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Official JVC RS40/X3 Owners Thread - Page 320

post #9571 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzz View Post

Hey guys
Is AVS still a good (Read Cheap) place to get the replacement bulbs for the RS40's??
and if so who is a good person to contact?

Thanks

Mike

Can anyone answer this question, even someone from AVS wink.gif
post #9572 of 9972
I could.
post #9573 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I could.

I guess I should have put Would instead of Could eek.gif
post #9574 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Forget JVC for a moment - lets talk lamps in general. They are like tires on a car - estimated life is only a general estimate. I have never gotten the stated life out of any lamp - including the 1st one on my SIM Lumis ( a pricey one at that ). They get too dim. So you get another one. If lamps cost you 25 cents to 50 cents an hour, it's still worth it, eh? Projectors are ( IMHO ) the Lamborghini's of the video display world. And if your tires on your Lamborghini wore out at 30K miles instead of the rated 50K miles, would you sell it and get a VW Jetta? No, you would get a new set of tires. cool.gif

I agree that lamp life estimates are just that...estimates. But no one can argue that the RS40's (and others from that model year) had SIGNIFICANT lamp issues that go beyond the normal variance. With a 3000 hour rating, I would only expect 1500-2000 useable hours....and I would be quite happy with that.

My AVS B Stock with 002 lamp failed at 450 hours (projector was 8 months old)....thats pretty bad and in line with what most people here have experienced with the 002 lamps. Fortunately, AVS is very good to their customers and got me a replacement 003 lamp very quickly with no issue. That lamp is only 150 hours old. Has it dimmed a bit, yep, but what I would consider normal. I am hesitant to measure as I'd just rather not know if I can't tell by watching! Problem is if the new one fails at under 500 hours, that would be two lamps with the same issue and if I can't get another free replacement, then I am about $400 into the cost of a new projector that has reliable lamp life. That's unacceptable would mean a new lamp every 8-12 months. If I can even get 1000-1500 usable hours, that's at least acceptable....still not great though.

I just hate the feeling that JVC offloaded these B stocks knowing full well the issues with the lamps and figured at worse they'd give out one free replacement and then tell you to buy a new PJ if you didn't like the lamp life. Just reeks of total contempt for the customer. Now if the 003's are really the fix, I'll be happy with my RS40 until 4k and/or LED/laser light sources are affordable and commonplace. I really don't feel anything else puts out the same PQ at this price and going back to an IRIS would suck now that I am so used to the native "miles deep" contrast and black level of the JVC.

The Lamborghini comparison is a bit unfair because there are cheaper projectors with better lamp life, and more expensive TV's with no lamps to blow. Not to mention that kind of car is not a stock item, such as a projector Plus projectors are become more and more common in the home ( not to mention YEARS of business use), where I doubt Lamborghini is increasing their sales much.

Bottom line, I don't think you can argue that The RS40's don't (hopefully we can say didn't) have an issue with their lamps dying way too early.
post #9575 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

I agree that lamp life estimates are just that...estimates. But no one can argue that the RS40's (and others from that model year) had SIGNIFICANT lamp issues that go beyond the normal variance. With a 3000 hour rating, I would only expect 1500-2000 useable hours....and I would be quite happy with that.

My AVS B Stock with 002 lamp failed at 450 hours (projector was 8 months old)....thats pretty bad and in line with what most people here have experienced with the 002 lamps. Fortunately, AVS is very good to their customers and got me a replacement 003 lamp very quickly with no issue. That lamp is only 150 hours old. Has it dimmed a bit, yep, but what I would consider normal. I am hesitant to measure as I'd just rather not know if I can't tell by watching! Problem is if the new one fails at under 500 hours, that would be two lamps with the same issue and if I can't get another free replacement, then I am about $400 into the cost of a new projector that has reliable lamp life. That's unacceptable would mean a new lamp every 8-12 months. If I can even get 1000-1500 usable hours, that's at least acceptable....still not great though.

I just hate the feeling that JVC offloaded these B stocks knowing full well the issues with the lamps and figured at worse they'd give out one free replacement and then tell you to buy a new PJ if you didn't like the lamp life. Just reeks of total contempt for the customer. Now if the 003's are really the fix, I'll be happy with my RS40 until 4k and/or LED/laser light sources are affordable and commonplace. I really don't feel anything else puts out the same PQ at this price and going back to an IRIS would suck now that I am so used to the native "miles deep" contrast and black level of the JVC.

The Lamborghini comparison is a bit unfair because there are cheaper projectors with better lamp life, and more expensive TV's with no lamps to blow. Not to mention that kind of car is not a stock item, such as a projector Plus projectors are become more and more common in the home ( not to mention YEARS of business use), where I doubt Lamborghini is increasing their sales much.

Bottom line, I don't think you can argue that The RS40's don't (hopefully we can say didn't) have an issue with their lamps dying way too early.

I'm with you on your skepticism but I don't think anyone with a 003 lamp has reported an issue.....as of yet. My first lamp dimmed and then crapped out around 500 hours and I got a new 003 lamp and I'm right at 500 hours and so far so good as it has only dimmed what would seem normal. Now, I hope I just didn't jinx myself.rolleyes.gif

Mike
post #9576 of 9972
Of course JVC sold them as referb. units knowing of the lamp issues. Anyone who bought one them them had to have known the supplied lamp would pop around 500 hours if it was a 002 series. I bought one knowing it would happen and even referred a friend who bought one after I told him there was nearly a 100% chance the lamp would pop around 500 hours. The ace in the hole is having bought them from AVS and their excellent customer service. His 002 lamp did blow and he's now approaching 1000 hours on the latest 003 lamp with no issues.

To me higher end projectors are like an exotic sports car. They are expensive to purchase and maintain. Can be finicky and not always totally without issue. JVC projectors are in a league all their own as far as picture quality. Epson projectors are like a Corvette. Sturdy and reliable. JVC are more like a Lamborghini as Craig says. Just comes with the territory.

I figure if after 1000 or so hours the lamp has dimmed enough to effect PQ then I'll buy a new lamp. The lamp issues are nothing compared to the six Barco 1209's I use to maintain and all the issues they had.
post #9577 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxfj View Post

Of course JVC sold them as referb. units knowing of the lamp issues. Anyone who bought one them them had to have known the supplied lamp would pop around 500 hours if it was a 002 series. I bought one knowing it would happen and even referred a friend who bought one after I told him there was nearly a 100% chance the lamp would pop around 500 hours. The ace in the hole is having bought them from AVS and their excellent customer service. His 002 lamp did blow and he's now approaching 1000 hours on the latest 003 lamp with no issues.

To me higher end projectors are like an exotic sports car. They are expensive to purchase and maintain. Can be finicky and not always totally without issue. JVC projectors are in a league all their own as far as picture quality. Epson projectors are like a Corvette. Sturdy and reliable. JVC are more like a Lamborghini as Craig says. Just comes with the territory.

I figure if after 1000 or so hours the lamp has dimmed enough to effect PQ then I'll buy a new lamp. The lamp issues are nothing compared to the six Barco 1209's I use to maintain and all the issues they had.

I still don't buy the high end argument. The basic priciples that make cheap projectors work are the same in high end models. A power supply, light source/lamp, panels, ect. That cheaper models can make their lamps last but higher end models can't....that just doesn't make sense.

I can buy that they can be more finicky in setup and calibration....because they have so much more that can be adjusted and sometimes the more advanced software can be buggy. But not the basic components that all projectors share.

And, BTW, I think JVC claimed the lamp issues was fixed when the refurbs were offered. I doubt AVS would sell a product they KNEW to have a serious lamp issue without notifying those buying. When I bought mine I asked and they said they were told by JVC it was fixed, but in case there was an issue they would stand by it. Turns out it was not fixed, and AVS made good on their promise, but I think they were under the impression that they were fixed.
post #9578 of 9972
Fact is the JVCs use newer bulb technology than cheap brands, it's part of how they produce their excellent images. If you've ever accidentally bought a cheap Chinese replacement bulb and seen your image take on a blue cast and have the black level wash out, you know tech makes a difference. Likewise my back up projector is a cheap Epson, it weights maybe 1/3rd that of the JVC.

If its one thing I've learned in the little amount of time I've been alive, it's that 9 times out of 10, you get what you pay for. One day projectors that perform on par with the JVCs in the $900-$1500 range, but then there will be something even better in the JVCs current price range.
post #9579 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Fact is the JVCs use newer bulb technology than cheap brands, it's part of how they produce their excellent images. If you've ever accidentally bought a cheap Chinese replacement bulb and seen your image take on a blue cast and have the black level wash out, you know tech makes a difference. Likewise my back up projector is a cheap Epson, it weights maybe 1/3rd that of the JVC.

If its one thing I've learned in the little amount of time I've been alive, it's that 9 times out of 10, you get what you pay for. One day projectors that perform on par with the JVCs in the $900-$1500 range, but then there will be something even better in the JVCs current price range.


I don't think the mid to high end epson, panasonic, or sony models are that far off from JVC in overall performance and overall they have less lamp issues, higher rated lamp life, and cheaper bulbs. Yes, I know if you go into any of those owner forums, you will find the exceptions.

Even entry models from those brands are generally pretty good....but more importantly they are really using the same type of UHP lamp technology that just about projectors use.

I agree you get what you pay for, but the RS40 lamp is not doing anything special that an epson 8350 lamp, or even a Sony hw90es is doing. So there are two projectors...one below the RS40, the other a competitor to the newer JVC models. I doubt anyone serious about their projector would be happy with a cheap knock off lamp, so lets disregard that as an option.
post #9580 of 9972
Well I certainly I won't defend the RS40 bulbs, I got burned on that as well. However I owned the RS1 and RS2 before it, and their bulbs lasted me nearly 3,000 hours each(should have changed em waaay earlier, but they still worked and I'm cheap lol). As you say there are exceptions, I got my back up Epson 8100 for a song from a guy on the forums, it has a 10,000:1 dynamic contrast, I figured good enough for TV and video games, and it was. However it too had bulb issues, they wouldn't last more than 1100-1300 hours, and were rated for 3000 lol, I couldn't believe it. And the performance was nowhere near the JVC, we're talking Dynex LCD quality vs Pioneer plasma.

Point being, as I understand it, JVC was trying something new with the bulb, and obviously it wasn't ready for prime time. I've since moved on to the RS46, whose bulbs are rated for 4,000 hours in normal mode, and it comes with the best bulb warranty in the industry(thanks to the RS40 debacle). I've since ditched the Epson because the performance gap was too painful. The RS40 generation was an exception to the rule, the JVCs I had before were the epitome of reliability. And there is nothing wrong with cheaper projectors, just don't fool yourself tnto thinking your getting Porsche performance at VW prices. IMO you'd be wiser getting a used RS2 over any other lower end projector with a dynamic iris, they can be had for around $1500 these days. Coming from CRTs where black level is everything, there is nothing with a dynamic iris that can compete with the JVCs.
post #9581 of 9972
Anyone in this forum own Sony projectors as well? I would expect Sony to be reliable, perhaps even Panasonic, you know, THE BIG GUYS. I'm just curious. I tend to agree that the PQ and blacks of the JVC are phenomenal.
post #9582 of 9972
Really JVC made a bad decision with there lamp supplier. To me there biggest mistake was keeping them for a second year. I am on my version 3 Lamp and around 250 hours. The bulb to me looks to dim. I haven't taken a reading but I was watching a animated movie with my daughter and you could barley make out what is going on in the scene.
post #9583 of 9972
the issue with the lamps was likely related to air-flow. I've compared the old lamps and the new style (46/56, etc). There are obvious size differences in the output of the fan that is providing air. I have since verified that the RS46 fan is definitely larger than the 40/50/45/55, etc.

JVC_LAMP5.jpg

JVC_LAMP4.jpg

I did an experiment with my Rev 2 lamp (non-flapper) and ran the system on "high Altitude' since it was new. This lamp has been performing very well so far. The increased airflow is likely helping here. Perhaps the metal flap was introduced to break up turbulence in the air-stream.

I don't recall anyone complaining about a Rev 3 lamp with early dimming. The irony of running the RS55 in high altitude mode is that it's still a bit quieter than the current RS46/RS4810. In high lamp, those new style fans are getting a workout.
post #9584 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Well I certainly I won't defend the RS40 bulbs, I got burned on that as well. However I owned the RS1 and RS2 before it, and their bulbs lasted me nearly 3,000 hours each(should have changed em waaay earlier, but they still worked and I'm cheap lol). As you say there are exceptions, I got my back up Epson 8100 for a song from a guy on the forums, it has a 10,000:1 dynamic contrast, I figured good enough for TV and video games, and it was. However it too had bulb issues, they wouldn't last more than 1100-1300 hours, and were rated for 3000 lol, I couldn't believe it. And the performance was nowhere near the JVC, we're talking Dynex LCD quality vs Pioneer plasma.

Point being, as I understand it, JVC was trying something new with the bulb, and obviously it wasn't ready for prime time. I've since moved on to the RS46, whose bulbs are rated for 4,000 hours in normal mode, and it comes with the best bulb warranty in the industry(thanks to the RS40 debacle). I've since ditched the Epson because the performance gap was too painful. The RS40 generation was an exception to the rule, the JVCs I had before were the epitome of reliability. And there is nothing wrong with cheaper projectors, just don't fool yourself tnto thinking your getting Porsche performance at VW prices. IMO you'd be wiser getting a used RS2 over any other lower end projector with a dynamic iris, they can be had for around $1500 these days. Coming from CRTs where black level is everything, there is nothing with a dynamic iris that can compete with the JVCs.


Funny coincidence,

I have an 8100 as well. It was my first PJ and I upgraded to the RS40 last year. I had about 1500 hours on it, no lamp issues. Agreed....There is NO comparison between the two in terms of PQ. I keep it as a spare, but I could never go back to that level of performance nor would I want a dynamic IRIS again...which really limits choices!

I am hoping the RS 46's might be available for B stock purchase at some point after the following year model comes out. I'd get one if the price is right. If I had to guess about what JVC was trying to do is that they were trying to drive the "newer" RS40 lamps too hard, they have a power supply or cooling problem, or the change in lamp manufacture caused issues....or some combination. The way my 002 lamp looked when it dimmed severely, he back mirror part was meling and cracking, which seems to me to be a heat issue. Seems they changed things in the RS46, which is why I would like to move to that model when I can afford to.
post #9585 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

the issue with the lamps was likely related to air-flow. I've compared the old lamps and the new style (46/56, etc). There are obvious size differences in the output of the fan that is providing air. I have since verified that the RS46 fan is definitely larger than the 40/50/45/55, etc.



I did an experiment with my Rev 2 lamp (non-flapper) and ran the system on "high Altitude' since it was new. This lamp has been performing very well so far. The increased airflow is likely helping here. Perhaps the metal flap was introduced to break up turbulence in the air-stream.

I don't recall anyone complaining about a Rev 3 lamp with early dimming. The irony of running the RS55 in high altitude mode is that it's still a bit quieter than the current RS46/RS4810. In high lamp, those new style fans are getting a workout.


This is very interesting. Could be that the airflow is insufficient due to the smaller outlet or could be that the smaller outlet would direct air at a higher velocity. Can't tell without being able to run the PJ without the lamp...which you can't. But very good info! Thanks for taking the pictures.
post #9586 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

This is very interesting. Could be that the airflow is insufficient due to the smaller outlet or could be that the smaller outlet would direct air at a higher velocity. Can't tell without being able to run the PJ without the lamp...which you can't. But very good info! Thanks for taking the pictures.

The inlet on the new lamp housing is identical. The new lamp does not have the metal flap as seen on the Rev 3 lamp for the older models.

based on my positive experience running in HA mode and the larger fan + outlet opening on the new models, I believe much of the issue had to do with airflow.

The new models are surprisingly loud in 'High Lamp' mode, more so than the older RS55 with HA / High Lamp. I'm sure this is helping in addition to any lamp revisions.

** Notice the metal 'mesh' opening is larger on the new lamps (new lamp is on the right) which is letting in more air.

JVC_LAMP.jpg
post #9587 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The inlet on the new lamp housing is identical. The new lamp does not have the metal flap as seen on the Rev 3 lamp for the older models.

based on my positive experience running in HA mode and the larger fan + outlet opening on the new models, I believe much of the issue had to do with airflow.

The new models are surprisingly loud in 'High Lamp' mode, more so than the older RS55 with HA / High Lamp. I'm sure this is helping in addition to any lamp revisions.

** Notice the metal 'mesh' opening is larger on the new lamps (new lamp is on the right) which is letting in more air.

More good info. I just hate how loud HA mode is even on the RS40, since it sits right above my head! If I am not mistaken, it's the same volume/fan noise you would get from the 3D high lamp mode?
Edited by curlyjive - 3/5/13 at 12:44pm
post #9588 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent View Post

Wow. This is discouraging. Doesn't the manual say something like 2000 or 3000 hours? Well mine's got 800 and still going strong, but I thought the bulbs were improved now.

My second lamp blew really early (200-300 hours or so) so by the time I got this one we were still in the stages of "are the lamps really having problems?" I just pulled the lamp out so I can give the numbers and letters (or whatever it was we were doing in the past) to see which series or how old this lamp was. Naturally, I cant give exact hours of this one since I don't have a replacement lamp yet.


As far as disappointing, this was my first projector so I only had some basic expectations - this isn't to say I don't think the lamp issue wasn't real because it definitely is and a pain in the ass - the quality of the projector is quite excellent for what I believe its designed to do, however, we use(d) ours as a "TV" but this go round, as I said, I started just leaving it on if we were headed out and I knew we'd be back in an hour or so. I have no clue if this extended the life but I don't consider these lamps inexpensive and I only got one replacement lamp from JVC even though my replacement blew so early and even getting that took ~6 weeks.


EDIT: Did a quick look before bolting out the door. Pretty sure the bulb that gave me "great" life was a 2 series
Edited by NavNucST3 - 3/6/13 at 11:23am
post #9589 of 9972
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingzz

Hey guys
Is AVS still a good (Read Cheap) place to get the replacement bulbs for the RS40's??
and if so who is a good person to contact?

Thanks

Mike

Can anyone answer this question, even someone from AVS

All it takes is a phone call to Mike or myself - " operators are standing by to take your call " ! smile.gif
post #9590 of 9972

Love JVC, proud owner of RS2 and RS35U just wish they would come out with an LED or Laser light source!

post #9591 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Love JVC, proud owner of RS2 and RS35U just wish they would come out with an LED or Laser light source!

They are working on a laser source.
post #9592 of 9972
Lots of companies are working on laser light sources. But there are problems and obstacles which still need to be overcome and solutions just don't look imminent. Costs are a big impediment as well as specle and safety. Lasers of higher power are subject to heavy regulation to protect the user. Obviously, there have been good demonstrations of prototypes and simulation machines. But for the consumer nothg yet. Redseems to be the closest right now but they have cost prioblems and are talking about releasing commercil machines first which don't have the restraints of consumer machines price wise. Laser siources are expensive.

My gut there won't be a consumer machine this year from anybody.
post #9593 of 9972

I saw a video, but it was for the commercial market, when for the HT? I don't want to buy an other one with a lamp!

post #9594 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Forget JVC for a moment - lets talk lamps in general. They are like tires on a car - estimated life is only a general estimate. I have never gotten the stated life out of any lamp - including the 1st one on my SIM Lumis ( a pricey one at that ). They get too dim. So you get another one. If lamps cost you 25 cents to 50 cents an hour, it's still worth it, eh? Projectors are ( IMHO ) the Lamborghini's of the video display world. And if your tires on your Lamborghini wore out at 30K miles instead of the rated 50K miles, would you sell it and get a VW Jetta? No, you would get a new set of tires. cool.gif

Not an analogy I would have made.

Mine goes more like:

I bought a lower up-market car, say an Infiniti M-37 (50-60k as opposed to 250k Lambo) whose transmission was specified to last 70k miles. The transmission began slipping after a few thousand miles and then failed catastrophically at 17k miles (25% of speced lifetime). If the problem was with tires, I could have bought another brand at Firestone down around the corner at a cost of 2% of my "investment"...but the problem was with the drive train that is intrinsic to the design of the car I just spent $50k on and can only be replaced by the same transmission from the OEM.

Because there were many customers who were experiencing the same thing, Infiniti offered to replace the transmissions when they failed. They made some tweaks in an attempt to fix the root cause of the defective design, but the revised design also failed prematurely. Then, despite the fact that the advertised lifetime of the transmission was 70k miles, by the time I was on my 3rd transmission and the new models came out, Infiniti told me they were going to stop replacing my transmission for free....even though I only had 40k miles on the car that I had planned to drive for 100k miles when I bought it.

I wanted to just sell the car and buy something more reliable, but the resale value of it had tanked because of the notoriety of the transmission problem.

Now who thinks for a nanosecond this would have flied in the automotive industry?

We have Lemon Laws for situations like this in that industry.

Look...the lifetime and failure mechanisms of tires and bulbs are not black magic. They are known parameters that are validated through analysis and testing. Is there some variance around the mean value? Of course....but it's not 25% of the mean and it's not all on the low side. These lamps are performing at a fraction of their specified value because the design is defective. No customer or retailer should ever attempt to rationalize the poor quality.
post #9595 of 9972
My wife bought me the original Star Trek series 1-2-3 on blu-ray for my birthday in January. I've been watching them on and off over the past couple of months (still the best show on TV). Anyway, being in 4:3 format I can see the black of space next to the empty sides on my 16:9 screen.

The outer space black is blacker than the sides. So it occurs to me, that perhaps JVC is showing black as a color rather than the absence of light as many displays try to do. I don't know if that makes sense from a scientific point of view, but that's the thought that occurred to me. I wonder if that's how JVC does it.
post #9596 of 9972
Have you calibrated your projector? If there's a substantial difference, then your black level (brightness) is set too high.
post #9597 of 9972
Thanks. There is not a substantial difference. My projector has not been calibrated but setup with Disney WOW. I don't think this pj requires calibration.
post #9598 of 9972
Using WOW or S&M will get you about 80% of the way there, but every display needs some type of calibration (whether your eyes will be able to notice or not, that I can't tell you). In my case, the RS40 was very good out of the box, but once it was calibrated to D65 the image was vastly improved.
post #9599 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crescent View Post

Thanks. There is not a substantial difference. My projector has not been calibrated but setup with Disney WOW. I don't think this pj requires calibration.

Any projector, including this one, "requires" calibration if you want to get the best picture it can deliver. I used to feel as you do, that a good calibration is just icing on the cake. But then I got a Lumagen/C6/CalMAN setup to do automated 125 pt color cube and 21 step gamma calibrations and the results are just stunning on my RS20! So any calibration you can do, especially gamma, is well worth it. Gamma is almost more important than color, it's the easiest to do and any projector will benefit from a good consistent gamma curve.
post #9600 of 9972
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

Any projector, including this one, "requires" calibration if you want to get the best picture it can deliver. I used to feel as you do, that a good calibration is just icing on the cake. But then I got a Lumagen/C6/CalMAN setup to do automated 125 pt color cube and 21 step gamma calibrations and the results are just stunning on my RS20! So any calibration you can do, especially gamma, is well worth it. Gamma is almost more important than color, it's the easiest to do and any projector will benefit from a good consistent gamma curve.

Well said...a proper gamma really brings out the shadow detail and depth.
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