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My Chase Home Theater 18.T Experience - Page 18  

post #511 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

A pm eh......... Care to enlighten us all on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I'm interested too

Sorry guys, it's not that great. But I'm not going to repeat it, since it was not first hand info, not second hand info, gosh, it might not even be third hand.

It's not that big of a deal anyway, others seem to have picked it up from the postings, or perhaps other PM's.

It's really time for this thread to end. As Craig said there are two sides to every story. And there more going on than any one of us know. Josh got his money back, and Craig said he make sure Josh gets the shipping costs back. Finally Craig says there are improvements coming to the subs because of this.

As Dave of Ascend Acoustics like to close,
Good sound to you.

Jeff
post #512 of 630
For what it's worth here's my experience / wall of text as a Chase Home Theater customer:

After looking at some competing subs that could fill my 1500 cubic foot room I decided to order the CS 10.2 and called Chase Home Theater to ask a few questions on placement in my room. I spoke with Jack (I think?) on the phone and he was knowledgeable and answered all my questions with zero pressure to make a sale.

I live in California and shipping was pretty quick. The sub came well packed but that didn't stop some rough handling of the package to break off all but one of the pegs that attach to both the grills. I wasn't too worried about this though as I had read about this happening and Craig had always taken care of the problem very quickly.

As soon as I hooked it up, calibrated it, and ran it through it's paces I noticed that the sub would instantly shut off during peak moments (shotgun blasts, impacts, etc). I posted about that here on the forum and Craig was quick to respond in PMs that he would call me and help me troubleshoot.

I spoke with Craig for about 45 minutes and long story short he told me to change the setting on the gain knob, re-calibrate it, and try again. I did to the same results as before so I pm'd Craig and he agreed that this shouldn't be happening and said he would call Dayton about the problem. I asked him what my options were and he said I could send the amp to Dayton for repair, Dayton could send me an amp, or I could send the sub back to him and he would credit me shipping and purchase price towards an 18.1 series 1 at a reduced price.

At first I told Craig that I wasn't really interested in an 18.1 and that I didn't want to deal with the hassle of shipping an amp back and forth to Dayton on a new item and that I just wanted to RMA it. He informed me that I should head back to official channels for that process and that I am covered under the 30 day audition and would only be out my shipping. Cost to ship to me was $45 and cost to ship back is about $70.

I wasn't happy with the idea of losing over a hundred dollars on a defective product but the 18.1 had been getting some good forum reviews and i was effectively adding the shipping price to any other brand of sub I was going to buy which really hurt my bang for buck. I waffled between an Outlaw LFM1-EX and an 18.1 upgrade and after a day of deliberation I decided to take the upgrade to an 18.1.

Right after I ordered I saw this thread and the way Craig had handled Josh's situation and it didn't really sit right with me. It also made me re-visit my own experience with trying to return an item and I realized that some warning lights should have gone off. Eventually I decided that I had already gambled on this new company once and received a defective item and I wasn't going to do it again.

I sent the sales department an email canceling my sale and asking for more information on the RMA process. I haven't heard back yet (because of the holidays I'm sure) but I'm hoping this will be a fairly painless process. In the mean time I put in an order for an Outlaw LFM1-EX and I'm excited to see what it can do.

For those wondering on the build quality and sound here are my thoughts and a short personal background to put them in context:

I'm a producer/editor at a major broadcast television network so while I am a bit of a noobie in setting up my own personal home theater I do spend a lot of my time sitting in Pro Tools bays listening to and approving sound mixes for my projects. I'm not an audio specialist but I am well aware of what clean bass is and what it sounds like (some people thought this was the problem with my sub). So off to my thoughts on the CS 10.2...

Sound Quality: Very musical with tight bass. In a near-field location I was able to locate the sub but up close to my front speakers it completely disappears into my main speakers and you only know it's there when it needs to dig deep. It did a decent job giving the room a shake at lower volumes and I assume with a working amp it would provide some good clean kick at louder listening levels. In my opinion it actually sounded better with music than HT.

Build Quality: I knew what I was getting when I ordered it. It's an industrial sub with a pebbled black paint coat on it. It has a small imperfection in the finish where the original amp was going to be mounted at the top of the sub. After I got home today I pulled it out of the shipping box to see if the finish looked like Josh's and up close (very close) there are a few minor imperfections but from any reasonable viewing distance it just looks like a plain black box with a couple of drivers. In my opinion Josh's sub had some serious problems when it arrived to him. Mine did not.
post #513 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by ride525 View Post

.......It's really time for this thread to end.........

Gosh, right as I posted this.....someone posts about CHT Experience #2, The Sequel.
Guess I was wrong about time for the thread to end.......
post #514 of 630
I've come to AVS to research all of my home theater purchases so far and I definitely appreciate it when other people post their impressions of internet direct retailers. Is there some reason you don't care for that Ride?
post #515 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel187 View Post

I've come to AVS to research all of my home theater purchases so far and I definitely appreciate it when other people post their impressions of internet direct retailers. Is there some reason you don't care for that Ride?

Nope, that's fine, I like to see other's impressions too. I too use other's experiences to help me with my audio and years ago, video purchases. My last comment was after more than 500 posts, maybe this was about to end. I thought is was rather ironic, that you happened to post your experiences with CHT right as I posted my thoughts, and I saw it starting up again. Thus, my somewhat, tongue-in-cheek "eek" smiley.

Actually, hopefully posting here will help you get what you want CHT to do for you.
post #516 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridapoolboy View Post

I would have fired them up also, just because they were already there. As far as appearance, if all that was wrong was those weird feet then it shouldn't be an issue, they are shown on the website. Obvious manufacturing defects, on the other hand, should not be tolerated and the customer should not have to worry about high shipping costs. If, however, the customer refuses to accept replacements (without additional cost to him) then the company policy would prevail. Public exposure on AVS, however, changes everything.....

If those subs have the external amp, by not firing them up the amp is returned without being opened which means it's not an 'open box'. The weird feet are indeed shown on the website in a photo that is very much low-res and doesn't lend itself well to scaling. It could be easy to overlook.

Let's see what could've happened if company policy had not prevailed at the onset.

Josh: I got these subs and they're really messed up. There's this and that wrong. Just look at the pics.
CHT: Wow. I'm really sorry. How can I make it right for you?
Josh: I just want my money back.
CHT: I can do that but I can also do this or that or the other too at no cost to you.
Josh: No, I just don't feel comfortable after seeing the overall quality. I'd rather just call it a day.
CHT: NP. We'll refund all your monies including the s/h and send you a label so that you can return the products to us.
Josh: Thanks very much.
CHT: NP. We take matters of quality very seriously and don't believe the customer should incur any charges because we failed. We'll look into this and make the necessary changes. I hope you'll consider CHT in the future.
Josh: Thanks. Bye.

If that had happened and it became public knowledge, CHT comes out ahead. Good will is created. Pro customer attitude is acknowledged.

Of course, there are benefits to the way it actually turned out. There is an acknowledgement that there are quality problems. Also problems with nail or brad holes as well as the ply showing through. Finish application is now seen as substandard since all existing subs are now defined as B stock. Finish will improve CHT has said. Hopefully on their speakers too. Perhaps this will lead to other improvements. Unfortunately, everyone who has bought the product now realizes they've got B stock.
post #517 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

If those subs have the external amp, by not firing them up the amp is returned without being opened which means it's not an 'open box'. The weird feet are indeed shown on the website in a photo that is very much low-res and doesn't lend itself well to scaling. It could be easy to overlook.

Let's see what could've happened if company policy had not prevailed at the onset.

Josh: I got these subs and they're really messed up. There's this and that wrong. Just look at the pics.
CHT: Wow. I'm really sorry. How can I make it right for you?
Josh: I just want my money back.
CHT: I can do that but I can also do this or that or the other too at no cost to you.
Josh: No, I just don't feel comfortable after seeing the overall quality. I'd rather just call it a day.
CHT: NP. We'll refund all your monies including the s/h and send you a label so that you can return the products to us.
Josh: Thanks very much.
CHT: NP. We take matters of quality very seriously and don't believe the customer should incur any charges because we failed. We'll look into this and make the necessary changes. I hope you'll consider CHT in the future.
Josh: Thanks. Bye.

If that had happened and it became public knowledge, CHT comes out ahead. Good will is created. Pro customer attitude is acknowledged.

Of course, there are benefits to the way it actually turned out. There is an acknowledgement that there are quality problems. Also problems with nail or brad holes as well as the ply showing through. Finish application is now seen as substandard since all existing subs are now defined as B stock. Finish will improve CHT has said. Hopefully on their speakers too. Perhaps this will lead to other improvements. Unfortunately, everyone who has bought the product now realizes they've got B stock.

Wow, what a thread. Well, it looks like you got what you wanted Chu. A customer complaint handled poorly by Craig that gets blown totally out of proportion by the so called "experts" here at AVS forum.

I just spent countless posts on another thread defending the fact that I get tons more enjoyment out of my CHT speakers than I did from my prior Paradigm Signatures. You and others on this thread pounded away incessantly trying to convince me that that couldn't be possible. So I know what you guys are all about. This thread is chock full of folks that have never seen nor owned the speaker in question. Where are all of the irate owners of this "horrible" product?? 500+ posts and the only owner's post is one of dismay(I believe it was Oldfart).

Doesn't it seem weird to anyone that there are no actual owners of CHT products in here? Why is that? It's because of the incessant attacks by the "experts" here whenever an owner has something good to say about CHT speakers. Most owner's are gunshy at this point and I can't blame them. They're home enjoying reference level sound and actually have some money left in their pockets. The fact is there are too many folks on this forum threatened by the fact that their megabucks "furniture grade" speakers might not sound as good as a set of speakers that cost 1/5 as much and look like they fell off the delivery truck. Elitist egoism is rampant here.

The fact is that the "experts" here could care less if anyone enjoys these speakers. That doesn't fit their agenda and they will pound away incessantly to prove their point. You must be an idiot in their eyes if you could enjoy listening to something that doesn't meet their standards to look at. It is elitism at its best.

Most folks who purchased these speakers were aware of the finish, its the reason a thread like this hasnt popped up already. This is not any "breaking news" to current owners. It's closer to a big yawn. So you guys can go ahead and stick your knives in Craig's back, but he has been nothing but honest with me and has dealt fairly with any issues I've had. I know first hand that there is a hidden agenda here to destroy CHT and I think the constant pounding away by the usual suspects in this thread has caused Craig to handle this situation poorly. If I didn't experience the attacks myself, I might look at this situation a bit differently.
post #518 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Wow, what a thread. Well, it looks like you got what you wanted Chu. A customer complaint handled poorly by Craig that gets blown totally out of proportion by the so called "experts" here at AVS forum.

I just spent countless posts on another thread defending the fact that I get tons more enjoyment out of my CHT speakers than I did from my prior Paradigm Signatures. You and others on this thread pounded away incessantly trying to convince me that that couldn't be possible. So I know what you guys are all about. This thread is chock full of folks that have never seen nor owned the speaker in question. Where are all of the irate owners of this "horrible" product?? 500+ posts and the only owner's post is one of dismay(I believe it was Oldfart).

Doesn't it seem weird to anyone that there are no actual owners of CHT products in here? Why is that? It's because of the incessant attacks by the "experts" here whenever an owner has something good to say about CHT speakers. Most owner's are gunshy at this point and I can't blame them. They're home enjoying reference level sound and actually have some money left in their pockets. The fact is there are too many folks on this forum threatened by the fact that their megabucks "furniture grade" speakers might not sound as good as a set of speakers that cost 1/5 as much and look like they fell off the delivery truck. Elitist egoism is rampant here.

The fact is that the "experts" here could care less if anyone enjoys these speakers. That doesn't fit there agenda and they will pound away incessantly to prove their point. You must be an idiot in their eyes if you could enjoy listening to something that doesn't meet their standards to look at. It is elitism at its best.

Most folks who purchased these speakers were aware of the finish, its the reason a thread like this hasnt popped up already. This is not any "breaking news" to current owners. It's closer to a big yawn. So you guys can go ahead and stick your knives in Craig's back, but he has been nothing but honest with me and has dealt fairly with any issues I've had. I know first hand that there is a hidden agenda here to destroy CHT and I think the constant pounding away by the usual suspects in this thread has caused Craig to handle this situation poorly. If I didn't experience the attacks myself, I might look at this situation a bit differently.

First of all, no one has said they're an expert on anything.

Second, I for one, don't care about the condition that Josh received his CHT sub in.

The reason this thread blew up was Craig's poor customer service and basically calling the purchaser a liar among other things. Apparently you either didn't read the whole thread, are trying to score brownie points with Craig or you completely missed the whole point of the thread.

Craig stated he's going to fix the so called issues with QC, and change finish. My hats off to him, but again, the reason this thread got the way it is, is because of the way it was handled by a business owner. Hindsight is 20/20 and unfortunately quite a bit of damage has been done. However, for the way Craig portrayed HIMSELF in this thread, I think it was bound to happen.

The other thing that I want to add, is that this is probably Craigs biggest avenue for generating business, and he allowed himself to engage in a he said/she said battle in public. This is something that won't go away, and I feel bad for the guy, but it's something that should have been thought about before it happened.
post #519 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Sometimes some people are just out to hurt someone or his business...

I'm Grandarf the Magnificent, and I fully endorse this message.

Yep.
post #520 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Wow, what a thread. Well, it looks like you got what you wanted Chu. A customer complaint handled poorly by Craig that gets blown totally out of proportion by the so called "experts" here at AVS forum.

I just spent countless posts on another thread defending the fact that I get tons more enjoyment out of my CHT speakers than I did from my prior Paradigm Signatures. You and others on this thread pounded away incessantly trying to convince me that that couldn't be possible. So I know what you guys are all about. This thread is chock full of folks that have never seen nor owned the speaker in question. Where are all of the irate owners of this "horrible" product?? 500+ posts and the only owner's post is one of dismay(I believe it was Oldfart).

Doesn't it seem weird to anyone that there are no actual owners of CHT products in here? Why is that? It's because of the incessant attacks by the "experts" here whenever an owner has something good to say about CHT speakers. Most owner's are gunshy at this point and I can't blame them. They're home enjoying reference level sound and actually have some money left in their pockets. The fact is there are too many folks on this forum threatened by the fact that their megabucks "furniture grade" speakers might not sound as good as a set of speakers that cost 1/5 as much and look like they fell off the delivery truck. Elitist egoism is rampant here.

The fact is that the "experts" here could care less if anyone enjoys these speakers. That doesn't fit there agenda and they will pound away incessantly to prove their point. You must be an idiot in their eyes if you could enjoy listening to something that doesn't meet their standards to look at. It is elitism at its best.

Most folks who purchased these speakers were aware of the finish, its the reason a thread like this hasnt popped up already. This is not any "breaking news" to current owners. It's closer to a big yawn. So you guys can go ahead and stick your knives in Craig's back, but he has been nothing but honest with me and has dealt fairly with any issues I've had. I know first hand that there is a hidden agenda here to destroy CHT and I think the constant pounding away by the usual suspects in this thread has caused Craig to handle this situation poorly. If I didn't experience the attacks myself, I might look at this situation a bit differently.


I guess you have not seen the measurements and build that Zilch did as a challenge from Craig.

I have only one agenda. To make sure that the science behind speakers is atleast posted. Its 100% your choice if you care about it our not.

No knife in any back from me because Im upfront about anything I post and if someone has a disagreement I welcome them to post measurements and science to prove Im wrong.

Over the years I have seen one proven fact, what gets posted online from some of us gets traction and changes happen.

You really think CHT thought up the subwoofer design or the SHO-10 design all alone?? You should thank many discussions online for those products and since you are very happy maybe you should thank a guy like me for posting all about dynamics over and over on this forum. Without those discussions there wouldn't be exposure to the real issues in HT wrt speaker designs. The isn't any real original thought here.


Anyways, I will always continue posting what flaws exist in designs. If you really understand the intent behind these posts you would stop thinking its an attack and learn that I believe audio education is very, very important. Its okay not to read about it but I believe one post about important factors in speaker or subwoofer design is far more important that even 10 posts with highly subjective "I love this speaker" substance.

I do not need to own a product to post about its flaws, Flaws always exist in every speaker or sub built. There is a tons of science behind all these builds and owning it does not change that science. Its up to each individual to learn about them and choose those flaws are important to them. I have no reason to buy CHT products either, since I tend to spend 10x more money using other products already.

I reverse that owning question. What point of reference do CHT owners have to think they are incredible products?? What else have CHT owners owned? As much as someone thinks we shouldn't comment if we do not own it. I always wonder what the point of reference is from those who own it and brag about its performance online?
post #521 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I guess you have not seen the measurements and build that Zilch did as a challenge from Craig.

I have only one agenda. To make sure that the science behind speakers is atleast posted. Its 100% your choice if you care about it our not.

No knife in any back from me because Im upfront about anything I post and if someone has a disagreement I welcome them to post measurements and science to prove Im wrong.

Over the years I have seen one proven fact, what gets posted online from some of us gets traction and changes happen.

You really think CHT thought up the subwoofer design or the SHO-10 design all alone?? You should thank many discussions online for those products and since you are very happy maybe you should thank a guy like me for posting all about dynamics over and over on this forum. Without those discussions there wouldn't be exposure to the real issues in HT wrt speaker designs. The isn't any real original thought here.


Anyways, I will always continue posting what flaws exist in designs. If you really understand the intent behind these posts you would stop thinking its an attack and learn that I believe audio education is very, very important. Its okay not to read about it but I believe one post about important factors in speaker or subwoofer design is far more important that even 10 posts with highly subjective "I love this speaker" substance.

I do not need to own a product to post about its flaws, Flaws always exist in every speaker or sub built. There is a tons of science behind all these builds and owning it does not change that science. Its up to each individual to learn about them and choose those flaws are important to them. I have no reason to buy CHT products either, since I tend to spend 10x more money using other products already.

I reverse that owning question. What point of reference do CHT owners have to think they are incredible products?? What else have CHT owners owned? As much as someone thinks we shouldn't comment if we do not own it. I always wonder what the point of reference is from those who own it and brag about its performance online?


Can you point me to the Zilch build/thread? Thanks.
post #522 of 630
Here is the MSRP $150 speaker offered up to the challenge from Craig

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...28#post1695728

You would have to PM Zilch about the rest. All measurements/discussion with that waveguide are on Techtak. Zilch is an expert DIY designer. I posted a long time about about the inherent flaws in them (NOTE: they can still sound good with inherent flaws). Zilch being the ultimate measurement guy picked up the waveguides and measured. CHT speakers didnt measured because CHT did want to send them to Zilch.

Rumor now has Zilch helping Craig improve his speaker designs.
post #523 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepen View Post

Can you point me to the Zilch build/thread? Thanks.

I would like to check that out as well....
post #524 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldfart View Post

I am saddened and somewhat confused with this thread, since my experience with CHT is so much at odds with Josh's.
I am thrilled with the performance of my SHO-10s (combined with dual Epik Sentinels), and if the SHO-10s do not have a fine furniture finish, they are still quite acceptable in my living room. I would buy them again, have recommended them to others, and if I had the room, I would buy CHT subs.

Up till this thread, this was the typical impression of CHT speakers. Joshko's speakers appeared a little worse than typical, and the pictures were clearly taken to put them in the worst light possible. I think there needs to be a little balance in this thread. I don't think this was handled well by Craig, but the piling on by the usual instigators is pitiful but expected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I guess you have not seen the measurements and build that Zilch did as a challenge from Craig.

I have only one agenda. To make sure that the science behind speakers is atleast posted. Its 100% your choice if you care about it our not.

No knife in any back from me because Im upfront about anything I post and if someone has a disagreement I welcome them to post measurements and science to prove Im wrong.

Over the years I have seen one proven fact, what gets posted online from some of us gets traction and changes happen.

You really think CHT thought up the subwoofer design or the SHO-10 design all alone?? You should thank many discussions online for those products and since you are very happy maybe you should thank a guy like me for posting all about dynamics over and over on this forum. Without those discussions there wouldn't be exposure to the real issues in HT wrt speaker designs. The isn't any real original thought here.


Anyways, I will always continue posting what flaws exist in designs. If you really understand the intent behind these posts you would stop thinking its an attack and learn that I believe audio education is very, very important. Its okay not to read about it but I believe one post about important factors in speaker or subwoofer design is far more important that even 10 posts with highly subjective "I love this speaker" substance.

I do not need to own a product to post about its flaws, Flaws always exist in every speaker or sub built. There is a tons of science behind all these builds and owning it does not change that science. Its up to each individual to learn about them and choose those flaws are important to them. I have no reason to buy CHT products either, since I tend to spend 10x more money using other products already.

I reverse that owning question. What point of reference do CHT owners have to think they are incredible products?? What else have CHT owners owned? As much as someone thinks we shouldn't comment if we do not own it. I always wonder what the point of reference is from those who own it and brag about its performance online?

Actually I did see the build and measurements by Zilch. You ask what my point of reference is as if you don't know. I'll repeat it for the umpteenth time. I owned Paradigm Signature speakers. A well respected speaker line in the audio world. I've listened to many brands while auditioning speakers. As I've said ad nauseum in other threads, overall I prefer the CHT's over the Paradigms, flaws and all, and not just at reference volume.
What's wrong with that point of reference? Does my point of reference need to be a Geddes design before I can possibly have the frame of reference to judge a $350.00 speaker? What is YOUR reference Penn. For goodness sakes, you've never even heard a Geddes, yet it is at the pinnacle of speaker design. So how are you to judge if you've never heard the best?

It's not that I don't appreciate discussing speaker design, but the knee jerk reaction you and others have when someone says a CHT speaker sounds good is beyond any normalcy. Your condescending attitude and implication that Ive never heard a good speaker is elitist and plain wrong.
post #525 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Here is the MSRP $150 speaker offered up to the challenge from Craig

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...28#post1695728

You would have to PM Zilch about the rest. All measurements/discussion with that waveguide are on Techtak. Zilch is an expert DIY designer. I posted a long time about about the inherent flaws in them (NOTE: they can still sound good with inherent flaws). Zilch being the ultimate measurement guy picked up the waveguides and measured. CHT speakers didnt measured because CHT did want to send them to Zilch.

Rumor now has Zilch helping Craig improve his speaker designs.

I'm building my own variation of this, using CSW Model 6 speakers. I gotta say, for budget speakers that cost $100/pair on sale the fit and finish on these is fine. I'll call them Pro-8s!
post #526 of 630
This whole thing seems to have been blown out a little too far. First of all, if I ordered a product that got repeated positive reviews and I get one and it's not good, I would never think the unit as a whole is a piece of junk, I would just figure I got a faulty unit because it DOES happen, even major car companies have an occasional lemon that slips past inspection. It's just human error, it cannot be perfect everytime. I have a CS18.1 and it's an amazing sub. I love it. I've owned SVS and HSU and this product kills both that i've owned. I knew going in that the finish was going to be a little "rustic" as someone stated earlier. Rustic is a perfect word because it's exactly what it is but that doesn't bother me, as long as it sounds good I could really care less what it looks like. It could be painted Magenta and I couldn't give two craps, hell my wife would like it even more. Everyone said that the finish is a little rustic so I knew that going in. It sounds like the OP didn't do enough research before he bought the sub because his reaction was almost like he thought he was getting a PB13-Ultra in a mirror finish or something. I already knew the feet looked a little funny by reading other peoples reviews and once again the OP would have known that by doing more research. I work in customer service everyday and when a company states their return policy, i'm sorry people but you HAVE to follow it. It's just life, if all companys had no return policies than 1/2 of the small businesses in America would be out of business because they would have to take back all the items people broke, didn't want after 30/60 days, etc. To me, the OP got freaked out because of a rustic finish and was so upset that he just wanted to subs out of his sight instead of reasoning with craig which it looks like craig tried to do. As far as the dustcap leaking air, I highly doubt that since I have one and the thing is rock solid and I also doubt that a faulty dustcap would get by inspection but maybe it did, who knows. Posting anger-laden stories like the OP did should be banned from this forum because this forum generates tons of business for ID sub companies and if you have a matter with a product it should be handled behind closed doors appropriatly. This one story could honestly make or break a very small business like CHT which isn't fair because this is the first poor review of a CHT product that i've seen on here. Lots of people love their CHT subs and would love to see this company get bigger and bigger because their stuff is that good. Some people just take things much more personally than other and this is the OPs case I feel here. Words of wisdom: Look at every company policy before you decide to buy something this big and expensive because errors do occur and you need to act accordingly.
post #527 of 630
Wow.
post #528 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimetera413 View Post

This whole thing seems to have been blown out a little too far. First of all, if I ordered a product that got repeated positive reviews and I get one and it's not good, I would never think the unit as a whole is a piece of junk, I would just figure I got a faulty unit because it DOES happen, even major car companies have an occasional lemon that slips past inspection. It's just human error, it cannot be perfect everytime. I have a CS18.1 and it's an amazing sub. I love it. I've owned SVS and HSU and this product kills both that i've owned. I knew going in that the finish was going to be a little "rustic" as someone stated earlier. Rustic is a perfect word because it's exactly what it is but that doesn't bother me, as long as it sounds good I could really care less what it looks like. It could be painted Magenta and I couldn't give two craps, hell my wife would like it even more. Everyone said that the finish is a little rustic so I knew that going in. It sounds like the OP didn't do enough research before he bought the sub because his reaction was almost like he thought he was getting a PB13-Ultra in a mirror finish or something. I already knew the feet looked a little funny by reading other peoples reviews and once again the OP would have known that by doing more research. I work in customer service everyday and when a company states their return policy, i'm sorry people but you HAVE to follow it. It's just life, if all companys had no return policies than 1/2 of the small businesses in America would be out of business because they would have to take back all the items people broke, didn't want after 30/60 days, etc. To me, the OP got freaked out because of a rustic finish and was so upset that he just wanted to subs out of his sight instead of reasoning with craig which it looks like craig tried to do. As far as the dustcap leaking air, I highly doubt that since I have one and the thing is rock solid and I also doubt that a faulty dustcap would get by inspection but maybe it did, who knows. Posting anger-laden stories like the OP did should be banned from this forum because this forum generates tons of business for ID sub companies and if you have a matter with a product it should be handled behind closed doors appropriatly. This one story could honestly make or break a very small business like CHT which isn't fair because this is the first poor review of a CHT product that i've seen on here. Lots of people love their CHT subs and would love to see this company get bigger and bigger because their stuff is that good. Some people just take things much more personally than other and this is the OPs case I feel here. Words of wisdom: Look at every company policy before you decide to buy something this big and expensive because errors do occur and you need to act accordingly.

The OP first contacted CHT on 11/23 - he did not post on here until 12/23 so Craig had ONE MONTH to satisfy the customer before the you know what hit the fan

For you to say "Posting anger-laden stories like the OP did should be banned from this forum because this forum generates tons of business for ID sub companies and if you have a matter with a product it should be handled behind closed doors appropriatly."

The OP attempted to handle it behind closed doors but got NO SATISFACTION from Craig until he posted his story here!!

For you to say "This one story could honestly make or break a very small business like CHT which isn't fair because this is the first poor review of a CHT product that i've seen on here."

Perhaps you haven't read the Pro10/Sho10 thread where people were complaining about the poor quality of the speaker enclosures, problems with the fill, horns not flush against the cabinet, etc. As to breaking a very small business - if ONE story can break a company what does that say about the company in question?

If this HAD been handled properly by Craig in the ONE MONTH he had this story would NEVER had appeared here or the OP would have posted a glowing review of the excellent customer service he had received which could have generated even more busines for CHT!
post #529 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudda View Post

Fantastic post. Glad someone finally acknowledged this is a [i]pattern of behavior[i] rather than a rare exception. It's not isolated to TCA err.. CHT subs either. Remember the whole SHO-10 cloth grill fiasco? IIRC it went something like this:

Craig: Don't these grilles look great!
AVS'ers: Well, actually the horn baffle is pressing through the cloth.
Craig: No, it's not.
AVS'ers: Yes, it is. Look at the photos posted.
Craig: I'm looking right at my pair and they don't do this!!!
AVS'ers: Keep looking and call others who have them.
Craig: I've discovered some of the grills are distorted by the horn baffle. I've got new metal grilles that solve the problem.
Supporters: Oh, Craig you are sooooo awesome!

LMFAO.

Wow this stuff is so AV123 v.2.

MLS' crap has raised the bar for what ID companies neeed to do to win over the public. Fan boys are going to have a much tougher time shouting down those that question what they are being told.
post #530 of 630
Oh the photo's were taken to put the subs finish in the worst light were they? As opposed to what? A marketing glam shot would have been more appropriate? The OP's intent was to show shoddy workmanship and next to zero QA for a commercial product. Mission accomplished!

You are trying to spin this as some sort of conspiracy, hog wash. Craigsub has made this bed by his own actions. He has a LONG history of being banned here at AVS and other forum sites for being an argumentative hot head. Many of you new members are not aware of this and only look at his sub comparison data (controversial in and of itself).

Other's seem to not mind this level of build/component quality and I say good for them ... enjoy.

You have been prolific in you praise of CHT and it's products. That's fine, as is your defense of CHT. But there is much more to this story than what appears on the surface. It has to do with civility, honesty and good business practices.

BTW, what does your criticism of Penngray and how your speakers perform have to do with the topic of this thread? It is a thinly veiled attempt to discredit him. The best defense is a good offense ... isn't it?

Fire away doc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Up till this thread, this was the typical impression of CHT speakers. Joshko's speakers appeared a little worse than typical, and the pictures were clearly taken to put them in the worst light possible. I think there needs to be a little balance in this thread. I don't think this was handled well by Craig, but the piling on by the usual instigators is pitiful but expected.




Actually I did see the build and measurements by Zilch. You ask what my point of reference is as if you don't know. I'll repeat it for the umpteenth time. I owned Paradigm Signature speakers. A well respected speaker line in the audio world. I've listened to many brands while auditioning speakers. As I've said ad nauseum in other threads, overall I prefer the CHT's over the Paradigms, flaws and all, and not just at reference volume.
What's wrong with that point of reference? Does my point of reference need to be a Geddes design before I can possibly have the frame of reference to judge a $350.00 speaker? What is YOUR reference Penn. For goodness sakes, you've never even heard a Geddes, yet it is at the pinnacle of speaker design. So how are you to judge if you've never heard the best?

It's not that I don't appreciate discussing speaker design, but the knee jerk reaction you and others have when someone says a CHT speaker sounds good is beyond any normalcy. Your condescending attitude and implication that Ive never heard a good speaker is elitist and plain wrong.
post #531 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimetera413 View Post

This whole thing seems to have been blown out a little too far. First of all, if I ordered a product that got repeated positive reviews and I get one and it's not good, I would never think the unit as a whole is a piece of junk, I would just figure I got a faulty unit because it DOES happen, even major car companies have an occasional lemon that slips past inspection. It's just human error, it cannot be perfect everytime. I have a CS18.1 and it's an amazing sub. I love it. I've owned SVS and HSU and this product kills both that i've owned. I knew going in that the finish was going to be a little "rustic" as someone stated earlier. Rustic is a perfect word because it's exactly what it is but that doesn't bother me, as long as it sounds good I could really care less what it looks like. It could be painted Magenta and I couldn't give two craps, hell my wife would like it even more. Everyone said that the finish is a little rustic so I knew that going in. It sounds like the OP didn't do enough research before he bought the sub because his reaction was almost like he thought he was getting a PB13-Ultra in a mirror finish or something. I already knew the feet looked a little funny by reading other peoples reviews and once again the OP would have known that by doing more research. I work in customer service everyday and when a company states their return policy, i'm sorry people but you HAVE to follow it. It's just life, if all companys had no return policies than 1/2 of the small businesses in America would be out of business because they would have to take back all the items people broke, didn't want after 30/60 days, etc. To me, the OP got freaked out because of a rustic finish and was so upset that he just wanted to subs out of his sight instead of reasoning with craig which it looks like craig tried to do. As far as the dustcap leaking air, I highly doubt that since I have one and the thing is rock solid and I also doubt that a faulty dustcap would get by inspection but maybe it did, who knows. Posting anger-laden stories like the OP did should be banned from this forum because this forum generates tons of business for ID sub companies and if you have a matter with a product it should be handled behind closed doors appropriatly. This one story could honestly make or break a very small business like CHT which isn't fair because this is the first poor review of a CHT product that i've seen on here. Lots of people love their CHT subs and would love to see this company get bigger and bigger because their stuff is that good. Some people just take things much more personally than other and this is the OPs case I feel here. Words of wisdom: Look at every company policy before you decide to buy something this big and expensive because errors do occur and you need to act accordingly.

Which ones did you own?
post #532 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

You do realize that is how SVS got started, don't you? As did Hsu...in fact, Dr. Hsu helped the hobbyists that started SVS, and many DIYers back in the day. Seaton as well turned his passion into a job.

SVS knew they didn't know sub design and hired TC Sounds to design for them in the beginning. But they certainly did know customer service.
post #533 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Oh the photo's were taken to put the subs finish in the worst light were they? As opposed to what? A marketing glam shot would have been more appropriate? The OP's intent was to show shoddy workmanship and next to zero QA for a commercial product. Mission accomplished!

You are trying to spin this as some sort of conspiracy, hog wash. Craigsub has made this bed by his own actions. He has a LONG history of being banned here at AVS and other forum sites for being an argumentative hot head. Many of you new members are not aware of this and only look at his sub comparison data (controversial in and of itself).

Other's seem to not mind this level of build/component quality and I say good for them ... enjoy.

You have been prolific in you praise of CHT and it's products. That's fine, as is your defense of CHT. But there is much more to this story than what appears on the surface. It has to do with civility, honesty and good business practices.

BTW, what does your criticism of Penngray and how your speakers perform have to do with the topic of this thread? It is a thinly veiled attempt to discredit him. The best defense is a good offense ... isn't it?

Fire away doc?

Long time no talk RMK! I see you're still rocking the JTR equipment, is this a record for the amount of time you've kept a certain speaker/subs?
post #534 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Oh the photo's were taken to put the subs finish in the worst light were they? As opposed to what? A marketing glam shot would have been more appropriate? The OP's intent was to show shoddy workmanship and next to zero QA for a commercial product. Mission accomplished!

You are trying to spin this as some sort of conspiracy, hog wash. Craigsub has made this bed by his own actions. He has a LONG history of being banned here at AVS and other forum sites for being an argumentative hot head. Many of you new members are not aware of this and only look at his sub comparison data (controversial in and of itself).

Other's seem to not mind this level of build/component quality and I say good for them ... enjoy.

You have been prolific in you praise of CHT and it's products. That's fine, as is your defense of CHT. But there is much more to this story than what appears on the surface. It has to do with civility, honesty and good business practices.

BTW, what does your criticism of Penngray and how your speakers perform have to do with the topic of this thread? It is a thinly veiled attempt to discredit him. The best defense is a good offense ... isn't it?

Fire away doc?

Geez. Such hostility. As others have posted, this thread is clearly about Josh expecting too much from a sub (you know, things like an evenly finished paint job, no brad nail holes, feet that are aligned, a dust cap that doesn't appear to leak, feet that don't leak when removed - hellllooo this is called the "ported option" and adds even more output to the sub - both HSU and SVS have subs with this option yet no one complains, a severely scratched surface, etc., all things that are now termed "rustic"). Then unbelievably expecting a response within a few days of sending photos. Then, incredibly, not accepting alternate products from the same company in return. Sending the products back expecting a full refund due to the issues above which are clearly features of the sub (I mean, Craig himself rightfully asked "so you want to return it in compliance with our return policy ... right"?). Then getting charged $400 (really, $400?) to ship the subs back and forth, as per the return policy which apparently, I mean, obviously, relates to defective products as well. Having the gall to post that experience online ONLY 30 days after everything started (again, isn't 90 to 180 days the accepted norm?), then essentially being called a liar by the owner of CHT (clearly the correct thing to do here), the owner pointing out the "obvious" fact that Josh clearly used WAY too much light in his photos, kept them too much in focus, and, good lord, used a zoom lense to show these defects (heck, didn't you see how different the two pictures of penelope cruz or whomever the actress was which clearly showed a picture can lie!?), and rightly implying that the additional damage on the subwoofer wasn't the cause of the courier, but of the purchaser (but not directly saying Josh did that on purpose, cause that would be wrong).

Don't you know this is how start up ID companies treat their consumers? Sheesh. Josh is clearly in the wrong here and should have expected that kind of quality based on the high res photos of the subs on CHT's website, which clearly show this rustic look. You know, again, scratches, uneven paint job, chewed off side of the sub, brad nail holes, feet that aren't aligned (okay, actually, you can sort of make that out), feet that would leak if removed (both SVS and ACI have this option as well remember), a dust cap that supposedly leaked.

RMK, you just have anger management issues and are out to get Craig. Come, drink heavily with me to rid yourself of them.
post #535 of 630
To all of those I have offended in this thread, I am sorry. Many good points have been brought up. For those interested, we will be making quite a few changes at CHT over the next 30 days. These changes will be posted either on our website or forum.

A cashier's check has gone out to Josh in the amount of $400.

A copy of the receipt from the Wounded Warriors Foundation is attached.

 

Wounded Warrior Doc.doc 19.5k . file
post #536 of 630
One more question comes to mind - return shipping was $400 for returning an 18.T

If it's the duo the amp weighs 20 lbs and the enclosures weigh appx 75 pounds each - total weight including boxes etc - lets say the total weight is appx 200lbs(being generous)

Hsu Research will ship a ULS-15 QuadDrive - weight 93lbs x 4 - 372 pounds - via FedEx for $260

Why is the shipping charge for CHT so much higher??

I also find it interesting that CHT DOES NOT list the shipping charges on their website
post #537 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

To all of those I have offended in this thread, I am sorry. Many good points have been brought up. For those interested, we will be making quite a few changes at CHT over the next 30 days. These changes will be posted either on our website or forum.

A cashier's check has gone out to Josh in the amount of $400.

A copy of the receipt from the Wounded Warriors Foundation is attached.

A nice step in the right direction. I still don't understand the charity thing but hey...if you think it'll help I guess it's all good.

That's not really a "receipt" though. It's just a word document. I think people would rather see a scanned image of the actual tax receipt. :-)

and again....maybe an explanation of the why part of this donation and how it in any way is associated to the OP's issues?
post #538 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

One more question comes to mind - return shipping was $400 for returning an 18.T

If it's the duo the amp weighs 20 lbs and the enclosures weigh appx 75 pounds each - total weight including boxes etc - lets say the total weight is appx 200lbs(being generous)

Hsu Research will ship a ULS-15 QuadDrive - weight 93lbs x 4 - 372 pounds - via FedEx for $260

Why is the shipping charge for CHT so much higher??

I also find it interesting that CHT DOES NOT list the shipping charges on their website

Because you get big discounts for being a bulk shipper.
post #539 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

To all of those I have offended in this thread, I am sorry. Many good points have been brought up. For those interested, we will be making quite a few changes at CHT over the next 30 days. These changes will be posted either on our website or forum.

A cashier's check has gone out to Josh in the amount of $400.

A copy of the receipt from the Wounded Warriors Foundation is attached.

How about an apology to the OP??
post #540 of 630
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

One more question comes to mind - return shipping was $400 for returning an 18.T

If it's the duo the amp weighs 20 lbs and the enclosures weigh appx 75 pounds each - total weight including boxes etc - lets say the total weight is appx 200lbs(being generous)

Hsu Research will ship a ULS-15 QuadDrive - weight 93lbs x 4 - 372 pounds - via FedEx for $260

Why is the shipping charge for CHT so much higher??

I also find it interesting that CHT DOES NOT list the shipping charges on their website

I thought the $400 was the shipping Josh paid both ways. From CHT to his house, and the shipping charges to return them.
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