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Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I second this request. As I mentioned originally, the important thing to focus on besides the grid lines themselves, is the single pixel that appears in each grid (only on the AVS HD 709 pattern).

If convergence is very good this single pixels found in each grid box will look like a single white pixel. If it is bad, it will look like a small cluster consisting of a red, blue and green pixel. If it is somewhere between good and bad two colors will be essentially on top of each other (to form the pixel) with the other fringing out of the side.

Please take some screen shots up close (about 1.5 feet away) of the grid in various places and some of the single pixels inside the grid boxes, and try to focus on the pixels. I know you say you only have a basic point and shoot camera but that is totally fine and suitable for the job.

Also please take a screen shot of your 0% and 100% patterns (which I mentioned in one the post above). For these shots take them from a distance which is far enough back to capture the whole screen in the photo, but no farther back than that.

Thanks!

I understand the test and why I would look at it (on my unit). What I don't understand is why you want to see photo's of other folks convergence.....doesn't this exhibit a unit to unit variation? Does his convergence have any bearing on what others will be?
post #92 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I HIGHLY recommend following Lawguy's advice and downloading the AVS HD 709 calibration disc. It is very easy to do and it is free. You burn it to a DVD disc (even though you play it back in your blu-ray player) so you only need DVD media and a DVD burner to make the disc (not a blu-ray disc non blu-ray media required).

As he pointed out, you can get it here with full instructions: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496 . Having this is not only important for evaluating your unit now but for keeping a watchful eye on it in the future.

To answer your question about which patterns - once you have the disc go into the section on HCFR patterns and choose Full Field patterns. For the all white test, select the 100% pattern. This will fill your screen edge to edge which bright white. For the black pattern (to check for bright corners), use the 0% pattern from the same area of the disc. This will display complete black edge to edge. For these tests do NOT adjust your brightness or contrast.



It is not the only way, but it is by far the best way. The patterns you've used so far are "ok", but the one on the AVS HD 709 disc is by far better (more revealing of any issues).



Yes, great to hear. Although its been such a prevalent problem since the RS1 that I'll want to see this one first-hand before getting too excited about it. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

I second this request. As I mentioned originally, the important thing to focus on besides the grid lines themselves, is the single pixel that appears in each grid (only on the AVS HD 709 pattern).

If convergence is very good this single pixels found in each grid box will look like a single white pixel. If it is bad, it will look like a small cluster consisting of a red, blue and green pixel. If it is somewhere between good and bad two colors will be essentially on top of each other (to form the pixel) with the other fringing out of the side.

Please take some screen shots up close (about 1.5 feet away) of the grid in various places and some of the single pixels inside the grid boxes, and try to focus on the pixels. I know you say you only have a basic point and shoot camera but that is totally fine and suitable for the job.

Also please take a screen shot of your 0% and 100% patterns (which I mentioned in one the post above). For these shots take them from a distance which is far enough back to capture the whole screen in the photo, but no farther back than that.

Thanks!

I will do my best tonight. I may try to take the day off tomorrow. and I wikll be off Friday through Sunday anyways, pkenty of time to take care of the mount issues, the blue rain issue with my Denon 4311 receiver, and hopefully more extensive and advanced convergence, uniformity and Digital noise testing.
post #93 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

It would have been nice if during the Radioshack a couple of Victorias Secret models walked into the store while I was making my purchase, but this dream was as nerdy as can be.

And yes if someone wants to send me their emitter, please do, as you can tell I have reached quite a desperate stage after one night of no 3D

At least you weren't in Radio Shack trying to buy Bose gear....

Great job on the reports - you lucky bastard!!
post #94 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

At least you weren't in Radio Shack trying to buy Bose gear....

Great job on the reports - you lucky bastard!!

Not so lucky apparently with my expensive Denon 4311 receiver

I am seeing Purple Rain like Prince! (its actually blue), but only with the 4311 in the mix.
post #95 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Not so lucky apparently with my expensive Denon 4311 receiver

I am seeing Purple Rain like Prince! (its actually blue), but only with the 4311 in the mix.

I must be snake bit because I've only had 1 trouble free Denon product so I don't buy their stuff anymore. But when I said you're a lucky bastard it was because you have the RS40... The JVC truck somehow got lost between Colorado and NY. I'd have bet Jason would have one by now.
post #96 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I must be snake bit because I've only had 1 trouble free Denon product so I don't buy their stuff anymore. But when I said you're a lucky bastard it was because you have the RS40... The JVC truck somehow got lost between Colorado and NY. I'd have bet Jason would have one by now.

I bought one piece of Denon gear long ago. It was an integrated amp with a MC phono pre-amp that had one noisy channel. Sounded like DC on a pot... really annoying. They couldn't fix it. Gave me my money back. Ridiculous. Even though it was long ago, never again! But, to their credit, they did make me whole. It's just the lame quality that got me.
post #97 of 9972
Its a good thing no VS models in that dream. What if there were, you looked up, and heard one say to the other, Damn. It's Sam.
post #98 of 9972
Sam. I may be wrong here but those mount legs do not look like Chief legs. More like Peerless. Kevin's pictures look like the Chief universals and they work with just about everything.
post #99 of 9972
Hi Damnsam, just to join the others in saying thanks for all your feedback, you're doing a great job!
post #100 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

I understand the test and why I would look at it (on my unit). What I don't understand is why you want to see photo's of other folks convergence.....doesn't this exhibit a unit to unit variation? Does his convergence have any bearing on what others will be?

Yes it most certainly does vary from unit to unit. However, as various owners report in about their convergence, we will begin to gain (or lose) confidence in whether JVC has been able to improve their tolerances with regards to convergence. This information helps people make an informed buying decisions especially when buying sight unseen. Remember, there is a difference between what someone may consider acceptable convergence and what is considered being "in spec"....
post #101 of 9972
Sam. Please check out my post 6858 in the long thread where I set out an explanation for the Chief mounts and universal legs etc.
post #102 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Yes it most certainly does vary from unit to unit. However, as various owners report in about their convergence, we will begin to gain (or lose) confidence in whether JVC has been able to improve their tolerances with regards to convergence. This information helps people make an informed buying decisions especially when buying sight unseen. Remember, there is a difference between what someone may consider acceptable convergence and what is considered being "in spec"....

I guess that would be valid with a large sample size but I don't see how looking at one or two helps though. Regardless, TMI is better than TLI.
post #103 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Sam. Please check out my post 6858 in the long thread where I set out an explanation for the Chief mounts and universal legs etc.

I did, and I replied to it with the following...


Quote:


Thanks Mark, but from what online pricing appears to be, anyone can order the newer RPMAU's (like KRichter's with the arms) for less than the price of the SLB-U or SLM-U. The question would be, can you confirm that the existing shipped stock of the RPMA-U (which comes with the 4 legs) will work with the new RS40/50/60?
post #104 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Unfortunately the projector was on for a few hours last night, can I still test for that later tonight? is is a repeatable cycle?

I just need to know Exactly what to look for in what test pattern? I posted all the test pattern screenshots fro the service menu, so just point me to the ones that will test convergence/divergence and uniformity and also let me know how to detect what you want me to see. Sorry as I mentioned before, I don't do these things often.

It is absolutely repeatable on mine. Switch on from cold, immediately check the convergence, whether you use the red/green/blue grid pattern, or a single pixel white grid, or even the double pixel one is better than nothing. Then wait 15 minutes, and check it again, and see if it has changed. So for example check the centre, and note any pixels that are off...is it the same amount of deviation 15 minutes later. In my case its mainly red that moves.

Perhaps my previous projectors did it too, but I surely never noticed it.

Thanks for comparing and taking the time. I appreciate it.
post #105 of 9972
Sam. I only included the MSRP for reference. If you need it, call us for the price.
post #106 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

It is absolutely repeatable on mine. Switch on from cold, immediately check the convergence, whether you use the red/green/blue grid pattern, or a single pixel white grid, or even the double pixel one is better than nothing. Then wait 15 minutes, and check it again, and see if it has changed. So for example check the centre, and note any pixels that are off...is it the same amount of deviation 15 minutes later. In my case its mainly red that moves.

Perhaps my previous projectors did it too, but I surely never noticed it.

Thanks for comparing and taking the time. I appreciate it.

Jon, sorry if this sounds dumb. But what exactly am I looking for when I am testing for convergence in all of the patterns you listed? I remember one thing with te red/green/blue crossline patterns that the blue was the thickest line. While the green and red were thinner.
post #107 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Jon, sorry if this sounds dumb. But what exactly am I looking for when I am testing for convergence in all of the patterns you listed? I remember one thing with te red/green/blue crossline patterns that the blue was the thickest line. While the green and red were thinner.

Unlike a direct view fixed pixel device (eg. a plasma screen), the RS40, and the last several generations of JVC projectors are 3 chip LCOS machines, and produce colour images by overlapping varying quantities of red, green and blue. However, in order to effectively do so, the individual R, G & B chips/panels need to overlap very well, across the entire screen.

When you look at a single pixel thick white grid, you are looking at the results of each individual panel generating its respective red, green, and blue grid which overlap on your screen to generate a white grid. If convergence is 'off' for one or more of the panels, you'll see this as 'fringing' on the single pixel white line. Practically speaking, its almost unheard of to have perfect alignment of the 3 panels across the entire screen, and you will almost certainly notice the horizontal and vertical white lines in the grid having an edge that is redder, or greener, or bluer than the line itself. The more 'out of whack' this 'fringing' is, the greater your convergence error.

Because of the projector's ability to shift each panel's output horizontally and vertically in single pixel increments, you shouldn't really be off by more than 0.5 pixel - at least in the centre of the projected image. The real problems arise when this divergence of up to 0.5 pixel at the centre, increases to more than that at the periphery.

Blue is tougher to see than red & green , and I wouldn't worry about blue appearing thicker (less focused?) than the other two colours. The real issue is how well all three overlap, and to what extent that changes as you move away from screen centre. If you want to see what really bad convergence looks like, feel free to shift the output of any one of the panels (red is easiest to see) within the service menu converge adjustment function, and you'll get a sense for what really bad (more than a pixel) misconvergence looks like.
post #108 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni01 View Post

Hi Damnsam, just to join the others in saying thanks for all your feedback, you're doing a great job!

Thanks Manni
post #109 of 9972
Thanks so much Sam for the great report. Your screen shots included only one with "skin tones," and that didn't appear to be very good. Could you comment on skin tones and possibly post some shots of that?

Again, many thanks.
post #110 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Sam. I may be wrong here but those mount legs do not look like Chief legs. More like Peerless. Kevin's pictures look like the Chief universals and they work with just about everything.

Mark, they are actually Chief legs as I had someone at Chief visually confirm, but he also confirmed that they are the much older legs (circa 2008) and that I will either need to buy the SLBU kit, or just buy a new RPMA-U complete kit with the SLMU bracket.
post #111 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampa View Post

Thanks so much Sam for the great report. Your screen shots included only one with "skin tones," and that didn't appear to be very good. Could you comment on skin tones and possibly post some shots of that?

Again, many thanks.

Please tell me which screenshot and I can tell you, but more than likely the pictures are NOT an honest reflection of what the projection is showing in person. I found that using the Retina display on the iPhone4 shows the closest image to what the screen is showing.
post #112 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenjabil View Post

Unlike a direct view fixed pixel device (eg. a plasma screen), the RS40, and the last several generations of JVC projectors are 3 chip LCOS machines, and produce colour images by overlapping varying quantities of red, green and blue. However, in order to effectively do so, the individual R, G & B chips/panels need to overlap very well, across the entire screen.

When you look at a single pixel thick white grid, you are looking at the results of each individual panel generating its respective red, green, and blue grid which overlap on your screen to generate a white grid. If convergence is 'off' for one or more of the panels, you'll see this as 'fringing' on the single pixel white line. Practically speaking, its almost unheard of to have perfect alignment of the 3 panels across the entire screen, and you will almost certainly notice the horizontal and vertical white lines in the grid having an edge that is redder, or greener, or bluer than the line itself. The more 'out of whack' this 'fringing' is, the greater your convergence error.

Because of the projector's ability to shift each panel's output horizontally and vertically in single pixel increments, you shouldn't really be off by more than 0.5 pixel - at least in the centre of the projected image. The real problems arise when this divergence of up to 0.5 pixel at the centre, increases to more than that at the periphery.

Blue is tougher to see than red & green , and I wouldn't worry about blue appearing thicker (less focused?) than the other two colours. The real issue is how well all three overlap, and to what extent that changes as you move away from screen centre. If you want to see what really bad convergence looks like, feel free to shift the output of any one of the panels (red is easiest to see) within the service menu converge adjustment function, and you'll get a sense for what really bad (more than a pixel) misconvergence looks like.

thanks Zenjabil,
I have some homework to go through tonight for sure, this is all a bit overwhelming for me. Thanks to you, LovingDVD, Geoff, JonStatt, and others who had contributed in their convergence and testing explanations.
post #113 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

Please tell me which screenshot and I can tell you, but more than likely the pictures are NOT an honest reflection of what the projection is showing in person. I found that using the Retina display on the iPhone4 shows the closest image to what the screen is showing.

Most of the faces had masks. This one had something underneath that said "Mysteries at the Museum."
post #114 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grampa View Post

Most of the faces had masks. This one had something underneath that said "Mysteries at the Museum."

That one was from a DirecTV HD channel and it was a Toyota commercial, I can tell you that the skintone on this particular picture looked WAY more real and natural in person (it looks too washed out using the screenshot), and with that being said, take most TV broadcast PQ screenshots with a grain of salt.

But here is a more accurate screenshot of skintones on DirecTV
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...7/IMG_1828.jpg



.
post #115 of 9972
Wow man awesome work!! gosh I can't wait for mine to come in!! come on AVS Christmas elfs !!! Daddy needs a new toy !!
post #116 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Well I guess I am going past my monthly bandwidth quote with the Free PhotoBucket account.

Can anyone suggest another free photo sharing website that may offer unlimited bandwidth, or should I just quit being a cheap-ass and buy the annual photobucket ulimited pro upgrade for $24?

EDIT: I am too darn cheap, yet even more lazy, so I just paid for a one month pro unlimited membership for $2.99, so let's all use the crap out of it and obliterate the unlimited bandwidth for the next 30 days.
post #117 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastiff34 View Post

Wow man awesome work!! gosh I can't wait for mine to come in!! come on AVS Christmas elfs !!! Daddy needs a new toy !!

thanks dude, hopefully my mount and AVR dillemas are resolved tonight.
post #118 of 9972
Gary from JVC UK confirmed to me that it is normal for the convergence to shift a bit based on temperature and that even having it upside down (which I do) can change its behaviour as well.

Before anyone asks, I am using a Unicol (UK) mount which is a custom mount with a special plate. They designed this mount before the projector was out and even got the cut-outs for the intake vents etc correct.

The trouble was the mount weighed several kilos itself making lifting the new heavier projector + mount up to the ceiling almost unbearable.
post #119 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

EDIT: I am too darn cheap, yet even more lazy, so I just paid for a one month pro unlimited membership for $2.99, so let's all use the crap out of it and obliterate the unlimited bandwidth for the next 30 days.

Can we all chip in $.05 each? Paypal?
post #120 of 9972
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Gary from JVC UK confirmed to me that it is normal for the convergence to shift a bit based on temperature and that even having it upside down (which I do) can change its behaviour as well.

Before anyone asks, I am using a Unicol (UK) mount which is a custom mount with a special plate. They designed this mount before the projector was out and even got the cut-outs for the intake vents etc correct.

The trouble was the mount weighed several kilos itself making lifting the new heavier projector + mount up to the ceiling almost unbearable.

Good to know Jon. The whole weight thing is what I dread, the new PJ is a monster, it's like a friggin conviction oven, yeah it's THAT big! Your non-AV friend will be shocked to see that they still make projectors that big, and even that "majestic" looking for such little money on the RS40 and RS50, this is why I said this PJ looks like a Million bucks!!! but anyhow the PJ is too darn big and much heavier than the RS20 or your typical Epson/Panny projectors, which is why I am willing to buy the new "lock/release" mount this way I can mount the ceiling plate and pipe plus the top portion of the mount, then simply click the universal bracket with the PJ into place, if I am not mistake on how this works.
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