Would you consider CRT technology superior to LCD or Plasma? - Page 8

CRT Technology is clearly superior to LCD/LED and equal to Plasma.....
...if you like "textures" go Plasma if you want motion perfection go CRT

A good CRT is hard to beat for black levels and on/off contrast, but not sure I completely concur on the motion thing. I've never noticed any CRT-like phosphor lag on a plasma display. And geometry will almost never be an issue on a flat panel. Gamers may have different experiences though on the motion thing. (I've heard about green/yellow after-images on some panels, for example).

One thing I like about the controls on some CRTs is that both widescreen and fullscreen content can be customized to display (and over/underscan) however you want.

On my TV, 16x9 widescreen content is set as close to 0% overscan ("open matte") on the sides as possible, and I use the matting/blanking controls in the SM to crop about 5% off the top and bottom of the image, so all 1.78 to 1.85AR content displays essentially "letterboxed" at ~2:1 ratio.

The TV is reconfigured for 4:3 content by changing one setting in the SM (2170D-1/APSW). This expands the image vertically so about 10% is cropped off top and bottom. (Since I run everything at 1080i on my TV, I can't use the regular aspect ratio controls in the User Menus to make this adjustment... even if I wanted to.)

Not really suggestin others try the above, cuz it's sort of a goofy arrangement. But it works well for me, and gives an idea of the level of control that's possible.

Indeed it is my friend! (Looks better also)

Produces the BEST picture and it always has

I have 2 other CRT monitors besides my TV...


I am very grateful to have BETTER STUFF

How do you guys think plasma's stack up against CRT's in the motion handeling department? for gaming it's a lot more obvious than just watching movies...I'm so iffy about my current LG Lk450 1080p LCD.....I mean i love the bright image and white whites and color management control options....But the motion handeling and black levels just don't cut it....It drives me nuts half the time.

I was happier with my 32" CRT SDTV for crying out loud. With that i had fantastic black levels(and not a dark shade of freaking grey) perfect motion handeling and ZERO input lag.

I don't know what to do at this point. for film, i'd definitly go for a 42"-50" Plasma no doubt about it. But for gaming it's much much more trickier....

I'm not a gamer, but I believe some plasma (and LCD?) displays offer special game modes to bypass most of the custom color processing & keep motion lag to a minimum. IMO plasma has better motion quality than LCD, and better than some CRTs. YMMV though.

Some LEDs with local dimming might beat both LCD and plasma on black levels. Not sure about the motion quality on LED though.

One obvious downside to plasma for gamers is the greater likelihood of burn-in (and also image retention), especially on heads-up displays.

There may be some ways of improving the black levels on your current LCD TV as well. I'd be glad to offer a couple suggestions along those lines if you're interested.

Extensive thread on this in the Game forum...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558125

So, the thread suggests that how each technology has its own pros and cons and it all goes the same way for CRTs, LCD/LEDs and Plasmas as well. As the time passes some pros of the latest generation technology do take over the pros and cons of the older ones or you can say the cons of the previous generation technology do not play a significant role and it makes it easier to switch over to the next generation and here the word obsolete comes into play.

I'm still waiting for my panacea of flat panel tech to come along. In the mean time, I just bought a new in box Sony G520 21" monitor for $75, this should buy me a few more years after my FW900 finally gives up. Hopefully not soon, because I still love her very much.

CRT technology was clearly superior to LCD or plasma. The only problem is that to have a perfect CRT tube.. it required a great deal of quality in it's construction. It needs perfect geometry and a perfect vacuum. Unfortunately, no one has high specs of construction in CRT anymore ( no one makes em anymore lol but even in the 2000's quality was incredibly low)
A CRT monitor capable of 1536p and 720p @ 120hz like mine was sold over 10k$... the time spent into making it perfect geometrically and to have a perfect convergence is no doubt a factor.. without even considering the weight (220lbs for my XP37 Xtra).

In all domains, CRT is superior to LCD and plasma. The real advantage lies still in the multisync capabilities of CRT monitors. No need for Digital to digital conversions or digital to analog conversions (Which both have loss). A analog CRT monitor is still the best kind of TV all-around. A perfect HD picture and a perfect SD picture. Perfect blacks, no lag in response time and perfect color reproduction.

It'll take a multisync technology for me to change TV. Plug a Wii in 480p on a CRT and you'd be amazed at how much definition the WII really has. And lets not even talk about upconversion.... scaling has loss whatever u do. Multisync has no loss.

Of course if u want a large screen don't go to CRT.. the weight will kill u hahaha. But all things aside.. a 36" viewable is good enough for most homes.

LCD or plasma is a cheap replacement!!!! (Its utter garbage and its sad so many people are satisfied with this trash)

Give LCD or plasma 60+ years and they should catch up to CRT! The FP tech is getting better but even with CRT most people don't care about quality,there was plenty of garbage crt's produced as well.

I love my two CRT rear proj. tv's and my 25" direct view, but it is going to happen that they will be gone one day and I will have to "upgrade" to a Flat Panel.

I know everyone in this forum has a CRT, so there's obviously a lot of allegiance to the tech that you own. Putting gaming aside, for movies and television, a high quality plasma screen is worlds better than the best CRTs ever made.

There's simply no substitute for size. When watching a movie, screen size is critical to having an immersive experience. A 50"+ CRT would be a 2000 lb joke requiring like 5' of space behind it, so it would never exist. A 50" plasma can be hung on the wall, and the best of them have excellent black levels and color rendition.

Multi-sync is awesome, no doubt about it, but has much less relevance in a modern setup where most sources (Wii excluded) output 1080P, 1080i, or 720P. 720P -> 1080P conversion works just fine. True, SDTV looks like crap on a big plasma, but almost everything is available in HD now anyway.

The fact that you can get some of the best CRTs ever made for $100 is great, but it's silly to think this is actually as good as a quality plasma. Properly configured, it's not even close. I used to own a 30XS955, really and truly loved it, but I could never go back to it from my Kuro. It would feel like watching a movie on an iPhone.

YES I AM!!!!

Better stuff made..... Better quality,better FOOD,etc..........

THE PAST WAS MUCH BETTER IN MANY WAYS!!

Why don't light guns work on the HD CRTs?

Lightguns don't work with HD CRTs due to upscaling. Take Duckhunt on NES as an example. The output from the NES is 240p the HD CRT takes this and makes it 1080i when displayed. On an SD CRT you'll get 240p at the screen as intended.

I thought these HD CRTs were multisync, so they displayed everything at their native resolution. I guess this isn't the case then?

Nope.. they aren't. They will upconvery every signal to 1080i. Pretty much no CRT HDTV is multisync... mostly high end monitors and SOME Crt projections were multisync. Also, some were somewhat multisync.. switching from 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i.

There are a few reasons that HD CRTs might not function with light guns.

If it supports 1080i, in the manner that many 4.3 ratio screens do, then it uses a 540 line interlace, and this extends to the way that it draws input fed from lower resolution sources (720p, 480p, 480i).

Some HD CRTs just do not function with non-interlaced broadcasts, what some people call "240p". They want to rescan the image as 480i, and this does things to the image that the game doesn't understand.

Also, and somewhat related to the above points, many HD CRTs perform some processing before the image is handed off to be drawn. Older CRTs do nothing to the broadcast other than a straight one to one draw, directly to the screen. This is the kind of stuff that completely stops light guns in their tracks. The game has to be programmed to read the kind of resolution within a pixel tolerance of what it is picking up.

Yes well i think HD looks like crap NO MATTER WHAT ITS ON!! (I consider HD to be a waste of bandwidth and un-needed)

I have always liked SD and i dont care for anything else (If i can get content in ANALOGUE (On my VHS tapes) its even better as the sound,etc IS EVEN BETTER )

A very interesting proposition. I agree that HD is overused, and for many years I resisted high-definition video. For example, who can really tell the difference between 1080p and 720p and 480i on a 19" TV? Computer monitor, absolutely, but HD on such a small TV is wasteful and ridiculous in my opinion. Even many times HDTV is wasteful on bigger displays.

Now ever since I got my first CRT projector (a NEC XG750) about 6 months ago and have been projecting a 107" diagonal image, I've been thinking a bit differently for very large displays. Of course by that time, each standard-definition scan line (on NTSC) is about 1/8" wide (!). Still, for standard-definition stuff, I'll take the visible scan lines over the blockiness and jaggedness caused by upscaling and deinterlacing on a digital projector.

And yes, people never seem to give the audio quality of VHS enough credit. It was very good for its time, nearly CD quality. Maybe they only had experiences with cheap monaural VCRs or connected it with RG-59 coax to their TV with weak little wimpy speakers, and assumed the audio quality couldn't get better.

Now if we had an analog HDTV system based on RGBHV, then I would be more accepting. The quality would be much better but the bandwidth needed would be ENORMOUS!

^ Agreed Us with RGB HV connectors on our TV's would be pleased
... but you're right.. 1080i requires basically no bandwith compared to a pure 1600x1200 Analog RGB HV signal.

1080i(1440x1080 interlaced) requires 34-36 khz horizontal while 1080p requires around 67.5khz and 1600x1200 requires 75khz

I also admit HD is a bit overused. On a 32" TV CRT (lets say a KV-32FS120) a pure component analog signal looks better than most TV's in HD while having the same video source.
HD Signals are much more important in bigger screen sizes but in smaller tv's, a pure analog signal in 480p more than enough.

Like P719C1 said... id love to have a pure analog RGBHV HDTV system for cable. And not only in stupid wide screen formats, also 480p (and 1200p ) for 4:3 TVs, and 1080p and 720p for 16:9 TV's.
Man id love to have a HD 4:3 format once in a while... stupid blu-rays in their super widescreen format...

Here is more proof that CRTs are still superior to flat panels despite what some may say. Keep in mind the date when this was recorded (November 8, 2011) and the speaker (Jeffrey Katzenberg).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYzEn...9xu0Q_5Qa__V70

Fast forward to 21:36 and listen.

Lets get real here.....CRT are inferior to LCD's/LED's in a few ways. Well, first for all LED/LCD produces an incredibly bright picture, 'Bright' and pure whites, not to mention a crisper/cleaner picture overall
in comparison to both CRT and Plasma since they're both inherent to video noise.

But I absolutely LOVE CRT for it's amazing motion handeling. It's bliss....Even plasma can't match it. LCD/LED motion handeling drives me nuts when watching film and for certain types of videogame genre's....Plasma's are a lot better in this regard, but they come with a nasty dithering effect which is clearly evident in videogames, plus again the motion isn't as good as CRT...There's still a bit of motion detail blurring goin on where as 'CRT' RETAINS every single detail when in motion making it flawless for videogames. Gaming on a plasma looks 'dull', darker, a bit flatter, not as crisp or as colorful(depending) in comparison.


LCD wins hands down in delivering an amazing bright picture + Pure Whites and a cleaner/crisper image for videogames AND they boast a wider color gamut which gives some incredibly pop to colorful videogames. Yet the motion doesn't cut it, there could be possible clouding, back light bleeding and weaker contrast.

Plasma is almost like a flat panel CRT, except the motion is weaker which also comes with that nasty dithering effect. Possible green phosper trailing when gaming and image retention(which goes away, no biggy) are the negatives. other than that they're thee BEST for watching movies if you can get past some slightly weaker motion handeling when stacked up to CRT.

CRT's are basically dead....PERFECT motion aside, any great plasma has cought up in the black level department and colors are basicallly the same depending. CRT's might also have geomertry problems too....

OVERALL the perfect TV would be to have the brightness levels, Pure whites, color gamut and clean/crispness of an LCD fused with CRT motion handeling and CRT or plasma black levels/contrast ratio's.

The answer? OLED. lol

I dont think i could DISAGREE MORE with the above reply

Explain why? :P

Anyways, I've given up on both LCD & LED....The motion handeling completely butchers many videogame genre's First and 3rd person being the main two. Sidescrollers and platformers fair a lot better I'll admit....

I'm going plasma or possibly CRT for now, until affordable large sized OLED's hit the scene! $10,000 for a 55" Samsung Super OLED. eek!

Simple, first of all, LCD/Led, while being a nice technology for weight and all.. is very prone to quality...

Of course a poor RCA 27" from 2003 can't compare to a LCD in terms of brightness and definition.
On the contrary, a perfectly aligned CRT monitor or high-end HDCRT (i.e. XBR970 etc) has a MUCH brighter white than any LCD/LED. I have many CRT's with perfect geometry and perfect focus up to every corner. Have you ever had a CRT where you had to put sunglasses on sometimes cause the white is too strong? All crt's i have can blind you lol if u dont open a light somewhere. Scrap the 10000:1 contrast ratios of LCD/LED... a perfect CRT in perfect shape has a PERFECT black, and a blinding white.. that means contrast ratio isnt even important for CRT's. As for precision, i have yet to see ANY LCD capable of being completely focused and without any digital noise or jitter in all resolutions from 640x480 to 2048x1536 and without losing precision. LCD/Led cannot compare to CRT's multisyncing capabilities. Being able to always display the original content perfectly is what makes CRT the best tech still. I dont see how OLED will be able to do that. It will probably have stupid fixed pixel panels with china made video cards attached to it which produce digital noise and jitter at every resolution except its native resolution.

As far as crisper, cleaner goes... ever compared a XP37 Xtra to LCD/LED in 480p on a WII? I can tell you which one wins lol.
There is no comparison to be made between standard SD CRT'S (even HDCRT's are almost always horrible) and LCD/LED.. but Multisync CRT's are still the best tech around hands down.
Lets not even talk about color gamut... LCD's have horrible color reproduction unless you have more than 3 colors of LEDs... We're talking about LCD being a filter here... Led's are limited to one frequency of color output(imagine how many colors of leds you need to get the whole spectrum of visible light), while CRT's have technically all the color spectrum. Mix your paint together and you will always have brown. Add 3 red/green/blue lights together and you will get white. LCD is a filter while CRT is a light emitting technology.

CRT Monitor:
Advantages : Perfect to near perfect geometry
Perfect color reproduction
High quality CRT's and circuits that dont break even after 10-15 years
Smaller pitch and capable of resolutions far greater than LCD/LED and plasma + the ability to display perfect non-HD resolutions in their original form without any digital conversion and loss.
If u have good cables, there shouldnt be any noise!

Disadvantage : Heavy, blinding in the dark and hard to find!

LCD/LED
Advantage : If u have a perfect signal(i.e Blu-Ray) you should get a perfect picture (this aint always true lol, cause video card quality affects this so much its crazy)
Light-weight
Cheap these days
Good color reproduction
Good whites
Disadvantages:

Horrible blacks except a few well made models
Horrible motion blur to people who can see it or are used to CRT
Prone to lots of digital jitter and noise if u are unlucky and have a low quality video card or have low quality video sources
Limited to their native resolution for perfect sharpness... In any other resolution or with any other source of signal than 720p or 1080p the picture quality is even lower than CRT (even tv's from the 70s look better lol)

this was my long description of advantages and disadvantages and why CRT is better. Of course, not ALL CRT's are better than LED/LCD. A high-end LCD/LED can compare to a high-end CRT, but for any gamer or someone who demands perfection, CRT would be the better choice hands down.

OLED is OVERRATED. OLED still doesn't have viewing angles as good as a CRT and OLED's color range still doesn't match a CRT. This is why Sony is investing in a slightly different tech (CLED). Additionally, keep in mind the tech heads at Dreamworks are pissed off that they stopped making CRTs.

oled ftw

OLED is nice, but until they can get blue to last as long as red and green, I won't buy. I wonder if the Sony Crystal LED has issues with blue not lasting very long.