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Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 4215
I picked up my RS50 today from AVS. So far so good ... well sorta at least.

My convergence is not real nice. Especially in the upper left hand corner. I need to try shifting pixels but that corner may not get much better. I haven't decided if it's a show stopper yet. I tried the AVS disk (I have version 1.3). If I pull up the grid with the dot in the middle the picture starts flashing. I'm thinking this is an inadequate HDMI cable - if I invoke deep color the frequency of the flashes increases.

Because I don't have a mount (come on Chief get 'em done) I have the pj sitting upright on a make shift stand and instead of only needing vertical shift I need horizontal shift (with a tad of vertical shift) instead. Perhaps the "MC" I'm seeing in the upper left corner is CA.....I will try taking some shift out to see if that changes anything. I will be burning a new copy of the AVS disk and have dinner before I get back to it.

Even with the MC, PQ is outstanding.....but over done (THX looks oversaturated as reported by others). I need to tweak color a bit.

I briefly looked for the video noise while looking at the grey ramp but it's certainly not visible from my seated position. I will take a closer look at that this evening.

I have had 3 HD TV's (a Pioneer CRT RPTV, a Sony SXRD RPTV, and a Samsung LCD). None of those come close to the PQ of the 50. The detail is awesome as is the black level....I knew there was a reason I wanted a pj...

I will not be viewing any 3D for the time being.....I have more than enough charged to my VISA this month and since I pay it off every month I'm not wanting to run up the tab until my statement closes in mid January. Since this is my 1st pj I can "stay entertained" with the outstanding 2D presentation.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #242 of 4215
Geof,

Regarding convergence, make sure you evaluate and adjust after leaving it on for 15 minutes. My convergence actually improves/changes in the first few minutes after switch on due to temperature. This apparently isn't all that unusual according to JVC but I hadnt noticed it before.

But my RS50/X7 isn't great. Horizontally, red deviates from perfect on one side to almost 1 pixel out at the other side top right corner. For some reason bottom right is not as bad. So with that in mind you would think it was 0.5 a pixel out in the centre? No strangely it isn't even a linear progression across the screen so actually centre is pretty close to perfect. Naturally pixel shift adjusting doesn't really help as it is not linear.

Due to the warm-up issue, convergence is actually worse for the first few minutes (deviating a little over a pixel in that nasty top right corner) but fortunately it really is only a few minutes.

Despite this, I can't see it from seated.

I wish it would be within 0.5 pixel over the whole screen but so far I have never been that lucky with any of my 3 JVC projectors. However, certainly acceptable for 2/3 of the screen including the centre....I guess it could be worse!
post #243 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Ok, call me crazy, but is there any possibility that it takes a minute or two for the glasses and projectors to "fully" sync?

In more than a few cases, from cold boot, I seem to see a little ghosting, as reported (low percentage of entire film, and minimal ghosting even within that percentage) Yet after a few minutes, that little ghosting diminishes even further.

I've noticed it, my son called me yesterday to complain about "more" ghosting in COD right after booting the system than we first saw together when the system had been on for a while (and then he later texted me that it looked "better" as he was playing), and at least one other member here who has the 50 noticed this and mentioned it in a phone call to me.

It's ultimately not a serious issue at all, but I'm curious what this effect is if it's "real." I suppose our eyes could get "used" to the effect after a few minutes, but I re-watched certain segments where I did see a little ghosting shortly after watching, and tended to see even less when the system was on for a bit. And I never saw diminishment with my 90, so physiology seems less likely.

So could there be a ramp up time for optimal sync, or something in the projector optics that work better after a short warm up period for 3D?

Subtle, but curious...


I experienced the same thing Greg. When I first turned on my projector and started IMAX Under The Sea, I noticed some heavy ghosting in the opening scene. I paused the movie, checked the position the emitter, hit play again and the ghosting was gone. I'm guessing repositioning the emitter didn't do anything but perhaps the 1-2min it took for me to do that allowed the glasses to sync up. Either that or repositioning the emitter fixed it (which I doubt).
post #244 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post


This is my point regarding these RS50s being calibrated right now with hardly any hours on and also why I think paying to have them calibrated prior to delivery is not worth paying for (unless it's free, as at least it'll give a more usable image while you're waiting for the hours to clock up prior to getting a calibration in the room it's going to be used in).

Jeff, rather than pay a guessing game regarding what you found lacking with the THX mode, what was it you thought was wrong with it OOTB? If the User mode has to be set up for a proper calibration, then fair enough but surely the point of the THX mode is to give people something to start with? For owners like MNTwister they need some idea of a starting point...if it's a little way off then it will make an eventual calibration look all the better.

Both THX modes had bad color and gamma, but were radically different in direction. There was no trend at this time.

Assuming the unit that was previously calibrated with low hours was the cause if the change in performance is a mistake. Time will cause some shift in any product, but it is never like that. How you setup a system is much more important than when.
post #245 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Ok, call me crazy, but is there any possibility that it takes a minute or two for the glasses and projectors to "fully" sync?

In more than a few cases, from cold boot, I seem to see a little ghosting, as reported (low percentage of entire film, and minimal ghosting even within that percentage) Yet after a few minutes, that little ghosting diminishes even further.

I've noticed it, my son called me yesterday to complain about "more" ghosting in COD right after booting the system than we first saw together when the system had been on for a while (and then he later texted me that it looked "better" as he was playing), and at least one other member here who has the 50 noticed this and mentioned it in a phone call to me.

It's ultimately not a serious issue at all, but I'm curious what this effect is if it's "real." I suppose our eyes could get "used" to the effect after a few minutes, but I re-watched certain segments where I did see a little ghosting shortly after watching, and tended to see even less when the system was on for a bit. And I never saw diminishment with my 90, so physiology seems less likely.

So could there be a ramp up time for optimal sync, or something in the projector optics that work better after a short warm up period for 3D?

Subtle, but curious...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I experienced the same thing Greg. When I first turned on my projector and started IMAX Under The Sea, I noticed some heavy ghosting in the opening scene. I paused the movie, checked the position the emitter, hit play again and the ghosting was gone. I'm guessing repositioning the emitter didn't do anything but perhaps the 1-2min it took for me to do that allowed the glasses to sync up. Either that or repositioning the emitter fixed it (which I doubt).

Is this with the JVC's, the Xpands, or both?
post #246 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Is this with the JVC's, the Xpands, or both?

Both
post #247 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Both

Thanks!
post #248 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
Is this with the JVC's, the Xpands, or both?
I only have the JVC's
post #249 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post
Hello Everyone,

There is a firmware update for the RS50/X7 & RS60/X9 that addresses 3D Blu-ray player compatibility.

There is a separate firmware update for the RS40/X3. This addresses the situation that occurs when changing the Gamma from the remote in the 3D mode. It also addresses 3D Blu-ray player compatibility.

You can find the firmware updates here:
http://support.jvc.com/consumer/custrel/index.jsp

You will notice there are two links. One is to a document that explains how to do the update via the USB connection on the projector. The other link is for the actual firmware.

Chris
Chris - thanks for the updates. It is great to see JVC being so proactive about getting these firmware updates out there.

There has been some reports questioning the CMS functionality of the RS50. Calibrator "umr" reported that he had troubles using the CMS on one RS50 - I think it was not saving his settings or otherwise not operating right. Then he calibrated another unit and said it worked much better. And UK user Jon is reporting that some of the CMS controls do not seem to be responding, and in some cases the gain/offset controls are not displaying.

Of course that is just preliminary info from a few units, but it seems odd that some units seem to be working differently. Is it possible these units have different firmware?
post #250 of 4215
Here is a representative sample of convergence....(the projector has been on for 45 min or so)

Curiously this same screen flashed with my earlier version of the AVS 709 disc. I burned the new version and it's not flashing at all now...

Doesn't look very good to me.....
LL
post #251 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
Here is a representative sample of convergence....(the projector has been on for 45 min or so)

Curiously this same screen flashed with my earlier version of the AVS 709 disc. I burned the new version and it's not flashing at all now...

Doesn't look very good to me.....
Looks like 'pixel shift' could improve this significantly.
post #252 of 4215
Here's the firmware info:
Code:
Model:       XHC
Main:        201010291
Sub:         2010.11.11.1-0
Switcher:    2010.10.19.1
CMS:         2010.11.8.1
Color:       0.910
DD:          0A0F0A
Driver:      4300
Location:    US
EDIT: This is out of the box....I have not applied the new Firmware that Chris discussed earlier.
post #253 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
Here is a representative sample of convergence....(the projector has been on for 45 min or so)

Curiously this same screen flashed with my earlier version of the AVS 709 disc. I burned the new version and it's not flashing at all now...

Doesn't look very good to me.....
Geof,

Try using the Pixel Shift function to shift red up one notch. Does this help?

Where did you get your unit from? Hopefully your dealer will make it right if it comes to it.

Is this photo from the center or edge of the screen or where? Also try to post a few more pictures but taken from even closer to the screen. Generally you should be able to get a decent in focus shot from about 1.5 feet away.
post #254 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post
Looks like 'pixel shift' could improve this significantly.
I thought so too but I could not improve it (I do have Horizontal Blue shifted 1 step).
post #255 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Geof,

Try using the Pixel Shift function to shift red up one notch. Does this help?

Where did you get your unit from? Hopefully your dealer will make it right if it comes to it.

Is this photo from the center or edge of the screen or where? Also try to post a few more pictures but taken from even closer to the screen. Generally you should be able to get a decent in focus shot from about 1.5 feet away.
Shifting Red up makes it worse.
The photo was near the edge of the screen but the center is similar.
I picked it up from AVS today, I will discuss this w/Jason to get his take on it.

The problem I noted earlier in the upper left corner seems to be related to lens shift.....I have a lot of Horizontal shift engaged at the moment. Without moving the pj I "unshifted" and that corner got better but the rest of it stayed about the same.
post #256 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
Shifting Red up makes it worse.
The photo was near the edge of the screen but the center is similar.
I picked it up from AVS today, I will discuss this w/Jason to get his take on it.

The problem I noted earlier in the upper left corner seems to be related to lens shift.....I have a lot of Horizontal shift engaged at the moment. Without moving the pj I "unshifted" and that corner got better but the rest of it stayed about the same.
What's your viewing distance? Can you see fringing with movie credits (non-scrolling) or game (i.e. PS3) text?
post #257 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Geof,

Also try to post a few more pictures but taken from even closer to the screen. Generally you should be able to get a decent in focus shot from about 1.5 feet away.
I will work on this some more tomorrow, and I'll take some more photo's. One thing that is sort of misleading is this is a pretty extreme closeup. I'm going to throttle down the focal length a bit and use a razor sharp Nikon Macro lens. I also want to touch up the pj position to get it a bit more squared up (although that's not horrible now). You're a lot smarter about this stuff than I am so helpful suggestions will be most welcome. In the meantime I gotta just watch a movie...
post #258 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
I will work on this some more tomorrow, and I'll take some more photo's. One thing that is sort of misleading is this is a pretty extreme closeup. I'm going to throttle down the focal length a bit and use a razor sharp Nikon Macro lens. I also want to touch up the pj position to get it a bit more squared up (although that's not horrible now). You're a lot smarter about this stuff than I am so helpful suggestions will be most welcome. In the meantime I gotta just watch a movie...
I wouldn't say smarter. Just perhaps more experienced with this type of issue, unfortunately. Yes, if you can take a photo with a sharper camera that would be even better. Some folks (in the past) have taken razor sharp images up close where you could actually see the pixel structure and judge the amount of misconvergence from it. Take some shots from the center and off center. And take a few close ups of the single pixel (or what is supposed to be a single pixel) inside a grid box or two.

Hopefully it is not noticeable when you play games or watch a movie or have on-screen text. Try to relax and enjoy a movie. Let us know how it goes.
post #259 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post
Geof,

I wish it would be within 0.5 pixel over the whole screen but so far I have never been that lucky with any of my 3 JVC projectors. However, certainly acceptable for 2/3 of the screen including the centre....I guess it could be worse!
Same thing (but vertical instead of horizontal) with my HD750. So its not an issue specific to the new JVC's. Just the luck of the draw.
post #260 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post
Here is a representative sample of convergence....(the projector has been on for 45 min or so)

Curiously this same screen flashed with my earlier version of the AVS 709 disc. I burned the new version and it's not flashing at all now...

Doesn't look very good to me.....
If it bothers you, you should probably return the unit and get another one. You'll unlikely to get an refurbished unit as these don't even have sufficient new stock
post #261 of 4215
Here are my convergence photos. There is something strange the camera is doing to the horizontal lines that makes them look jaggy and I don't know why. The camera also seems to heighten the convergence error somehow. It actually looks a little less in reality.

But you can get a fair idea of the convergence on my projector. This is using the AVS test disc which has very small squares, so this is covering a much smaller area of screen than you might think. The photos were taken at about 1.5 feet away using a 50mm lens.

What do you think?

In order, Centre, Top left, Bottom Left, Bottom right, Top right
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
post #262 of 4215
Centre section taken at 2.5 feet away.
LL
post #263 of 4215
Jon, that close up of the centre one looks worse than my HD350 when I'm using my Isco lens. Trouble is I only have a point and shot type camera (in fact it's not even mine, but my OH lets me borrow it). I don't know if it's worth me even trying to take a picture, but I do have that same disc and test pattern.
post #264 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Jon, that close up of the centre one looks worse than my HD350 when I'm using my Isco lens. Trouble is I only have a point and shot type camera (in fact it's not even mine, but my OH lets me borrow it). I don't know if it's worth me even trying to take a picture, but I do have that same disc and test pattern.

The thing is in reality that centre close-up doesn't look so bad. I mean that is really a close -up shot. It looks well within 0.25 of a pixel to me when I stick my head close to the screen there. I think the picture is exaggerating it a bit, and that strange jaggy effect on the horizontal line doesn't help.
post #265 of 4215
I'll try a quick pic later for comparison as I'll be enjoying a few films tonight as I'm stuck inside avoiding the snow. Maybe mine will look worse by the time they're compressed onto the forum. Also my setup is a very long throw which I think helps in terms of sharpness if not in convergance of course.
post #266 of 4215
Kelvin, have a look at these photos. I think the AVS ones make everything look a lot worse somehow than reality.

This is the DVDO Duo single pixel grid 50 IRE

Just centre and top right (worst) images here now. Same camera, same lens, distance 1.5 feet. This looks much more like I see it, although there is blue bloom on the top right image that seems exaggerated here as well.
LL
LL
post #267 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Kelvin, have a look at these photos. I think the AVS ones make everything look a lot worse somehow than reality.

I have noticed this happen with some patterns but not the AVS patterns. I think that some patterns may not be true 1080p patterns or maybe the player is not in a dot-for-dot mode.

Your shots had me scared but these more recent ones look much better and, I think, are probably typical for JVC units that I have seen in the past.
post #268 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Doesn't look very good to me.....

. . . or to me either.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, make sure that your player is in a dot-for-dot mode and not applying any kind of scaling.

Single pixel 1080p shots are only properly displayed if the player is not scaling and is outputting a true 1080p image. If it is not, the projector will scale it (or the player will) and things will not look as they should.

If everything is as it should be, I would drive back to AVS.
post #269 of 4215
This is the in-built convergence test in the JVC projectors. I always use this to really evaluate and I find it the most "telling".

You can see it matches the DVDO Duo white grid images.
LL
LL
post #270 of 4215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

....
Your shots had me scared but these more recent ones look much better and, I think, are probably typical for JVC units that I have seen in the past.

Yeah ....
The truth is that JVC never will come across the problem in mass production units and, as usual, will be necessary the "manual" selection by dealers that will/can do this or point at top model where hand picked parts let have a good starting point and got a bit more checked unit class.

In my experience, last year I saw and selected several RS25, one excellent, many very good but much more in the middle zone value .... while RS35 were almost all excellent ...

3 Chips alignment seems like to be an odissey .... and far away to hit the perfection ....
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