Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 128

Haha... well done! I've done this sort of thing myself, I think even with one of Deja Vu's "!" laden arguments. But what about LED DLP's? They are nowhere near as costly as 3 chippers. And, they can achieve good on/off to boot. Don't you think they will get cheaper and support 3D in the VERY near future, like next generation Vango?

I read in Sound & Vision that we can buy it sometime in 2012...April if I recall properly.

But the question is brightness in 3D mode. Some recent measurements show the Vango to be around 400 lumen calibrated. 3D will dim that even more because of 120 hz refresh rate. Substantially more powerful led tech will be needed. Maybe twice as bright for starters.

I still don't see LCOS as the ideal 3D technology. I'm a big fan of it in 2D though. The JVC looks to be doing fairly ok in 96hz (24p bluray), but I have a feeling that there will be a lot of ghosting when 120hz mode is used (Dish, videogames, etc.). Not enough down time for the panels.

That would be awesome if we could get a bit more lumen kick out of them.......... I take it RBE is much better on the LED DLPs? I have not seen one yet so I cant speak to it. Under 5k is the target $$$ range in my mind and we are at least a few years off from that I would think.

RBE seems not an issue with LED. There may be some who insist they still see it but I can't be sure as I don't follow the LED's. But it seems for all intents and purposes RBE is gone. The switching frequency is much, much higher.

Yes, more lumens, lower price would be great, though there are some in the Hi Power theads who tell us both of those are bad too.

Neither would I! However I am considering getting a gaming pc that would be able to play 100's of games in 3d right now. In fact it can argued that pc gaming provides the most 3d entertainment value right now! In that case ghosting with gaming would be a big deal.

As big as 3d movies are , I have a feeling that 3d gaming might be just as big, if not bigger. Thus my dilemma about 3d gaming on the rs40.

Yet no pj in its class can touch its 2d and 3d movie watching experience. Uuuugggghhh!!!

I am trying to decide on the final screen surface and size for my new media room. We plan to get a Stewart Luxus A (motorized) screen, probably 115". The planned throw distance is 16' and we're going to have two rows of seating, one at 10.5', one at 16.5'. This room is in my basement so we have pretty good light control, and the planned colors for the room are burgundy and brown. Stewart suggested an UltraMatte 150 for use with the RS40. I guess the main rationale for the 1.5 gain was to aid with 3D viewing. Does this seem like a good idea, given that probably 90% of our viewing will be 2D?

In general I'm wondering how the projection modes on the RS40 work. Can we have separate settings (manual iris, etc.) for 2D vs. 3D? Does the projector automatically use a higher output lamp mode to put out more lumens when in 3D mode?

I believe a Finnish X3 owner (mtuomi) mentioned that PC gaming showed a lot of ghosting on the JVC.

I do agree that PC gaming is by far the largest 3D content provider. I will be building a 3D gaming PC in the coming year for sure.

Here's a list of a current and scheduled 3d games on the PS3:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010/...-and-blu-rays/

Quite a bit more quantity AND quality than most people may have thought.

Like I said, 3d gaming is a big deal.

I love 3d blurays as much as anyone, but if you look at the 30 blurays available, that will take you a total of maybe 50 hours to watch, not counting multiple viewings. What does the 3d hungry viewer do then to quench his insatiable desire for more 3d content? A) Find a time machine and warp to 2012 or B) 3d gaming, counting the PC and consoles will provide almost endless 3d entertainment.

Not a screen expert so can't help you there. But as far as different projection modes are concerned the 40 comes with 6 pre-set mods (Film, Cinema, Anime, Narural, Stage, 3D) and 3 user modes, all available at the touch of 1 button.

Yes the 3D mode does put the bulb in HIGH mode automatically.

The iris (aperture) is controlled by remote and you can modify the setting in every mode, including pre-set, and the changes are saved. By the way you can modify pretty much every settings in every modes with few exceptions. An execption, for example is you can only use 2 gamma settings in 3D (which may or may not be a bug).

This is a good point, but I think of gamers as the silent majority. Actually, IIRC, 3D gaming surpassed movies in revenues quite some time ago. But that didn't translate into 3D TVs showing up everywhere, and it didn't cross over into a widespread general push for 3D in the "mainstream." 3D's success at commercial theaters around the world, and Avatar, were responsible for that. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a gamer, so I'm just going to continue to hope for the success of 3D@home. I do suspect that 1080p/60fps/eye 3D gaming on projectors isn't far off. It will probably mirror the way HDTVs moved from 720p/1080i capability to 1080p capability. Initially, most HDTVs weren't capable of accepting a 1080p input. Most people didn't notice, because they didn't have a source capable of outputting it. Maybe some of next year's 3D projectors will be Full HD 3D gaming capable, (with even more ghosting concerns ).

Has anyone encountered long bulb ramp up times? I get a strong red tint for about an hour before it gets to maximum brightness. You can see the bulb flicker as it gradually increases in brightness too. I'm not sure if it's the pj or the bulb that's doing it because if I switch to 3D mode it goes away but the instant I put it back to a normal lamp preset it seems to go back to the red tint. Something doesn't seem right.

That's pretty funny! I got a laugh out of it - thanks! Don't forget though that you seem somewhat perturbed that some RS-40s may show less ghosting than yours - unit to unit variation? the JVC RS-40 probably is the best 2D/3D solution available right now, but right now could end tomorrow. I have an Epson 7500, and 9500 and a Sony G90 for 2D - I'm covered! For 3D the Acer has been fantastic - my few complaints have been overcome by activating my four remaining brain cells and coming up with simple solutions that work - ceiling mount with an extension for example. I tried it on my lap, but the 3D was so orgasmically good I got overly excited and I couldn't keep the projector in one position.

And what about gaming? - no ghosting with the Acer for gaming, so it looks like a multiple projector solution for some of those individuals.

I see no RBE in 3D mode, but I have some problems in 2D mode. You shouldn't assume that everyone else has the same RBE problem that you do or that it will be a problem with DLP in 3D mode.

I think you live in the Montreal area (maybe I'm wrong). If you're ever interested in seeing the Acer in action drop me a PM. I'm only a few hours away near Kingston, Ontario (assuming you're near Montreal). I'll also show you what a true fade to black looks like on my gamma corrected Sony G90 - that's something not many have witnessed in a totally light controlled room.

The great thing about the 3D 720p DLPs is that they are a benchmark when it comes to value and hopefully keep the big boys constantly scrambling to provide relative value for their products! Is that a bad thing?

When you say "put it back to a normal lamp preset" are you actually talking about setting the "Picture Mode" to other than "3D"? What happens when you switch the "Lamp Power" setting from 'normal' to 'high' when using any of the non-3D presets for Picture Mode?

How goes the RS40? In light of your experience, are you going to go ahead with your plan to move to the RS50 (or RS60)?

I just want to give Kudos to Chief. I Ordered the RPAU mount last March in anticipation of getting the RS15. Well the project took longer than expected (imagine that) and I didn't order a projector until this month and I'm in line to get the rs40 (sometime). Chief sent me the SLB-U mounting plate at no cost to me. Rare customer service in this day and age.

Now for a question. How far is the rs40 lens from the mounting pole? I'm guessing if the projector is centered, it should be around 9". I'm trying to order a screen and am doing some calculations to make sure I don't get the wrong size screen.

Thanks.

I've noticed this more recently. There's a significant red tint to the image for some time when the projector is first fired up. I don't know that it's an hour, but it's quite some time. I don't remember noticing this much in the beginning, but that might just be me.

Do you have Clear Motion Drive enabled in your normal viewing mode? When I display a gray ramp test pattern it seems to take on a red tinge when CMD is enabled. It doesn't make sense that CMD would affect grayscale but you might want to check. More likely this is just one of my many delusions...

Glad you enjoyed my post I enjoyed doing it and I have to admit, you are one of my most favorite posters...........I also have to admit that I love F'ing with you Your posts are hilarious though, keep it up!

You might not have ghosting in gaming, but again...............you get..........RBE...............I will keep my ghosting thank you very much!

Just because you are supposedly not seeing RBE in 3d mode does not mean others are not. I have read many reports of people still seeing RBE in 3d mode on the ACER. To be fair, I have also read that some see less RBE in 3d mode, but the fact that quite a few still see RBE in 3d tells me ALL I need to know knowing how sensitive I am to this horrible artifact RBE, even a little of it just kills the movie/game, etc.....experience for me, but thats just me. Throw in the horrible placement options, horrible contrast, etc........and even at $500, FOR ME this would be a terrible buy. Even a $500 projector is a horrible value if you cant get around one of its drawbacks which there is no doubt I would not. However, if you are one who does not see or is not bothered by RBE, and you can make this ACER work in your room and you dont mind dealing with a HTPC, then at that point, its a great value! FOR ME though, until those things are eliminated, I would not throw out $100, much less $500 for the ACER and in light of that, I dont agree with you that the 720p DLPs are a benchmark in value (for me at least) since I cant find ANY value in a projector that I could not live with (which is the case with single chip DLP for me).

A 3 projector solution sounds like a complete and total headache IMHO, but if it works for you than that is all that matters.

Understand though that my feelings on the ACER are just in reference TO ME. I have actually tried to sell a good friend of mine on the ACER as far as his 3d plans go since he is big into his PC, does not have a RBE issue for 2d (so I assume 3d wont be an issue) and was wanting to get into the 3d experience for relatively cheap.........in light of all that, the ACER is a no brainer (and he has plenty of placement flexibility with his room as well).


You are wrong, I dont live in Montreal. I live in Denver (along with Sam). In light of everything I said above, I have VERY little interest in seeing the ACER at this point since it would only be a downgrade overall to my RS40 as far as 3d goes 2d is not even worth mentioning since the 40 will kill that little ACER in this department! The biggest interest I have in seeing the ACER at this point in time is to just confirm that I would see RBE in 3d mode just like I have seen RBE in 2d mode on every single chip DLP I have ever viewed (some have been better than others, but I have never seen one that RBE was even close to totally gone and I have never seen one that I would want to view day in and day out because of this one unfortunate fact). I would love to see the new LED DLPs since many have said RBE is a thing of the past with those, but they need to dip below ~5k before I could even justify a purchase and have 3d capability........do you happen to have one of these even though they dont exist yet?



Thank you for the invite though and I will drop you a PM if I am ever in the area since I WOULD LOVE to see your G90 in action as I have somehow never seen one (is yours corrected? EDIT: Just noticed you said it was.......would love to see this G90!) and have heard so many good things over the years. What kind of screen are you using with your G90 again? I bet those fade to blacks are a thing of beauty!

If you are ever in Denver you are more than welcome to come and check out the best 2d/3d projector on the market right now (RS40), but you might miss seeing RBE which I cant do much about unless we eat some ACID before the demo I am sure SAM would be happy to give you a demo of his amazing HT as well and we could just make a day out of it.

Have you seen SAW 3d yet DejaVu? I bought this last night, but have not watched it yet. What is your opinion on this disc as far as the 3d factor goes?

You should investigate Da-Lite's High Power fabric before you pull the trigger on the UltraMatte 150. You'll get more gain, no hotspotting, and it's significantly less expensive. Check out the High Power thread in the screen forum.


The THX mode on the RS50/RS60 models will automatically switch to high lamp mode when it detects a 3D input. The RS40 doesn't have the THX mode so you manually change Picture Modes. I've configured the User1 Picture Mode with my preferred 2D settings (low lamp, iris closed, etc.) and User2 with 3D settings (high lamp, iris open). It's easy to change Picture Modes on the fly using the remote.

Sorry but WOW thats a bold statement. Lets see... hmmm... RS40 $4500 (no RBE) or the H5360 $500 (no ghosting). Now lets look a little deeper, for $4000 more I get (after 20+ minute warm up) little to no ghosting (certain titles only ) and zero RBE... or for $4000 less I get zero ghosting with all titles and some RBE (if you can see it ) with the Acer.

Yeah right!

Okay I leave you RS40 owners in peace. But I just couldn't resist.

I haven't seen SAW yet - I'll have to read some reviews before I buy it since the few follow ups I've seen since the first one were disappointing for me.

The Acer in 3D mode with glasses on has good contrast and black levels for a digital projector - not excellent like the JVCs, but much better than you're giving it credit for.

There is no projector that can do it all at the moment. That's why I still have a G90 for the black level and fades - even the movie Devil is raised a couple of levels due to the awesomely long fades in the elevator scenes - much more impact and much more suspenseful when the room goes completely dark when it is supposed to. I'm using my HP screen with the G90 too. The colour shift is minimal, much like the slight ghosting you see - I only see it slightly on full screen white. It allows a CRT projector to be used with a 120" screen and provides a very punchy image with complete, absolute fade to black - you can see absolutely nothing during the fade!

I advocated for a little digital business projector and the Da-lite HP screen about 10 years ago on this forum and took some heat for it; however, I got literally hundreds of emails from members thanking me, so I guess it was worth it (I posted under my actual name at the time). I advocated for gamma correction and the HP screen on the CRT forum about 6 years ago and again took some heat for it until devices that would simplify gamma correction came on the market. Now I see there are others advocating for the HP screen to be used with CRTs. My G90 is mounted a couple of feet above floor level to retain the HP's gain. I've been advocating for the Acer projector for a couple of months and 3D in general for the past 5 to 6 months and some people don't want to hear it. What do I care? - been there and taken the criticism before. I also advocated for HD-DVD! Oh well, you can't win them all. It keeps you humble.

I got in on the pre-order..............not even close to "$4000 more".

All things considered, it is the best bang/buck 3d projector on the market right now. MOST people buying a 3d projector are still going to be doing mostly 2d viewing........in light of just that, what else can compete with the RS40 right now as far as 3d projectors go?

IF 3d is your only goal and you have a severe RBE issue like me and many others, I still stand by that comment, but again, that is just in reference TO ME and the others who suffer from RBE to the degree that I do. I cant stand RBE so that puts the ACER out of the running. I have already mentioned several times that if you dont have an issue with RBE and can make the ACER work in your setup, it is the best bang/buck ticket for 3d right now. Hell, like I mentioned in my post above, I am trying to sell a good friend of mine on the ACER since he meets the requirments........he does not have a RBE issue even in 2d, has a nice PC that he enjoys ****ing with and has plenty of placement flexibility. Since he is mainly interested in 3d, I told him to save the cash on something like a flat panel or RS40 and go with a ACER/HP pulldown screen combo.

Funny you mention Devil............I watched that a few weeks back and when those total black screens came on, it was one of the first times I noticed how much higher the black level is with my new HP screen (since the overall brightness is higher) and thought about how awesome and how much more effective those scenes would have been with a machine that could do a true fade to black. I would love to see this on a G90 or LED DLP since I am sure it is VERY cool

Sure, I can see why you couldn't resist. If you limit comparison to ghosting and RBE I can see your "Sorry but WOW thats a bold statement. Lets see... hmmm..." argument. If RBE and ghosting are all that matter to you, then, yes... have a field day with the Acer and leave us in peace.

But for the rest of us, let's take your advice... yes indeed, "lets look a little deeper" that THAT!

For those that keep posting on this thread about the Acer, or any of the other low cost 720p "not quite 3D ready" (i.e., no HDMI 1.4 nor support for the current 3DTV signal formats without the addition of the Optoma $400 box), and feel compelled to compare it to more expensive 3D projectors -- then the most appropriate comparison would be to the new Sharp xv-z17000, which is the first 1080p DLP 3D projector and the first DLP 3D projector with HDMI 1.4 inputs and support for the mandatory 3DTV signal formats. Likewise if you really want to compare the JVC with its LCoS technology to a DLP technology projector with 3DTV capabilities, then we should be talking about the Sharp vs. JVC (or other 1080p true 3D ready DLP projectors as they come to market).

As for the cost the Acer plus the Optoma box (required to make it into a real 3DTV projector) cost nearly $1K street price which is about $2.5K less that the street price of a RS40 (not $4K). But for many many HT owners the cheap DLPs (and even many expensive DLPs) lack of lens shift and a very limited zoom range simply rule out those projectors. I currently have two dedicated home theaters, in 2 homes, and they would not work in either of mine.

I currently own DILA (LCoS), LCD and DLP projectors and each technology has it positives and negatives. And I do agree that in terms of eliminating 3D crosstalk DLP has an inherent advantage, but DLP technology also has a number of limitations and different HT owners have different priorities and thus there will always be those that like DLP and those that don't. I see no point is debating why "I will never buy a projector with RBE" vs. "I will never buy a projector with ghosting". We all know all of the current technolgies have limitations, and while we hope the manufacturers are able to make improvements in the future, we should just accept that none of the current technologies are perfect and different people will prefer one technology over another based on their own priorities and the size of their bank account.

In addition to the current micro-display projection technologies, I previously owned CRT based projectors including a Sony G70 on which I ran 3D from a HTPC (120Hz frame sequential using LCD shutter glasses - about a decade ago).

PURELY speaking 3D the JVC and Acer are very competitive, there is no denying that. One has zero ghosting and the other has zero RBE. But the cost difference is 4 GRAND! Now ""All things considered' 'let's look a little deeper"", is the JVC worth the extra 4 grand? For most of you here I guess it was. But for the rest of us, it is not. The reality of it is that many wont buy the acer nor the jvc and will wait till something comes out that is the Acer and JVC wrapped up into one awesome projector.

Again with the "RBE and ghosting" thing and NOTHING else. There's more to life than those two issues. That's simply NOT looking "a little deeper". Why don't those of us who need more lumens buy a $400 Epson business projector? They sure are bright!

I'm sure it's safe to assume that most of us here already know the pros and cons between the two . You seem to imply that I'm ignorant to the other factors and benefits the JVC has over the Acer. I'm well aware that the JVC is superior to the Acer in every other aspect besides 3d. The fact is that I believe the JVC is a fantastic projector, but just because it was worth the extra 4 grand to you doesn't make it the BEST option for 3d projection.

My thoughts are this; the majority of early adaptors of 3d projection won't be able to justify the $4500 asking price of the JVC, despite its excellent 2d performance. With that said, many will not get the Acer for reasons already mentioned. I think that both will be written off and most will just wait till there is a better option.

With that said I think the minority of us that couldn't wait, or better yet didn't want to wait for 3d, it’s a choice between the Acer and JVC models. For me it was and easy decision ! I just couldn’t swallow the extra 4 g's when knowing that I could pick up the Acer for a fraction of the cost ! Now I'm happy to wait for the Acer and JVC to give birth to my next projector upgrade .

I had some gift certificates from Christmas so I just purchased the following in 3D - Saw, Step Up, Grand Canyon, Wild Ocean and Under the Sea. I also picked up two 3D Shrek movies from a friend. Man, I've got to feed this addiction. I'll let you know how the 3D is for Saw. I don't particularly like these type of movies, but I'll take a look. I feel sorry for those who just can't find a way to appreciated 3D. For me, 3D is a game changer - 2D BD I rent. I'm willing to purchase 3D BD so bring it on! Maybe I'll let the Acer do a little lap dance for me while I watch Step Up.