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Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 117

post #3481 of 9680
1/19/11 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

For anyone using the RS40 for 3D, I am looking for a new HDMI cable. My installed one is a standard speed, so I am assuming I need to upgrade. I am not trying to get into an "HDMI quality debate", but I also don't want to get a cable in and it not work. Can some of you tell me what length cable and brand you are using that works?

I think I need about 50 foot. I could get by with a 40 footer, but it would be close.

Before you go bin the old one, try it first. It may very well work.

My old 8m HDMI cable was an unbranded one (got it in the days of HDMI 1.1 with my Yamaha RXV-27000) but surprisingly worked in 3D.

I also have a slightly newer 12m HDMI (predated HDMI1.4) cable that worked just as well as well as a NuForce 10m one (but it's a bit too short).

I am going to try a 15m NuForce one next (that one is supposed to have some active "booster" for the longer run).

I think the NuForce ones were also released prior to HDMI 1.4.

I think they won't support Audio Return Channel, and they won't support Ethernet, but if you only need 3D, don't waste yr money first.

I did get a loaner cable (which was tested to work in 3D) first from where I got my RS40, just in case the old ones didn't work cos I wouldn't want to be stuck high and dry with RS40/emitter/glasses but non working HDMI cable but as it turned out, the old cables worked just fine!
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post #3482 of 9680
1/19/11 at 8:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmith808 View Post

How has 3d gaming been on the rs40? I have read very positive reports about 3d movie watching, but not much on the gaming side. Anyone spend a lot of time gaming on the rs40? Seems like ghosting is more of an issue for gaming from what little I've read.

The problem with 3D gaming is the actual lack of good quality content. I must say that 3D games such as COD or GT5 look slightly better and sharper on my 55" Sony 3D LED TV, versus a 120" screen with the RS40, but that has to do with the fact that those 3D games are in 720P and any content with 720P res will ALWAYS look better on a 55" screen versus 100" or more.

I think until we can get true 1080P 3D games, preferably frame packed format, 3D gaming will come no where near the quality of their 2D experience. But even then, I still think playing COD 3D on the big screen has a WOW factor, and its quite enjoyable, but I wouldn't try to play online with all the Pros out there in 3D, you will get picked in seconds, and will end up with a 1:2 kill ratio since the IQ in 3D is not so sharp.

Gran Turismo 5, on the other hand, with some 3D setting changes within the game, can actually look quite good in 3D, up until you compare it side by side with the gorgeous 2D graphics.

So the bottom line, 3D gaming is good on the RS40, but not nearly as good as the 2D experience. Which is unfortunate because we've been able to enjoy nearly the same 2D crispness, sharpness and color fidelity in 3D movies. so here is hoping that 3D gaming can continue to get better and match the 2D experience with image quality.
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post #3483 of 9680
1/19/11 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Before you go bin the old one, try it first. It may very well work.

My old 8m HDMI cable was an unbranded one (got it in the days of HDMI 1.1 with my Yamaha RXV-27000) but surprisingly worked in 3D.

I also have a slightly newer 12m HDMI (predated HDMI1.4) cable that worked just as well as well as a NuForce 10m one (but it's a bit too short).

I am going to try a 15m NuForce one next (that one is supposed to have some active "booster" for the longer run).

I think the NuForce ones were also released prior to HDMI 1.4.

I think they won't support Audio Return Channel, and they won't support Ethernet, but if you only need 3D, don't waste yr money first.

I did get a loaner cable (which was tested to work in 3D) first from where I got my RS40, just in case the old ones didn't work cos I wouldn't want to be stuck high and dry with RS40/emitter/glasses but non working HDMI cable but as it turned out, the old cables worked just fine!

In many cases, the same HDMI cables that sold more than 2 years ago, are now tagged as High Speed HDMI. I had an old invoice from MonoPrice where I had purchased the bulk of my AV cables and wall plates at the time of my theater construction back in the late summer / Fall 2008, and I had purchased one 25ft HDMI cable for the projector run (at the time I pre-ordered an RS20). So when I found the old invoice, I plugged in the same Item number on MonoPrice's website and to my surprise they are now labeling the same exact cable as High Speed (3D ready w/ ARC , aka Audio Return Channel). Sure enough when I got my RS40, the 3D video and HD audio worked right away, so needless to say I did not have to spend $30-$50 on another 25ft high speed HDMI cable, and more importantly I did not have to fish the old cable out, even though I ran it through a 2" resigard tube, it would still be kind of a pain to replace.

So my advice is try it first, and since more than likely you're only passing video from the AV receiver's Monitor Output, I would think even slightly older HDMI cables would still work.
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post #3484 of 9680
1/19/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I posted two new calibration settings shared by KrisDeering and RonJones in the first page. Thanks for everyone's contribution.

And if anyone lives in the Denver Metro area and would like to help me calibrate my RS40, please do PM me. I can use all the help I can get with calibration because I wouldn't know where to start, very novice in this aspect, but I have seen what a post calibrated image looks like from some of the screenshots posted, and I am totally jealous

sam, I did a basic greyscale calibration on the RS50 last night. The before / after is remarkable. I thought something look off with the default 6500k settings.

It took about an hour or so of playing around and re-testing to get it right. This is the best $$ I've spent yet with any of my HT gear.

you can see by the wide variety of settings that have been posted, that each projector is different, sometimes by a wide margin. I kept going back and forth between the default 6500k settings and the custom color setting corrected for the greyscale measurements - very noticeable difference. Flesh tones are much more natural now, Sky / grass is the correct color, etc.

big thanks to Kal from curtpalme.com for making this so easy to digest and understand. I can tell now this is going to be addicting.
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post #3485 of 9680
1/19/11 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Thanks for the reply Joseph,

Looking at the Monoprice site (where I have purchased most of my HDMI cables) it doesn't even offer a "High speed cable" over 25 foot in length.

How long is your HDMI cable?

Yes, I would test it before I run it through the ceiling. I do appreciate the advice.

Blue Jeans' longest certified hi-speed is 25ft too. It's a very heavy thick 23.5 AWG cable they call the "BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable". Although it's certified high-speed up to 25 ft., that doesn't mean it won't work at 40. As they state..."results will vary depending on the capabilities of the sending and receiving circuits of the devices in use".
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post #3486 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sam, I did a basic greyscale calibration on the RS50 last night. The before / after is remarkable. I thought something look off with the default 6500k settings.

It took about an hour or so of playing around and re-testing to get it right. This is the best $$ I've spent yet with any of my HT gear.

you can see by the wide variety of settings that have been posted, that each projector is different, sometimes by a wide margin. I kept going back and forth between the default 6500k settings and the custom color setting corrected for the greyscale measurements - very noticeable difference. Flesh tones are much more natural now, Sky / grass is the correct color, etc.

big thanks to Kal from curtpalme.com for making this so easy to digest and understand. I can tell now this is going to be addicting.

I will definitelty take your word on that, I know you're very critical of the IQ of displays. Maybe TOE and I can go into a "joint-calibration-venture" and work together to get the best out of our RS40s.
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post #3487 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sam, I did a basic greyscale calibration on the RS50 last night. The before / after is remarkable. I thought something look off with the default 6500k settings.

It took about an hour or so of playing around and re-testing to get it right. This is the best $$ I've spent yet with any of my HT gear.

you can see by the wide variety of settings that have been posted, that each projector is different, sometimes by a wide margin. I kept going back and forth between the default 6500k settings and the custom color setting corrected for the greyscale measurements - very noticeable difference. Flesh tones are much more natural now, Sky / grass is the correct color, etc.

big thanks to Kal from curtpalme.com for making this so easy to digest and understand. I can tell now this is going to be addicting.

Jason, would you mind snapping a few before/after pics? I am curious to see the difference. I know screenshots dont tell the whole story and yadda, yadda, but I am sure we could still get a good idea of what we can expect.
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post #3488 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I will definitelty take your word on that, I know you're very critical of the IQ of displays. Maybe TOE and I can go into a "joint-calibration-venture" and work together to get the best out of our RS40s.

Might be fun if we learned and did this together Do you have a laptop? I dont.
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post #3489 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I will definitelty take your word on that, I know you're very critical of the IQ of displays. Maybe TOE and I can go into a "joint-calibration-venture" and work together to get the best out of our RS40s.

great idea, $75 investment from each person and you guys can share the meter. It's relatively straight forward to use the meter and software. The low cost meter isn't perfect, but it's better than our eyes, no doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Jason, would you mind snapping a few before/after pics? I am curious to see the difference. I know screenshots dont tell the whole story and yadda, yadda, but I am sure we could still get a good idea of what we can expect.

no problem. The Nikon D90 should be able to capture at least the difference in color. My reds were low and had a green push as well.
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post #3490 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

In many cases, the same HDMI cables that sold more than 2 years ago, are now tagged as High Speed HDMI.

Similar question with HDMI switches. I've got a FIOS cable box and a PS3 Blu-ray player that will both need to be connected to the RS40. I was thinking of using a switch so I only need to run one long cable to the location of the RS40. Can I get a HDMI 1.3 switch, or are there capabilities that I would be losing by not having a switch that specifically says it supports HDMI 1.4?

I don't see a 1.4 switch on Monoprice, just up to 1.3b


Thanks.
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post #3491 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Might be fun if we learned and did this together Do you have a laptop? I dont.

You guys in Denver? I have an eye-on and laptop. I am 3 hours away but I have nobody in Scottsbluff to share my passion of HT with. Accept of course Miss America since she is from here.
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post #3492 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Might be fun if we learned and did this together Do you have a laptop? I dont.

Yep, I have a laptop in additon to the DVE Bluray Calibration Disc recommended. We can also use the free AVS Rec709 disc, but I would think the updated DVE disc for Bluray may be better, plus I already have it. It would be great if we can figure this out together because I honestly would have zero motivation otherwise
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post #3493 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sam, I did a basic greyscale calibration on the RS50 last night. The before / after is remarkable. I thought something look off with the default 6500k settings.

It took about an hour or so of playing around and re-testing to get it right. This is the best $$ I've spent yet with any of my HT gear.

you can see by the wide variety of settings that have been posted, that each projector is different, sometimes by a wide margin. I kept going back and forth between the default 6500k settings and the custom color setting corrected for the greyscale measurements - very noticeable difference. Flesh tones are much more natural now, Sky / grass is the correct color, etc.

big thanks to Kal from curtpalme.com for making this so easy to digest and understand. I can tell now this is going to be addicting.

It's time for me to take the plunge into calibration.

I know that all projectors and viewing environments are different, but I've noticed a big improvement in color accuracy with DennisBP's settings from page 1. The other settings, along with the default presets, don't yield results as good as DennisBP's with my RS40. I noticed extremely subtle differences in the skin tones of a local sportscaster yesterday. He had a tiny, tiny pimple whose slight redness was clearly discernible on his face. Bright scene contrast and image depth have improved, too, while dark scene contrast continues to stun me. Since it would be useless to have this unit calibrated (because of misconvergence), I think I'll be pretty happy using DennisBP's settings until I get a new one. My regular ISF guy is going to do the first calibration, then I'm going to learn how to do my own.
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post #3494 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Yep, I have a laptop in additon to the DVE Bluray Calibration Disc recommended. We can also use the free AVS Rec709 disc, but I would think the updated DVE disc for Bluray may be better, plus I already have it. It would be great if we can figure this out together because I honestly would have zero motivation otherwise

all you really need are the greyscale 0-100 @ 10% changes from either DVE or the AVS disk. A basic positioning of the sensor for maximum ftL on a 100IRE screen and let the software do it's thing with the measurements. you guys might be surprised how far off it is, this RS50 needed a pretty good adjustment to get it right. I think the RS40 I just sent back was closer than this, shame I didn't get a chance to measure it first.
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post #3495 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagg View Post

Similar question with HDMI switches. I've got a FIOS cable box and a PS3 Blu-ray player that will both need to be connected to the RS40. I was thinking of using a switch so I only need to run one long cable to the location of the RS40. Can I get a HDMI 1.3 switch, or are there capabilities that I would be losing by not having a switch that specifically says it supports HDMI 1.4?

I don't see a 1.4 switch on Monoprice, just up to 1.3b


Thanks.

Check out Octava.
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post #3496 of 9680
1/19/11 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

sam, I did a basic greyscale calibration on the RS50 last night. The before / after is remarkable. I thought something look off with the default 6500k settings.

It took about an hour or so of playing around and re-testing to get it right. This is the best $$ I've spent yet with any of my HT gear.

you can see by the wide variety of settings that have been posted, that each projector is different, sometimes by a wide margin. I kept going back and forth between the default 6500k settings and the custom color setting corrected for the greyscale measurements - very noticeable difference. Flesh tones are much more natural now, Sky / grass is the correct color, etc.

big thanks to Kal from curtpalme.com for making this so easy to digest and understand. I can tell now this is going to be addicting.

Just received my RS40, calibrated by Jason of AVS! (Thank you Jason!)

Using the Natural (or is it Standard?) in any case, the gamut/mode that is not Wide1 or Wide2, Jason reports that the dE was less than 3 after calibration, an error theoretically undetectable by the human eye, but I would not put it past several forum members!

Coming from an RS10, this is a stunning upgrade, and for a lower list price/street price too!

Convergence is excellent. Turned off Sharpness, NR, CMD and turned aperture down to -15 and connected an Oppo 93 directly to the HDMI-1 input and let fly!

Noise? Have not looked from 6" on a gray ramp but definitely not an issue from seating distance.

Blu-ray looks delicious on a 1.0 gain Carada (39"X70") and Netflix looks surprisingly better through the Oppo than through my HTPC.


Despite panting dramatics from early adopters, and some QC issues with the first batch or two, this machine is a solid improvement to the entry level model of the RS series.

Note: this is 2D-only; 3D is a bonus still awaiting emitter and glasses.

The RS40 is an amazing achievement at its price point!


That is all....
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post #3497 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Yep, I have a laptop in additon to the DVE Bluray Calibration Disc recommended. We can also use the free AVS Rec709 disc, but I would think the updated DVE disc for Bluray may be better, plus I already have it. It would be great if we can figure this out together because I honestly would have zero motivation otherwise


Exactly my problem! I have gone through all the measurements/testing/FR graphs, etc......with my audio and not really looking forward to doing it with video, but I know it would be a good thing to learn and I would get more out of my displays. What type of light meter do we need? I assume the better ones are more accurate? What would be "good enough? I am new to all this.
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post #3498 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post


Exactly my problem! I have gone through all the measurements/testing/FR graphs, etc......with my audio and not really looking forward to doing it with video, but I know it would be a good thing to learn and I would get more out of my displays. What type of light meter do we need? I assume the better ones are more accurate? What would be "good enough? I am new to all this.

The eye-one lt should be good enough. Once you understand how it works it shouldn't be long. Those of us with RS40's from what i understand will just be doing primaries since we don't have a full CMS. So it's set brightness/contrast. Run through the IRE adjust gains/cuts as needed and maybe take a stab at gamma?
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post #3499 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:13am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Might be fun if we learned and did this together Do you have a laptop? I dont.

Oh and I have a good 6 ft tall adjustable tripod to use.
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post #3500 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtuomi View Post

In my opinion the ghosting is too bad for gaming. I've played on PS3 and PC (nVidia). You can normally adjust the stereo separation and making that really small helps with the ghosting, but also makes 3d effect less.

That's disappointing but kind of the impression I was getting.

I know with the pc route you can play around 500 games in true stereoscopic 3d. Does the rs40 accept 120hz?
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post #3501 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

great idea, $75 investment from each person and you guys can share the meter. It's relatively straight forward to use the meter and software. The low cost meter isn't perfect, but it's better than our eyes, no doubt.



no problem. The Nikon D90 should be able to capture at least the difference in color. My reds were low and had a green push as well.

I watched some scenes from "Cars" last night with the new settings (ones with some of your original screen shots, IIRC). What stunning color and contrast! And the "nighttime" scenes had miles of depth. The image this RS40 is capable of throwing is simply breathtaking. I also watched some of "The Sarah Connor Chronicles: First Season Blu-ray." I keep seeing things I've never noticed before. Mainly, though, I just can't believe what a ridiculous improvement the RS40 is over the Panasonic 4000 (and the Sharp 20k) that preceded it. My video library is all new again.

Come on, Jason, get me on a list for a new RS40. I can only imagine how great one with decent convergence is going to look, with a proper calibration.
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post #3502 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

You guys in Denver? I have an eye-on and laptop. I am 3 hours away but I have nobody in Scottsbluff to share my passion of HT with. Accept of course Miss America since she is from here.

Well that sounds great as long as you don't mind the 3 hour one-way drive and spending a day in Denver with Todd and myself. If that's too much, let us know if you're open to mailing it, and we will pay for the postage shipping both ways, we probably only need it for a few days.
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post #3503 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Exactly my problem! I have gone through all the measurements/testing/FR graphs, etc......with my audio and not really looking forward to doing it with video, but I know it would be a good thing to learn and I would get more out of my displays. What type of light meter do we need? I assume the better ones are more accurate? What would be "good enough? I am new to all this.

you guys can figure it out in 1 night the basics of the greyscale calibration, it's not difficult thanks to Kal's guide. The meter is only $140 or so.
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post #3504 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post


Well that sounds great as long as you don't mind the 3 hour one-way drive and spending a day in Denver with Todd and myself. If that's too much, let us know if you're open to mailing it, and we will pay for the postage shipping both ways, we probably only need it for a few days.

Yeah. I would come down to hang out and help. I go to Denver often so it's not a biggie. I am no pro but I have done a lot of reading and done the process on my 8500 a couple times to at least give us a good starting position.

Plus I get to see a couple rs40's before I try the calibration on mine. Learning best practices is worth the drive.
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post #3505 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

It's time for me to take the plunge into calibration.

I know that all projectors and viewing environments are different, but I've noticed a big improvement in color accuracy with DennisBP's settings from page 1. The other settings, along with the default presets, don't yield results as good as DennisBP's with my RS40. I noticed extremely subtle differences in the skin tones of a local sportscaster yesterday. He had a tiny, tiny pimple whose slight redness was clearly discernible on his face. Bright scene contrast and image depth have improved, too, while dark scene contrast continues to stun me. Since it would be useless to have this unit calibrated (because of misconvergence), I think I'll be pretty happy using DennisBP's settings until I get a new one. My regular ISF guy is going to do the first calibration, then I'm going to learn how to do my own.

Joe,
I am assuming you simply plugged in the values below from the first page. His screen Size: 100" 16x9, but he is using an ST130 screen (1.3 gain), whic is dimmer than your HP 2.8 and his throw Ratio is 2.13. So his configuration is actually very close to mine since I am at a 2x throw ratio (at 16:9) and I am using a 1.1 gain screen.

What I don't understand is how he was able to save the altered settings under the Natural Present which cannot be written onto. Did Dennis mean that he initially used the Natural preset as a start and then made all the changes? But even then, the JVC menu or the remote would not let you overwrite the existing presets. You will have to use the User Presets 1, 2, and 3.

Here are DennisBP's setting, and they seem to be the most popular or agreed upon so far.


Color Mode: Natural

Contrast 1
Brightness 0
Color -9
Tint -2
Sharpness 0
Color Space Standard
Lens Aperature 0

Gain Red 0
Gain Green 0
Gain Blue -16
Offset Red -3
Offset Green -2
Offset Blue 0
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post #3506 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Yeah. I would come down to hang out and help. I go to Denver often so it's not a biggie. I am no pro but I have done a lot of reading and done the process on my 8500 a couple times to at least give us a good starting position.

Plus I get to see a couple rs40's before I try the calibration on mine. Learning best practices is worth the drive.

Well come on down brotha! Maybe a Saturday or Sunday trip, depending on everyone's availability. Between both Todd and myself, and some quality 3D hanging out time, it will take us most of the day.
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post #3507 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Here are DennisBP's setting, and they seem to be the most popular or agreed upon so far.

Gain Red 0
Gain Green 0
Gain Blue -16
Offset Red -3
Offset Green -2
Offset Blue 0

I had to pull back quite a bit of blue last night during calibration, it was overwhelming the red levels by a fair amount. no wonder it didn't look right.

I am going in for round 2 tonight to adjust the gamma, a number of folks reported that the preset gamma settings aren't tracking flat and mine is off as well.
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post #3508 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:37am
If the "Mile High Mafia" is getting into calibration please keep the rest of us informed on how it goes so I can have a head start on calibration when my long awaited AVS RS40 finally gets to me.
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post #3509 of 9680
1/19/11 at 10:45am
Guys
The auto settings in the 3D format working for you?
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post #3510 of 9680
1/19/11 at 12:26pm
Once you guys actually get the tools and start to work on calibrating your RS40 or X3 projectors, I suggest you put your results and discussions related to calibration on the new RS40 calibration thread.
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