Official JVC RS-50 Owner's Thread - Page 16

Just to be clear on the firmware update. It is a waste of time at the moment unless you have a Panasonic 3D blu-ray player. It has NO other changes. It will not affect HDMI handshake times.

There will be further firmware updates because for sure we are finding some bugs. I have found 3 definite ones so far.

Thanks for the info, it will save me some time. My player is the Oppo 93.

Well, would be good, once proved to be a Bug, to make an updatable post with the list of All of them ..... To take track of them and simply address them to JVC Guys that read these topics

I wanted to give an update re my calibration attempts.

Although I did run into some CMS bugs which confused me, a large part of the problem is my meter has become faulty. I was using a Calman enhanced spyder 3. It seems to have deviated so far from correct that it is basically useless.

After a lot of frustrations I pulled out my i1 display 2 instead.

After calibrating greyscale which after 90 hours on the bulb was showing dEs (1974) of around 9 from d65 with green being the strongest, blue a bit lower and red as expected the weakest by quite a long way. This meant dialling in gains of around -20 for green and blue, and offsets of -10 for red and green.

Then when checking the gamut, would you believe all colours were around a dE (1994) of 1 or less! In other words I wouldn't even bother doing anything. However I did check I could see movement on hue/saturation/brightness sliders where I had problems previously. In fact saturation doesn't have much movement rightwards for red at all unless you increase brightness. But the controls do seem to be working as expected.

So the main focus on calibration for me will be greyscale which of course will throw-off the gamma.

I notice on AVforums, another X7 owner actually had red being the highest out of the box, and being pretty close to bang-on D65!! I have never seen that before. I always tend to see the green and blue being signficantly higher than red. But of course in his case its a brand new bulb. I wish I had measured out of the box to see how much red shifts as the bulb clocks up the hours.

+1

What are the bugs you guys are noticing? The big one for me is the green flash on part of the screen that occurs when I switch inputs HDMI 1 or 2, or start a disc it has happened a few times.

Well we just discussed the fact that sharpness and detail don't work on User presets.

The other 2 I noticed I mentioned earlier in this thread are both to do with calibration. And they both concern pressing the OK button to make the sliders move to the bottom of the screen. In greyscale adjustment it doesn't correctly cycle through all of the gain/offset options. After choosing any offsets, you can't get back to the gain without returning to the menu. In gamut adjustment, after pressing OK to move the GUI to the bottom of the screen, the HIDE button no longer switches between before and after settings.

Great Jon !

I think that All your finds must be submarized in the 1st post or in a new topic, and the Thread Starter must keep updated those entries.
So, it can be a great reference instruments

Thanks very much

Hi Rob.. Great common sense well written impressions. Did you download the firmware upgrade on the JVC Pro site for the RS50??

A note on brightness... When I did our surveys of brightness for both projectors and screens 85 percent of the people that responded got it wrong. Its pretty difficult to judge brightness without an instrument because our eyes are adjusting for brightness automatically. To try and remember from a new lamp from an older projector from memory is not impossible but very difficult to do.

Enjoy your new toy.

So is it confirmed absolutely that the only thing the new firmware available does has to do with the Panasonic player? If so I won't go through all the stress. I did a firmware update on my Denon 3808 when I first got it, did it all correctly, and was unable to turn the machine back on, so I actually have a firmware phobia and prefer not to do it if it doesn't affect me at this point.

Rlindo: I agree, the HDMI handshake is not good, I have noticed a wait and I do see alot of flickering and even a few flashes of green on part of the screen, this happens as well when I put a new disc in my Oppo BDP-93 player. No problem with the Dish DVR channel changing, ect. Have not tried my PS3 or Denon 3930 DVD player yet.

I have everything going through my Denon 3808 receiver, except the HDMI 2 output on the Oppo 93 Player which runs right to the projector's HMDI 2 input for 3D, since the Denon is not HDMI 1.4.

I have that issue on mine as well but I thought it was a 3D thing last night on switch to watch Avatar on the Oppo. (F'ng brilliant BTW!!)


.

You probably have done this already, but did you upgrade your Oppo's Firmware to the new release that recently came out. Fixes a lot of handshaking issues.

Regards,
John

John, yes I did the Oppo upgrade but still get some of that, and yes it is mainly with the 3D functioning. Not during but when starting a disc and doing the handshake, acquiring the signal. Once the 3D begins, all I can say is WOW.

Anyone out there using an Oppo 93 with the RS50:

Can someone recommend how Deep Color should be set on the player, (36bit, 30bit, 30bit(dithered), off pr off(dithered)??

Thanks and Happy Holidays to all my RS50 bruvah's!!

Kevin

Kevin, I am wondering the same thing as to what that setting should be with this projector.

I've created a calibration thread over at AV Forums here http://www.avforums.com/forums/room-...on-thread.html and started to list the bugs Jon and myself have encountered with the CMS. Please let us know if there are anything that should be in the list.

One question for HTPC owners:

Has anyone managed to connect an HTPC to the X3/X7 through a Denon 3311?

I've setup my AMD 6870 to clone my desktop to the X7 (which I made the primary display). If I connect the HDMI out from the AMD to the X7, it works fine, but if it goes through the 3311 the screen is blank. I tried different inputs, I tried to swap cables, I tried to swap outputs, no dice. It looks like an EDID or something. If I switch the same input to my Dell monitor (on the second HDMI output), I do get the HTPC desktop. So it's specifically the combination AMD 6870, Denon 3311 and X7 (rs50) that seems to have a problem. I tried both Catalyst 10.10e and 10.12 preview. I can get my HDMI laptop (nVidia) through the 3311 without any issue.

Anyone has an idea?

But the way, this is 2D only, as I've not even tried 3D (no emitter yet!).

Sorry to answer my own question, but I just found the solution and I thought it may help others. I had to change the pixel format in the AMD driver from YCbCr 4:4:4 to YCBCr 4:2:2, which makes sense. All is fine now.
It looks like the X7/rs50 can handle this directly, but the Denon is unable to pass it through.

I lose deep color, but given the fact that there is no content with deep color yet (AFAIK), it's not a problem.

I tried to find an option on the 3311 to select 4:4:4 and couldn't find one.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Ok, more comments/observations after watching my first 2 full movies today:

-I updated the firmware yesterday and tried it out today. The HDMI issues appear to be flat out GONE. I know the description for it says it corrects Panasonic 3d player issues but I didn't have a single issue with the PS3/my 94TXH receiver. Nice to see that this appears to have been corrected with that firmware or somehow things today decided to do a 180 from Wednesday when I hooked it up and had all those problems. I'll see how things go tomorrow.

-I still have my RS2 so I decided to set it up with a used spare bulb I have that has 1400 hours on it as I wanted to see what the black level comparison was like given I said before I felt the black level at the -5 aperture setting was around the RS2 with a 1k bulb. Well, it turns out I was close but still off. I looked at both in their 'hide' mode and then with the green line pattern. With the aperture fully opened the black level looked to be about equal or ever so slightly better than the RS2's 1400 hour bulb and of course you have the added brightness to go with this. At -7 (the setting I am indeed using for movies) the black level was clearly better and the image still much brighter. At the -15 setting the black level looked to be twice as good and the image was still brighter. Obviously if this were a new RS2 bulb then the difference would be even greater so there is no question in my mind now that the RS50's black is quite superior to that of the RS2.

-I decided to go through some of the picture/colour modes and decided on using the Cinema setting. At first I was using the cinema 2 colour profile and watched my two movies that way. After I checked out standard and it seems standard matches up with the mode the THX profile is using. One thing with going to cinema is it has that filter click sound happening while in standard it didn't do that when switching to THX so that makes me think it matches up for the most part. I am going to leave it on standard until I can either try and calibrate this projector or someone else does and posts their CMS values even though I (again) know it wont be perfect for my pj but it could be very close so it'd be worth first trying out. I'm thinking the standard setting must be pretty close to accurate though given how things looked. I went with a profile other than THX because I want to have access to adjusting most of the settings, the main one being gamma which I changed to the 2.3 setting as I find it adds more depth than the value they are using for the THX mode.

-Regarding the colour fringing/breakup on edges of objects in motion (ie officials outfits in football), while checking out the scrolling lyrics in Rock Band 3 it is there but it is incredibly minor that to me at least, it was almost impossible to see outside of being a few feet from the screen. This is an artifact I used to see on the RS1/RS2 all the time with the same material from my seat so clearly I have no issues with how it is now....at least so far with what I have tested it with.

-Regarding motion of things like scrolling horizontal text, again I checked this in Rock Band 3 with lyrics as I figured they scroll fast so it'd be a good test...there is blur though it is MUCH improved over the RS2. Before I would have difficulty trying to read the lyrics as they scrolled by while on the RS50 they didn't pose any real issue to me. I tested out the CMD settings with the lyrics and there is bad colour breakup on mode 1&2 but the text was very clear/smooth moving by. On mode 3 & 4 the breakup wasn't an issue and while the text wasn't as clear as M1&2, it was visibly clearer than with the CMD off. For things like that game and maybe all other games I will play with CMD set to mode 3. Given that the lyrics scroll by pretty quick, I'd think stock/sports tickers would look less blurry since they don't scroll by as quickly. I went searching (briefly) for a program or channel that had one and couldn't find one at the time I was checking this out.

-The first movie I watched was Wall-E (since it is one of my favourite movies) and things looked great. Many times the aspect ratio bars were so dark that they came very close to being indistinguishable from the screen frame. Things looked great all around.

-The second movie I watched was The Treasure of the Sierra Madre and being a black & white movie, it of course showed off the one issue my RS50 has which is that uniformity/tinting issue on grey fields where around the centre of the screen certain shades of grey take on a slightly purple tint. I played around with the screen correction option and felt that "02" lessened this tint issue because it added a slightly greener look to the image which I didn't mind too much with the b&w image. Aside form the uniformity issue, the image looked fantastic with some incredible depth at times.

-Regarding the uniformity problem, I was in Get Grey after the movie finished and the area is bigger than I thought as it is most of the middle part of the screen which makes me think I may be able to really decrease its visibility by adjusting the greyscale/gamma for the selected IRE levels it mainly shows up in....I'll have to see how much of the screen this impacts and weigh if adjusting for it at the expense of the non shaded sections is the lesser of two evils. The reason it may not be more on the sides is because of the other issue which is that bluish border I mentioned on the sides. Turns out it is actually around the entire image and it is the worst on the left side (right side if table mounted) and the bottom (top if table mounted) to the point it cheeses me off. It is somewhat of a very light turquoise colour on a white background and it was very obvious in the b&w movie. I'm wondering if this is something JVC would even look into/fix under warranty or if they'd just say it is within spec. I guess I will ask Chris (think that is his name, right?) here and see. Figures I would get an otherwise solid performing RS50 and have this issue. I believe my RS1 had a similar issue with the shading though it didn't have the outer edge problem. I don't recall having any shading issues on the RS2.

That's basically all I have to report here today. If by chance anyone has any questions regarding things I have posted (or wants me to check into something) then please send me a PM as I'm not a big 'thread' guy meaning I don't want to have to try and follow a thread on a regular basis and see if anyone is asking me a question. The RS40 owner's thread is a perfect example of this as I would check it out and then a day later there'd be like 3 more pages of posts added.

I don't like the sound of those uniformity problems.

Just to confirm, have you gone into the test patterns in the service menu and display the 100 IRE white and 50 IRE grey screens? Do you see it at the same level at both levels?

If you could take a picture and share it with us on the forums we could offer better views on whether its acceptable or not.

Some differences in brightness (usually brighter in the middle) or colour across the screen are inevitable but the way you describe it, it sounds excessive.

A few weeks ago someone posted a full field 100% pattern of their unit (I think it was a preproduction but can't recall) for some other reason. I noticed that uniformity looked to be an issue but it was dismissed. Its easy to spot IMO when present. If Rob posts the photo we will know what his situation is.

I don't think many units have this issue but it seems that some may. This is why the importance of choosing a dealer is very important should one need them to go to bat for you or take a unit back.

Great post, Rob. Thanks!

I might be posting in the wrong thread...

I am considering opening a small theater for 30-50 people with focus on 3D films. I am currently looking at the JVC RS-50 + emitter + 30-50 glasses.

My questions are:
1. Does the emitter support 30-50 glasses?
2. How big should be my screen for 30-50 people?
3. And overall, how good is JVC RS-50 for the proposed setup?

Thanks beforehand and happy holidays!

Chris here is another issue post firmware ver 1.1 update with DirecTV's DVR's for supported 3D modes:

HDMI EDID Issue 3D modes not detected

HR24-500 0x452
JVC DLA-RS50 (firmware ver 1.1)
3D mode reported by HR24:1080i only

I also tried connecting through a 3D ready receiver, Pioneer Elite SC-37, no luck, same 1 mode supported.

3D modes supported by this projector which I expect to see that DirecTV supports: 720p, 1080p/24

This level of projector can't light up a big enough screen for a comfortable 50 person venue.

How many people / how big screen can this projector handle?

With a unity gain screen, about 90" wide max in 3D mode. How many people depends on the size of the room and how far away you're willing to have everyone sit.

You're looking at an entirely different animal if you want 3D in a theater with 30-50 people - the only thing that will fit the bill is a projector running $50K+.

Maybe five rows of six people = 30. The LG 3D projector might work since reports are that it's in a completely different category regarding brightness, but it is a passive system requiring a "silver" screen and polarize glasses. The LG, I believe, uses a dual lamp system and costs about $15,000. Ceiling mounted it and elevate each row slightly as you go back thus making it easier to see. At least the glasses will be cheap and the projector comes with 5 or 6, I believe.

Ok, I did my math and my setup is following:

1. Screen size is 160" (4 m) diagonally. With 1300 lm brightness + 1.2 gain screen it gives me 21 fL
2. 5 rows of 6 chairs = 30 persons (glasses); 15.7 ft row width
3. First row is 8.2 ft and last row is 25 ft away from screen

What do you say to this? Is this feasible? Isn't screen too small for viewing 25 ft away?

$50k is a bit too expensive for starting. And I picked active shutter glass + FullHD because polarizing 3D I saw in other cinemas was too dark, was ghosting a lot and too grainy.

Wolf Cinema recommends their 5500 lumen DCX-1000i for screen widths of 11-15'. Their 7250 lumen DCX-1500i has sufficient light output for a 15-20' screen. These recommendations are for 2D so you'd need a projector with more than twice the lumen output for a comparably bright 3D image. Pro grade projectors use lamps which are brighter, last longer, and don't dim as quickly as consumer grade UHP lamps.

From 25 feet a 160" diag screen would provide a 26 degree angle of view. That would be comparable to watching a 64" screen from 10'. That's too small for a cinematic experience IMO.