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Viewsonic Pro8200 -- it exists. - Page 21

post #601 of 1081
Has anyone tried (or could they try) hooking up a htpc via vga cable and see if that eliminates the sharpness/pixel mapping issue? The specs state 1080p for the vga input. I may go ahead and get one anyway, but that would be cool if that worked. I would do all my blu-ray viewings through the computer instead of the ps3. I know that's how Mikes2cents tested and verified the problem with the Acer H9500BD.
post #602 of 1081
long story short, I used to use vga exclusively with my htpc and projector due to my screwed up pro8200 hdmi ports (see earlier in the thread if interested). when I found an hdmi cable that (mostly) works, it was like a night and day difference to me. I assume it is the analog vs digital signal, but either way it was like going from a black and white tv to color for me. I still remember the first bluray I watched when I switched to hdmi: tron: legacy. the difference was incredible. it was like realizing why blu-ray really is that much better. I would highly recommend you stay with hdmi if possible. however, I think the real question is, how did you get an avsforum account without having at least 36 old vga cables lying around?
post #603 of 1081
Haha. I have a few around, but not a long run to reach the projectors. And I don't have a unit to test yet. I did go ahead and order one though. Still seems like too good of a deal to pass up. Your theory makes sense, I just wonder why they seem to have success with it in the Acer thread. If you look at Mikes2cent's review on Newegg, he states: "A totally awesome picture via the VGA input." Hmmmm...
post #604 of 1081
Coderguy
I just did the test but I must be doing something wrong. I am using windows 7 paint program and using the smallest line I can find , can't find anything wrong with the picture. I tried it both with vga and hdmi.
I am using Computer with geforce 9200.
my build date of pro8200 is nov 23th 2011.
p7v37-9150-00-A-11-07-13-w6004-vs-2.20-0.03 firmware
Now if I make a straight line is seems smooth, I use the feature where it automatically does straight line when you draw it, I start by placing a point and move it away from that point and it draws it straight when I stop moving the pointer, so it takes any shakiness out , instead of hand drawing the line. Am I doing the test the wrong way?

Maybe people that bought the pro8200 the last 5 months can also do test.
I know you bought refurb and you probably have very early firmware, what is your manufacture date on your unit and what is your firmware, can you post. Maybe others that do the test can list build date and firmware so we can figure out if VS fixed the problem.
post #605 of 1081
You have to walk up close where your nose is almost touching the screen so you can see the individual pixels.
I drew in a paint program what a SINGLE PIXEL straight line looks like on my unit:



Notice the gray outside the black (it isn't actually that dark, but you get the point). Also, the other thing that can happen depending on the mode, is instead of 1 black line with gray border, I'll get 2 solid black lines (depends on aspect ratio setting). So far I keep the "gray border" version as it probably looks better, but not that much different. I am not able to achieve a clean black line with pure white on the immediate edges.

Firmware is 2.09-.003 (or something like that), not sure on build date, forgot where to look for that (probably on the PJ itself I'm guessing).
post #606 of 1081
Coderguy!
I'm not the one to test this, my eyes are not good for seeing screen up close like that. I need to put on my glasses and I'm not sure I'm seeing what you are referring to. Maybe the other guys can test this.
If I go up to my 42 inch monitor about 7 inchs back , I see black line and grayish outside, blurry a little. I see the same thing on screen with pro8200 , if I go back 7 inches. At 6 feet back I don't notice it on either 42 inch monitor or pro8200. It could be my eyes, I don't know. But if I "focus" on it, I can look for it on my 42 inch monitor and find the grayish thing, same on pro8200, but if I don't focus on it, I wouldn't see it, if that makes sense.
Maybe the other guys can narrow it down to see if "newer" firmware fixed this problem.
The manufacture date is on bottom of unit. But the build date if good enough, I guess.
It's a non-issue for me , from 7-10 feet back. I was thinking this issue was something I could see, from 3 foot back, but couldn't.
post #607 of 1081
I can see the slight reduction in sharpness it is causing from 8 feet back on a 106" screen. Also, if turn up the sharpness enhancement setting, I can also tell the lack of perfect pixel mapping is causing "early ringing" around the edges of objects before the sharpness control is even set high.

I don't think the pixel mapping issue is as bad as it was on the Benq w7000 or Acer, maybe though --- not sure...
It is not a complete loss in pixel mapping, but it is a "border" effect which shows up almost like a convergence or CA error, but I know it's not CA because the outer pixel lines are always the same color as the primary line (only at a dimmer color). It could also just be a processing error in the projector rather than a true 1:1 pixel mapping issue, some kind of "always on" enhancement gone wrong type thing.

It is causing some loss in sharpness though for sure.
post #608 of 1081
Coderguy
Maybe do the test on your PC monitors too, and your jvc. I remember the first time I went up to my 42 inch monitor , back around 6 inches. I was surprised to see thousands of black squares with light in the middle. Now that I "know" that , even from 6 feet back, I can "sort" of see those little boxes. Before that, I would have just thought is was a grey screen or white screen. Also, these are static pictures, movies and most of the stuff we use PJ for are not static. The sharpness of your jvc and the pro8200 is the same, right , from 6 feet back? Right?
Get a 3rd party (wife,child,friend) , to judge between the sharpness of jvc and pro8200, with out telling them anything. Don't plant anything in their mind. Get a second and 3rd opinion. Now that you know about this issue, it's in the back of your mind, right?
post #609 of 1081
I am versed on how to test projectors, the issue is not normal. I have also run pixel mapping tests from the DVE and S&M disk, both of which the Pro8200 failed. The JVC is slightly sharper.

I can see the difference in video content if I try hard, but it's not as easy. If I play the opening scene from Ultimate Wave Tahiti where a "reference quality" camera shot pans over the ocean, I can see some projectors are sharper. Another instance where I can see it is on the reference level disks "Tree of Life" or "Art of Flight".

It's nothing to worry about too much, the actual loss in sharpness in video is fairly small. Despite the issue, like I have said before, this projector is sharper than older LCD's, and as sharp as most of the newer ones as well. The error is sort of like a convergence issue.
post #610 of 1081
The JVC is only a TINY bit sharper (if it makes you feel any better)...
post #611 of 1081
Coderguy!
Yeah, that makes me feel better knowing the JVC is a little bit sharper.

I guess I was expecting to notice something when I fired up the PC and looked for the "problem" and couldn't find anything.

Then you told me to go up to screen and look and I had trouble focusing.
I was just frustrated and couldn't tell if maybe it's not a problem for me because I have "newer" firmware or it was something else. I tried to make that clear in my posts. It probably made it seem like I was criticizing you , and I'm sorry if i gave that impressed. I just didn't "get it", that is all. Maybe BSE53 can do a test on his pro8200, because we both got our PJ's at around same time, and can tell if our firmware has that problem.

Coderguy, you the man, sorry for the mix up.
post #612 of 1081
No problem. My JVC has really good convergence and is sharper than most projectors. It'd be hard to judge the sharpness but I own multiple projectors, so it's easier for me to see in a comparison. The JVC costs almost quadruple this projector.
post #613 of 1081

Fed up with the InFocus X10 posterization issue after hitting the 10,000 hour mark, I pulled the trigger on the Viewsonic Pro 8200. It's for my HTPC. First impressions, comments:

  • I literally came within a fraction of an inch of sending it back, because of its placement fickleness. It took me a couple of hours to manage to get the throw distance / angle / aspect ratio / resolution to something acceptable that just fits, with a sixteenth of an inch to spare on either side.
  • Speaking of resolution, I can't get it to do 1080p / 1360x768 over HDMI, like my X10 does, without the the Pr08200 putting big black pillarbox and letterbox bars in, thereby shrinking the actual image in the center of the screen. I finally had to settle on 1080p / 1600x900, but had to do a bunch of Windows tweaks to get the fonts to be big enough to read.
  • When I first got it about 3 years ago, my X10 was a light cannon. There was certainly a wow factor when I first fired it up, coming from an (buzz saw) InFocus X1 before that, and before that, an early '90s Sharp LCD projector I brought back with me from Japan. But although LCD projectors are the ones supposed to be prone to dimming, over time the X10 has dimmed somewhat, or I've become more jaded, or both. But this Pro8200 is not just a light cannon, it's a howitzer of lumens. And the colors are vivid. I crave brightness, so I can't believe I actually turned the brightness down to 25, even in Eco Mode.
  • It's a slight bit noisier than I had anticipated, even in Eco Mode.
  • I did turn Quick Power On and Quick Power Off both off, as recommended by coderguy. Good lamp life-extending advice.
  • Is the included CD useful for anything, besides a PDF of the User's Guide? I ran it on the HTPC I have the Pro8200 hooked up to, and it seemed to indicate it was installing drivers, but all I can see is a new Viewsonic program folder which contains the PDF Guide. I don't see any improvements, changes or added options in my computer's display properties/video card settings or resolutions.
  • The Pro8200 does indeed seem a bit fuzzier than my X10, which may be the pixel mapping issue raised here. It's not horrible, and for me not quite a deal-breaker (although I can imagine it might be for some), but I'm quite sure I noticed it, even without doing an A/B test or coderguy's pixel line test. It's kind of a shame for an otherwise pretty good machine, especially at its price point. It leads one to speculate if this could and would be fixed with a firmware update.

    On the other hand, I'm scheduled for a long overdue eye exam next week, so I'll wait until then to make a final judgement. So I'm keeping the shipping box.

Edited by plplplpl - 6/19/12 at 11:31pm
post #614 of 1081
You should be able to get rid of MOST (probably all) the outer border when hooked to the HTPC. You need to change the ASPECT mode from 16:9 to Auto (or vice versa). If that does not fix it, then it is a problem with the HTPC signal or video driver, and you will need to play around with the Video Card's settings. You also may need to re-install driver and reboot the PC several times. I have had the VS stuck in that mode before, you'll get it out eventually and then it should remember the proper settings. Some projectors are very finnicky about HTPC's on the HDMI port.

The sharpness on this projector is fine. I just did a SHARPNESS TEST comparing my JVC to the Mits hc4000 DLP, and my JVC beats that projector too, so don't be suprised that my JVC is beating the Pro8200 in sharpness.

Both the Mits hc4000 and Optoma hd20 (even though they do perfect 1:1 mapping with no border), well they both have a focus uniformity issue that the Viewsonic doesn't have, so it almost evens out. You can't expect one projector to be the best in all categories. The Benq w1200 takes the sharpness award for cheap DLP's, next is the Mits hc4000, then the VS and HD20 are close to the same, and yes I've seen all these projectors at least briefly. If the "border/mapping" issue were fixed on the Viewsonic, I have a feeling that its sharpness would rival the Benq's, but for now it's still sharp enough.

Viewsonic Advantages:
Brighter, Less RBE than the others, Better OOTB Color, Longer lasting lamps (see brighter), Better focus uniformity even with 1:1 mapping issue

The Viewsonic has some of the most accurate OOTB color once the lamp gets past 500 hours, and I mean seriously insanely accurate. I am guessing once I measure the saturation tracking (need Calman 5 to do so easily), that it probably tracks more accurately than most projectors, that is probably why the color looks so accurate after the lamp is worn in. After lamp wear, It's actually more accurate than every other PJ I've owned, except the Mits hc4000 and Sony vw70 (and they are really close).

If my JVC had color this good, I'd be doing a dance of joy.
post #615 of 1081
If I try 1360x768 over HDMI, even after rebooting, when I set the projector's Aspect to 16:9, it fills the screen, but the aspect ratio is off - a circle is slightly flattened horizontally, and if I set the projector's Aspect to Auto, the aspect ratio if fine, but as mentioned big black pillarbox and letterbox bars get put in, thereby shrinking the actual image in the center of the screen. Perhaps this is a behavior which occurs over HDMI - I haven't tested VGA - but my InFocus X10 had no problems doing 1080p / 1360x768 over HDMI.

Oddly enough, the Pro8200 indicates 1440x900 in bottom right corner source information. Is this a limitation of the Pro8200's firmware, that it doesn't handle 1360x768? Also, 1360x768 only shows up only under the PC section in my video card resolution settings with the Pro8200, whereas 1080p / 1360x768 was under the HD section with my X10. Under the HD section for the Pro8200, 1080 (p or i) doesn't go below 1600x900, which is what I had to end up using. Furthermore, I have to use the 1080p / 1600x900 with the Pro8200's Aspect set to Auto, because if it's set to 16:9, the image extends beyond the four edges of the screen, making the taskbar disappear, among other things.





So it looks like the only thing that will work for my HTPC over HDMI is 1080p / 1600x900 with the Pro8200's Aspect set to Auto, unless I'm still missing something.

Other thoughts:
  • Yup, good value for the price point and good warranty.
  • Absolutely no RBE, no matter how I try to get myself to see it, but it's never really been a problem for me.
  • Agreed, great, vivid OOTB colors.
  • Great connectivity.
  • Added bonus of functional built-in speakers (a nice feat considering its relatively small size) and even a (karaoke?) mike input. Not sure I'll be getting much use out of those, but hey.
  • Dapper carrying case.
  • Decent remote, the writing on whose buttons you can actually see in the dark when you light them up, unlike some others I won't mention *cough* *cough*.
  • So far, posterization no más.

LL
LL
post #616 of 1081
Try troubleshooting it while passing it a pure 1920x1080 resolution, unless you want the lower resolution for increased gaming performance?
Then maybe try 1280x720 or 1280x800.

I have had this black border issue before EVEN when passing a native 1080p signal, as it's one of those weird problems where you have to play around with things and the solution doesn't always make sense. Auto Aspect mode is the correct one for most HTPC's, so keep it in that setting for now while you play around with it. It's some kind of "memorized bug" or negotiation bug between the PJ and VC. Try a different HDMI cable, reinstall the video card driver, and you may need to get a different video card for the HTPC worst case. It's very doubtfully the projector. I don't remember what fixed it exactly, but I did multiple things until it resolved. It was creating a huge border around the screen just like yours was (and I recall the same "almost fixed" results when changing to 1600x900 and 16:9 aspect), so I had to use lower resolutions to lessen the effect temporarily until I fixed it. However, I did get rid of the problem after playing around (but it was not easy), and then magically and mysteriously I could suddenly use 1080p mode natively again with no border.

I would do the following:

1) Unhook the projector to the HTPC.
2) Do a factory reset on the PJ.
2) Boot the HTPC to an LCD monitor, re-install the video driver and get everything setup correctly before hooking back to the projector.
3) Use a different HDMI cable to the PJ
4) Click SVIDEO input on the projector, set Overscan to 0 and ensure Auto Keystone is OFF (because Overscan can only be set in SVIDEO or similar modes)
5) Go back to HDMI mode before re-hooking the HTPC up, ensure ASPECT is Auto
6) Hook the HTPC while projector is on, but PC is off
7) Boot the PC

Even the above is not guaranteed to solve it, but it might. Another idea is to go into the Service Menu Mode and change the HDMI cable length to medium or long (if it is set to short).
post #617 of 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by plplplpl View Post

[*]The Pro8200 does indeed seem a bit fuzzier than my X10, which may be the pixel mapping issue raised here. It's not horrible, and for me not quite a deal-breaker (although I can imagine it might be for some)[/list]

Make sure you focus the screen at 1/3rd the width. Meaning divide the screen into 3 imaginary sections, and use the focus dial to ensure where the first 1/3 section ends is the most focused point. So for a 9' wide screen, you'd want your most focused point to be in the vertical center at about 3 feet from the left of the edge of the screen.

I think instead of calling the Pro8200 a pixel mapping issue, it might ALMOST be better to refer to it as a border mapping issue, because it does not appear to have a visible affect to the entire screen (depending on what colors you are displaying). As far as how good could it be with this minor issue fixed, well if you look at the text on the built-in menu from the Pro8200, you can see the potential of how sharp the text can be. The menu text is near-perfect (just a tiny tiny bit of CA, but almost perfect). So yes, if this PJ did not have the minor border mapping issue, it would be one of the sharpest PJ's under $2000.
post #618 of 1081
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Try troubleshooting it while passing it a pure 1920x1080 resolution, unless you want the lower resolution for increased gaming performance?
Then maybe try 1280x720 or 1280x800.

I have had this black border issue before EVEN when passing a native 1080p signal, as it's one of those weird problems where you have to play around with things and the solution doesn't always make sense. Auto Aspect mode is the correct one for most HTPC's, so keep it in that setting for now while you play around with it. It's some kind of "memorized bug" or negotiation bug between the PJ and VC. Try a different HDMI cable, reinstall the video card driver, and you may need to get a different video card for the HTPC worst case. It's very doubtfully the projector. I don't remember what fixed it exactly, but I did multiple things until it resolved. It was creating a huge border around the screen just like yours was (and I recall the same "almost fixed" results when changing to 1600x900 and 16:9 aspect), so I had to use lower resolutions to lessen the effect temporarily until I fixed it. However, I did get rid of the problem after playing around (but it was not easy), and then magically and mysteriously I could suddenly use 1080p mode natively again with no border.

I would do the following:

1) Unhook the projector to the HTPC.
2) Do a factory reset on the PJ.
2) Boot the HTPC to an LCD monitor, re-install the video driver and get everything setup correctly before hooking back to the projector.
3) Use a different HDMI cable to the PJ
4) Click SVIDEO input on the projector, set Overscan to 0 and ensure Auto Keystone is OFF (because Overscan can only be set in SVIDEO or similar modes)
5) Go back to HDMI mode before re-hooking the HTPC up, ensure ASPECT is Auto
6) Hook the HTPC while projector is on, but PC is off
7) Boot the PC

Even the above is not guaranteed to solve it, but it might. Another idea is to go into the Service Menu Mode and change the HDMI cable length to medium or long (if it is set to short).

I'm not a gamer, so that's not a motivation to lower the resolution for me. However, my HTPC on my projector is central to my digital lifestyle, so in addition to home entertainment, it's used for a lot of PC-centric tasks and so it has to be readable from the so-called 10-foot UI.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I tried them, but the result is the same so far. I updated the video drivers and everything, but I'm really beginning to believe the inability to do 1080p / 1360x768 over HDMI is a limitation of the Pro8200, because 1360x768 only shows up as an option under the PC heading (perhaps only over VGA), whereas it did show up, with the same video card, under the HD heading when hooked up to my X10, and furthermore it was listed as 1080p / 1360x768.

I even checked the service menu (AKA Engineering Mode?). By the way, the method posted on page 5 and 6 of getting into the service menu didn't work for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reebok View Post

Open the Main menu and move the color bar to “Information” item, and then move down the color bar to “Equivalent Lamp Hours” item, press the direction key following the actions below:
Right once, left twice, right once; then you will enter the Engineering Mode.

A little trial and error revealed that I could do it thus:

Quote:


Open the Main menu and move the color bar to “Information” item, and then move down the color bar to “Equivalent Lamp Hours” item, press the direction key following the actions below:

Right once; then you will enter the Engineering Mode.

  • My firmware version, according to this, is: 2.30-0.03.
  • The HDMI cable is set to Middle. My HDMI cable is 10 feet long.

That being said, I'm kind of getting to like 1080p / 1600x900 for most daily HTPC functions. There's a bit more real estate on the desktop and now that I've upped the font in Windows to 120 DPI and set a default minimum font size of 16 in Firefox, it's copacetic. I've set Windows Media Center to use 1080i when it's fullscreen, for OTA HDTV, and the Pro8200 automatically switches to the equivalent 1080i / 1920x1080, then automatically returns to 1080p / 1600x900 when I leave fullscreen in WMC or close it. I also manually bump the video card's resolution up to 1080p / 1920x1080 when watching a Blu-ray or other 1080p video.

In a nutshell, I'm pretty happy now.

Just a few mild annoyances / lingering questions:
  • The much bemoaned loss of Eco Mode whenever you change the Color Mode.
  • Is the filter cover (pages 6 & 8 of the manual) included, or is it an optional accessory?
  • DCR (Dynamic Contrast Ratio) is off by default in my settings. The manual says turning this on, "will impact lamp life and system noise performance," presumably because when it's on, Eco Mode is no longer available. Would there be any advantage to using DCR, perhaps for richer blacks?
post #619 of 1081
Just purchased a Pro8200 to replace an Infocus IN72. Aside from it being bright (to bright at night) even after making adjustments. The picture does not seem any better than the IN72. It actually may be worst. Also it has very faint vertical lines. If I increase the size of the picture the lines seem to go away. If I make it fit the 93" screen it has the lines. I do have some ambiant light but with a newer bulb the IN72 was great. I spoke with a tech at viewsonic and they said to exchange it. The replacement does the same thing. I have only had Infocus projectors (X1, SP4805 and IN72) and though I had plenty of problems (color wheel noise, flicker, etc.) never really had picture quality issues. Also with the Pro8200 every few seconds a thin horizontal line randomly pops up in the picture, could pop up in the middle , top, bottom, etc. happens with all sources connected with HDMI. Could it be the wire?

93" da lite silver high gain screen.
semi controllable ambiant light.
13'9" to front of projector to screen
Dish network hopper connected with 40' HDMI
Blu ray HDMI
Dish Pal HDMI
post #620 of 1081
I see you are using 40 foot hdmi cable. You might as trouble-shooting move the blue ray player close to pro8200 and use hdmi that came with pro8200. If everything looks Awesome, then you know your Pro8200 works.
The other way that could work is go into engineering mode and change cable length to "long", the default is "middle".



Open the Main menu and move the color bar to “Information” item, and then move down the color bar to “Equivalent Lamp Hours” item, press the direction key following the actions below:
Right once, left twice, right once; then you will enter the Engineering Mode.

Originally Posted by reebok
post #621 of 1081
I also need to mention that the faint vertical lines (almost like vertical mini blinds) are on the splash screen and on the menu display. After installing a lower gain screen the vertical lines don't seem to be noticeable.

I will try moving the BR player closer with a shorter HDMI wire to check the horz line issue. They flash in intermittently every 10 to 30 seconds. It happens so fast that my Dad can't see them at all...

Thanks.
Edited by RaceRoc - 6/6/12 at 10:46am
post #622 of 1081
Are you saying without any cables attached to pro8200 you see the vertical lines? In splash screen? Remove all cables and see if you see vertical lines as TEST.
Maybe it's your power socket. As test move to another room and put pro8200 on table and from 7 or 8 feet back, shine on wall or screen. I don't believe any of the rest of us ever get vertical lines like you are getting. If you got that with 2 pro8200's, I think something is wrong with your room or cables or something. So think of trouble-shooting things to try to narrow it down. Different room, different sources, different cables,etc. If you had trouble with just 1 pro8200 then maybe it would be pro8200, but not if 2 had the same problem. If there was a defect like that, pro-reviews and user reviews would have mentioned it. You will figure it out. Maybe one of the other guys can offer suggestions too. I forgot to ask, did you buy a NEW pro8200 or did you buy refurb? If NEW, your pro8200 should KICK ASS and be AWESOME. biggrin.gif
Your other projectors were low def projectors, you just bought a 1080p PJ and it should kick the ass of all 3 of your other projectors combined. biggrin.gif Just saying. smile.gif
If you have Blue-ray movie, you should see it the way it's suppose to be seen and not as 800x600 native as your other projectors. If your sources are low def then it will not look that good on pro8200, but if your source material is HIGH DEF, it should blow you away.
Edited by rgtaa - 6/6/12 at 11:15am
post #623 of 1081
plplplpl
I too was used to 720p for a number of years and when I first went to 1080p mode the icons were tiny, fonts were tiny, and it sucked. I learned how to make the icons big, fonts big, and other stuff big so it looked like my 720p screen used to look. Once you get used to pc in 1080p and figure out how to make everything "perfect" for you, you should love it. I do. Movies and other stuff works and you can make more windows on screen. Many times with my pro8200, I have lower resolution movie in smaller window around 42 inch and then surf the web on side. With higher resolution movies I can make window bigger or go full screen.
post #624 of 1081
I did some even more extensive testing of the Pro8200's pixel border issue. I have overall somewhat good news on the Pro8200. The issue as I partially suspected is not a full blown pixel mapping problem, but I would suggest is most likely rather an undefeatable edge enhancement (probably unintentional by a processing bug in the firmware). This can still cause the same problem that a pixel mapping issue causes (and even cause pixel mapping tests to fail), but the good news is that it won't be seen everywhere in the image.

Here we can see the effects of the issue on the Eagle's Wing. The Viewsonic's Sharpness is set to 0. The difference in sharpness between the Eagle's feathers is the only place you can notice. Keep in mind the tip of the feathers are only 2 pixels wide, and that my JVC I have is sharper than a normal JVC (it is near perfect convergence). The actual head, eye, feet it is not really noticeable. Also, the sharpness of text is fairly close between these two projectors, I used the eagle's feathers because that is where the pixel mapping was most obvious. It is not as bad as it appears though, most of the time the difference in sharpness between the two projectors is fairly slim except a few very specific shots. The picture was taken about 2-4 inches from the screen.

JVC RS-45 on bottom right, Viewsonic Higher Up Overlapped (LOOK at TIP of Eagle's Wing / Feathers)
556

The reason I believe it is an edge enhancing thing (even with sharpness at 0) is because the problem does not appear with all colors or frequencies, and it also only appears at edges where high-contrast colors meet. I proved this by overlapping certain images on the desktop.

The Pro8200 is therefore SOMETIMES ALMOST as sharp as the JVC RS-45 on text. However, the JVC's ridiculously high contrast helps give the JVC a slightly sharper look even in situations that the edge enhancer of the Viewsonic isn't doing anything. The Pro8200 might be a perfect candidate for the Darby Darblet Sharpness Enhancer, but I have not tried one yet.

Also it should be noted that I've owned more than 10 projectors (including a Mits hc4000 DLP), and overall the Viewsonic is still sharper than EVERY LCD I've ever owned, including the Epson 8500ub and the Sanyo z4000. You also have to realize how close to the screen I took the picture, the difference would not be NEARLY this visible at normal seating distances (only slightly visible).
Edited by coderguy - 9/14/12 at 10:31pm
post #625 of 1081
To keep this fair, here is a picture of text. In this case, the Viewsonic actually appears sharper, but it's partly an optical illusion because of the overlay of the colors. What I can tell you though, is in person the 2 projector's are pretty much equal on this shot as far as how the text sharpness looks from seating distance. Sometimes the JVC does look sharper even on text (but definitely not always, and text is often close).

So, the Viewsonic can appear as sharp as the JVC in some cases on text, as it just depends on the border and colors. Keep in mind that these images were taken so close up, that they do not really look like this in person. I did several more of these overalpped tests, and this is how I have concluded the Viewsonic's pixel mapping issue is a border issue effect, not an entire mapping issue across the screen.

In this case, the Viewsonic's pixel issue is having ZERO effect to perceivable sharpness (so it will all depend on the shape of the item, color, and mix).

JVC on Left, Viewsonic on Right

393

I likely provided more information than anyone probably cares to see, but I would not consider the Viewsonic's sharpness a major issue or a reason for MOST NOT to buy this projector, unless someone was a sharpness junkie and just wanted a Benq w1200.
Edited by coderguy - 6/7/12 at 6:44pm
post #626 of 1081
Thanks. I appreciate all the effort and information. I like all the sharpness I can get, but I'd rather sacrifice a bit of it for better gaming performance compared to the 1200.
post #627 of 1081
I believe Coderguy was saying that the sharpness is towards the top of the pack in this price point. The w1200 is 400 dollars more and is good for movies but not gaming or fast sports, from what I understand. The pro8200 is cheaper and 3 year warranty with 1 year on bulb is the best of the pack. I rather have a PJ that does it all, portable/gaming/speakers/bright/sharp/sports/blueray than a model that just does some good and some BAD. And I like keeping 400 dollars or more in my pocket if the gain is tiny. In 2 years I'll get another cheaper model like the pro8200 that will be 4x better than the 2,000 dollar ones today, right?
post #628 of 1081
That's basically what I was saying, is that text sharpness is still very close to the JVC and better than most others in this price range. The differences in sharpness are suddle but can be noted in video.
Edited by coderguy - 9/14/12 at 10:22pm
post #629 of 1081
I mean that is unblelievable , right? That the pro8200 holds it's own against many PJ's overall at this price point. Considering you bought a refurb for around 400 dollars , it is amazing really. The Pro8200 does it all, I guess that was my viewpoint and the viewpoint of Art too, he gave it tie second place because it was a weird and very cool cross-over projector. It's in the "whole" package that makes it so awesome.

3 year warranty with 1 year on bulb
Light Cannon
Excellent color after 500 hours on bulb
4,000-6,000 bulb life with cheap bulb replacement
low lag (perfect for gaming)
Portable and comes with carrying case
Sharp
Tons of inputs and outputs , even mic input
super low rainbow effect compared to all of them
20 watt (10x2) built in speakers
Excellent for school/business/ porch/home theater/ locations.

So for me it's the whole package that makes it a bargain, and the fact that it's the cheapest or one of the cheapest 1080p around. It sort of is a "sleeper" because everybody talks about epson 8350 which is 400 dollars more expensive because it has LENS Shift . But so many people have bulb problems , with stated bulb life of 4,000 hours but people are saying how lucky they are if they can get 1,000 hours on bulb that is very expensive to replace. And dust blups, conversance problems, etc ... if you read reviews and forum. And the 8350 is Heavy, Big, no internal speakers, not portable. Why is that the run away hit and the pro8200 a sleeper. Just for LENS SHIFT? Epson support is awesome, and almost everybody loves their support, they just wish quality control was better.

I'm not saying the pro8200 is the brightest, or the blackest-black, or other things people could point to, but as a whole, putting it all together , it is the best bang for the buck and best take anywhere , do everything PJ around in 1080p, at least for me.
Edited by rgtaa - 6/12/12 at 10:10am
post #630 of 1081
I agree, I was worried after I saw my sharpness tests, but in reality that Eagle Wing was blown up 10x or even more to show the FLAW, so it was kind of like trying to find a BABY FLEA on a DOG.

In real world viewing of video, and MOST of the time, the Viewsonic is just as sharp as any other projector I've seen. I AM A sharpness junkie to the point of OCD. So if I can be 90% happy with the VS's sharpness in HTPC (and near 100% happy in VIDEO), then I think most can. I think the reason it is just as sharp most of the time is because as I noted in the test, it was only on CERTAIN colors where the pixel effect could be easily visibly seen even close-up, much less from seating distance.

The CONTRAST is also really good for the brightness. It is the brightest projector I have ever seen that can do near 2000:1 (or easily 1500:1 calibrated) that costs less than $4000. The Benq w1200 comes close in brightness, but it's not quite there. Even after 2000 hours on my lamp, the color is still REALLY REALLY accurate, which is a suprise. I leave the projector on all the time (once left it on almost 3 full days by accident).

The Viewsonic is my TV and my abused machine basically, the JVC is only mainly used on movies. The Viewsonic has 2000 hours and the JVC has around 400 smile.gif

I really would like to test an Acer with the pixel mapping problem against it, just to see if the Acer has a slightly more serious issue that does more than just affect borders of objects (but I cannot be certain).
Edited by coderguy - 6/23/12 at 10:20pm
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