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Just Ordered a SD600K - Page 5

post #121 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

The lens has built-in ND filter, so the diaphragm is actually constant from F2.8 to F6.8 or so.

I don't mean to doubt you but where did you get this information?
post #122 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenK View Post

I don't mean to doubt you but where did you get this information?

That information was on one of the review sites, don't remember which. The panny's(600,700) have a build in ND filter that silently slips in when needed, and you have no control over it.
The only way to detect this is to point your camera when its on at something bright, and look through the lens-quickly. You'll see a little dark piece of "film" that has slid into place.

Most all consumer camcorders have something like this, yet you'll never find any information about it anywhere. But, you can notice it in going from a dark scene, immediately to a bright seen. It's not just the aperture that is closing down. First you'll notice an immediate darkening(on the LCD)-this is the ND filter sliding into place, then you'll notice the scene brightens a bit, that means auto-exposure has taken a reading and set the aperture.

However, this build in ND filter will not be strong enough for you to use 1/60, or even 1/120 on a sunny day. You may need an ND4, ND8, or both, filters on the camera to do that.
post #123 of 156
Anybody have any good settings for manual mode in low light settings they would like to share?
post #124 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by havasuvideo View Post

That information was on one of the review sites, don't remember which.

So you both saw it. Okay, I can understand this as a way to reduce the number of actual aperture diameters the iris is required to produce (likely reduces the number of vanes since you don't then need to close them as far). This is what a lot of point-and-shoot digital cameras do.

However, I would expect such a filter (assuming there is only one) to be an ND16 (four stops of attenuation). So f-stops of 1.5 to 4 would be achieved without the filter and 5.6 to 16 would be achieved with it using the same iris apertures.

If there are two filters in series, one ND4 and the other ND16, then the ND would be in place for 2.8 to 4, the ND16 would be in place (alone) for 5.6 to 8, while both would in place for 11 to 16. That would require the iris to realize only four actual apertures, at the expense of more glass to go through (which is not always a good thing).

I don't see any way for the iris to be constant from "2.8 to 6.8 or so." I don't see how that would confer any advantage to the iris mechanism, which is the only reason for implementing an internal ND filter (or filters) that is (are) not user controllable (as they are in prosumer models). Do you see any flaw in my reasoning?
post #125 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenK View Post

I would expect such a filter (assuming there is only one) to be an ND16 (four stops of attenuation).

The Canons have 4-stop filter. The Sonys are 3-4 stops depending on a model. The Panasonics seem to have the least powerful filter, about 2 and a half stops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlenK View Post

I don't see any way for the iris to be constant from "2.8 to 6.8 or so." I don't see how that would confer any advantage to the iris mechanism, which is the only reason for implementing an internal ND filter (or filters) that is (are) not user controllable (as they are in prosumer models). Do you see any flaw in my reasoning?

I don't see what you don't see. The ND filter is not ON/OFF, it slides into light path in little steps. At F2.8 there is no filter. At F6.8 (or whatever value it is) it is fully inserted. Diaphragm stays the same from F2.8 to F6.8. Each ND step corresponds to iris steps and to gain steps.
post #126 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

The Canons have 4-stop filter. The Sonys are 3-4 stops depending on a model. The Panasonics seem to have the least powerful filter, about 2 and a half stops.

Agains, source(s) please. This is quite detailed information about the internal design of these products that I, personally, have never seen in product reviews or on the manufacturer's web sites, but maybe I somehow missed it. Please tell where you are getting all this juicy information. I really am interested (I'm not asking to challenge you!)

Quote:


The ND filter is not ON/OFF, it slides into light path in little steps. At F2.8 there is no filter. At F6.8 (or whatever value it is) it is fully inserted. Diaphragm stays the same from F2.8 to F6.8. Each ND step corresponds to iris steps and to gain steps.

Ah, I _did_ assume the ND filter is in or out fully. I would have thought that inserting a piece of glass (or even a gelatin filter) partway into an image forming optical path would not be a great idea. But I'm willing to be convinced of this design detail when I read the same sources you must have access to.
post #127 of 156
Maybe somebody who owns any of Panasonic's 50p or 60p camcorders can download this native clip and tell me if their camcorder is no different.
http://vimeo.com/19874155
The digital zoom was enabled in the first close up of the birds.

Not too many people put clips with fast pans online so that's probably why it's hard to compare it to other clips. Lest just say Ken got me a little nervous saying that their was jitter in another one of my clips.
post #128 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

...This monoprice cables do work on the Sanyo FH1s' HDMI port in 1080p on those Displays. ..
So, I would like to verify that owners with the SD600 are actually getting 1080p60 out from the SD600's HDMI - verified on your display/processor input status screen???.

Thanks for the heads up on the monoprice cable. I have a sd card reader that I just pop the card into and save it. Then use mpc-hc to directly play the mts file. If you press ctrl-j while playing in evr-cp mode it'll show you fps. I am only able to get 60fps on full screen mode. It does look pretty smooth. There is some minute conversion though as ntsc is 59.94 which is what this camcorder saves to. But on my pc I can only set 59 for 60 fps.
post #129 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Maybe somebody who owns any of Panasonic's 50p or 60p camcorders can download this native clip and tell me if their camcorder is no different.
http://vimeo.com/19874155
The digital zoom was enabled in the first close up of the birds.

Not too many people put clips with fast pans online so that's probably why it's hard to compare it to other clips. Lest just say Ken got me a little nervous saying that their was jitter in another one of my clips.

Paulo, I downloaded your clip and the jitter is pretty bad. I have a new PC (intel 2600, 12 GB RAM,ATI 5770) and never saw anything like this with my own clips. I got my SD600 3 days ago and did few tests, all looking OK. When I try to do a fast pan like you did, however, I get a mgs on the screen about it being too fast, don't you see the same msg ? I make some fast pan clips tomorrow ans see if the result is the same.

UPDATE: I created a "data" disk with the mts file and played it on my PS3. Result was the same.
post #130 of 156
I was also tilting down on some of the parts. I'm still going to be doing some more tests. I don't usually pay attention to the message and just wondering how other people's clips are when they pan that fast.
post #131 of 156
Can you guys clarify what you mean by "Jitter?"

Also, though I personally dont think you were panning fast enough to get the message in most of those pans, you can set the display warning to on or off in the camcorder menu.
post #132 of 156
I probably shouldn't have used that word. Just wondering if my unit is as good as others.

If the sky was better, I'd test that as well to see if I'm getting results as bad as some people claim with their units.
post #133 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Maybe somebody who owns any of Panasonic's 50p or 60p camcorders can download this native clip and tell me if their camcorder is no different.
http://vimeo.com/19874155
The digital zoom was enabled in the first close up of the birds.

Not too many people put clips with fast pans online so that's probably why it's hard to compare it to other clips. Lest just say Ken got me a little nervous saying that their was jitter in another one of my clips.

Paulo, it's really weird, I continue to see judder in your pans and I just can't recall seeing any of that in clips from my or other 700 series cams. At times it's almost (though not as bad) as a 24p or 30p clip. This shouldn't be with 60p clips.
post #134 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I probably shouldn't have used that word. Just wondering if my unit is as good as others.

If the sky was better, I'd test that as well to see if I'm getting results as bad as some people claim with their units.

Dont stress too much Paulo. For 299, worst case scenario is that it will make an excellent back up cam-one that you could use in the future for your underwater exploration without fear of ruining a nicer upgraded cam, if you decide this one doesnt meet muster.

And hey, you could probably sell it for 300 anyway. The video looks pretty darn nice to me.
post #135 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Paulo, it's really weird, I continue to see judder in your pans and I just can't recall seeing any of that in clips from my or other 700 series cams. At times it's almost (though not as bad) as a 24p or 30p clip. This shouldn't be with 60p clips.

Did you actually download the clip?

On the one hand sometimes were hanging out in these forums too much that anything can make us think a certain camcorder must be broken and on the other hand, if other camcorders of the same make are actually better than it really is an issue.

I'm thinking it could be the way I was shooting for that particular clip or perhaps it's because I was using the stabilizer mode that's made for walking. It doesn't seam bad at all when I'm very careful. Thinking about it some more, I do remember seeing TM700 clips online as bad when they were shooting as bad.

Just for the heck of it, my next test will be to take some of my outdoor clips and turn them into slow motion 24p clips just to see how they'll look.
post #136 of 156
Paulo, I'm downloading as we speak. I'll throw it up on my Kuro and let you know how it looks. The only problem is that I'll probably have to play the file on my PS3 and sometimes that can introduce some judder with 60p clips. When I played video back from my 700, I always connected the 700 to the TV and used the 700 as the playback device.

Doing it that way I never saw a trace of judder with any of my clips.

P.S.: OKeedokey. You are good to go Paulo! I just watched the downloaded clip on my 1920X1080 computer monitor and it's excellent! I see zero trace of judder anywhere in the clip. It appears this was entirely induced by Vimeo (thank you vimeo). The clip is infinitely better when viewed from the downloaded clip in terms of color, clarity and freedom from artifacts.

You got yourself quite a bargain there Paulo.
post #137 of 156
I played the file on my PS3 and there was a lot of judder, strange.
post #138 of 156
Slimoli, what I've found is that the PS3 can introduce this judder as it tries to keep up with the 60p clips. I gave up trying to play them on mine and used the camera as the playback machine. Doing that I went from judder on the PS3 to zero judder on the camera.

The amount of judder on the PS3 varies greatly depending on which model and which version of software you have.
post #139 of 156
Speaking of Vimeo, I do wish the streaming videos were in 60p.

I was wondering what your seeing that I ain't seeing. Even the fan issue got to me one day. I was playing back all of the clips in Splash and once it got to a clip inside the bathroom, for 2 seconds I thought the bathroom fan noise was from my camcorder. That's not funny at all.
post #140 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Slimoli, what I've found is that the PS3 can introduce this judder as it tries to keep up with the 60p clips. I gave up trying to play them on mine and used the camera as the playback machine. Doing that I went from judder on the PS3 to zero judder on the camera.

The amount of judder on the PS3 varies greatly depending on which model and which version of software you have.
Thanks. I learned one more thing: WMP ,even on my new i-7 PC with 12 Gb and decent graphics, doesn't play any 60P video without stuttering. I played paulo's video using VLC Media Player and it looks perfect.
post #141 of 156
post #142 of 156
Yup, I've found Splash is the best for playing 60p clips. Interestingly, my I7 HP plays 60p clips perfectly whether on WMP or Splash.
post #143 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Speaking of Vimeo, I do wish the streaming videos were in 60p.

I was wondering what your seeing that I ain't seeing. Even the fan issue got to me one day. I was playing back all of the clips in Splash and once it got to a clip inside the bathroom, for 2 seconds I thought the bathroom fan noise was from my camcorder. That's not funny at all.

Lol, man, I can relate to this. My first real footage was taken at a zoo. And in all of the clips there was this terrible buzzing noise, which I def do not recall it being so loud at the zoo. In one of he clips I realized we were behind the aquarium, and calmed down, but then there was still this horrible whirring sound at the other side of the zoo, and I started to panic.

A couple of clips later, we were in the petting barn, and the whirring was going on, and I got really upset. Then I heard. "Clunk, Clunk, Alright guys!!" And then nothing but my daughter and wife and the chicken. The buzzing was gone. That was when I realized there was some construction work, and going back could see some of it in the background in the woods. Lol, it was pretty funny.
post #144 of 156
Obviously the SD600K is no longer available directly from Amazon.

I was starting to wonder why all the 3rd party sellers were listed as Used-Like new condition, but they all specify in the comments that they are brand new. After seeing this thread it makes more sense. I guess Amazon requires them to be sold as used to avoid warranty issues?
post #145 of 156
Back in stock!
Not the incredible deal that some of us got including me for $300 but really, $400 isn't bad at all for this camcorder. Hopefully their all brand new.
post #146 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Back in stock!
Not the incredible deal that some of us got including me for $300 but really, $400 isn't bad at all for this camcorder. Hopefully their all brand new.


So back when these were $300 and a large group of us went out and purchased, i did the same. Really excited that I would have a nice camcorder to record my daughter during her fastpitch softball games.

Ordered and shipped out on the 4th....still haven't received. Think USPS lost it.....AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
post #147 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benito Joaquin View Post

So back when these were $300 and a large group of us went out and purchased, i did the same. Really excited that I would have a nice camcorder to record my daughter during her fastpitch softball games.

Ordered and shipped out on the 4th....still haven't received. Think USPS lost it.....AAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I bet that if you contact them they will honor the previous price given the circumstances. You may have to talk to a manager, but amazon has really spectacular customer service.
post #148 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

For $300, it's a remarkable camcorder if I do say so myself.
Here's a couple of big clips from my first outing that I put together using HD writer.
http://vimeo.com/19619615
Please keep in mind that I had trouble holding it a bit since I'm not even used to the small size yet.

Video looks great!!! I can't wait till I get my SD600. What a deal, even at $399.
post #149 of 156
Yea man, I know we have been talking a lot about bondi blue in the other thread, but in my day trip, traveling home videos I have never once thought anything but how great it looks. Awesome vids Paulo, that beach you were at in the other thread looked like an awesome place to. You sure do get out to some cool stuff...one day I am going to have to move out of the country of South Carolina...(relative to a big city anyway )
post #150 of 156
Well I do like to go out to different places. For sure going to a beach when it's freezing might not be one of my brightest ideas. That beach will be packed in the summer. It's actually the oldest "public" beach in the US. Their are other good beaches scattered around New England as well.

I've actually travelled so much especially in Massachusetts that I really need to get to other countries and not just the Azores, Portugal where I was born in. Places such as India, etc., would definitely give me good video shooting opportunities. If I had the money I'd take at least 4 straight months to keep going to different countries and you never know if I'll get that opportunity one day.
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