Originally Posted by mojomike
Do you feel that the newer high-end Paradigms do no better job with deep bass than the DD18? That would be dissappointing. To hear those guys on the Paradigm threads, those subs in the Signature series can do it all well. Loud, deep, and accurate.
True, but then, to listen to the guys in any thread on this forum (ULS, VTF-15, LFM, Empire, CS18.X, Lava, etc) every sub can do it loud, deep, accurate. I know, that's somewhat exaggerating, but you know what I mean. Look at the ULS vs VTF thread. For the longest time ULS owners said how their sub plummeted to the depths of the earth and sounded great with incredible punch for music, now the VTF comes out, and somehow a ported sub is besting a sealed sub in the lows (naturally) AND the mid/upper bass regions (unusual), simply because HSU had to make decisions around the ULS and wanted something that would hit deep because that's what the AVS crowd was more concerned with at the time and boosted it so low to try and get to that magical 100db-ish at 20hz level (for a "small" sealed sub) that the amp can't keep up up high. With the ULS and VTF-15, HSU is showing it is listening to the AVS crowd and giving them the flavour of the day at some incredible prices. The Empire seems to utilize a 4th order roll off in the upper 20's vs a 2nd order roll off, likely because they know the majority of people will have enough room gain to offset this and 90% of bass is above 30hz, and people with 4000 cubic foot rooms (and barely any room gain) say the Empire goes lower than any sub they've ever had/heard. Again, very, very smartly designed sub. If they had delivered to Canada I would have likely gone that route vs DIY for my smalllish 1700 cubed family room HT.
As for the Paradigm, that's not to say the Sub25 can't hit deep. Given the price range, I'd guess the driver is close to the LMS in terms of motor strength/ability and with that kind of amp power it can be boosted quite a bit down low and still have plenty of power for the mid bass region.
I'm guessing the Velo DD18 is going to have a box size advantage over the Sub25 (I'm too lazy to look
) and obviously a driver size advantage so won't need the power the Sub25 does to hit as deep. The better comparison will be to the DD15 IMO as the price range and box sizes should be closer. But you know all this, probably better than I do.
One of the PR's that came out when the new Velo's were announced claimed "The DD+ Series utilizes newly engineered drivers with twice the extension of their predecessors. Using Velodyne's patented digital high-gain servo technology and a Class D, patented Energy Recovery System (ERS) amplifier, delivering over 3000 watts of dynamic power, the DD+ produces the industry's lowest distortion bass, under ½%, with a 4.5 to 6 dB upgrade in output from the previous Digital Drive Series."
So 4.5 to 6db's seems to imply a considerable increase in efficiency, at what frequencies, who knows, and not sure what "twice" the extension means, but it at least means it will go a bit lower than the predecessor which we have measurements for.
I'm sure Secrets will do a review of the DD-18 or 15 and JEJ will post his usual measurement suite on it, FWIW one can try to compare it to the Sub25. In any event, I'm sure it will be an impressive product, and find a happy place in many a rich man's home, a few of whom will come on here and extol the virtues of how the subwoofer plummets to the Earth's core, shakes their neighbourhood, make their friends green with envy, and can eat alive any other subwoofer in this universe.