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"Reel Time" Build Log-14' Scope, 9.7 17,000W Transducer Audio, Dedicated Stadium Room - Page 4

post #91 of 368
Thread Starter 
Screen going up with first coat of many...



post #92 of 368
Thread Starter 
While MMan worked his magic on the screen, I worked on getting the racks in place and setting up the amps and shelves. Once we get the screen done, we'll concentrate on installing the transducers (all 52) throughout the room. Then we can hook up everything and crank it up.

Racks move back into the AV closet on the temporary rail system I made and sit on a platform.

Partially filled racks in their place:



Five 20A circuits to feed everything in the AV closet. Blue outlets on right provide power remotely from the closet to 1) Family Room TV & Closet, 2) Projector, 3) Rear Subs, and 4) Front Subs. The mounted three pieces of 1/2 EMT conduit vertically for wiring tie-downs.



Racks filled as I can get them now. Still need to add 1U panels with lights and temp gauge at top. Then add a 3U multi-fan panel to draw out air from front of racks since they'll sit behind sealed doors.

Still to go in... Yamaha AVR and Pioneer Plasma Controller for the family room, two DTV HD DVRs, Oppo BR, and XBOX. Still have some blank panel spaces for any future expansion.



Started cleaning up the wiring and getting the connectors all on.




Had enough for today! MMan is sweating me out with the room at a toasty 80 degrees to help speed the cure of the screen wall. Friday ended at 2:30am Saturday morning, so I'm done! Lots to come Sunday and Monday!
post #93 of 368
RedTopDown,

Thanks again for letting me and my son come "test drive" your seats from Roman! (They're excellent!) This is some thread. You have an amazing space coming to life there, and a beautiful home, too. Great work!!!

Come to think of it, I'll probably need another "test drive" of the seats in front of that massive screen in your fully finished room!
post #94 of 368
Steve -- looking great! I'm wondering if you figured out a way to remotely power on/off all those big Europower amps. Are any of your power outlets programatically controlled?

Bryan
post #95 of 368
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post

Steve -- looking great! I'm wondering if you figured out a way to remotely power on/off all those big Europower amps. Are any of your power outlets programatically controlled?

Bryan

Thanks!

Yes I did find a way. I picked up three Xantech 12v triggered outlets from Smarthome



http://www.smarthome.com/81301/Xante...let-AC1/p.aspx

I can either trigger these off of the AVR or my URC MSC-400.
post #96 of 368
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachurch View Post

RedTopDown,

Thanks again for letting me and my son come "test drive" your seats from Roman! (They're excellent!) This is some thread. You have an amazing space coming to life there, and a beautiful home, too. Great work!!!

Come to think of it, I'll probably need another "test drive" of the seats in front of that massive screen in your fully finished room!

Thank you. Coming along. I have to say I'm pretty fried from the looooong weekend. I'll be sure to put out an invite when the curtain opens!
post #97 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedTopDown View Post

Yes I did find a way. I picked up three Xantech 12v triggered outlets from Smarthome.

Thanks, good find!! Just ordered one for myself...
post #98 of 368
I am anxiously awaiting an update to this thread!

The transducer audio is one not much information is available on. There are mainly two points of views I see on it. One is it is junk from people who have never heard such system installed like this, and obviously MM loves it.

I also am considering a silver fire screen in my house when I get around to redoing the den / future theater room which hopefully is feb or march.
post #99 of 368
Thread Starter 
Okay, so now that MMan has headed back south to warmer weather and I have a chance to breathe, here's an update of our audio install.

Here are some shots of the actual transducer install process.


Two shots of one of the rear channels with four transducers mounted to the drywall. We added a horizontal batt to enclose the space since the rear subs sit below, and a batt in the back to decrease the depth a bit.






Two shots of one of the surround side channels. MMann's head is seen in the one! Two of the four transducers were mounted on a 3/4" cabinet-grade ply for more bass response. For each side surround channel, a total of eight transducers were used. The slack of the wire was pulled into the adjacent plenum to keep them off the AC line you see.






One more shot of some of the transducers in one of the front channels




We modified the layout a bit in the end and expanded the count of transducers from 52 to 56 with four on order for me to install now that I've learned from the master.

8 - Surround Rear L & R (4 each) - 1 EP2000
16 - Surround L & R (8 each) - 2 EP2000
16 - Right & Left (8 each) - 2 EP2000
8 - High Effects L & R (4 each) - 1 EP2000
8 - Center - 1 EP2000

56 transducers & 7 Berhinger EP2000 Amps

Three of the four channels of the other two EP2000's drive 12 tactile transducers mounted in three rows of four in the floor below each row.

My hands are still trying to recover from the cutting, stripping, and crimping! Here's my approximation of the effort they went through. Yes, I know... Boo Hoo... I wanted to add this all up for my own knowledge anyhow!

There's a 12ga wire from the amp to each group of four transducers to achieve a 2 Ohm load. So that's 14 "supply" lines. Each supply line is then connected to four short leaders going to each of the transducers in the array. There are two crimp connectors that are used to connect the transducer to those leaders.

140 Cuts
28 - 14 supply lines x 2
112 - 56 leaders x 2

140 Sheathing Strips
28 - 14 supply lines x 2
112 - 56 leaders x 2

280 Conducter Strips
56 - 14 supply lines x 4
224 - 56 leaders x 4

112 Connector Crimps
112 - 56 leaders x 2

That doesn't include re-working the channels a bit, connecting the leaders to the supplies, Neutrik connectors, ...

Okay, that's enough whining, right?

I'll put a review of the sound in another post.
post #100 of 368
Thread Starter 
Okay, now I have to admit that I went into this with no actual visit to an existing home or theater with a transducer-based audio setup. I did make a few calls to some of MMan's clients to get their opinions, but no one was really close to me for a visit. I drank the Kool-Aid based on their feedback and listening to the words and wisdom of MMan.

Let me tell you my thoughts leading up to the install and first listen - trusting but nervous. No matter how much I read up about transducers (little out there I know) and talked to MMan, I still couldn't get my mind around the fact that great sound would come out of a medium known as drywall! All my listening experience has been from standard speaker setups that we all know about.

Some recent online and print reviews of transducer systems (albeit MUCH, MUCH smaller and less planned out) didn't help me when they would say things like "don't expect great quality audio" and "it was just decent audio". Not what I was looking for at all. Now, these systems were nothing like we installed with 56 transducers properly wired to multiple amplifiers for a 2 Ohm load (see previous install post) and all in a design specific to the task.

Okay, enough of the dribble of my fears leading up to flipping the switch on the first amp!

So after finishing up our install on Monday, making some final connections, and having my 17 y/o lug up the four Outlaw subs (two of them monsters), we were ready to fire it up.

We started with the amp on the top which drove two rows of the tactile transducers in the floor. I flipped on the switch on the front of the EP2000 and POWWWWW! A large spark/arc went off inside the amp! That scared us right off the bat. After checking connections and some testing, we quickly determined that there was a defect in the amp itself. One amp DOA!

Needless to say, turning on the next amp was not easy given the first! But we pressed on! One by one we fired up the amps until it sounded like a small jet getting ready for take off in the room. Yes, as many of you know, they are not quiet. That's why they are going behind closed, sealed doors.

We set the gain at 50% on each amp and put in a movie to test everything out. Keep in mind that we have a raw room and I still need to seal the plenums behind for the front, effects, and center channels.

All I can say is that I was truly amazed! Sound was coming from everywhere around us in the room FROM THE DRYWALL. We did a little tweaking here and there, but we have yet to even start to do any calibration. I can't speak enough about how great everything sounds considering the raw nature of the room in its current state. We put in the movie "House of Flying Daggers" to the Echo Game scene to try a good test. If you know that movie and scene, there is very delicate sounds going on from beans rattling in a bowl to earrings tinging as the game begins. Then loud spurts begin as the drums get going and she begins to rap each drum in a repeating sequence. Everything was coming through clear and distinct and from all around us as the movie depicted.

We threw in some more movies, watching half of Rango and then all of Captain America. The dialog was very good, but definitely being affected by the open plenums. Going up to the screen wall you would hear the sound resonating from the drywall and if you got behind the wall you would hear the same sound in the chamber with a lot of echos. So sitting out in front watching the movie, the two sounds front and back were competing against each other and in some ways cancelening the other out. We'll get a big improvement when I close those plenums off.

After MMan departed on Tuesday, the family pulled out some cushions and piled on the floor to watch Green Lantern. I tweaked the channels a bit more as the movie rolled and the sound just kept getting better and better. I can only imagine what it will be like when the room is dampened with carpet, furniture, etc. AND we properly calibrate the whole system.

Finally, I'm not going to sit here and bash any system, traditional or not. Each to his or her own. Just a week ago I went to a highly-regarded local audiophile/HT dealer in town and sat in one of their theaters. The audio system alone was $50K+. No doubt, it sounded wonderful as we watched the Echo Game scene I talked about above. I can't properly compare the two since they have a perfectly treated room and calibrated system and I have a raw room, incomplete install, and uncalibrated system. Even with those major differences and listening to the same test, I'm perfectly happy with my decision to go with transducers. I have no doubt that after equalizing the room and system, the differences will be minute.

I have no doubt that my future guests will be blown away as I was and then starting looking around for the speakers. They will be quite shocked when they can't find any of them sitting in the room or masked behind cloth.

I look forward to updating everyone on sound tests as we move forward.

Thanks MMan. I'm glad I put my faith in you. You delivered!
post #101 of 368
Thread Starter 
Things are starting to back up to be done! With everything else to do and limited time available, I paid the extra to have FOSI drill and install the fibers in the 10' x 15' starfield ceiling. While the DIY'er in me was twisting and turning to do it myself, I just gave in after a lot of encouragement from the wife.

So the custom made ceiling had to come in its own custom made crate at just under 16' in length. It was huge looking even sitting on the back of a tractor trailer!



About 750 stars including the constellations. Here's the map layout.

post #102 of 368



Everything looks awesome! Congrats on the build so far. Subscribed.
post #103 of 368
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scl23enn4m3 View Post



Everything looks awesome! Congrats on the build so far. Subscribed.

Thank you!
post #104 of 368
Very interesting build. I looked at your thread a while ago and assumed that the transducer audio was referring to the floor transducers shown earlier. I didn't realize the extent of the transducer audio.

How do the transducers perform in terms of sound pressure levels? It seems that with that much power available and that much surface area you have the potential for a lot of displacement.

I'm really curious as to how large panels will perform for high frequencies. It seems like it would take tremendous amounts of power (which you have) to make that large of a surface move 15,000 - 20,000 times a second.

Also looking forward to the FOSI install. I just finished my FOSI ceiling installation (what a relief to have that done)

Suscribed to your thread.
post #105 of 368
Thread Starter 
Stockmonkey2000,

I wish I could answer those specific questions for you. I will let MMan jump in and give you the most precise answer.
post #106 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Very interesting build....

How do the transducers perform in terms of sound pressure levels?....

I'm really curious as to how large panels will perform for high frequencies.

+1

Interested as well.
post #107 of 368
I, also, didn't realize that "transducers" meant...the entire audio system? I know nothing about it and will continue to follow along and hopefully learn something! Glad to hear your enthusiasm for it after your first listening experience!
post #108 of 368
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123 View Post

I, also, didn't realize that "transducers" meant...the entire audio system? I know nothing about it and will continue to follow along and hopefully learn something! Glad to hear your enthusiasm for it after your first listening experience!

I spoke with MMan today and he'll be leaving some specifics on the whole transducer setup soon. He will leave the experience to me. I gave a review of what I can after tweaking the system for about 10 minutes. I still have two transducers to add to the left and right channels each since we changed the design mid-stream.

As I stated in my brief review, I'm very impressed with the system and amazed that drywall can produce sound of this calibre. I'm anxious to seal off the plenums for the front L/R, effects L/R, and center channels now and then do some more serious calibration. Still the room is quite hot with a lack of any soft/asborbing materials.

I'll keep everyone posted.
post #109 of 368
Ok Guys...here's the Skinny.

Audio Transducers such as the ones employed in RTD's system are decidedly simple things.

1. A 2.2 lb Alnico Ferrite Magnet Structure

2. A 1.5" Edge Wound Aluminum Vice Coil, which is both Frequency contoured, and heat dissipation assisted by the use of Ferro Fluid.

3. They are completely Sealed. Toss 'em in the Ocean for a year and no problem....they'll play just fine.

4. They are encased in a medium Density Composite Resin Plastic whose varying case thickness serves to both dampen and enhance Resonant Energy Transfer.

5. They come in 8 Ohm & 4 Ohm models. 200 Watts Max Output. 100 Watts Continuous.

6. Effective radial/hemispherical dispersion is 8' diameter from the epicenter of attachment.

History:

Curtis Rolen introduced the first effective Transducer designed to resonate "solids" in 1958. In 1962, the basic design still in use today was developed. Improvements on materials, casing design, the use of high temperature Adhesives, and the drastic improvements in Amp / Signal source performance in relation to cost to performance ratios have only served to make what has always been a unique item all the more effective.

That it gets no press, let alone "A/V Enthusiast" respect is due to the fact that it's primary market has been Industrial / Military applications. Also Medical. Also Artistic. And a lot of other things that have nothing whatsoever to do with this Thread, .

What is certain is that it's the efficiency at what the Transducer can actually do when attached to a wide range of solid materials that still have a degree of resonant ability is what makes it something that few have ever experienced...considered possible...and fewer still can even comprehend let alone accept.

But for me...that's where all the fun comes in!

My roots lay in the design and construction of big...as in BIG Sound Reinforcement Systems and PAs. Multiple Drivers in Multiple cabinets...the literal "Wall of Sound" concept. God knows I'm personally responsible for the destruction of many of my generation's Inner Ear Cilla.....and most obviously my own. For me, db Ruled.

I digress.

In Red Top's system, the creation of multiple Driver arrays to accommodate effective dispersion of energy into the room was/is the primary goal. This can be compared to the example of the original "Wall of Sound" first advocated by Julian Hirsch in 1964....where 12 - 5" Full Range speakers were mounted in a specific pattern onto a 8' x 6' Wall enclosure. That led to the use of multiple 12" Extended Range Drivers, Exponential Horns, and Rear Loaded Bass Horn Cabinets to create a uniform "Blanket" of sound in huge areas.

Ouch.

But those same ideas and concepts still hold fast to deep truths. Distribute energy evenly and efficiently across a wide area and both accurate frequency production and dispersion will produce a physicality and presence that is at one more natural and uncolored than most directional speakers.

That's why the very most expensive conventional speakers more oft than not employ "many" drivers arrayed to distribute sound in such a manner as to make perceiving "directionality" almost impossible.

The Audio Transducer accomplishes this by imparting accurately produced frequencies (35 hz -18.5 khz on Drywall ... 20 hz-20 khz on Glass ) into a structural Solid via a focused point, and then the frequencies themselves radiate outward, with the highest Freq. waveforms localized at the center, Mid Range freq. traveling out until they reach their own specific point of resonant saturation, and the Bass freq. traveling out to the perimeters of a surface where their resonant energy can rake advantage of the increased mass of such broader, wider expanses.

Compare a 8' diameter resonating surface to a 8" diameter Full range speaker and what you have is simply a super-sized version...something akin to the huge Driver whimsically portrayed by Robert Zemeckis in "Back to the Future" and blasted by Marty McFly . A silly analogy, yes...but essentially a good visual representation..

So what about Red Top's system? Well if one Transducer can effectively energize up to 8' in diameter of Drywall or Wood...or Fiberglass...or anything resonant, the how well will am array of 2...or 4...or 8 such devices accomplish the same goal? (Shoot....I've used up to 16 Transducers on a 16' x 9' Screen Wall!")

The key to creating something "out of this World" lies in making a structural solid resonate accurately. Bending it's molecular structure to your collective will by imparting just enough energy over a broad enough area to cause it's molecules to do exactly what you want them to do.....aurally speaking.

I have a couple analogies I've used a few times over the last 33 years to help explain why using greater numbers of transducers is not a lesson in redundancy...but rather a cause to an effect.

Using a quantity of such Transducers is a way of doing what a Choir accomplishes. If you take a single vocalist and place him in a Sanctuary, even one with excellent acoustics, he'll be able to only go so far as to filling that space with energy (ie: volume...presence)

Now have 7 other Choir members join him. No one is trying to sung any louder than the solo member was singing, but collectively, the energy imparted into the room produces a significant increase in volume due to the saturation of frequencies into the air. Add another 49 Choir members and....

Now as far as energizing a structural solid.....

Suppose your driving a full sized car along and at the bottom of a hill you run out of Gas. You try to push the car uphill, against resistance and gravity, to the Gas Station you know is just ahead at the Top. You might make it...but what a chore! But hooray! 7 of you Buds come along, lay hands on the Fenders and together you just about effortless move that car up the hill.

Well, brook no mistake, accurately resonating a solid's molecules at any real volume with a single Transducer is a Yeoman's task. Always has been. Background Music? Sure. Moderate entertainment levels? absolutely. Full blown high volume Home Theater or Critical Listening? Best not send a single Boy to do a Man's job. But call out the entire 5th Grade class and see how fast you get it done!.

So now I gotta explain the difference between db and SPL production. (...no more cute examples....I promise...)

The Transducer produces Resonant frequencies.
The Solid it's attached to accurately resonates to said frequencies.
The Frequencies spread out across the opposite surface the Transducer is mounted to, each specific frequency finding it's own specific saturation point where it resonates the molecules to that frequency. No Frequency interferes with another...no cancellation occurs (...when units are properly spaced...)
As the surface of the Solid resonates, the air (ie: volume & pressure) itself that lies against the resonating surface sympathetically resonates, and that imparted energy cascades outward in a chain reaction of resonant energy transference.

The Audio Transducer's 180 degree hemispherical dispersion creates what can be considered to be the most perfect example of a omnidirectional sound dispersion pattern that could be obtained from a flat planar surface. As such, very effective db levels can be obtained, levels that are not accompanied by the normally expected Sound Pressure Levels that would otherwise be expected from such decibel levels.

This decided lack of sound pressure means that many acoustic concerns and considerations are effectively negated to a great extent...if not indeed actually eliminated. (...The Transducer uses this ability to excel at the art of Sound masking...)

For Red Top, the purpose of the design was to deliver the maximum aural and physical presence possible, but at the most comfortable decibel levels. On the past I've used all manner of amplification t accomplish such tasks. Everything from lowly Pioneer and Panasonic Receivers to Sony's and Yamaha s. I've seen Harmon Kardon Citation Amps...McIntosh s...Carver Studio Grand...Krell...and a few European Esoteric s that cost as much as my last 2 cars combined.

But in the end, it's all about simply having enough "clean" power and reserve headroom to be able to deliver unadulterated, accurate amplified frequencies to the transducer, and then using the correct number of devices needed to energize the mass of the solids involved without over taxing a single unit, or trying to over saturate a material with too much focused resonant energy from a single unit or a combined array of the same.

Too whit, it's no stretch to be able to understand that "expense" does not always relate to "effect. Judicious choices of equipment combined with effective design, adequate construction, and yeah....a bit of a crazed desire to do what many feel is patently impossible, can combine to deliver something that defies the accepted conventions of the A/V world.

Hey....did I mention about the Painted Screen?
post #110 of 368
This is one incredible build. I've only heard of Transducer type audio, but never experienced it in all my years of Car audio, Home audio and Home theater. Weird there is not as many views, but I am sure watching this with interest.
post #111 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Hey....did I mention about the Painted Screen?

Not yet.....

In actuality, the painting of the 12' wide 16:9 Screen using S-I-L-V-E-R went very well, and pretty quickly. The resultant image was excellent.

But.....

The Primer undercoat, which went on via a Low Nap Roller prior to my arrival on-scene, re-introduced itself. Although RTD did a great job at rolling, and under a straight on examination before spraying the surface, and under normal lighting.... looked pristine, once the High Contrast S-I-L-V-E-R went on, across the top edge downward you could...under the PJ's light and with lightly hued content (Sky...etc,), see some vertical lines (roller marks) that came down into the image area about 6"-8". That's where most such marks occur because of uneven roller pressure, and in the case of such a flat white, if they are not an actual "tactile" ridge, it takes an additional layer of a darker paint to bring them out.

So at this conjecture we have a 2-3 options.

1. Wait for 3-4 weeks to see if the marks fade and frame in whatever dimension / format screen we want.

2. Spray Coat the surface with 3 coats of a ultra Dark Gray tinted Primer and then Re-prime with White and re-coat with S-I-L-V-E-R

3. Cover the wall surface with a Black Out Cloth or similar material and spray on a High performance coating. ***

*** RTD has determined just of late to go back to having a 2.35:1 CHI affair. That might mean the Roller Marks up top might not be any further issue (yay... )

Here is a collection of shots of the Screen in progress. Note the heavy Duty Air Exchange/Filter System! Suck---Whooosh!



Here are a few shots of the Screen in action:




Does it look good? Is it still worthy despite having a few streaks? You tell me.....and for reference note how the "Adult" people below are stretched out laying prone on a dusty Plywood floor for 2 hours watching Captain America, actin' like Kids up on the first Row of a Movie Theater.

That's Lovin' it....absolutely!



A side note to my previous post:

Please excuse me if my explanation of the Audio Transducer system seems a bit too "layman-esque". I'm driven by the experiences of the past and having to explain such stuff to individuals who are more than just a bit clueless. Well that, and the fact that those with a "clue' often discount such a application out of hand.

But even more so, I don't want to personally expound too greatly upon the aspects and attributes of RTD's Transducer system. That's for him to do...or not. His was essentially a DIY'er thing, with my presence more of a "Helping Hand" and Adviser than as a "Contractor". Lemmie tell ya sumpthin...RTD is the most "Hands On" individual I've ever combined forces with, and the Theater you see on this Thread.....90% of it is all his doing....his efforts built it. It's all more than just impressive....it's almost intimidating!

Anyone who wants any particular further illumination of the Transducer and it's workings may contact me via PM.
post #112 of 368
Thread Starter 
First, thanks to MMan for all his too kind comments in his last post. Only trying to make it all it can be! I'll do the hands-on grunt work to keep the experts like MMan focused on the big stuff!

MMan noted the vertical streaks that can be seen in the bright scenes. I thought I had rolled the primer to perfection, but I guess not. Sounds like prepping to get ahead screwed us up as the primer probably should have been sprayed on.

However, it looks like we will be doing a redo on the screen to support going back on my decision to have a large 16:9 screen and forgo CIH. MMan and I are still talking about it, but the best move may to go with a PJ with lens memory and have settings for zooming to 2.35, large 16:9, and a smaller 16:9 that will have a picture that won't be cut off by the front row seats/heads. More on that to come I guess.

I worked on filling the plenums of the center, left, right, and effects channels with batts and then closing them off with drywall. Pictures below show the batts with the cutout areas where the transducers are located. Pulled out all the insulation and left the paper.





I finished to late Monday night to test the sound improvement out. Got home late Tuesday and couldn't find time then either, but did have five minutes to step into the HT when my boys were watching a movie. I'm pretty sure it made a big improvement. Just didn't have enough time to full listen to it, and I "was distracting the boys and their movie!" I headed down to Ocean City, MD yesterday for the long weekend, so I'll have to post a review next week!

Back on the change to the HT for the screen size, I'm thinking I'll be going with (if we can make it all work!) a 2.35 size of around 14-15' wide. To make that work the front corner walls had to be cut back to allow more of the screen wall to be visible. In the pictures below, you'll see that we have more wall to prep and paint! I think it looks much better just in cutting back the walls to about 40" wide instead of just under 60". Here's a rough before and after look.

BEFORE



AFTER



BTW, the blue tape on the wall in the picture above denotes a 14', 14.5', and 15' wide scope screen. I can go 15' and still have ever seat in the HT see the full screen, so that's my max width. If I went the CIH route, I would want the 14.5' or 15' scope in order to get a 16:9 that was large enough for the room. If I go the zoom route, then I can expand and contract accordingly as needed.

One final update - I ordered all the trim for the room. Lots of baseboard, crown, and casing. With the tall ceiling and large room, I had to go with some beefy moldings. I've got lots of cuts coming my way with those wall bumps! Baseboard is one thing, but that crown will test my patience!

Finally, Happy Thanksgiving to all!
post #113 of 368
That has to be the most drywall screws I've ever seen applied to a wall. I am certin you will be battling carpal tunnel for years!

Awesome job. I love reading about "out-of-the-box" thinking. I bet it sounds fantastic.

Ben
post #114 of 368
Thread Starter 
52 transducers plus we relocated eight and had to fill back in those holes with screws. That's 6 screws times 60 so 360 total. So yes, lots of screws! My drywall finishing guy will not be happy and will think that I went nuts with a 12ga!
post #115 of 368
Hold on....Shock & Awe is coming.

Screen size is about to get bigger, and the Hardware options are changing to accommodate such.
post #116 of 368
WOW! Very cool project, watching closely
post #117 of 368
Thread Starter 
Sorry for the long time between updates (for anyone that might be following)! I've been mostly concentrating on all the wiring in the A/V closet and making everything neat and tidy in the racks.

I was running net cables and distributed audio cables also, and finally got my Sonos system set up this past weekend so the wife could have holiday music playing around the main level for holidays.

I also moved all of the equipment out of my family room into the rack, including the plasma TV controller, two DirecTV HD DVRS, and my trusty Yamaha AVR. That move required me to pull the TV down and route all the cables from the rack in the HT through the hard conduit I had installed. I also took the time to run a cable to control the TV IR without having to point the remote at the TV anymore. Everything else was RF controlled, but you always had to point at the TV to have it control anything on it. No longer!

Spent a good bit of time getting the family room remote, a URC MX-980, all set up the way I want it and in a layout that allows anyone in the family to operate it. It's so much better utilizing the URC MSC-400 controller to handle all the macros. Extremely reliable operation and fairly straight forward to set up.

Drywallers just finished the room, ending with sanding on Tuesday. So I have lots of dust in the room I need to tackle on Saturday before I do anything else. I'll be starting on the trim next. Photos of current state below:


Set up a dust wall in front of the A/V rack. Worked great!




Picked up the doors for the room entrance and the A/V closet. Both are solid core 1-3/4" doors




Shot of the front of the room




An early Christmas present to myself. Saw Dewalt's brand new 12" slider (DW780) was on sale with stand on Amazon and picked it up. Just in time for all that trim work!




Side Wall Shot




Dust wall I set up at the room entrance. Absolutely no dust in the house by using the exhaust system. Happy Wife - Happy Me!




All the trim sitting on top of the star ceiling. All waiting to go up!

post #118 of 368
Looking forward to seeing the star ceiling. Yours is the first I have seen here where the pre-made panels were purchased from FOSI. Just finished my star ceiling from FOSI a month ago and am really enjoying it and also very relieved to have it finished.
post #119 of 368
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

Looking forward to seeing the star ceiling. Yours is the first I have seen here where the pre-made panels were purchased from FOSI. Just finished my star ceiling from FOSI a month ago and am really enjoying it and also very relieved to have it finished.

Hopefully I'll be unpacking that big crate before too long! I read through your thread on the issues you had. That would have driven me nuts. I'm a huge DIY guy, but I needed to place my attention elsewhere just from a time standpoint. So I bit the bullet and went with the pre-made panels.

I'm anxious to see it myself. Stay tuned!
post #120 of 368
Thread Starter 
NO, you are not seeing double! Read on...



Okay, so I've gone back and forth on my PJ setup and screen size. I seriously doubt I'm the only HT builder here that has done that! The original plan was to have a 14' wide scope with an A-lens setup for CIH. Then I didn't like the 16:9 size I got for my viewing distance and room size and decided I would ditch the A-lens and CIH and go zoom with lens memory to support the scope size I wanted and the 16:9 size I wanted.

Of course, that meant I had to look for a PJ that had lens memory and that narrowed down the field. I was leaning towards the new JVC's, but I got concerned about some of the issues that still persist, and I'd be dropping some serious lumens. I just couldn't get behind the Panny, even the new one based on the reviews. The Epson 61000 - well, who knows if that will ever come about. Even with the Epson or JVC, I'm looking at $6-7K for a PJ, which is nothing to sneeze at - at least for me. The 61000 is 2D only and the 3D on the JVC is giving folks a lot of issues thus far.

So I went rogue, and started considering a dual PJ setup. While 3D isn't a huge item for me, I'd like to give it a good whirl. The 3D coming out of the new JVC's seems to be an issue and many are pointing to the DLP's if you want good 3D, like the HD33. Only issue there is you have no lens shift making it difficult to mount. Then I considered the idea of getting two identical PJ's that will support the following thoughts/needs:

1) High lumen output for the screen sizes I'm looking at (see below)
2) Very good darks/contrast
3) Decent 3D
4) One PJ dedicated to 2.35
5) One PJ dedicated to 16:9
6) Possible dual gun 3D setup for passive viewing

So with MMan's help again, we landed on pulling the trigger on the new Epson 6010. With a great price to justify getting it over the 5010, I get (from reports and reviews thus far) a great machine, two extra bulbs, two mounts, and four 3D glasses.

Now we'll need to work on the PJ mounting and throws, but this is my thinking right now. Based on the calculator on ProjectorCentral, I can have the two screen sizes I want and still have the throw distance and PJ position the same for each one.

Desired Screen Sizes:

2.35 Scope = 180" (15') wide x 77" tall, 196" diag
16:9 = 144" (12') wide x 81" tall, 165" diag

I can have the two PJ's at the exact same throw distance of, say, 20'-5" with the scope PJ at a 2.1x zoom and the 16:9 PJ at a 1.69x zoom. I can go +/- with that to stay away from the lens extremes, but you get the general idea. I'd have my setup to support the two viewing formats without any complication of A-lens, curved screen, etc. I have to keep it simple for the family to operate!

If I ever do go to a dual gun 3D setup, I've got the same PJ for each and I would just need to tweak the zoom of the scope PJ. Do some lens shift and viola! At least that's the basic idea.

I know I'd have to get up in the hushbox and change things around manually for this, but I can only imagine doing it for that big 3D event and then put everything back away. At least I have the option!

Well, that's where I'm at right now. MMan didn't get enough of us and is coming back into town between Christmas and New Years. We'll be redoing the screen, addressing some drywall and primer issues that came through the paint, and making it a lot bigger!

We've already been discussing some masking plans with fixed side panels for 16:9 and a single bottom mask panel for scope moving the image so there's only one bottom bar and not the typical top and bottom. Can't think too much about that right now.
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