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Which screen to go with?

post #1 of 44
12/11/10 at 10:41am
Thread Starter 
Hey Guys,

I will purchasing my new JVC-hd250, and have decided on a 120" screen

My room size is 20' x 18" and 7'7" ceiling.
Just trying to see if I should go with a Grey screen or a white screen. Also what Gain.

My room will totally be light controlled.

my throw distance will probally be around 15-16ft. Since the projector can handle that.

Any suggestions would be great. I am looking at the Da-lite screens.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 44
12/11/10 at 2:07pm
White. In a truly light controlled room, unity gain should be fine. However, some people like higher gain, getting all the way up to the Dalite HP, if with its own set of compromises.

I use a 126" Seymour XD screen, and it is the best HT upgrade I have done ever since I got a PJ! Using a JVC RS1, which I believe is basically your model, but a few generations older. Flat black ceiling and black carpets in front of viewers. I haven't been watching movies this frequently in a long time, in fact I just bumped up my Netflix account a couple of days ago. Anyways, the use of an AT screen allows for both the proper design and placement of the center speaker, and boy, is that a huge thing. Something to look into you. I went DIY, and the fabric for me was $240, and that was with the maximum "tilt" in mind. IOW, I could have spent even less.

Carada is probably the most popular value buy. Focupix will be the cheapest while worth getting (for the money), but since you can afford Dalite, forget Focupix.

Time for you to request samples from all of the brands you are interested in.
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post #3 of 44
12/12/10 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

... Anyways, the use of an AT screen allows for both the proper design and placement of the center speaker, and boy, is that a huge thing. Something to look into...

I second that. You seem to have the room depth that would allow at least considering AT. Of course, it depends on the screen wall and your LCR sizes. But the viewing experience can't be overstated. It also does wonders for room aesthetics (WAF) if that's an issue.

And just for kicks, think about going to a 2.35:1 'scope' screen size. If you do much movie watching (vs. HDTV), a 'scope' screen has a 1.78:1 (HD) screen beat for movie watching experience big time. Again, depends on screen wall size, but if you can fit a 120" screen, then 2.35 won't be a problem. Then again, you may already have that in mind.
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post #4 of 44
12/12/10 at 6:02pm
Every screen we've had has been a gray - high contrast material screen. Gray minimizes visibility of the "black bars" the dark areas that EVERY projector throws as it scales different material to its native aspect ratio and most all consumer HT projectors have a native aspect ratio of 16:9 which is the N. America standard for HD TV. As you know, older movies have aspect ratio of 3:1 (like original King Kong) while most modern films have much wider aspect ratio than 16:9 so we all have to live with vertical or horizontal scaling "bars". IMO - gray makes these bars almost invisible.

We've always bought 4:3 or more square screens. All commercial theater screens are more square - like 4:3. This gives the projector operator a lot more zoom and other image adjustment flexibility. People with ultra wide screen and more rectangular screens just can't get the best sized image when showing tv or older and classic films.

Our screen is about 100 inches wide and we get about a 120in diagonal image but our screen is much taller or higher than most so we get the best wider screen images and also the best and biggest possible "square" content images - I recall like 84in X 100in is our size - IMO - this is a good screen solution.
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post #5 of 44
12/15/10 at 10:08am
I'm in the same boat with the HD250, however I may not have complete light control. Would a Gray screen be a better solution? Does anyone have an opinion on Elite screens?
Thanks for your input.
Andreas
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post #6 of 44
12/15/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas K View Post
I'm in the same boat with the HD250, however I may not have complete light control. Would a Gray screen be a better solution? Does anyone have an opinion on Elite screens?
Thanks for your input.
Andreas
There is a whole thread on Elite. I have a fixed frame one and like it. Gray will improve contrast in a lit room, but it won't work miracles
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post #7 of 44
12/15/10 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post
There is a whole thread on Elite. I have a fixed frame one and like it. Gray will improve contrast in a lit room, but it won't work miracles
It all depends on your Budget...
there is new screen shots posted on the Si Thread
You can also look at the Stewart Firehawk but the SI is better with Room Light Scatter.....

And Thats something that the Elite screen cant Do...
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post #8 of 44
12/15/10 at 6:03pm
si thread? Sorry about the newby question. I would like to spend under $1000.
Thanks,
Andreas
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post #9 of 44
12/15/10 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas K View Post

si thread? Sorry about the newby question. I would like to spend under $1000.
Thanks,
Andreas

Screen Innovations black diamond Thread...
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post #10 of 44
12/16/10 at 7:04am
The Elite is definitely a budget screen. It is vinyl based and is pretty good for what it does. However, there are better screens out there. They cost more. A black Diamond is going to cost several thousand dollars. Most of the 'good' ones wil cost over $1k.

The big factors when choosing a screen are:
1. fixed vs pull down (manual or electric). Generally better to go with a fixed screen if the room can aesthetically handle it. Pull down screens wrinkle and sag. A tab tensioned screen will counteract that somewhat, but not always.

2. Gain. A higher gain screen will reflect back more light from the projector to the viewer. It will also reject off axis light, making it better in a room with some ambient light. The downside is that the higher the gain, the narrower the viewing angle, i.e. the chairs have to be closer to being in-line with the projector and screen.

3. Color. A gray or "black" screen will improve contrast of your picture. It will lower overall brightness somewhat, but that is becomming less of an issue with modern bright projectors. This works by tricking your eyes. Take a look at the screen with the projector off and lighting at theater levels. This is the darkest black you can ever see. Now, with a gray screen, that black will be darker. The whites are controlled by the brightness of the projector and are not an issue because the iris of your eyes will close down and set it to a comfortable level. Not really a downside of going gray these days, except cost and aesthetics.

4. Material. Especially acoustically transparent (AT) material. An AT screen can either be a woven cloth, usually fiberglass or poly, or it can be a perforated vinyl sheet. The advantage of an AT screen is that you can place speakers behind it and the sound will then come from the characters, not above or below them. Downside is cost and close up viewing. Most modern AT screens are designed so that you can't see the weaving more than a few feet away, so that is becoming less of a concern. There is one additional issue with AT in that you need to build a false wall so you have room for the speakers behind the screen.

These are the things you need to consider when deciding on a screen, and unless we know all of it, we really can't give a good recommendation.
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post #11 of 44
12/16/10 at 8:26am
Buy the best screen possible now -- even if it is costly. Then you won't have to change screens later as you move up in projectors...plus it will help make budget projectors look as good as they can look.
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post #12 of 44
12/16/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Buy the best screen possible now -- even if it is costly. Then you won't have to change screens later as you move up in projectors...plus it will help make budget projectors look as good as they can look.

second that
the screen is more important to the home theater than the projector....
Spend more get a better screen that will last
Even if you have to just start with an entry level projector...

If someone couldnt afford to get a better screen and cheaper projector than they should be looking at 2 piece projection...
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post #13 of 44
12/16/10 at 11:59am
agreed. Screen is more important then PJ by far. Too many people do it backwards

You should have a screen forever if taken care of
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post #14 of 44
12/16/10 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

agreed. Screen is more important then PJ by far. Too many people do it backwards

You should have a screen forever if taken care of

I don't have a lot of experience with FP setups (I currently own a Viewsonic Pro8100 and it's my first time owning a FP), but I have a really difficult time believing what you say to be true.

By your logic an Optoma HD20 with a Stewart screen would produce a better picture than a JVC HD250 and an Elite screen?
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post #15 of 44
12/16/10 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpage View Post

I don't have a lot of experience with FP setups (I currently own a Viewsonic Pro8100 and it's my first time owning a FP), but I have a really difficult time believing what you say to be true.

By your logic an Optoma HD20 with a Stewart screen would produce a better picture than a JVC HD250 and an Elite screen?

Thats what we are saying ...
An JVC Entry Level Projector would produce a better picture on a High End Screen Like a SI Black Diamond or a Stewart Firehawk

Than getting a JVC Flag Ship High End Projector on a Elite Screen or something similar in quality ....

Thats a Proven Fact......

This is why its so important to go to a dealer that can give you a proper demo.....
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post #16 of 44
12/16/10 at 2:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

Thats what we are saying ...
An JVC Entry Level Projector would produce a better picture on a High End Screen Like a SI Black Diamond or a Stewart Firehawk

Than getting a JVC Flag Ship High End Projector on a Elite Screen or something similar in quality ....

Thats a Proven Fact......

This is why its so important to go to a dealer that can give you a proper demo.....

Those who are not familiar with front projection need to educate themselves. There are lots of people posting on this forum and some times really bad advice is given.
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post #17 of 44
12/16/10 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

Thats a Proven Fact.....

Do you have an article or review available which proves this?

I have no doubt that Stewart makes some of the best screens available... just have never been told or read before that it would allow a sub $1000 projector to compete with one in the $3-$5000 range..
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post #18 of 44
12/16/10 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpage View Post

Do you have an article or review available which proves this?

I have no doubt that Stewart makes some of the best screens available... just have never been told or read before that it would allow a sub $1000 projector to compete with one in the $3-$5000 range..

Do You have any Dealers in your Area...?

Here is a pic in a high ambient light setting ,
The Projector Is Epson Flag Ship High End Pro Cinema 9700ub
Screen is Screen Innovations Black Diamond .8 gain screen...

If this was on an Elite Screen the pic would washed out and un watchable even with the flag ship Epson Projector...

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post #19 of 44
12/16/10 at 4:25pm
Okay here is an example to the other end of the scenerio..

Sony BRAVIA 1080p SXRD Projector (VPLHW15)
Accuscreen 92" Motorized Projection Screen (800013)
Close to same Light Conditions
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post #20 of 44
12/16/10 at 4:40pm
And you do realize screen shots are worthless and no one said anything about ambient light. In fact here is a quote from the Original poster.
"My room will totally be light controlled. "

Now to your tall tailed claims, where are scientific measurements and professional reviews that tell us that using X screen will make an inexpensive projector look like one 10x it's cost?
Until we get the quantifying data that is factual from multiple respected sources there really isn't much to talk about..
What do you think the Lexus Dealer would say about the Chevy?
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post #21 of 44
12/16/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

Do You have any Dealers in your Area...?

Only Best Buy/Magnolia in my immediate area and the $1500 Screen Innovations screen they are pushing in Magnolia looks orders of magnitude worse than the drywall I am currently projecting on. And I have a lesser projector to boot.
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post #22 of 44
12/16/10 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

And you do realize screen shots are worthless and no one said anything about ambient light. In fact here is a quote from the Original poster.
"My room will totally be light controlled. "

Now to your tall tailed claims, where are scientific measurements and professional reviews that tell us that using X screen will make an inexpensive projector look like one 10x it's cost?
Until we get the quantifying data that is factual from multiple respected sources there really isn't much to talk about..
What do you think the Lexus Dealer would say about the Chevy?

Just trying to prove a point that going with a better screen is better than a cheap one...

I have done the test in show rooms with a Runco on a cheap ass screen
and a Epson 8350 on a Stewart Firehawk

And the cheaper projector produced close to the Higher End unit...
WHy
Because of the Screen

BTW
and Right now GM Is Kicking TOyota's Candy Azz in Sales....
Just cause i live in Cananda I still Buy Americian...
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post #23 of 44
12/16/10 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpage View Post

Only Best Buy/Magnolia in my immediate area and the $1500 Screen Innovations screen they are pushing in Magnolia looks orders of magnitude worse than the drywall I am currently projecting on. And I have a lesser projector to boot.

If you have a Magnolia store in your area you probley have a Local Dealer in your area that sells 2 piece projection...

You really need to go into a A/V Dealer that specializes in 2 piece projection and see for your self...
I for one dont recommend a magnolia store those people are not the best when it comes to indepth info...

Again if you are in a complete controlled light room you need to keep in mind light scatter on the walls and ceiling ....

If you use a matte white Da Lite screen your room is going to light up from the reflective light from the screen onto your walls and ceiling....

Actually Da Lite was trying to say they where in the same class as Stewart...
So Stewart challenged them to a Screen test ...
Bring your Best Screen and Lets do some Testing....
Da Lite Never even Showed Up....

If I had to choose a Da Lite or Accu Screen vs My Taupe Painted Dry Wall
I would Choose my Taupe Painted Wall
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post #24 of 44
12/17/10 at 6:56am
This is all well and good, but there are times when someone needs to balance.

First, there is budget. Should the OP (who was asking for help) go with sound through a cheap boombox so he can afford that Black Diamond? The entire system needs to be balanced with consideration of the budget.

Second, there is also the issue of intended usage. Is that Black Diamond important in a light controlled room? What if the width dictates AT to get the speakers hidden? A Ferrari is a great car, but I wouldn't buy one if I lived at the end of a ten mile unpaved mountain road.

Finally, there is a matter of commitment? Is the builder fully committed to an all out theater, or is he just dipping his toes? An Elite is a good entry into seeing if this is going to work at all. Remember, a cheap screen like an Elite can be resold through Craigslist at almost no $$ loss. A higher end screen is going to take a much larger hit.
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post #25 of 44
12/17/10 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post

This is all well and good, but there are times when someone needs to balance.

First, there is budget. Should the OP (who was asking for help) go with sound through a cheap boombox so he can afford that Black Diamond? The entire system needs to be balanced with consideration of the budget.

Second, there is also the issue of intended usage. Is that Black Diamond important in a light controlled room? What if the width dictates AT to get the speakers hidden? A Ferrari is a great car, but I wouldn't buy one if I lived at the end of a ten mile unpaved mountain road.

Finally, there is a matter of commitment? Is the builder fully committed to an all out theater, or is he just dipping his toes? An Elite is a good entry into seeing if this is going to work at all. Remember, a cheap screen like an Elite can be resold through Craigslist at almost no $$ loss. A higher end screen is going to take a much larger hit.

Totally understand that people are on a budget,,,
And not everyone can afford a Stewart or SI Black Diamond Screen...

But when people are setting up a room they think of everything and leave the screen last...
The screen is just as important as a projector..

Mississipi Man has posted pics of his Epson 8350 on his painted screen
and from those pics his Painted screen has better results than a Elite or Accuscreen could ever produce...
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post #26 of 44
12/17/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraisa View Post

Totally understand that people are on a budget,,,
And not everyone can afford a Stewart or SI Black Diamond Screen...

But when people are setting up a room they think of everything and leave the screen last...
The screen is just as important as a projector..

Seems like you are Monetarily Biased to the Black Diamond as you claim to be a dealer in the Black Diamond Thread... go figure!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post19603166
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post #27 of 44
12/17/10 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Seems like you are Monetarily Biased to the Black Diamond as you claim to be a dealer in the Black Diamond Thread... go figure!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t#post19603166

No I am a Stewart and A Black Diamond Dealer..
Sell Both
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post #28 of 44
12/17/10 at 8:57am
Yeah I get that the screen is very important and is often just an afterthought for many people. But when your budget is in the $3,500 range, are you supposed to spend 85% of that budget on a screen and be left with a $500 projector?

Also, does the Black Diamond come in a pull down model?
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post #29 of 44
12/17/10 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayn_j View Post

The Elite is definitely a budget screen. It is vinyl based and is pretty good for what it does. However, there are better screens out there. They cost more. A black Diamond is going to cost several thousand dollars. Most of the 'good' ones wil cost over $1k.

The big factors when choosing a screen are:
1. fixed vs pull down (manual or electric). Generally better to go with a fixed screen if the room can aesthetically handle it. Pull down screens wrinkle and sag. A tab tensioned screen will counteract that somewhat, but not always.

2. Gain. A higher gain screen will reflect back more light from the projector to the viewer. It will also reject off axis light, making it better in a room with some ambient light. The downside is that the higher the gain, the narrower the viewing angle, i.e. the chairs have to be closer to being in-line with the projector and screen.

3. Color. A gray or "black" screen will improve contrast of your picture. It will lower overall brightness somewhat, but that is becomming less of an issue with modern bright projectors. This works by tricking your eyes. Take a look at the screen with the projector off and lighting at theater levels. This is the darkest black you can ever see. Now, with a gray screen, that black will be darker. The whites are controlled by the brightness of the projector and are not an issue because the iris of your eyes will close down and set it to a comfortable level. Not really a downside of going gray these days, except cost and aesthetics.

4. Material. Especially acoustically transparent (AT) material. An AT screen can either be a woven cloth, usually fiberglass or poly, or it can be a perforated vinyl sheet. The advantage of an AT screen is that you can place speakers behind it and the sound will then come from the characters, not above or below them. Downside is cost and close up viewing. Most modern AT screens are designed so that you can't see the weaving more than a few feet away, so that is becoming less of a concern. There is one additional issue with AT in that you need to build a false wall so you have room for the speakers behind the screen.

These are the things you need to consider when deciding on a screen, and unless we know all of it, we really can't give a good recommendation.

Jayn_J,
Thanks for the the explanation! My setup is in the basement with three windows on the opposite end of the room. I plan to use blackout drapes on these so I will have pretty good light control. I am looking for a fixed screen and I was reading up and alot of people are vary satisfied with the Carada Brilliant white (gain 1.4) screens paired up with their JVC RS-10 (very similar to the HD250). I have ready the replies to this thread, but I really need to stick to my budget of $1000. BTW I don't need any AT material. Any help additional would be appreciated.
Andreas
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post #30 of 44
12/17/10 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoHo View Post
Yeah I get that the screen is very important and is often just an afterthought for many people. But when your budget is in the $3,500 range, are you supposed to spend 85% of that budget on a screen and be left with a $500 projector?

Also, does the Black Diamond come in a pull down model?
Glad to answer your question
please repost it here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...932169&page=53

Dont want to take away from this threads purpose.....
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