Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 11

Actually, I have really good news for you (and everyone interested in the RS40/50). This pattern looks excellent! Well, I should say its far from perfect, but it is by far the best I've seen yet on the RS series (I've seen this pattern on several different RS1 and RS20 units - no RS25/35's though so I can't say what the leap forward is from the last generation, but from the first and second generation pjs it is substantial).

Regarding the ability for the Detail Enhance to improve the pattern - the reason I believe this is not making a difference is because even at 0 it is resolving with a high degree of detail. So applying more is not adding benefit. But that's ok, because at least with this pattern no detail enhance appears to be necessary. That being said, I still recommend playing with this on real world still images to see how much it helps and without having anything else to go on I'd say to leave it between 10-30 unless you see detrimental affects from using it. In the past I haven't seen any, unlike with the Sharpness control (which I've never used past 10).

With the RS1 and RS20 the spokes leading into the center only has fine resolution about half way down toward the center. Then they started to blur, and by the time they came even close toward the center it was all blurred over. No details spokes could be seen as it moved toward the center - the detail was lost.

With the RS1 and RS20, as you raised the Detail Enhance from 0, the spokes started to get more defined and reach further into the center. Never, however, coming close to holding their definition into the center like shown in your pics. Once Detail Enhance got to about 30 the spokes were as defined and as far reaching as they were going to get, and raising it further didn't improve things further.

With your photos, you can clearly see the spokes keep their definition all the way down to the point where the end in the center. And you are saying this is how they look even with Detail Enhance at 0? This is indeed excellent!

Also with the RS1 and RS20, there was far more pink and green hues visible in the pattern, especially from the middle area of the spokes on down. I thought I had photos but can't find them. I may have posted these a couple years ago. I'll look around.

Anyway, with yours you can see that it is far from being black and white (gray) only and does have some color contamination. However it is remarkably improved from past generation units.

Since I did not see these patterns on an RS25/35 - if anyone has an RS25/35 and can take a photo of this pattern (from the AVS HD 709 calibration disc), please upload it so we can compare. This will help us gauge whether there has been a substantial improvement in detail resolution over the RS25/35, or if its been an incremental improvement over that, but substantial over the generations before that (RS1 / RS20).

I have asked many people including industry experts on and off over the years as to what causes this color contamination in this pattern on the JVC units. No one seems to know. One theory is that it is from the convergence or CA. Another theory has to do with processing. It is also possible that this plays a role in the zebra-stripe fringing issue.

The pattern is supposed to look purely black and white. I know it does on my 2006 Sony DLP RPTV. I think I recall my new Samsung plasma shows it black and white only, maybe with a tad of the color contamination. I'll try to post a pic from that.

At any rate, the bottom line is that IMO the improvement shown in this pattern over previous generations is indeed excellent. This also backs up the impressions reported by several people now that the RS40/50 is noticeably sharper than the previous generations. Clearly it is resolving more detail, Excellent indeed!

Ah, ok I went back and read your message closer - I see where you did say you shifted blue. Sorry I missed it. Can you take one more convergence shot but this time with the pixel shift set (or not) to the position where it yields the best results. Take the shot of the center. I'd like to see how good it is. With your horizontal shift now centered and the pixel shift put back to normal for blue, I bet its going to look yummy.


I have info on this I'll post in the mount thread shortly. Less than two weeks so hang tight.

Wow G-man... I can't believe you got it so fast (awesome)! How long was it round trip for you? Were you able to meet Jason or anyone over there? Great to hear overall your'e happy but I sure hope the MC issue is a not permanent condition.

My 50 shipped Thursday and I was really surprised to find out the tracking showed two day delivery to Chicago. I got so excited to find when I woke up today both the PJ and 3D kit (two JVC's & two X's w/ emitter), showed "Out for Delivery".

I spent most of the day reconfiguring the theater's drop ceiling with the RPMAU mount & CMS440 suspended ceiling kit (pretty cool too as it sits on the ceiling rails about 1/8" above the ceiling tile.), but can't mod the mount until I put the universal legs on the PJ.

I cut a center hole in the tile and got everything reinstalled. It really turned out sharp when you route the cables through the pipe so that only the Peerless adjustable pipe (6-9" drop) looks to be coming out of the ceiling (I'll take some pics next week). The kit also came with a silver finishing ring that that butts right up to the black ceiling tile.

Well... I came upstairs because being 4:00pm already I was surprised that FedEx hadn't shown up yet. To my shagrin I found that the status of the shipment went to "Exception", (WTF does that mean!?). I called FedEx and they said they were "sorry" but it looks like the shipment was "delayed" and would be delivered the next business day! When I asked the FedEx lady how a status could go from "Out for Delivery" to "Next business Day" she said she didn't know.

So now I'm sitting here with nothing and nobody can tell how the hell a $6K package could be on a truck one minute and Not be [on it] the next. I sure hope it didn't get damaged or stolen!

But do you forget about it 10 minutes into the movie Jon (or are there constant reminders throughout)??

Wow, vut a pain-n-z butt! You would think with built in LAN that we could get our updates that way.


Geof/Lovingdvd - How can I tell what version I have for the AVCHD disc (I just downloaded the .iso Tuesday evening).

Thanks!
Kevin

if anyone is looking for a cheap and effective way to extend the usb cable to update their projector I use these which work pretty good. One of the cables I first got was defective but they replaced it no questions asked.

I've been using them on a daily basis for about a year now. I actually have two 32ft cables coupled together.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...+cable&x=0&y=0

Just one last quick comment before bed....this is the most 3D 2D has ever looked to me (I hope that reads as smartly as it sounds in my head ). Images have an incredible amount of depth. Never seen Planet Earth like this before...

Oh, make that 2 comments:
Ric,
I've got to fess up and say I used the version 2 disc for those images (and, fwiw, this screen is in a different location on the v2 Disc).

I ended up watching about 20 minutes of avatar 3d tonight so far and I am stunned and how good it is. Mesmerizing really... You see things you never noticed in the 2d version, and it is so much better than the theatrical 3d I saw...

And so far not a hint of even the most minor ghosting - I don't know if it's Cameron's stereoscopic rig he invented or what, but it's remarkable so far.

The problem is it makes you wonder why all titles cannot be this way.

I watched Despicable Me and while not bad, it had a bit more ghosting that other titles, even more than cloudy with a chance of meatballs. I was beginning to make the correlation that the brighter the title the more ghosting, but avatar is plenty bright, with plenty of high contrast edges, and I'll be damned if you can find anything (to the extent that I've watched)

For Despicable Me and Avatar, I could easily run in normal lamp at minus 7 or 8 iris. After watching these last titles, iI would almost say titles like polar express and a christmas story, whie excellent in many ways, do not seem mastered with optimal brightness or gamma setting for home 3d viewing.

I hope it's OK to post these here as they are in response to JonStatt's RS50 convergance pictures from yesterday of my HD350 with and without the Isco II lens. However, it was late and having watched a couple of films and consumed a nice bottle of Chardonnay I wasn't very organised as to which shots I needed to take. It's only an old Pentax Optio S5i point and shoot, the only control I managed to alter was to turn the flash off.

The pictures are named, but there are a couple taken with the Isco still in place (you can tell that the patterns are 33% wider). For some reason (wine? ) the shots of the centre of the screen were blury, so not included, though they don't seem any different in terms of convergance, it seems to stay pretty constant across the screen. Note also that I have some vertical lens shift engaged as my projector is level with the top of the screen.

Again sorry for the off topic, but just to show how an older model can compare to the latest and greatest ones.

It's not really off topic. Many of us are interested in what JVC is doing with its panels and also with manufacturing tolerences that go into convergence.

So far, it does not seem like the new JVCs are doing anything dramatically different than the old ones. Pixel structure seems the same and ditto for manufacturing tolerences.

The jury is still out on whether the new way the panels in the newer models are driven is better or worse. Noise has been reported by a few people but some know artifacts from past models are reduced or eliminated. I think we need to get some consensus of whether the trade-offs are good ones or not.

Thanks for this Kelvin. I don't know how much the Isco lens worsens things but looking at those pics it doesn't seem to be wildly different from mine with the same test patterns. I think yours is a bit better, but I haven't seen your centre pics. After mine warms up you can see from the Duo test screen photos it is well within 0.5 pixel in the centre and within a pixel at the worst. This seems typical of JVCs and the new models have clearly not improved on it whatsoever. Geoff's one seems to be out in blue which is a much better colour to have a problem with than red. I can see your red is roughly in-line on the left side while being about 0.75 of a pixel out on the right side.

It seems to be a typical problem to have a deviation of 1 pixel that varies across the screen. There if you are lucky it will start 0.5 a pixel to the left, and finish 0.5 a pixel to the right making the centre bang on. But as in yours, and mine, it is correct at one side, mean the centre is a little off, and ther side the worst.

It is a lottery.

Going back to the AVS test pattern. I realise now due to the way I went so close for the photo that it is deceiving. If you look at the centre image, and you see the isolated pixel dot, you can see the 3 colours diverging a bit. Allow for this being exaggerated by the "bloom" effect you get with a camera, if you consider actually how much deviation that really is, you will see its less than 0.5 a pixel. It is because I cropped and blew up the image so much, that you are seeing it at a level the human eye itself does not!

Your point is the really valid one. And no I don't see it from seated at all with one exception. When I first switch it on and the convergence is a bit worse and there is writing in the top right corner, I can "just" notice it

But seriously, it seems a non-issue. But reading these forums starts to make it an issue again These forums should come with a health warning!

The thing that people might have forgotten is that the lenses were so inferior on the RS1, that 1 pixel of MC was compounded by the optics. The lens couldn't focus properly on all 3 colours, so red was fatter than green. Add in some CA and you easily got horrible fringing.

The new lenses don't seem to suffer much CA at all, and hold good focus on all 3 colours. So 1 pixel of MC at a normal recommended seating distance is simply not visible!

Having said that, my concern with convergence is other people's obsessions with it. If I come to sell the projector in the future, I don't want that problem to be a barrier to my sale and next upgrade.

I've tested several hundred HD1s/100s/350s/750s/550s/950s/990s/X3/X7s and I've not found a completely perfect one yet. The tolerance is a lot tighter on the newer models, but the limits of the technology and alignment mean that some misconvergence is inevitable. When you consider that the ILA panels that generate the image are around 0.7" in size, getting the alignment accurate to a couple of pixels is pretty amazing.

The AVS shipping center is a 3.5 hour round trip drive. Amazingly the trip home seemed to go faster with the RS50 sitting in the front seat...

I've had those last minute delivery hiccups and man does it suck. Instead of having the weekend to play it becomes a weekend of waiting and wanting. Once I read the "Out for Delivery" status the anticipation cranks up a notch. Being teased at the last minute by reading the "Delivery Exception" Status makes ya want to throttle the guy who screwed up... But you'll be firing it up soon now....

I wrote the AVS Disc version number on the disc when I burned it but I think the version number shows on the disc menu (I could be wrong).

[quote=Geof;19671221]Here are the shots.....not the best but usable I think. Things are starting to "go wrong" here so it's time for me to slip into the movie watching mode.

I could not adjust Detail (or Sharpness) in User Mode 1 so I switched to Cinema mode. I stood right next to the screen and changed detail from 0 to whatever the upper limit is and saw no change....same with sharpness.....like I said stuff is fighting me tonight....regardless, I set both Sharpness and Detail to 20 for the photos. The first one is at 12' QUOTE]





A comparison from an RS10 sharpness 30 Detail Enhancement 30 - 12` from screen.

The first two convergence images are pretty representative of how convergence looks across the entire screen. I'll try to take a shot of the center when I fire up the pj later today.

Thats great news about the improved performance with that pattern. I'd like to see what it looks like on an RS25 or 35. I'll take a look at it with the version 1.3 disc to make sure it looks the same (if it's not I'll post an image).

TOE,
Thanks for the confirmation. I like consistency!!

Alas,
Last night I was plagued with breakups for both HDMI sources...a DirecTv DVR and an Oppo 93 BD Player. I didn't have any issues with the Oppo before the firmware update...I will try it's other HDMI output to see how that works. Both runs use 30' HDMI Cables from BlueJeansCable (24AWG Tartan series, per their recommendation). I have ordered a 22AWG Monoprice cable to see how that works. I sort of expected issues with the DirecTv DVR since BJC indicated this is a known issue. I did not expect any issues with the Oppo tho. In addition to trying the other Oppo HDMI output I will move the player and try a 6' cable to see how that works.

Interesting Kevin....I don't see any color in that image at all...did you desaturate it or convert it to B&W??

Just snapped a shot to show resolution differences. Fullscreen shot.

Thanks B-a-B; got one ordered!

Thanks Kevin. Interesting you have that great detail with an RS10. Don't recall seeing that level of detail with that generation of projector. Then again I never looked at it with Sharpness set above 10 because it add objectionable ringing to images beyond 10 IMO. If you take Sharpness down to 10 (but leave Detail Enhance at 30) do you loose some of the resolution toward the center.

Also it seems you have more pink and green hues radiating out from the center compared to Geof's shot, even though Geof's shot shows much more color in general - wonder if that is the camera.

Geof have a look at Kevin's shot. See how it looks more like black and white (despite the hues radiating from the center)? Does yours look like this in person and your camara is causing the warm tones in your overall photo, or is your photo pretty representative of what you see in person?

Yes if i lower sharpness to 10 the centre lose detail. I also have my PJ mounted 6`10" on a shelf so have to use a lot of vshift which may also decrease res.

Yeah the initial realization of not getting it this weekend was a real buzz-kill but once I got the new cables and Oppo93 installed in my rack, I was able to use the new mount for my old Sharp 20Ku and we watched The A Team last night. That helped to dampen my new PJ sorrows!

OT - Man that movie was one of my fav's of the year! While as you would expect a shallow story, the action, special effects and especially the audio transfer was fantastic! I have two in-wall Klipsch subs and 4 buttkickers and H.S. that movie destroyed the room; almost to the point of bottoming everything out... WoW!

Jon - I guess as Gary states this is just something to expect with ILA technology huh . . . just depends how bad?? Coming from 8 different Sharp's, most recently DLP technology, seems weird that these type panels are so susceptible to heat.

So before calibrating this machine is recommended to let it warm up for 5, 10, 15 minutes or so (until UMR makes his trip to Chicago in March; then I'll bet set!)

At this point I will look at it again (later today).

my room is about 64-65 degrees before I put the heat on. I am noticing a good 30 minute warm up time is necessary to reduce the flickering / ghosting I am seeing on the RS40 in 3D mode from a cold start. An hour later, it's almost imperceivable. I have a high power screen and believe it stands out more on this screen.

I let it warm up for about 30 minutes today and jumped right into Monsters v Aliens and the 3D was fine. strange but true.

Maybe there's a market for a tiny radiator to keep the chip warm - like an engine block heater for cars on winter days.

Seriously, I doubt a warmer room would make much difference. The heat being generated by the lamp would be much greater than minor room temperature differences.

So now we need a warm-up period for convergence and 3D. Sounds like the good old CRT days.

My 3D LCD monitors also have a warm up period if that helps. After about 20 minutes the ghosting is greatly reduced. Sony also decreased in ghosting after some time also. Only the Acer needs no warm up for 3D, but does need about 5-10minutes to properly focus after starting it.

Anyone know if this port works as an IR repeater input to connect to an IR/RF controller like the URC MSC400? According the the manual it uses a stereo mini jack. I'm guessing a stereo to mono min jack will work?

I don't think its related to convergence, but there was a sheet of paper in my box with my X7/RS50 warning that the picture may look "unnatural" for a few minutes after switching on. But it doesn't specifically state in what way. I am assuming it is referring to colour balance/tone

From what I've seen as with all other mini-jack rs232 connections a stereo cable should work when connecting from your block to the PJ.

No dice. Just programmed my remote and it's not working. I'm guessing that jack must designed to work with an external IR eye only. Sucks...

I'll look into programming using rs232 but I wonder if it's active for remote control functionality right now. Anyone try the rs232 port yet?