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Mits HC-4000 vs. JVC HD-250 vs. Pan AE-4000

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
Hi All,

I recently bought a Mitsubishi HC-4000 to replace my Infocus SP4800 with a dim bulb and first stages of the light tunnel issue. The quality of the HC-4000 is a huge step up in all categories. However as I said in another thread there is a noticeable screen uniformity problem in all white or all black screens. With the upper right being lighter with a green cast compared with darker and a red-ish cast to the lower left (ceiling mounted).

Also the Mitsubishi seems to vibrate a bit on the mount causing the picture to shake just enough to notice. I'm using a Chief RPA mount bolted into solid concrete, so it's definitely secure =)

Anyway, I'm going to have to return it so I was thinking about other choices as well. Overall the picture on the HC-4000 is great, but a few nitpicks are noticeable noise in solid color areas and good but not great absolute black levels.

I'm considering the Panasonic AE-4000, mainly for the 2.35:1 option or the JVC HD-250 for the black levels.

- Will I be happy with the AE-4000 overall picture quality and brightness compared with the Mitsubishi. I like the pop yet natural look DLP picture on the Mitsubishi.

- Would the JVC's better black levels and hopefully lower mosquito noise justify the stretching of the budget.

- The uniformity problem and vibration with the Mitsubishi is giving me some pause as the QC on the Mitsubishi units.

Thanks!
post #2 of 40
I would (and did) pick the JVC over the Panny. The JVC is brighter and has more depth to the image. It throws a really stunning picture. I have not seen the mits to compare but have seen the panny in person.
post #3 of 40
Ditto, great picture on a projector that until this year was out of most people's price range. Give AV Science a call for a great deal. I'm thankful I did before my upgrade.
Don
post #4 of 40
Thread Starter 
Hmm, choices, choices. I think I'd be happy with the Mitsubishi if the uniformity was fixed with a new unit. Dropping another $1700 for the JVC although doable, seems a bit extravagant. I noticed the JVC has a powered lens shift and zoom like the AE-4000. Why in the world didn't implement lens memory, it should be just a firmware function and a simple one at that. Seems like on the JVC you could getto up something with a multi step macro on a universal remote to switch back between zoomed CH 2.35:1 and 16:9. Anyone tried this?
post #5 of 40
You should also consider Sony HW20 in your list. It should give the HD250 a run for its money.
post #6 of 40
I'm considering the JVC HD250 and the Mits 4000 also. After reading lots of threads I have concern over the following for both and others (Epson's) --

Everybody raves about the Epson's 8350 or 8700 picture but we don't really hear raves about the JVC (except on projector.com). It's like there are two different types of people who buy these. I would like to hear raves about the JVC but mostly we hear it has great blacks but it is most likely not usable in a lighted environment.

I actually went to a local dealer to see the Epson 8350 but he had a 9500 mounted. To me I could not live with the picture quality of that unit after living with an NEC DLP for the last 8 years. In thx mode the skin tones had a blue tint in them and the bright mode just washed out the color. This was their installer tech demoing it to me also. MM just posted some shots of an Epson and I see some of the same things in those shots. I guess it's definitely DLP or DILA for me.

Back to the JVC vs Mits

JVC pros -- blacks, contrast
JVC cons-- brightness (in lighted environment) , sharpness??

Mits pros -- brightness, sharpness, contrast??
Mits cons -- blacks, ??, quality control

So I guess we choose our favorite. Personally, I have a dark room so I'm so close to ordering the JVC but have a slight concern over the brightness and sharpness. Can an owner here tell me I have nothing to worry about regarding these two items.

Also, I haven't heard a word about quality control problems with JVC's. Do owners agree?
post #7 of 40
A month ago I was about to place an order for the Panny 4000. But there were things that concerned me. Like light output. And dust blobs. The HD-250 doesn't have these issues.

The bottom line is that the technology used on the HD-250 (LCoS) is superior to regular LCD. Up until now, many picked an LCD simply because it is cheaper. The HD-250 has changed that.
post #8 of 40
In best mode the 250 kills the 8500 in brightness by a good bit. In the brightest mode the 8500 wins. The 250 is a big step up from the 8500 (which I had). As a poster mentioned no dust blobs or minimal chance. The only advantage I see with the Epson is the overnight replacement if your projector goes in for repair.
post #9 of 40
Sounds like we are all in same boat. I was going to buy the panny 4k but now the jvc really has my interest. I watch equal amounts of sports, movies and gaming so along with sharpness I also am concerned with motion blur. Does anyone have any input on which projector would handle sports and gaming better? I would suspect the jvc would win out on movies. Thanks for any input.
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Everybody raves about the Epson's 8350 or 8700 picture but we don't really hear raves about the JVC (except on projector.com). It's like there are two different types of people who buy these. I would like to hear raves about the JVC but mostly we hear it has great blacks but it is most likely not usable in a lighted environment.

Thats because us JVC owners spend more time enjoying our projectors than justifying our purchases. The JVC has not been a top rated projector for no reason. The raves are definitely out there.

P.S. My RS10 and 110" Dalite HP 2.8 screen combo is VERY usable in a lighted enviroinment. I just watched the Grey Cup ( Canada's Superbowl ) with a fair bit of lighting on and the picture was stunning.

As for reliability, I bought my RS10 from AVS which means I would have to ship it to the states for any warranty and I am not regretting that decision at all.


C'mon everyone, get off that fence and get one of these projectors so you too can have affordable video nirvana
post #11 of 40
Right on Rodk
I've been reading about the HP 2.8 screen too. I believe it's now 2.4 correct? Do they make a pulldown version?
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by advgeek View Post

Hi All,

I recently bought a Mitsubishi HC-4000 to replace my Infocus SP4800 with a dim bulb and first stages of the light tunnel issue. The quality of the HC-4000 is a huge step up in all categories. However as I said in another thread there is a noticeable screen uniformity problem in all white or all black screens. With the upper right being lighter with a green cast compared with darker and a red-ish cast to the lower left (ceiling mounted).

Also the Mitsubishi seems to vibrate a bit on the mount causing the picture to shake just enough to notice. I'm using a Chief RPA mount bolted into solid concrete, so it's definitely secure =)

Anyway, I'm going to have to return it so I was thinking about other choices as well. Overall the picture on the HC-4000 is great, but a few nitpicks are noticeable noise in solid color areas and good but not great absolute black levels.

I'm considering the Panasonic AE-4000, mainly for the 2.35:1 option or the JVC HD-250 for the black levels.

- Will I be happy with the AE-4000 overall picture quality and brightness compared with the Mitsubishi. I like the pop yet natural look DLP picture on the Mitsubishi.

- Would the JVC's better black levels and hopefully lower mosquito noise justify the stretching of the budget.

- The uniformity problem and vibration with the Mitsubishi is giving me some pause as the QC on the Mitsubishi units.

Thanks!

If you really have the cash....buy the HD250. Best blacks at its price range, Period.

If you don't want to spend that much cash, then go with the Panny AE4000. It will give you better blacks than the Mitsubishi. But if you want more pop!, I suggest you consider the Epson 8700UB! Its a better value than the Panny AE4000 and from what I've read it has better blacks, shadow detail and color balance than the Panny. It also has a longe warranty and has a free lamp cupon.

None of them will be as bright as the Mits hc4000. All of them were geared towards a light controlled home theater room. The Mits...although could work just as well for that application, its more geared towards a family or bonus room with a little more ambient light.

Again....if you have the cash go for the hd250 or the Epson 8700
post #13 of 40
RodK and eliwankenobi
I jumped....floating now. Hope I never land! JVC from AVS coming when restocked. This was a really hard decision.
post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

RodK and eliwankenobi
I jumped....floating now. Hope I never land! JVC from AVS coming when restocked. This was a really hard decision.

Congrats! I am on the edge! I am coming from a panny 900 so I know I will be pleased. Ijust want to make sure I make the right decision.
post #15 of 40
The 2.35:1 feature the ae4000 has was the deciding factor for me.

I can't believe the others have not implemented it.
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneotool View Post

The 2.35:1 feature the ae4000 has was the deciding factor for me.

I can't believe the others have not implemented it.

Apparently it is implemented in the Epson 21000 which is imminent. I'm holding off waiting for that. Non powered zoom options aren't in my list to consider.
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

Right on Rodk
I've been reading about the HP 2.8 screen too. I believe it's now 2.4 correct? Do they make a pulldown version?

You can still request the 2.8 material in a pull down at no extra cost.
post #18 of 40
My projector lens will be level with the top of my screen. I guess that's no good for the 2.8 screen. I do have a lower level shelf I can use though.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyee View Post

RodK and eliwankenobi
I jumped....floating now. Hope I never land! JVC from AVS coming when restocked. This was a really hard decision.

Congratulations on your purchase!!

Please post your impressions when you get it!
post #20 of 40
Thread Starter 
Just ordered the JVC HD-250. I'm really stoked. The HC4000 was a nice step up from my old Infocus but it will be nice to hopefully get a projector in the JVC without any image issues that distract from the viewing experience. Ideally one should forget about the projector all together when your watching.
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by advgeek View Post
Just ordered the JVC HD-250. I'm really stoked. The HC4000 was a nice step up from my old Infocus but it will be nice to hopefully get a projector in the JVC without any image issues that distract from the viewing experience. Ideally one should forget about the projector all together when your watching.
True true!

Congratulations on your purchase!
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by advgeek View Post

Just ordered the JVC HD-250. I'm really stoked. The HC4000 was a nice step up from my old Infocus but it will be nice to hopefully get a projector in the JVC without any image issues that distract from the viewing experience. Ideally one should forget about the projector all together when your watching.

The color imbalance fades at 100-200 hours. I owned an hc3800 for 200 hours which I only returned due to RBE, totally pinkish red on one side fades to invisible eventually. It's the new lamp's red BIAS, it happens on many projectors. Now some units have worse color uniformity than others, and maybe the hc4000 is worse than the hc3800's uniformity (but I doubt it). Anyways, this shouldn't be an issue, you just have to wait for it to fade.

And no, it wasn't just because after 200 hours the lamp got dimmer, the actual color tables had completely altered and the red bias was 95% gone (invisible to the naked eye).

The tiny bit of "image noise" you saw in the picture is mainly due to the EXTREME sharpness of the Mits, it is a lot sharper than most other projectors so you see any tiny distortion a lot more. You need to get the contrast and sharpness set correctly to get rid of this, you can also just negate the sharpness a bit and that will help.
post #23 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The color imbalance fades at 100-200 hours. I owned an hc3800 for 200 hours which I only returned due to RBE, totally pinkish red on one side fades to invisible eventually. It's the new lamp's red BIAS, it happens on many projectors. Now some units have worse color uniformity than others, and maybe the hc4000 is worse than the hc3800's uniformity (but I doubt it). Anyways, this shouldn't be an issue, you just have to wait for it to fade.

And no, it wasn't just because after 200 hours the lamp got dimmer, the actual color tables had completely altered and the red bias was 95% gone (invisible to the naked eye).

The tiny bit of "image noise" you saw in the picture is mainly due to the EXTREME sharpness of the Mits, it is a lot sharper than most other projectors so you see any tiny distortion a lot more. You need to get the contrast and sharpness set correctly to get rid of this, you can also just negate the sharpness a bit and that will help.

The red is fading a bit, but it's still noticeable. That combined with the problem that 2 out of 3 of my HDMI devices won't sync with the projector (I'm using a Monoprice 24AWG 25' HDMI 1.3 cable) has lead me to decide to step up to the JVC HD250. The possibility of 2.35:1 zoom is also a draw. The HC4000 is a nice projector, but just not quite there.
post #24 of 40
Have you discovered the Aspect button on the HC4000's remote? It's a nifty way to go from 2.35:1 to 16x9 instantly.
post #25 of 40
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post #26 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightRT View Post

Have you discovered the Aspect button on the HC4000's remote? It's a nifty way to go from 2.35:1 to 16x9 instantly.

Knight I'm talking about using the motorized zoom and lens shift on the JVC with a 2.35:1 screen. The HC4000 requires a lens to do true 2.35:1.
post #27 of 40
Congrats. I said it in another thread, both Epson and Panny have more supporters/buyers, so by sheer percentage, they raved about them for the right reasons. My logic is that if so many people own and drive Toyota Corrola, it must be a great car. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it is very reliable.

I had the Mitsu HC3800, comparing to my RS2, the depth and realism of the JVC is incredible. Is it worth the money? IMHO, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

You won't regret.

As of the Sony, I do not know about the HW20, but I'm getting rid of my HW10. It's a great projector for the money, but not for black or depth.
post #28 of 40
I have had my eye on the JVC HD250 for awhile now myself. Then today I went into my local dealer and saw an uncalibrated 9700UB. It looked pretty darn good to me. The only issue is, I haven't been able to find somewhere local to view the 250...

My choices are narrowed down to the 8700UB and 9700UB by Epson because I need somebody local to install it for me along with the JVC HD250...

This unit is going to compliment my Pioneer Elite 60" for movie watching in the living room..
post #29 of 40
Personally, I like the JVC's a lot, but I didn't think even the RS 20 POP'd quite as much as the Epson 8500ub or the Mits hc4000, but it did look better in every other respect. The JVC certainly looked more natural and life-like, and much better on darker scenes and the colors were slightly more vibrant, but if you like the super-sharp sort of 3dish pop-out of the screen look, both the Epson and the DLP still has a tiny edge on that one in certain scenes.

Never seen the hd250, only thing I don't like about the JVC's is the lower ANSI contrast, otherwise I'd probably fork out the extra $$$ for one.
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc
jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc
jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc jvc

Hmm........ so you're saying the JVC might worth a peek?
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