings.

A: these are soundbars, not high end systems.
B: soundbars are meant for people that dont want or cant use high end systems.
C: soundbars are best for apartments or condo's or places where noise is a concern.
D: soundbars are for people wanting to save money.
E: soundbars are for people that dont want to or cant run wires all over the place.
F: if you want a high end sound go with a full on 5.1 system.
G: if your wanting the best sound you can get with a soundbar get a YSP.

These are the things I mention alot in my postings, I know you have not read my posting's because I tell people on a regualar basis that the YSP is the best bar you can get if you dont mind spending the money,,,,, and your post is telling me the YSP is a better bar than all the other soundbars,,,,, so why are you debating to me the YSP is the better soundbar when that's what I already tell people ????

Cheers
Davyo

Zoey - I am quite familiar with Hsu sub-woofers and have been since first hearing one in the late 1980's or early 1990's. My memory is too fuzzy to remember which. I am very familiar also with how sub-woofers can add to a good hi-fi having owned matched pairs from both Dahlquist (1970's) and Janis (1978-1996). These were driven using electronic crossovers from Phase Linear and later Bryston. Amplification was initially from Phase Linear and later Carver. The subs were set up to minimize room irregularities and compement only the lowest octave and one-half of bass. The original Dahlquist subs were purchased to go with a pair of Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers. The Janis subs were used with a variety of speakers including Quad Electrostatic, Magneplaner, KEF, Vandersteen and currently Infinity. The only speakers I owned that they were not used with were a pair of TimeWindows from DCM. The Dahlquist were very good woofers but had little output below 25hz. The Janis had good output down to the subsonic region of about 18hz. I am stating this only to let you know that I am familiar with good bass response and understand the parameters of what makes a good bass speaker such as elasticity, Q, damping, deadness, etc. I still have a Boston Accoustics powered sub-woofer with built in crossover and level adjustments which I use with my music only system in a seperate room from my home theater. I was also at one point a classicaly trained pianist and am eternally sorry that I did not keep up my lessons and practice. My wife and I attend a good number of concerts each year from our local symphony, opera and ballet companies. We also visit a number of small clubs to hear live jazz and blues regularly as well as still enjoy rooftop rock conerts in the summer at a local hotel.

All of the above is only to let you know that I am familiar with the qualities that a good woofer can add to most systems (not all). I am also very familiar with what music sounds like. I do not have golden ears able to pick out the most minute differences in equipment as some reviewers throughout the years have. My criteria in selecting audio equipment for almost forty years has always been, how close does this sound to real music. I have invested in expensive audiophile caliber equipment from Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Krell and Carver. I have also had great enjoyment from more popularly priced mid-level equipment from Harmon Kardon, NAD, Pioneer, Yamaha and currently Onkyo. During the mid 1980's for about ten years I participated in and studied the results of large amounts of double-blind testing of audio equipment. From this, I think I learned a great deal about what most people can discern from listening to certain equipment and the factors that lead to audible differences.

With that preface, I would like to address your assertions on the importance of sub-woofers. While your 5100 with Hsu sub-woofers may be a perfect match, my experience with matching true sub-woofers with a soundbar or even very good mini-monitor type speakers (Rogers LS3/5a, JR-149, various units from Canton) not HTIB speakers does not match yours. Typically, a true sub-woofer, such as most units from HSU or my lesser Boston Accoustics do not match well with these devices. I am unaware of the high frequency crossover of your HSU or the low frequency cut-off of the current Yamaha so this does not refer to your system. My Yamaha YSP-900 had a low frequency cut-off (with the same 5" woofers as your 5100) of around 150hz. There was a hump in response just above the LF cut-off to give the impression of extended bass. I do not consider this a bad thing as it was there in the Rogers LS3/5a in 1976 and it usually sounds pretty good. I do know that my Boston Accoustics sub does not match well with the Yamaha or any of the other soundbars that have passed through my home. Never tried it with my Sony due to the dedicated electronics between the soundbar and sub. Even though the BA can be set to a high frequency crossover point of 120hz, this is still too low to match correctly with my Yamaha, Vizio or JVC. On the other hand, the dedicated sub-woofers (actually just woofers) from each of the companies do a superb job of matching the LF cutoff of the various soundbars in question while giving in most cases good bass response down to 45hz to 50hz. You will never feel these units shake your insides as a true sub would, but the overall sound is better balanced and the output is more believeable than when mated with the better overall equipment.

Based only on my personal experiences, the dedicated sub-woofer/woofer included with most soundbars is a better sonic match than a higher quality unit with dedicated electronics, crossovers, etc.

There is much that could be written about correct levels for sub-woofers, surround sound speakers, etc., but as I have probably placed most of the readers of this forum into sleep mode and taken up far too much real estate, I will save that for another time.

Zoey, I am glad you like your system, but I feel you are incorrect to dismiss what seem to you lesser system so readily. Although I am sure that my own views on this may be seen as highly suspect, I believe Davyo's experience with Hi-Fi and as a professional musician stand him in good stead to report on what he hears when listening to and reviewing equipment and his comments should be at least given due consideration.

Ok Davyo, I don't really have a problem with most of your post re YSP's it's cool. But I do have some quips with what you said in bold which I think is complete rubbish. I have had good full 5.1 systems so I know what one should sound like ok. Isn't Kef's flagship KHT ACE9000 driven by denon's 3805 120w x 5 paired up with velodyne SPL1200II not high end enough for you?

And lastly surely you must joking if you think just because you have a 5.1 system then it's "high end". What if I were to give you 1K to pick out a full 5.1 system at BB...can you do it? A decent receiver will run you about 350, a decent sub will run you about 400, what do you have left for speakers except for some bookshelf or some small towers. There is nothing under 1K you can pull off whether it be a complete 5.1 package like Polk or Energy that can best what I have set up right now with the 5100 & dual Hsu ULS-15. Yes, it was a pretty penny but my point is just because you have full 5.1..doesn't make it automatic "high end". I ain't saying what I have is cream of the crop or best thing since slice bread but You're going to have to have to spend more than 1500 minimum to equal or best what I have right now...Cheers

Is it just me or is this thread turning into a political/religion forum?

Most of us are just mellow soundbar groupies. Someone needs to chill...

Thanks David


Ohh crap,,, you mean that 5.1 Insignia system at BestBuy for $99.00 is not a high end system.

OK,, seriously, you cant really think thats what I meant, and I dont think anyone else reading this thought I meant "any" 5.1 system is a high end system,,,,, your kidding right ????

Cheers
Davyo

No it ain't just you......things have turned into a pi.....ing contest.

Agreed,,,, you guys are right,,, this has truned into a pissing match and Im sorry that I was part of the problem and not the solution,,,, but "zoey67" started it ,,,,,,, (I just couldnt resist saying that)

I will smoke a fatty, take a Quaalude and chill,,,,,,,, ok,,, the drugs have kicked in.

Zoey,,,, you were right about everything,,,, sorry for disagree'ing with you.

Cheers
Davyo

Just to get back on track, any recent deals on the YSP-2200? buy.com is sold out.
Thanks!

You guys are absolutely right. Thanks for getting us back on track.

This is the review that seems to have disappeared from amazon. Along with Davyo's, it's one of the few detailed write ups I've read to date.
http://www1.epinions.com/review/Yama...t_534916271748

www.brandnamez.com has it listed as in stock for $655. I have never heard of the site before, but it may be worth checking into if you're interested at that price.

^ I was intrigued so I checked the www.brandnamez.com website. Per their FAQs: "Unless otherwise specifically noted, BrandNamez is not an authorized dealer for any of the product(s) offered" and "some manufacturers may deny the Warranty Coverage".

Forget brandnamez.com....They're bad news.

It sounds so sketchy.

x2

Anyone get a copy of the glowing whathifi.com review of the ysp-2200? I tried searching online, but it sounds like it's a print only review. I'm dying for a detailed review of this thing.

Can someone tell me if they have had any luck connecting a separate sub-woofer to this thing? I am not sure how to do it or if it is a good idea. I can say I like the quality of the sub but want a little more and I have a polk PSW110 I wouldn't mind connect to this. any ideas?

The electronics for the soundbar are housed in the sub/receiver. The Yamaha has been frequency matched to the soundbar. You would still need to run the Yamaha sub. If the Yamaha sub also has a sub-out connector, you could connect the polk. However, if both units do not have the same efficiency, as you increase or decrease volume, one unit could end up way louder or softer than the other and really throw your sonic balance into the can. When you have a soundbar with a matched sub, you are normally better off to stay with that sub. Not sure about the Polk, but many dedicated subs are designed to be used for full range system (like my own Boston Accoustics). Therefore, their primary job is to reproduce only the last one to one and one half octaves (60hz and lower). Most soundbars start to roll off low frequencies between 120hz and 180hz. If the sub does not go high enough, as most true subs do not, then you have a gap of between one and three octaves of sound that are not represented. There is much more sonic energy in those uppoer octaves of the bass region than in the lower two and even though you could conceivably end up with a unit able to play lower frequencies, your bass would sound very deficient since most of the primary tones would be missing.

I think in the case of the YSP-2200, the electronics are in the soundbar. All the inputs, outputs, and the display are on the soundbar. The only connection between the sub and the soundbar is a +/- speaker cable. It seems likely that a third-party subwoofer will work, but as you point out, won't necessarily be well matched. Hopefully an intrepid forum member who already has one will check this out!

I was curious about them, so I sent an email to their customer service asking if they had the YSP-2200 in stock. Here's the response I got:

"Please be advised that the Yamaha YSP-2200 is a very rare and high-end
product. Please note that this product has to be special ordered for you.
It may take anywhere from 1 to 2 Weeks, for us to obtain this product. If
you are willing to wait for this product, within the specified time frame,
please submit your Order online. Also, please follow up with the E-Mail,
indicating that you are agree to wait for this product, for at most 2 Weeks.
If you choose to cancel your Order within the 1 to 2 Week period, your
account will be charged a 25% Restocking Fee. Please let us know if we
could be of any further assistance."

Just wanted others to be advised on how they are dealing with this product.

Absolutely correct. It looks like I'm the banana here.

To use a different subwoofer you have to use one with speaker level inputs.

Anyone have any luck finding one of these? buy.com and amazon are both sold out.

Order from ABT. Call in for a better price than the stated one.

That's great thanks! I will order from them. What do I need to say when I call in? The price online seems decent...

Just ask for their best price....

ok FOLKS here is what you have all BEEN waiting for: the first OFFICIAL ysp 2200 review
http://www.whathifi.com/Review/Yamaha-YSP-2200/

enjoy