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Fox Blu-ray Discs - Go Bad? - Page 3

post #61 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy7 View Post

What new law are you talking about?

Last year the movie studios (Disney, etc.) got a law passed that stated that all blu ray players manufactured after 12-31-10 could not pass high def signals through component outputs. I guess that are creating discs that follow that same law. According to the studios, this would greatly reduce piracy because HDMI requires HDCP and component outputs don't. I have only had this experience with A Walk in the Clouds (the only 2011 release I own so far) ,but I intend to rent a blu ray released after 12-31-10 to see if it will play in my Pioneer 320. I predict that it won't. If it doesn't then I am out of the blu ray market until I get a new tv and receiver.
post #62 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightWatcher View Post

Start ripping all of your Blu-rays and watch everything with an HD media streamer or XBMC.

I can't rip them if I don't have anything to play them in. If you mean my pre-2011 blu rays, they play just fine. This law only applies to post 2010 products. It doesn't require that the discs follow the same policy, but since the movie studios pushed the law, I think they are producing blu rays (2011) that won't allow high def signals to be sent through component video outputs. Luckily I have several blu rays already and I probably spend too much time watching them anyway.
post #63 of 119
Just to be clear...this is not a "law". There is no such legal statutory requirement governing these things.

This involves policy agreement within the Blu-ray industry.

There are many aspects to the policy (too involved to detail here but they can be googled). Part of the policy does require that new models of BD players now being introduced can't output an HD signal over component. Existing models of BD players may still be produced that allow HD over component. There's still a couple of years before all BD players must use HDMI for HD output.

More importantly though, is the possible use of the Image Constraint Token. The use of the ICT to limit output is up to individual studios to use on their titles as they see fit. If used, it's existence is supposed to be made clear to the buying public. I'm not aware that there are ANY Blu-rays confirmed to use the ICT.
post #64 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

Just to be clear...this is not a "law". There is no such legal statutory requirement governing these things.

This involves policy agreement within the Blu-ray industry.

There are many aspects to the policy (too involved to detail here but they can be googled). Part of the policy does require that new models of BD players now being introduced can't output an HD signal over component. Existing models of BD players may still be produced that allow HD over component. There's still a couple of years before all BD players must use HDMI for HD output.

More importantly though, is the possible use of the Image Constraint Token. The use of the ICT to limit output is up to individual studios to use on their titles as they see fit. If used, it's existence is supposed to be made clear to the buying public. I'm not aware that there are ANY Blu-rays confirmed to use the ICT.

The email I received last year from (senior moment), I can't remember whom, stated that there was a bill coming from a Congressional Committee which if approved by Congress would make a series of changes in several areas. One was blu ray no longer supporting high def component. I know movie studios are paranoid about pirating and they only agreed to support high def discs if it included anti-pirating protection. Hence HDCP. They almost balked at blu ray and HD-DVD over component output, however they relented when the electronics industry assured them there would be a time limit on component support and they were confident that the public would upgrade to HDMI equipment.
I hope you are right about ICT because I have two more titles released in 2011 that I ordered from Amazon and I would hate to discover that they won't work in my player. If they don't I would suggest that ICT has been adopted without any warning.
post #65 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

Just to be clear...this is not a "law". There is no such legal statutory requirement governing these things.

This involves policy agreement within the Blu-ray industry.

There are many aspects to the policy (too involved to detail here but they can be googled). Part of the policy does require that new models of BD players now being introduced can't output an HD signal over component. Existing models of BD players may still be produced that allow HD over component. There's still a couple of years before all BD players must use HDMI for HD output.

More importantly though, is the possible use of the Image Constraint Token. The use of the ICT to limit output is up to individual studios to use on their titles as they see fit. If used, it's existence is supposed to be made clear to the buying public. I'm not aware that there are ANY Blu-rays confirmed to use the ICT.

I should NEVER have listened to you. I called Amazon (yesterday) and told them I had a defective disc and they replaced it in one day. I actually just got the disc (A Walk in the Clouds) and it WON'T play in my Pioneer 320 either. So apparently you didn't get the memo from 20th Century Fox that they would no longer support high def out of component or you aren't quite as important as you think you are. I opened my new copy of the A Team which has all the goodies blu ray can offer and it played flawlessly. A Walk in the Clouds is just the movie, no frills, but it was released in 2011. The A Team has everything and played flawlessly (I only watched the first few minutes just to see if it would play), but it was released in 2010. Every studio may not follow Fox, but I bet they do. I also don't intend to download any more updates because if I do, it will disable my player from playing all the pre-2011 blu rays that I have. Signing off for good!
post #66 of 119
Checked out my disc of Total Recal last night. Disc never loaded and theerfore doesn't play. I'll be calling Lionsgate for a replacement. It sure seems that the majority of bad discs are from the early Lionsgate releases.
post #67 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlittrell View Post

I should NEVER have listened to you. I called Amazon (yesterday) and told them I had a defective disc and they replaced it in one day. I actually just got the disc (A Walk in the Clouds) and it WON'T play in my Pioneer 320 either. So apparently you didn't get the memo from 20th Century Fox that they would no longer support high def out of component or you aren't quite as important as you think you are. I opened my new copy of the A Team which has all the goodies blu ray can offer and it played flawlessly. A Walk in the Clouds is just the movie, no frills, but it was released in 2011. The A Team has everything and played flawlessly (I only watched the first few minutes just to see if it would play), but it was released in 2010. Every studio may not follow Fox, but I bet they do. I also don't intend to download any more updates because if I do, it will disable my player from playing all the pre-2011 blu rays that I have. Signing off for good!

ICT movies would play at 540p. Its probably a firmware issue.
post #68 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

ICT movies would play at 540p. Its probably a firmware issue.

Yes, I didn't want to continue the discussion with the poster in question because he clearly had his mind made up. But as you've correctly pointed out, a movie with the ICT WILL PLAY...it just won't play in high definition. So if the movie doesn't play at all, it's a completely different issue.

BTW, I'm in an unusual position in that I have two types of HDTVs in my living room (not that I collect big TVs but It's just too inconvenient for me to get rid of the old TV). I still have my old 51" high def RPTV with component inputs only. Plus I have a fairly new 60" LED backlit LCD using HDMI.
post #69 of 119
I hate Lionsgate customer service. Explained that my Total Recall disc worked about a year ago but now doesn't load on two different brands of bluray players. The rep told me that if it played before then no problem with disc. She also told me that there have never been complaints that a bluray disc played initially but then stopped working. I was told that it "obviously" was my players' fault. Not to mention the rep was incredibly rude and condescending.
post #70 of 119
Unfortunately there are too many reps like that. The are clueless about the background technology and just spew whatever they feel like saying. But that's the "price" we have to pay when the studios are paying bottom-dollars for so-called technical person.
post #71 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex Robinson View Post

I still have my old 51" high def RPTV with component inputs only.

An HDFury would probably solve any future issues with analogue sunset or ICT as it uses HDMI to convert to component and thus appears as a valid HDMI device. A shame it is a little pricey.
post #72 of 119
If the studios continue to insist on perpetual copyright and only granting a license to view the content of a disc (and not actually own the content), I wonder how long before the public challenges this arrangement and demands free disc replacement if they can no longer view the content they paid the license for. There has to be a balance in this increasingly monopolistic hostage situation.

We also have to remember that the studios only exist under the continued patronage of the consumer: consumers will continue to exist whether the studios survive or not. What is that saying about killing the goose that lays the golden egg? DRM is sure starting to look like the axe.
post #73 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlittrell View Post

Last year the movie studios (Disney, etc.) got a law passed that stated that all blu ray players manufactured after 12-31-10 could not pass high def signals through component outputs. I guess that are creating discs that follow that same law. According to the studios, this would greatly reduce piracy because HDMI requires HDCP and component outputs don't. I have only had this experience with A Walk in the Clouds (the only 2011 release I own so far) ,but I intend to rent a blu ray released after 12-31-10 to see if it will play in my Pioneer 320. I predict that it won't. If it doesn't then I am out of the blu ray market until I get a new tv and receiver.

If someone was that desperate would it just be a lot easier for someone to just copy the actual blu-ray in pristine quality than hook it up to some HDPVR through component and end up with DD 5.1 and 10Mbps mpeg2 video two hours later (maybe three with extra) hah.
post #74 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

If the studios continue to insist on perpetual copyright and only granting a license to view the content of a disc (and not actually own the content), I wonder how long before the public challenges this arrangement and demands free disc replacement if they can no longer view the content they paid the license for. There has to be a balance in this increasingly monopolistic hostage situation.

We also have to remember that the studios only exist under the continued patronage of the consumer: consumers will continue to exist whether the studios survive or not. What is that saying about killing the goose that lays the golden egg? DRM is sure starting to look like the axe.

I still have no clue why they banned 24bit audio over blu-ray for PC playback! I mean bus snooping fears? Are they serious? SOme pirate is gonna waste time making a bus snooper to nab 24bit audio that he'd probably compress to some nasty 128 mp3 anyway before distributing??

They really think that 24bit vs 16bit step is where suddenly all out paranoia regarding piracy needs to come into play? How many people even use the headphones or speakers to even make 24 vs 16 sound much different, never mind all the other ridiculous things about it.

All it means it that all of us who buy the discs are denied the ability to play back the discs as created in order to stop ZERO cases of piracy! In fact, I bet some even search around trying to find a way to get 24bit back and stumble onto copy programs, hah, so now not have that they not prevented the loss of a single cent over their 24bit audio piracy paranoia but maybe they have some people copying the whole discs who never would have before (not that I think blu-disc copying actually goes on that much anyway) and still nobody can listen to the 24bit audio from a PC.

It just proves that they pay lawyers who basically make crazy junk up to justify their salaries.
post #75 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey ra View Post

Checked out my disc of Total Recal last night. Disc never loaded and theerfore doesn't play. I'll be calling Lionsgate for a replacement. It sure seems that the majority of bad discs are from the early Lionsgate releases.

yikes i need to check out my copy
post #76 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post
Does it make any difference if you clean the discs with warm water and mild detergent?

I have a suspicion that the cases outgas plasticiser or other chemicals and that these vapours deposit on the disc surface over time, interfering with the laser transmission.
This makes some sense to me. I've seen instances of discs with some dust on them or some film like layer that would not play at first until they were cleaned at some friends households. That and the normal issue of a big greasy thumbprint or something.

If you normally took care in handling your collection it might not seem obvious to try cleaning the disc if you know you never touched the surfaces.

My Fox Blu-ray Discs from the same era had no issue at all on my old chubby PS3.
post #77 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by FendersRule View Post
110 BD owned discs. All have been watched more than once.

1 issue, ever.

It was with Pineapple Express, and all I had to do with disable Blu-ray Live on my PS3. I'm sure it's patched and fixed now to avoid this step...

Why is my case so different?
Just had a thought.

Some of the early BD25s and first releases were using stamped film as the top coat instead of the eventual hardcoat resin mixture. Is it possible that some of those early low production run sized replication runs with that interim top coat fix might be a bit problematic?

I mean many/most of those initial prime the Blu-ray format early production runs in 2006 were really quite small (10,000 25,000 units) in size and have since been repressed using conventional top coat methods.

But here at AVS, many of us were first adopter enthusiast Guinea Pigs and could have a higher chance of having as a group those early production run format teething kinda discs.

Just a thought.
post #78 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Potts View Post
Greetings,

Good to hear Frank..thanks.


Regards,
Ralph:

Just stumbled across this thread.

Did you ever get those discs working at all in any player or did you attempt to get replacements?
post #79 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Just had a thought.

Some of the early BD25s and first releases were using stamped film as the top coat instead of the eventual hardcoat resin mixture. Is it possible that some of those early low production run sized replication runs with that interim top coat fix might be a bit problematic?

I mean many/most of those initial prime the Blu-ray format early production runs in 2006 were really quite small (10,000 25,000 units) in size and have since been repressed using conventional top coat methods.

But here at AVS, many of us were first adopter enthusiast Guinea Pigs and could have a higher chance of having as a group those early production run format teething kinda discs.

Just a thought.

I thought it might be something like that...
post #80 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanboyz View Post

I thought it might be something like that...

I think that may be a possibility now even more than when I posted that idea.

I've flew that idea past some people in the past week that know of Blu-ray replication technology in more detail and they said that although that they have not seen any widespread consumer complaints, its entirely possible that the early growth of the format learning curve small production runs from 2006 or early 2007 might be more problematic.

The early adopters here would be more likely to have collected movies from those early production runs. Besides the stamped hardcoat technique, a lot of early production replication issues have been tweaked over time and its entirely possible that those small early production runs that were in the format learning curve might have some more issues than any modern current production run would now have.

Also, back in 2006 2007 BD50 yield rates and production consistency and cost was a real issue, so its possible more problematic marginal discs may have made it to consumers than would happen now a days.

The most likely issues might be on the early 2006 releases that were on BD25s and used MPEG2 or discs that used PCM audio.

Pretty much, as I'm told by the time BD50s and MPEG4/AVC VC-1 and lossless DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD were the industry standard no one was using a stamped hardcoat anymore for studio production runs as the spin coat hard coat yield issue for dual layer BD50s had been solved in the summer fall of 2007. So anything thats mid to late 2007 should not fall into that scenario.
post #81 of 119
Well my Stargate blu ray has also crapped out (the original release, not the 15th anniversary edition). I even had this one replaced due to the subtitle issue way back when. Tested on three brands of players (Oppo, Panasonic & PS3) and the menu would not load. So for me, that's two titles lost to "rot" - this one and Total Recall. I hope this isn't a trend with Lionsgate titles.
Edited by mikey ra - 6/10/12 at 7:36am
post #82 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey ra View Post

Well my Stargate blu ray has also crapped out (the original release, not the 15th anniversary edition). I even had this one replaced due to the subtitle issue way back when. Tested on three brands of players (Oppo, Panasonic & PS3) and the menu would not load. So for me, that's two titles lost to "rot" - this one and Total Recall. I hope this isn't a trend with Luonsgate titles.

I just watched Stargate a couple days ago, 15th Anniv. ed., I think, but the A/V sync was off. I had to turn everything off and luckily when I tried it again it played properly. I had that happen with one previous title but I don't remember what it was. Maybe they're cutting costs of discs.
post #83 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlittrell View Post


Last year the movie studios (Disney, etc.) got a law passed that stated that all blu ray players manufactured after 12-31-10 could not pass high def signals through component outputs. I guess that are creating discs that follow that same law. According to the studios, this would greatly reduce piracy because HDMI requires HDCP and component outputs don't.
does that also include the ps3?
post #84 of 119
I had the same thing happen with Pearl Harbor.

It seemed a bit more discolored, more "rainbow-ey" than other BD50s for lack of a better term.
It would not play on the PS3 or my HTPC at all. The Oppo made a valiant effort and displayed pixelated, freezing short bursts of the opening Disney Blu-ray trailer.

Contacted Disney support, spoke to the operator and was transferred to a troubleshooter. He sent a prepaid label and I sent them the BD (disc only) for testing.

The disc was determined faulty and a new copy (including case) of Pearl Harbor was sent, took about 2 weeks.

I was hoping with the coating and single substrate construction BDs would be a little more permanent than previous disc based media... frown.gif
post #85 of 119
Well - my third Blu-ray title has now died!!! Went to watch The Ninth Gate last night and even though it played fine last year - it will not load any of my players (Oppo - PS3 or Panny). In fact, I get the "No Disc" reading from my Oppo and the PS3 just spins and spins and then gives up trying to read the disc. Lionsgate disc rot has struck again!!! (previous Lionsgate title that rotted on me were the first versions of Total Recall & Stargate). Sigh
post #86 of 119
I thought ROT went out half way thru laser disk production?
post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchu18 View Post

I thought ROT went out half way thru laser disk production?
Apparently not.

It's been seen in every disc format since, though not every unplayable disc is "rotten". However, I think the term has sort of expanded to any disc that becomes unplayable over time, even if it's another form of material failure.
post #88 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Apparently not.
It's been seen in every disc format since, though not every unplayable disc is "rotten". However, I think the term has sort of expanded to any disc that becomes unplayable over time, even if it's another form of material failure.

That is a good description of the way "rot" is used.
post #89 of 119
I have not yet lost a Blu-ray to "rot", or whatever it is. As an earlier poster said, there was a lot of it on laserdiscs; but in my case, the discs continued to play; they just manifested a multicolored snow-like effect during playback that would worsen over time. And, as the earlier poster said, Columbia Tri-Star LDs were the worst.

My Criterion DVD of A Night to Remember went blank at some point after playing for several years, and they replaced it. I also lost a couple of DVDs to an effect of skipping/jumping/unwatchable. I assume this is some sort of "rot". Still have not had it happen to a Blu; but it's only a matter of time, I suppose.
post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18 Brumaire View Post

I also lost a couple of DVDs to an effect of skipping/jumping/unwatchable. I assume this is some sort of "rot". Still have not had it happen to a Blu; but it's only a matter of time, I suppose.


This topic makes me somewhat nervous. I own a good number of BD titles, some of which are limited editions and several that are out of print and thus irreplaceable (unless I decide to pony up an exhorbitant amount on Fleabay).

I have never been one to rip copy-protected media, even if it is media I purchased, mainly because of the legal issues (and I do not say this to start a heated debate, so please do not start jumping on your soapboxes). But this "rot" issue is making me reconsider my position here. I would hate to lose my OOP BD titles like "Silverado" or "The Third Man (Criterion)" to the rot that I am reading about in this thread eek.gif
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