or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Tech Talk › DLP Link - nVidia - Optoma HD66 - Stereoscopic Player - Jitter?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

DLP Link - nVidia - Optoma HD66 - Stereoscopic Player - Jitter? - Page 2

post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

Ok folks. Here is my action plan:

1. rebuild more powerful box with XP and use SP with software page flip
2. try lower res 3D file with existing setup
3. try as is with 3D Vision Kit coming (hope this is the key)
4. throw more money down a new rabbit hole and build a super power for 3D with the nVidia Vision Kit -- using DLP Link

This was supposed to be easy... :|

In Windows XP you can use D-sub dongle and cheap wireless glasses that will work with your DLP projector
but you must use an older nVidia stereoscopic drivers since at some point nVidia scrambled stereoscopic support on Windows XP.

My advice is just get nVidia 3D Vision Kit and you can order more Nvidia glasses with out the kit.
Forget about DLP-Link glasses as they only work corectly with DLP TVs not DLP projectors.

Mathew Orman
post #32 of 102
Important note : Nvidia 3D vision driver and emitter does not support windows XP
The old Nvidia stereoscopic driver (supports windows XP) requires a Geforce 7 series or older.
post #33 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

Important note : Nvidia 3D vision does not support windows XP

No one said it does.

Mathew Orman
post #34 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by icester View Post

Forget about DLP-Link glasses as they only work corectly with DLP TVs not DLP projectors.

Mathew Orman

"Not this DLP projector".
Did you forget the very TI email you quoted already ?
post #35 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

"Not this DLP projector".
Did you forget the very TI email you quoted already ?

What is your point?

Mathew Orman
post #36 of 102
Icestar,
The problem you keep descibing only occurs if the program supplying the frame sequential/page flipping 3D content paired frames does not always supply either the left eye frame or the right eye frame first when sending the 3D content pairs. This is apparently why very few users are reporting the problem you descibing when using DLP-link glases with a PJ or with a TV.
post #37 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Icestar,
The problem you keep descibing only occurs if the program supplying the frame sequential/page flipping 3D content paired frames does not always supply either the left eye frame or the right eye frame first when sending the 3D content pairs. This is apparently why very few users are reporting the problem you descibing when using DLP-link glases with a PJ or with a TV.

Sorry you cannot comprehend that there is no paired frame sequential content unless you use checker board, field sequential, SHARP 3D, column sequential, side by side, over and under, TRIDELTA TT and BB and HDMI 1.4 frame packed.

DLP-Link was designed around checker board mosaic pattern. Since it was not implemented on DLP-Link projectors, it does not work corectly.

Mathew Orman
post #38 of 102
If frames were not paired when sending frame sequential then it would be possible to not have the right eye image and the left eye image from the same point in time. The timeing of the frame sequential/frame flipping content is such that it very easy for the receiving system to detect when a set of paired frames is being received since the receipt of the second frame of the previous would have timed out.
I just do not acept your statement that DLP-Link is not desiged to work on PJs if true then why is that the two of the better sets of DLP-Link glases are sold by PJ Manufacters Optima and Viewsonic and not by the DLP-TV manufacters such as Mits and Samsung?
post #39 of 102
The left/right Frame sequential stereo frames are paired but as explained by TI since these particular models of projectors do not use any standard or proprietary method for transmitting the pairing data, the pairing information is lost in the transmission between the source and the projector.
When activating DLP-link on these projectors, the projectors recreate the pairing information and require the user to set the offset in order to get the correct pairing. Once that's done the entire chain is kept in sync with the proper pairing until the source stops respecting the frame sequential pairing.
This pairing may seem to be virtual when these projectors are used in 120Hz mode, but users have also reported 3D compatibility with SD interlaced sources like HQFS DVDs which work at 60Hz in which case the pairing is required when decoding the frames and proves the projectors really do it.

Other DLP-link projectors use different methods for pairing the frames, some use checkerboard information (Samsung and Mtsubishi RPTVs), some use hdmi1.4 information (new 1080p DLP-link projectors), but they all use the exact same DLP-link technology as it was explained to Icester by Texas instrument.
post #40 of 102
Thread Starter 
Update:

Playing the 480p WMV samples from 3dtv.at have NO issues with the blipping.

I'm trying the 720p now...
post #41 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

Update:

Playing the 480p WMV samples from 3dtv.at have NO issues with the blipping.

I'm trying the 720p now...


Well, playing the 720p WMV is too taxing for this small Atom proc and jitters with dropped frames too. With the MKV, there were no dropped frames but there is jitter. So... nVidia Vision and/or much faster proc (than Athlon X2 2.9GHz)?

By the way, tried with the Athlon X2 2.9GHz with ATI Radeon 4200. Everything configured... 720p 120Hz etc and it jittered like crazy... much worse than the Atom with the GT218 ION. This is with software page flipping and FRESH Windows 7 x86 build.
post #42 of 102
I posted a new thread that can give you a clue, I found the cause of lose of sync, regards.
post #43 of 102
Thread Starter 
Thanks! Unfortunately my sync is fine, it's the actual playing of the video.

I am speccing out a quad core 3.2ghz Phenom II Black and nVidia GTS 450. That should be enough horsepower. Will return the Asrock. The nVidia Vision is coming too so SOMETHING should work. I am set at doing DLP Link as I don't have sync issues.
post #44 of 102
Thread Starter 
This is what I've settled on. Once the boxing day rush is over, I'll be in to return the Asrock ION and upgrade the CPU and Vid on my HTPC to the following:
  • AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition (125W) Quad Core Socket AM3, 3.4GHz
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 460 SE 1024MB GDDR5 Dual Display PCI Express 2.0

This is a jump from the Athlon X2 2.9GHz and on-board Radeon 4200. Add a Bluray drive in the mix somewhere and I should be able to handle anything coming down the pipe for a while and have some good gaming as well.

Sound good?
post #45 of 102
Thread Starter 
Well update.

I went with the CPU above and the GTX 460 (instead of SE) which is a bit higher performance.

Fresh build, there was jitter. Not so much but it was there. Again this is software page flipping. Doing the stats shows there is the odd dropped frame in stereoscopic conversion and render. Not much, but a few.

Messed around with sync and tshooting options and same thing.

Overclocked the CPU to 3.885 GHz and what do you know? The jitter still happens but is EXTREMELY infrequent. What does this tell us? Draw your own conclusions.

I'm playing standard 720p half sbs clips downloaded. Even the 720p WMV from 3dtv site jitters once in a long while.

The nVidia emitter is coming soon so we'll see what happens in SP and PDVD10 once the "true" power of the GTX card is unleashed as well...
post #46 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post

Well update.

I went with the CPU above and the GTX 460 (instead of SE) which is a bit higher performance.

Fresh build, there was jitter. Not so much but it was there. Again this is software page flipping. Doing the stats shows there is the odd dropped frame in stereoscopic conversion and render. Not much, but a few.

Messed around with sync and tshooting options and same thing.

Overclocked the CPU to 3.885 GHz and what do you know? The jitter still happens but is EXTREMELY infrequent. What does this tell us? Draw your own conclusions.

I'm playing standard 720p half sbs clips downloaded. Even the 720p WMV from 3dtv site jitters once in a long while.

The nVidia emitter is coming soon so we'll see what happens in SP and PDVD10 once the "true" power of the GTX card is unleashed as well...

Start the Task Manager and see what other processes are running. You can set the priority level of your Player Software to higher and set the others tasks to lower priority.

Mathew Orman
post #47 of 102
Thread Starter 
Well, I've come to the end of this saga and I'll take a few minutes to write up for those who are Googling and find this post.



Original spec HTPC
- Athlon X2 5000+
- Radeon HD4200
- 2GB DDR3
- 60GB SSD
- 1.5TB SATA
- Optoma HD65
- Windows 7 x86



Wanted to go 3D so sold HD65 and bought BD66 for good price.

Research into 3D for original HTPC lead to dead end so went nVidia.



Bought Asrock ION 3D
- Dual core Atom 1.8GHz (OC to 2GHz)
- nVidia GT218 ION
- 2GB SODIMM DDR2
- 60GB SSD
- 1.5TB USB2
- Optoma HD66
- "generic" DLP Link glasses
- Windows 7 x86



Try Stereoscopic Player in software pageflipping. Anything except low res clips would have intermittent stutter/jitter/judder (keywords).

Find out don't need nVidia to do software pageflipping. Try with original HTPC and Dell Studio XPS 13 laptop with varying degrees of stutter.

By stutter, the video apparently shifts left and right in the background when looking in 3D. Can be seen when not using glasses as well. Playback is smooth (no sound/frame drops) except for the stutter. Maybe a vsync issue.

Try different vsync settings etc. to no avail.



Build new HTPC
- Phenom II 965 BE Quad 3.4GHz (OC to 4.3GHz)
- nVidia GTX 460 1GB (OC to something)
- 4GB DDR3
- 60GB SSD
- 1.5TB SATA
- 500GB SATA
- Optoma HD66
- "generic" DLP Link glasses
- Zalman and Vantec quiet fans all around
- 700w OCZ PSU (took a while to find out the 450w won't cut it!)
- Windows 7 x64



Much better and much less stuttering but still there. After some "normal" system changes (eg. configure shortcuts, etc to liking), the stutter got worse, but still not as bad as previous. CPU usage is ~12% across the board when playing 720p SBS. Tried non-OC and OC same results. At odd times, there would be left/right sync issues. Annoying, didn't have this before with the Asrock ION 3D.

Order nVidia Vision kit.

Plug in the sucker and enable stereoscopic in nVidia panel. Hide the IR emitter behind the HTPC out of sight. Set Stereoscopic Player to use nVidia 3D instead of software pageflipping.



** NO STUTTERING WHATSOEVER **



I'll be damned. Now using the last HTPC setup above with generic DLP Link glasses and Optoma in DLP Link mode no problem (I have 4 pairs of glasses).

The solution? Pay the nVidia 3D Vision Kit "tax" and you'll be fine.
post #48 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualnosaj View Post
The solution? Pay the nVidia 3D Vision Kit "tax" and you'll be fine.
Thanks for doing such extensive testing, I guess that about sums it up. I've been trying to figure out a way to get 3D working without the emitter, but it just doesn't look like that's going to be possible.

Now I just need to find someone selling an emitter on its own so I can return my kit, or try to sell my glasses on ebay and recoup some of the cost...
post #49 of 102
I had the same problem before...., so I bought only the IR emitter on ebay for US$70, I think it's the way to go because the kit it's extremely expensive, also if you want another pair you have to pay almost the same for extra glasses than the kit (140 vs 160), regards.
post #50 of 102
Thread Starter 
There are quite a few folks parting emitters. Actually I will likely be doing so myself I have two vision kits here, one unopened. The kicker is I need to see if this setup (and how) it will work with PC gaming over DLP Link glasses... and if the PS3/XBOX 360 will work as well.
post #51 of 102
Threed - I read a post of yours on another thread saying you have a dual core cpu. I think that is the source of your jitter problems.
post #52 of 102
Very nice topic, because we also have exactly the same problem
with very powerful PC:

Core i7
4GB ram
nvidia 9800GT
win7 64bit
Emachines V700 120Hz projector
and a few ultraclear DLP link glasses.

With latest Stereoscopic Player we loose sync in every 6 sec!
Yes, we measured it, and its in every 6 sec.
(used: haali splitter and ffdshow decoder)

But the very interesting thing here is that ONE of our many
films have zero problem: this is Monster house 720p side by side MKV.
I don't know how it was encoded, but we saw it, and sync always remain
good.

So, if the hardware has a problem, why not with this film?
Any solution for other films besides buying an nvidia usb emitter?

regards!
post #53 of 102
ATTENTION! GOOD NEWS!

I found a solution to use DLP Link glasses for films with 120Hz projectors
and Stereoscopic player WITHOUT JITTER!!

So NVIDIA GLASSES or EMITTER is NOT neeeded!

In fact my solution works from the very cheap and passive cooled Geforce 210!
(also tested with 8600GT)

People: how much worth for you this information?
post #54 of 102
I had similar issues with my setup before the HD3D update from ATI, so even though I don't have the problem now, I'm definitely curious
post #55 of 102
Software Pageflipping works fine on my 9800GT, I just have to tick the sync video with graphics card box in the advanced options...
post #56 of 102
I even don't have to tick that option...
Btw. do you have dlp link glasses without nvidia emitter?
post #57 of 102
I have DLP link glasses and an emitter but I unplugged it to test software pageflipping, if i leave it connected 3dvision kicks in even though software pageflipping is selected! I also tested Quadro hack to enable nvidia quad-buffer but it wouldn't work on my card.
post #58 of 102
sorry, i dont understand this:
"if i leave it connected 3dvision kicks in even though software pageflipping is selected!"

You cannot select and use software pageflipping, when disconnected the emitter?
post #59 of 102
No, if I leave the emitter connected and select software pageflipping in stereoscopic player when I play a video I see the emitter light still come on, so to test software pageflipping I must disconnect the emitter to make sure.
post #60 of 102
so if you disconnect and use pure software pageflipping you don't get
any sync issue with dlp link glasses?

Then what is this topic for?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 3D Tech Talk
AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Tech Talk › DLP Link - nVidia - Optoma HD66 - Stereoscopic Player - Jitter?