Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 277

When specifically asked about the lamp situation at CEDIA JVC Reps said they had some lamp issues but they have been resolved.

Are you certain that more than one JVC rep gave the exact same statement? Did you hear this yourself from these "CEDIA JVC Reps"? Do you have the names of any of these reps?

I would considering the JVC rep's comments at Cedia as conjecture.. what else was the guy going to say when confronted over and over by potential customers?

When I spoke to an executive VP recently at JVC HQ , they would not consider discussing the possibility of a lamp issue, yet 2 weeks later at Cedia, some random JVC guy says 'it's been resolved'.

in the end, we aren't going to know until the new models are on the street and early adopters (beta testers) start putting some hours on them.

I'd like to know if they somehow resolved the 'warm up' times as this was an indication that when the lamp dimmed, you were stuck in perpetual ghost mode for the rest of that lamp's life.

Here is one example. Others reported hearing the same thing. If you wish to challenge the assertion that JVC has not admitted a lamp issue that is your prerogative. I'm done tho.

The JVC's have accessible service menu's, correct?

There may be some voltage information in the service menu as well as some extra temperature info related to the lamp, not sure, but perhaps someone with more JVC experience can answer that.

On my old Sanyo, a lot of this information was shown in the service menu, gotta be super careful here as these are the settings areas where you can really screw up the projector.

If this functionality is shown, then maybe you guys should start a new thread and take some arbitrary information and compare it to see if there are any significant variations in the reported numbers between units.

There is nothing like that in the service menu that I could find.

I think to see that kind of information you'd need access to the Engineeing menu and IIRC you need particular software to be able to do that (ie only JVC).

Warm up time is not exclusive to JVC anymore since some Panny owners have reported this phenomenon as well.

From that post by Ron Jones:


To me, this does not sound convincing at all. I am not doubting that Ron Jones is reporting what he was told. But apparently the JVC rep said it was "unofficial" information, and there was some vague notion of changes to the bulb design or manufacturing process or QC, but the lamps have the same part number. In other words, nothing that can be verified by purchasers. Another JVC rep claims that the problem is small and the failure rate is normal. In fact, the second rep is apparently contradicting the first, since if the problem is small and "normal", then there would be no reason to change the lamps to fix it. To me, this sounds like reps just BSing. We do not even have the names of these reps so that they can be asked for further details. I bet JVC would officially deny any such things were even said.

I work for a company and QA products from multiple vendors. Whenever there are issues with products each vendor is quick to point the finger at the other and getting them to work together to resolve an issue is like pulling teeth. If there is a design flaw with the JVCs and they admit it they can't point the finger at anyone but themselves. If however they say it's a lamp issue they don't make the lamps themselves and they can blame shift. If JVC blames the lamp manufacturer and since the lamp manufacturer in this case JVC is the customer I'm sure they have some pull to get the lamp manufacturer to pony up some new lamps.

It also may seem that you aren't taking into consideration that this is AVS. Personally, I've had an RS2 clone for 2.5 years and I haven't hit 600 hours on the lamp. In my case I wouldn't see issues until over a year later and at that point I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if I weren't keeping up with forums and such. I'm sure there are others out there who may have had the issues but may have no idea they are not alone.


When you say "How exactly would they be able to explain no issues in the 45/55/65 if they continue to have issues with the 40/50/60?" you need to clarify who JVC is explaining these issues to. If their customer service isn't that great then they may not give a hoot what happens until it starts effecting their sales. "Hopefully" these issues won't be seen in the new models. There is certainly no guarantee and more than likely I will still get the JVC as of now the Sony HW30 is the only other model that I see in this price range that I am interested in and it still seems priced a bit high for the feature set compared to the fantastic pre-order price for the RS45.

If anyone can swing it I think the RS45 is worth the risk considering the price but in the upper models I'd by the Sony VW95 over the upper end JVCs any day of the week but that's just me.


I agree. This rep may not even have a clue technically but overheard someone who told someone else who heard them say they believe the lamp issues are resolved.

In the end we can only speculate and the only way we will really know what root of the problem is with the RS40 is if the RS45 has no lamp issues while using the same lamp that the RS40 uses. It that's the case I expect there to be some very unhappy RS40 owners out there.

True, and I am taking the risk on the RS-45 because of the ridiculously low price, and I bought a DLP to hold me until the D-DAY time comes. Already nearing 100 hours on the DLP in the first week, just leaving it on 24/7, lol...

Agreed, the corporate world is full of politics and blame games, even when your not in Washington DC.

It's your fault, it's my fault, it's his fault, it's our fault, nah - it's no-one's fault, it's just customers imagining it, a bunch of crazy people in a forum that came to some conclusion (possible, heh).

If the JVCs have the lamp issues resolved these projectors will be the best performance/value for the money if you can live with inferior motion and 3D IMO (unless of course we are surprised with the motion or 3D).

100 hours in the first week? You'll shoot your eye out Ralphie!!! Get out of the house and see some daylight.

And you got the politics right.

Here is your original quote (which I quoted in post )
The logic doesn't work for me.
Fact: they are using the same lamp in both series (the 0's vs the 5's). Ergo, one thing will happen:
A) Either they both have lamp issues
or
B) The lamp problem is fixed and neither have abnormal issues
or
C) the 0's continue to have problems but the 5's don't.

I say if the final answer is C then eventually JVC will have to recall/repair them. If they don't then a CLA would seem likely. Therefore your argument "one reason why I think the issue might actually be an issue with the projector itself. If JVC were to come clean they would have to recall all of their 2010 line which would be very expensive. It's much easier to blame shift and ignore the complaints." didn't make sense to me. All they'd end up doing is just be "buying time" (literally).

I don't think speculating is going to result in any positive effect but we'll start getting some answers in a few weeks (hopefully).

What is a CLA?

I wish we could we get answers in a few weeks, but I doubt it, a few posters in the forum having their lamps burn out isn't going to tell us that much. Anecdotal at best. It will take a few months to know anything most likely. Perhaps if enough people measure the lumen loss over time we can see if there is abnormal lumen loss, but even then it doesn't tell us all that much.


I'm leaving it on when sleeping, just letting the lamp burn-in and seeing if there are any issues with this Viewsonic.
I think with a video processor the Viewsonic would be as good as the $1000+ DLP's, because all it really needs is some help with the color and motion.

You seem convinced that companies think through things long term and logically but from my experience that's not always the case. I could go into this further but in the end it is what it is. If JVC really used good thought processes the RSx5 series would have better FI and faster panels this year considering that all of the competition did but that's not the case.

Right. Also, if JVC actually planned so carefully, then they would have done some tests on the bulbs in the 2010 projectors, running a batch of them for, say 700 hours (a month) and seeing how many fail or dim prematurely. If they had done that, they would have known about the problem in late 2010.

Assuming companies plan carefully and execute those plans consistently is hopelessly optimistic.

Many companies are understaffed and over worked and deal with issue as they come in the best that they can. And if were merely hours of use on the bulb that causes then in a months time a new bulb could roughly have 500 hours on it if left on continuously.

With the RS40 series being a newly designed line I'm open to believing the issue is more than just the lamp. If these were simply lamp issues then the lamp has a design flaw if users are replacing them every 2-500 hours. To my knowledge that wasn't happening in previous JVC models. There are threads with the pre-2010 models where others talk about lamps dimming early but I don't recall reading about exploding bulbs.

No, as I said, 700 hours. 30 days x 24 hours per day = 720 hours.

Dyslexic me...s/b CAL -- Class Action Legal problem....


I did say start in a few weeks and I was thinking specifically about the numbers on the bulb itself. Otherwise yes, it'll take time.

OK, no worries.

I know almost nothing about lamps, but I am thinking it shouldn't be too hard to rule out heat, no?

To me it sounds like when a bulb explodes it's probably heat related, no? I mean it could be voltage from the P/S, but then the likely outcome of that is to overdrive it resulting in too much heat?

Perhaps as the lamp ages it becomes more sensitive to the heat. Maybe changes in room temperature are affecting the bulb life more than we know (some people don't run their heaters in winter), we need some West Coast San Diego people to test this (ok just kidding).

I am just guessing here, but how does this sound:

Step 1:
Can we safely get a thermal temperature strip on or near the lamp itself to monitor the temperature, you can buy these cheap now-a-days, just make sure to get one that is heat resistant and will not melt onto the lamp.

Step 2:
Find out the maximum operating temps of the lamp in general.

Anywhere an IR temp sensor can be used (probably not).

I just did a rough guess instead of doing the math. I was just a tad off.

I'm guessing these lamps explode because some of them simply cannot handle 220w, even though they're supposed to. I've read of cases of premature dimming at 160w, but I can't recall ever reading here about a lamp exploding at 160w.

There are three ways to use the lamp...

1. Always in 160w (normal).
2. Always in 220w (high).
3. Toggling from 160w to 220w.

I'm guessing that the exploding lamps are happining mostly, if not exclusively, in the third scenario. That's when the lamp is already on and it gets bumped up from that state to a higher one. I think that causes the biggest stress on the lamp. I'm just thinking of all the cases where it explodes either because someone is trying 3D, or, the lamp is too dim and they bump it up to get a brighter image.

Do we have any attorneys on this discussion who have had a bad bulb experience? Perhaps they might chime in on the chances of a CAL and whether it might generate some results. Somebody did it with the Sony Qualia and it paid off. I think it is the only way you will get the true cause and data about the problem.

I wonder how some of the reviewers out there highly rated the jvc x3 for it,s 3D performance, i have seen about 13 films now all of them are of the top rated titles and all of them show excessive amount of ghosting/crosstalk and flickers, no matter if i play them through my panasonic bdt310 or the oppo 93eu. if u ask me i would truly rate it as one of the weak example out there when it comes to 3D.
still however its 2D performance is one of the best out there.

imo, that's the problem with the professional reviews, recognizing and reporting on ghosting is a bit subjective, similar to RBE. it bothers some more than others.

None of the 'pro' reviews did follow ups after the projectors had a few hundred hours when ghosting pretty much become permanent until you swap out to a new lamp. In addition, I can only recall 1 pro review that had the stones to call out JVC on the gamma/CMS issues and there was also no follow up to that either.

this is why I take the new marketing claims and early 'previews' from Cedia with a boulder sized grain of salt.. only once they are in the hands of some of our critical members (and the honeymoon wears off) do you start to hear about the warts. This can take months after the projector hits the streets as was the case with the 40/50/60.

yes exactly zombie10k!
i bought mine as a demo from the shop and the lamp was at 120 hrs. and now it,s at 220 hrs but even when the lamp was at 120 hrs. i could see the ghosting very clearly that it can give me realy headache sometimes.

Hi Guys,

My first bulbs blew out with less than 300hrs, JVC replaced this a few months back and sent a new bulb.

My new bulb with less then 300hrs is dimming pretty bad. I only view on weekends and called JVC and they pretty much are washing there hands with my situation saying theres nothing they can do for me.

Who should I talk to over at JVC, what are my options besides spending money on a new bulbs or selling my system, seems like service department sucks and they don't want to listen. The warranty on these bulbs are horrible for people liek me who want to view on the weekends only.

Thanks,
Jay

Can you post any part numbers or serial numbers you see on your current lamp and/or lamp housing?

Also, if you still have them, the numbers for the old bulb.