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Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 59

post #1741 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

The exact average of the 4 calibrated X3 was:

870 Lumen in 2D / D65


3D values are always way lower on the JVC: 450 Lumens in 3D on the screen and about 170 Lumens behind the glasses in your eyes.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart - thanks for this information. Did you notice any black crush in the default settings of Cinema or Film mode while you were calibrating the projector?

I tried 2 different BD sources and believe I am experiencing black crush with the default settings.
post #1742 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

This is an RS40 owners thread, not a High Power thread. Enough with the off topic posts, let's not clog this thread up like the other JVC thread did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

It probably would make a lot of sense to create a new thread, either under the projection screens forum or even better under the 3D forum for "projection screens for 3D". That way we can talk about gain and polarization as it relates to 3D projection in general (i.e., not specific to one projector). Perhaps I'll go ahead and start a new 3D screens thread under "3D Displays".

I will respectfully disagree guys and vote to keep the screen discussion in this owners's thread as it related directly to the image produced by the RS40. So does the HTPC discussion because again it related to capabilities on the RS40. Same goes for gaming lag...all of these things are being discussed in relation to the RS40.

I can see how an RS50 calibration topic is not suitable here, or chatting about football or racing cars....but i think its very important to determine the best configuration and screen fabric for the RS40, even if that means a guy like me with a 1.1 gain screen wil have to live vicariously through the visions of HP screen owners.

Just a thought...nothing more.
post #1743 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Sam - glad to hear you guys had a nice time. I'm sure it was a great demo!

Did you talk with Chris about the problem with no 3D side by side with 1080p/24 material? Is he going to report it and look into it? This is a big deal as much of Comcast's On Demand 3D material is in 1080p/24 side by side. Plus this is a big deal with DirecTv and other STBs as well.

The 1080p/24 message no longer appears during 3D playback from DirecTV throughout the RS40. That happened only when i played back 3D content that was recorded to the DVR before the RS40 and AVR4311 were in the 3D loop so to speak.

The only DirecTV 3D i am unable to play is ESPN 3D and i am getting the 720p/3D not playable or supported error within DirecTV. Chris (JVC) snapped a photo of the error while it was on the screen and he said tha whe will report the issue to the office (whether it's Denver, NJ, Cyprus CA, or Japan i am not sure.) but he will report it.
post #1744 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

It probably would make a lot of sense to create a new thread, either under the projection screens forum or even better under the 3D forum for "projection screens for 3D". That way we can talk about gain and polarization as it relates to 3D projection in general (i.e., not specific to one projector). Perhaps I'll go ahead and start a new 3D screens thread under "3D Displays".

That's a good idea, Ron. I still think screen talk is appropriate for any projector thread, though. No projector can be used without a screen. And the addition of 3D makes screen talk even more relevant. (The problem with HP discussions is that they can devolve rapidly into accusation/retort mode.) Maybe this is a good topic for one of Sam's reserved posts - but only for factual information (when we have actual measurements) about gain and other performance characteristics.
post #1745 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

am did you guys test the xpand glasses vs the jvc glasses anymore? So do you perfer the xpands over the jvc?

I did test those 2 weeks ago when i first got the RS40. I personally preferred the expands because they are 30% cheaper and are universal. They are virtually identical with the JVC exhibiting a very VERY slight brightness over the X103, negligible at best IMHO.
post #1746 of 9663
Thread Starter 
I will echo both what Todd and Chris said below. The brightness in 3D looks great on my fairly large 1.1 gain AT screen, with the aperture set to between -7 and -5 at most times using the 3D preset of course and in a 100% lighting controlled bat cave.

Chris/Todd, It was really a pleasure demoing the theater and giving you the full construction story (in crash course form) and seeing the reaction to the 3D picture, especially those scenes i paused for you in Open Season, this movie is seriously 3D candy for the eyes! It is unbelievable that this technology is available to us in such an extra large form factor and so soon after the release of the first gen 3D flat panels.

Thanks to both of you for visiting cedar peaks cinema, it was a pleasure having you over and maybe next time we can actually watch a full length 3D movie rather than bits an pieces of everything.

Chris, thanks again for the cool JVC goodies bag! That was very nice of you.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

First off, I would just like to say what a thrill it was to see Sams HT in person.........as good as it looks in the pictures, it is even more impressive in the flesh. I loved hearing him explain the ins and outs of the construction process. Having said that, what was even more impressive than that was the hospitality that was shown to me and Chris (who is one hell of a nice guy as well) by Sam and his family and Sams excitement is contagious as I could not stop thinking about everything we witnessed on the ~30 minute ride home.

I was blown away at what he showed us.............Avatar was better than when I saw it at the IMAX............Open Season I am going to run out and buy tom (we paused a scene in this one and you could just see layers of picture like you could almost fall into it...........amazing!), IMAX Under the Sea and the now infamous Potato Cod fish scene was shocking (another one I am going to get after seeing it tonight) as this was the first time I had seen this. Avatar I have a copy coming my way and I cant wait to watch it (they arrived today Sam I just found out!). The presentation was fantastic (brightness, settings, etc........) and I am going to order a pair of 103s from AVS after using his tonight as well as they looked just as good as my JVCs (considering neither of the screens I will use preserve polarization, the 103s seem the way to go for me). Sam, Chris and me just sat there in amazement scene after scene..............VERY cool!

To top it all off, Chris brought us a bag of JVC goodies and Sam sent me off with a few 3d blu rays to borrow for a few days...............what a great night and what a cool experience to meet 2 new friends I could go on, but needless to say it was a very impressive evening all around. Thanks again Sam and Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdeutsch View Post

What a cool evening! Rarely has 3 hours gone by so fast. Thanks to Sam and his wife for hosting. It's rare to meet someone who has such a cool vision of home theater, and then on top of that has the ability to turn that vision into reality... And, then invites you to come over and share in that reality...

If you check out the links to the pictures of Sam's theater, you will undoubtedly say wow as well. Then, keep in mind that he built virtually everything in that theater himself.

Normally I see our projectors in a show environment, or at a retailer, or in a situation where there are time restrictions. It was great to have 3 hours of "quality time" with the RS40. I agree with everything Todd said on the picture and the viewing experience. I was a little curious how an AT screen would work with 3D, and there were no issues at all. What kept resonating with me, particularly during Avatar, is how much better it looked than what I remember in the theater. Not only the detail, color and black level, but the 3D. It was more natural, more effortless, more flat-out real. In the theater I found the 3D to be fatiguing. At Sam's place, it was not at all.

The Potato Cod Fish was so real you could reach out and touch it, I loved the way the Space Station disc used your glasses as the actual 3D boundary. You actual see things come out so far that they bounce off your glasses, and during liftoff, it was like your glasses cracked from the debris. The scene from the convenience store in Open Season was also remarkable. None of the cut-out 3D effect, but rather images with amazing depth and detail. We paused it a couple of times and stood up and pretty much walked around some of the objects, noticing how the perspective changed as we moved. It was that real. If you're waiting for 3D to get better, all I can say is you're missing out on a lot right now.

Again thanks to Sam for the invite. It was great to meet both you and Todd.

I've always been proud of the products that JVC makes. Tonight I'm just a little prouder.

Chris
post #1747 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I will echo both what Todd and Chris said below. The brightness in 3D looks great on my fairly large 1.1 gain AT screen, with the aperture set to between -7 and -5 at most times using the 3D preset of course and in a 100% lighting controlled bat cave.

Chris/Todd, It was really a pleasure demoing the theater and giving you the full construction story (in crash course form) and seeing the reaction to the 3D picture, especially those scenes i paused for you in Open Season, this movie is seriously 3D candy for the eyes! It is unbelievable that this technology is available to us in such an extra large form factor and so soon after the release of the first gen 3D flat panels.

Thanks to both of you for visiting cedar peaks cinema, it was a pleasure having you over and maybe next time we can actually watch a full length 3D movie rather than bits an pieces of everything.

Chris, thanks again for the cool JVC goodies bag! That was very nice of you.

Are you using the JVC glasses or the XPAND? Just curious.

Thanks,
post #1748 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Todd,
Let me know when you get through watching your copy of Avatar3D on your Oppo93, i wanna know if you had any issues with the playback freezing up like my copy. Thanks
post #1749 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Are you using the JVC glasses or the XPAND? Just curious.

Thanks,

Xpand x103, i did mention this quite a few times before, even on this page, just saying Dave
post #1750 of 9663
Thread Starter 
I apologize for anyone who had asked me a question over the past few days or so, please repost any questions i may have missed. Its been crazy busy for me and there is no way i can go back and check the dozen pages i have missed. Thanks
post #1751 of 9663
Sam,

You wouldn't happen to have an extra emitter would you? Thought I read so previously, thx
post #1752 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Xpand x103, i did mention this quite a few times before, even on this page, just saying Dave

Sorry, I didn't notice. My wife was yacking to me in the background and my brain probably didn't register it

Did you ever get a chance to compare the Xpand x103's versus the JVC glasses? Also, I assume you are using the JVC emitter, correct?
post #1753 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidwiz View Post

Sam,

You wouldn't happen to have an extra emitter would you? Thought I read so previously, thx

Nope. I shipped it off to Zombie10K (jason) who also ended up with an extra emitter too, so why dont you PM him to see if he still has it.
post #1754 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Dave, see below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Sorry, I didn't notice. My wife was yacking to me in the background and my brain probably didn't register it

Did you ever get a chance to compare the Xpand x103's versus the JVC glasses? Also, I assume you are using the JVC emitter, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I did test those 2 weeks ago when i first got the RS40. I personally preferred the expands because they are 30% cheaper and are universal. They are virtually identical with the JVC exhibiting a very VERY slight brightness over the X103, negligible at best IMHO.
post #1755 of 9663
Sam I also have the oppo93. Should I turn 1080P/24 off ? Also I have not got the glasses yet and think im going t go the xpand route now. Can someone please look at the chart and tell me if the da-lite cinima vision 1.3 gain screen will work with the xpand glasses? Im ready to put an order in and need this answered and I dont understand the chart. I appreciatethe help guys.
post #1756 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Dave, see below

Thanks. By the way, I want to compliment you on the service you are doing for fellow AVS members in your frequent posts regarding the projector. I can't wait to join in the fun when mine finally arrives (fingers crossed that it shows up before the end of the year!).

Best,
post #1757 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Sam I also have the oppo93. Should I turn 1080P/24 off ? Also I have not got the glasses yet and think im going t go the xpand route now. Can someone please look at the chart and tell me if the da-lite cinima vision 1.3 gain screen will work with the xpand glasses? Im ready to put an order in and need this answered and I dont understand the chart. I appreciatethe help guys.

Absolutely NOT! 1080P/24 is the BEST way to watch films via bluray. Do not change anything on your Oppo93 settings, play everything as is. You may have to go and fix your screen size within the video menu to match your screen's diagonal size at 16:9. but thats about it.

I don't know about your screen but I would be surprised if it retains any noticeable polarization, most screens out there seem to not have this advantage. But I could be wrong on your screen.

But in the case your screen fabric, like most others, does not retain or polarize light, then the Xpand x103s will work just fine for you, you can buy 3 of them of the price of two JVCs, just trying to save you a buck or two here...
post #1758 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Absolutely NOT! 1080P/24 is the BEST way to watch films via bluray. Do not change anything on your Oppo93 settings, play everything as is. You may have to go and fix your screen size within the video menu to match your screen's diagonal size at 16:9. but thats about it.

I don't know about your screen but I would be surprised if it retains any noticeable polarization, most screens out there seem to not have this advantage. But I could be wrong on your screen.

But in the case your screen fabric, like most others, does not retain or polarize light, then the Xpand x103s will work just fine for you, you can buy 3 of them of the price of two JVCs, just trying to save you a buck or two here...

Thanks for the quick reply Sam. One more question before I head out to Best Buy. The Open Season movie that you guys are referring to is that Open season 1 or open season 3?
post #1759 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Thanks for the quick reply Sam. One more question before I head out to Best Buy. The Open Season movie that you guys are referring to is that Open season 1 or open season 3?

It's the first one, which is the only one available in 3D. It's awesome! You will love the convenience store rummaging scene, full of 3D awesomeness!
post #1760 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Thanks. By the way, I want to compliment you on the service you are doing for fellow AVS members in your frequent posts regarding the projector. I can't wait to join in the fun when mine finally arrives (fingers crossed that it shows up before the end of the year!).

Best,

You are welcome, I am an amateur viewer at best, not into measuring lumens, or perfect convergence or excessive calibration, but i try my best to share the most generic J6P experience with mostly default settings, just to prove that the RS40, at least mine, looked great right out of the box.
post #1761 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I will respectfully disagree guys and vote to keep the screen discussion in this owners's thread as it related directly to the image produced by the RS40. So does the HTPC discussion because again it related to capabilities on the RS40. Same goes for gaming lag...all of these things are being discussed in relation to the RS40.

,,,,,,,,,,,Just a thought...nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

That's a good idea, Ron. I still think screen talk is appropriate for any projector thread, though. No projector can be used without a screen. And the addition of 3D makes screen talk even more relevant. (The problem with HP discussions is that they can devolve rapidly into accusation/retort mode.) Maybe this is a good topic for one of Sam's reserved posts - but only for factual information (when we have actual measurements) about gain and other performance characteristics.

I've gone ahead and created a screen discussion thread on the 3D Displays forum. My idea is to expand Post #1 (now just a placeholder) over the next several days, or perhaps couple of weeks, to provide what will essentially be a FAQ for projection screens that will be used for 3D (in addition to 2D). I will attempt to pull info that several us have previously posted on the RS40, RS50 and overall JVC 3D projector threads as well as anything else that I find on the threads related to the Sony and LG 3D projectors. Also I'll take a look at the threads related to the low-end 720p DLP 3D projectors to see what screen discussions have been posted there.
post #1762 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I will respectfully disagree guys and vote to keep the screen discussion in this owners's thread as it related directly to the image produced by the RS40. So does the HTPC discussion because again it related to capabilities on the RS40. Same goes for gaming lag...all of these things are being discussed in relation to the RS40.

I can see how an RS50 calibration topic is not suitable here, or chatting about football or racing cars....but i think its very important to determine the best configuration and screen fabric for the RS40, even if that means a guy like me with a 1.1 gain screen wil have to live vicariously through the visions of HP screen owners.

Just a thought...nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

Mark,

I was wondering, what's a fan boy? Also, you mention problems with high mounted projectors and color shifts for the HP.

1. I have one and my projector by necessity is mounted high. If I understand previous statements there is about 20% brightness lost because of this. Based on my personal experience when standing up to watch versus sitting down the 20% loss is about right. My calculation says 2.8 x .8 = 2.24 gain. That's still about twice the brightness(and pop?) of most of the purist screens discussed here.

2. I'm not sure what color shift means but wouldn't that be taken care of in an ISF calibration. Mine was calibrated by an ISF pro and the colors look great.

I haven't noticed any sharpness deficiency but definitely see brightness dropoff outside the slim viewing cone. My wife sits there though and she doesn't seem to care.

The questions asked about the high power had nothing to do with the RS40 or even being used with it, they were specific to the high power only. Why don't we talk about our local power grid, the type of windows we are using, the thread count on our curtains, and the million other things that can affect a projectors performance too?? There's a reason there are separate threads/forums. There is no best screen fabric for a projector, only environment and user preference. Ekkerhart's info is very useful and I'd hate to see it get watered down or even missed and like Mark said, have this turn into a fan boy thread which happens all the time in many other threads.
post #1763 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

This is an RS40 owners thread, not a High Power thread. Enough with the off topic posts, let's not clog this thread up like the other JVC thread did.

Sorry Mike but I have to disagree with your opinion also. Throughout this thread the brightness of the RS40 has been such a big issue that merging in discussions about screen type is appropriate; especially when one screen has such a high gain as to be a possible solution to either ambient light environments or 3D usage where the brightness is so substantially impacted.

So I still want to know, what's a fan boy?
post #1764 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

The questions asked about the high power had nothing to do with the RS40 or even being used with it, they were specific to the high power only. Why don't we talk about our local power grid, the type of windows we are using, the thread count on our curtains, and the million other things that can affect a projectors performance too?? There's a reason there are separate threads/forums. There is no best screen fabric for a projector, only environment and user preference. Ekkerhart's info is very useful and I'd hate to see it get watered down or even missed and like Mark said, have this turn into a fan boy thread which happens all the time in many other threads.

I understand where you are coming from, but light conditions and the type of fabric DIRECTLY affect the picture of the RS40, some higher lumens business projectors can still throw a bright image even with all the windows open and the sun light shining in. You always have to put in mind that there are quiet a few newbs on each owner's thread. It looks like a third of the posts never even owned a projector before, so I personally feel that we SHOULD talk about screen types, and batcave recommendations. But at the same time we shouldn't impose them on others who are not interested by saying that HP is the only way the RS40 should be experiences or that the throw distance should be no more than 10 ft and seating should not be further than 7 ft. But I think we should still talk about screens without the so-called "fanboyism" and the whole "my HP is better than your low gain" crap, that I totally agree on.
post #1765 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

So I still want to know, what's a fan boy?

Someone who is obsessively loyal to and supportive of a certain manufacaturer, brand or technology (i.e. Apple fanboys, Sony Fanboys, HDDVD fan boys, and now introducing 3D fanboys )
post #1766 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

The exact average of the 4 calibrated X3 was:

870 Lumen in 2D / D65


3D values are always way lower on the JVC: 450 Lumens in 3D on the screen and about 170 Lumens behind the glasses in your eyes.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Awesome....a good solid straight answer.

Thanks!!!!!!!!
post #1767 of 9663
Thread Starter 
Thanks Ekki, this is highly encouraging again and will hopefully remove any doubts with the number of uncalibrated lumens. So it looks like JVC wasn't overinflating the initial lumen measurements. And even though I could not measure lumens I could easily tell there was a significant boost in the brightness right out of the box versus my old RS20.Good to know that there are scientific numbers to back it up. Thanks for all of your work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

Hello together:

I calibrated 4 different X3 (RS40) today and its time to confuse you all again a little further

ALL X3 met the 1300 Lumen spec, one even exceeded it with 1400 Lumens.

Calibratetd they keep about 900 Lumens...

There is quite some deviation in Color Space "standard" between the machines, have to figure out why...

Only the X9 was darker. Maybe because of its double-iris-system.


Anyway, good news after all regarding (calibrated) brightness of X3...

Regards,
Ekkehart
post #1768 of 9663
My Oppo 93 displays a blue screen with sound only. PS3 plays perfectly but my Samsung glasses do not work. I thought all of the 3D glasses were compatable. I wasn't crazy about the Expands or JVCs due to battery replacement. The Samsung's I have are rechargable.
post #1769 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

Sorry Mike but I have to disagree with your opinion also. Throughout this thread the brightness of the RS40 has been such a big issue that merging in discussions about screen type is appropriate; especially when one screen has such a high gain as to be a possible solution to either ambient light environments or 3D usage where the brightness is so substantially impacted.

So I still want to know, what's a fan boy?

Of course you disagree, you're the one that made the post! Not one of your questions was specific to using the screen with the RS40 or even 3D! It could've easily been answered in the high power thread, with a lot more responses and much quicker to boot!
post #1770 of 9663
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Thanks Ekki, this is highly encouraging again and will hopefully remove any doubts with the number of uncalibrated lumens. So it looks like JVC wasn't overinflating the initial lumen measurements. And even though I could not measure lumens I could easily tell there was a significant boost in the brightness right out of the box versus my old RS20.Good to know that there are scientific numbers to back it up. Thanks for all of your work.

This ~ 900 lumens (with new lamp, shortest throw, iris at 0, high lamp mode) at D65 is precisely the same as the RS20/25/35. I don't see how the RS40/50 are going to be in brighter for 2d at D65. ?
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