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the HouseWrecker. 11hz Twin CVX-15 Tapped Horn - Page 2

post #31 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:01pm
Wow, I'd be pretty interested in trying this horn out if the internal & external horns butted up to each other instead of standing side by side.
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post #32 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

Wow, I'd be pretty interested in trying this horn out if the internal & external horns butted up to each other instead of standing side by side.

I expect it could be made to butt pretty easily. The design can be flipped - either way - w/o issue. Probably just take a bit of effort re-folding.

Betcha anything Mike'll come up with a sollution pretty soon.
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post #33 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:35pm
Can I ask what kind of output you could expect from 5Hz-15Hz? I know you don't want to speculate to begin with, and, that is not the intended design, but do you think it would still give decent results down that low, or fall off like a rock?

Are you going to sell schematics for others to build?
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post #34 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

Wow, I'd be pretty interested in trying this horn out if the internal & external horns butted up to each other instead of standing side by side.

Couple of screws and a little PL - you're good to go (till ya gotta change a driver...then you get to crawl inside....)

I should check a few dimensions on the manifold area before I say for sure, but I think that could be done.

Better build it in place though, cause it isn't coming out of the room as one piece. It would be ~3.5 feet wide at one end, ~2 feet at the other, ~7 feet long, and over 4 feet high. Probably weigh about 450 Lb with drivers, maybe a bit more.

Not small.
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post #35 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

Can I ask what kind of output you could expect from 5Hz-15Hz? I know you don't want to speculate to begin with, and, that is not the intended design, but do you think it would still give decent results down that low, or fall off like a rock?

Are you going to sell schematics for others to build?

Low corner 2pi is 11 Hz. Below that, we'll see what the room gives us. dB's got a GREAT room for a sub in that corner (yeah - he had the presence of mind to measure it before taking on a construction project like this....) Excursion gets to be an issue under 8 Hz or so if I recall. In room, I'd say 10 Hz, with considerably more than 120 dB on tap at a kilowatt in (it sims at 120+ in a 2pi environment, and there's a bit left in the tank as far as the drivers go)

Sell??? Nah - we'll give it away......might be his job, but it's my hobby.

We'll post all the plans, measurements, and all that.
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post #36 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:52pm
Will this out preform my cousin's bose bass module?
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post #37 of 416
12/27/10 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

Will this out preform my cousin's bose bass module?

Might be a horse race above 80 Hz......
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post #38 of 416
12/27/10 at 7:02pm
Dang Deon...Go big or go home eh? Looks like you guys spent some time on that fold. I've been grinding away on a project of my own with many hours into it and my fold is a LOT easier than that. I would be very interested to see some outdoor GP measurements on this behemoth. Will you be able to remove it with the built through the wall aspect and all of that jazz? I would like to see an Akabak script too if Soho does one and you guys don't mind...It may change a few things here and there.

Soho, I sent a couple of emails your way BTW...
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post #39 of 416
12/27/10 at 7:17pm
Thread Starter 
kryptonitewhite,

Nobodies selling anything. The design is not comercial, there are no reservations on it, nobody has any comercial interest in it, and it's already freely posted here. The box is tuned to 11hz. Peak L/F output below 20hz - is centered on 12hz.

After a prodigious amount of time vested evaluating recorded movies and music for LF output, and considering the fact this isn’t a dedicated HT build – freq’s below ~~ 12hz weren’t considered hugely important for a roughly ~~ $500 dollar subwoofer build to beat the bean’s out of theBeast MK-I through IV………..

Ricci,

Go Big or go home....... See attachement. (my last subwoofer project....) - that's about the right sentiment.....

Yep - as I said somewhere above - likely 6 months of minor back and forth tweaks till I bought wood. As to measurements - I plan to fabricate a false wall extension - and to measure out-doors. Throat SPL, 1m g.p., and 10 M g.p. Doesn't mean it will happen in the next two weeks - but we will eventually give plenty of info. no selling plans. My work is also my hobby.

I've already posted 90% of everything needed to duplicate - and everyone here knows Lil-Mike. He will more than Gladly lend a hand. I’ll lean on him to support the likely furious board activity when it gets too busy - this time of year works is Nuts for me.. Mike's busy to, I know....
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #40 of 416
12/27/10 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Low corner 2pi is 11 Hz. Below that, we'll see what the room gives us. dB's got a GREAT room for a sub in that corner (yeah - he had the presence of mind to measure it before taking on a construction project like this....) Excursion gets to be an issue under 8 Hz or so if I recall. In room, I'd say 10 Hz, with considerably more than 120 dB on tap at a kilowatt in (it sims at 120+ in a 2pi environment, and there's a bit left in the tank as far as the drivers go)

Sell??? Nah - we'll give it away......might be his job, but it's my hobby.

We'll post all the plans, measurements, and all that.

Sounds good to me. I get solid output to 9Hz then things fall off. 5Hz is there, but definitely not solid. Someday I think I'll give something like this a go.
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post #41 of 416
12/27/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

kryptonitewhite,

Nobodies selling anything. The design is not comercial, there are no reservations on it, nobody has any comercial interest in it, and it's already freely posted here. The box is tuned to 11hz. Peak L/F output below 20hz - is centered on 12hz.

After a prodigious amount of time vested evaluating recorded movies and music for LF output, and considering the fact this isn't a dedicated HT build - freq's below ~~ 12hz weren't considered hugely important for a roughly ~~ $500 dollar subwoofer build to beat the bean's out of theBeast MK-I through IV..

Ricci,

Go Big or go home....... See attachement. (my last subwoofer project....) Yep - that's about the right sentiment.....

Yep - as I said somewhere above - likely 6 months of minor back and forth tweaks till I bought wood. As to measurements - I plan to fabricate a false wall extension - and to measure out-doors. Throat SPL, 1m g.p., and 10 M g.p. Doesn't mean it will happen in the next two weeks - but we will eventually give plenty of info. no selling plans. My work is also my hobby.

I've already posted 90% of everything needed to duplicate - and everyone here knows Lil-Mike. He will more than Gladly lend a hand. I'll lean on him to support the likely furious board interest when it gets too busy. (I'm currently in process of releasing production for acoustic 'stuff' at work for CES orders... A bit busy. ). Mike's busy to, I know....

Glad to hear it guys, I figured this was the case but wanted to ask to be sure
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post #42 of 416
12/27/10 at 8:23pm
Thread Starter 
with +20dB at 10hz, + 12dB @ 20hz measured in room - this will be a fun sub... ... (IOW just say..... it might potentially meet "reference" level from below 10hz up at the listening position.).
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post #43 of 416
12/27/10 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dB-Kicker View Post

with +20dB at 10hz, + 12dB @ 20hz measured in room - this will be a fun sub... ... (IOW waaaay more than "reference" level from below 10hz up).

I dont think I can make any $$$ selling my towers or I'd alread have them for sale to order some more kickers and more wood
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post #44 of 416
12/27/10 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

I dont think I can make any $$$ selling my towers or I'd alread have them for sale to order some more kickers and more wood

I can see you cutting holes in the side of your house already
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post #45 of 416
12/27/10 at 9:38pm
Thread Starter 
6 Sheets of Auraco 4'x8'. One 5lb box of square drive pocket screws. 6 tubes of PL Premium ( The best nastiest edge grain glue on earth – it really gets everywhere, think truck bedliner...) a bunch a square drive pocket screws, and a lotta measurements…… Make for something that looks like it might be fun. I’ve never ever heard a sub capable of an estimate 120dB plus at listening position at 12 – hz. It’s nice my garage sits where it does!
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post #46 of 416
12/27/10 at 9:48pm
How far away is your listening postion? What's the expected bandwith of the House Wrecker since it's tuned to 11hz? Also, what's aerated PP?
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post #47 of 416
12/27/10 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

I can see you cutting holes in the side of your house already

Ive got a whole bedroom that's isolated from the house separated by my bleechers! I'd fill that whole room up!

I would cut the towers down, flip the bed around to the other side of the room, and that would open up the other bedroom, and I could either aim them through the door or cut holes in the walls to make use of the rest of the room.
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post #48 of 416
12/28/10 at 12:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post

Ive got a whole bedroom that's isolated from the house separated by my bleechers! I'd fill that whole room up!

I would cut the towers down, flip the bed around to the other side of the room, and that would open up the other bedroom, and I could either aim them through the door or cut holes in the walls to make use of the rest of the room.

You should just build a sealed room to fire subs into
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post #49 of 416
12/28/10 at 6:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonitewhite View Post
Ive got a whole bedroom that's isolated from the house separated by my bleechers! I'd fill that whole room up!

I would cut the towers down, flip the bed around to the other side of the room, and that would open up the other bedroom, and I could either aim them through the door or cut holes in the walls to make use of the rest of the room.

Why not just go with a 4th or 6th order idea, and turn the entire room into a 5-25 hertz passband?
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post #50 of 416
12/28/10 at 7:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
How far away is your listening postion? What's the expected bandwith of the House Wrecker since it's tuned to 11hz? Also, what's aerated PP?
Aerated PP is Aerated polypropylene. Basically it is foamed PP - about ~~ 20% lighter MMS - with a higher stiffness to mass ratio.

I've already posted the model as a PDF, and the .TXT file to import into HR. Bandwidth is 100% depicted in those. I have DSP with 12 bands of (infinitely variable center freq – and Q) E.Q. per output, first through 8’th order High and Low pass filters with Butterworth, L/R, Bessel - etc available, infinitely variable delay - and more per channel to get it to play nice.

The room and L/F combination of the 6 other 10” CVX’s in room will dictate what bandwidth I use it for. Likely, from ULF through about~~50hz… That top freq can be extended or truncated – we’ll see what happens when I get there.

For Illustration, I’ve attached a built and measured 30hz tapped horn I tested before delving into this head first – with and without crossover / E.Q.

In this case – the crossover was set to 67hz@ 36dB octave, with a fairly narrow notch filter at 116hz. No other EQ whatsoever.

 

30hz Tang Band Throat SPL.pdf 16.6806640625k . file
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post #51 of 416
12/28/10 at 7:18am
Looks very capable to say the least! Are the other 6) 10" CVXs going to be in tapped horns as well or are they mainly to smooth response to let the HW do it's thing?
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post #52 of 416
12/28/10 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post
Looks very capable to say the least! Are the other 6) 10" CVXs going to be in tapped horns as well or are they mainly to smooth response to let the HW do it's thing?
They are the woofer sections in my main L/C/R's... Simple sealed boxes. With the current Eq - flat to 28hz. I'll let the room (and rest of the system) dictate final response. Yes distributed subs help smooth the final net F/R - and I subscribe to the doctrin of multiple woofers. Several reasons. The main one being I'm building a 20dB system. (iow - capable of 20dB peaks over my target listening level SPL)

Attached is a sketched .pdf of the HT wall to give you an idea what they are being used for.... Their main responsibillity is to anchor the LF of my L/C/R's.

 

dB HT Wall.pdf 72.9912109375k . file
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post #53 of 416
12/28/10 at 8:09am
Very cool thanks for the info. I remember some of your projects from way back in the day, good to see you're still in the mix.
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post #54 of 416
12/28/10 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I would like to see an Akabak script too if Soho does one and you guys don't mind...It may change a few things here and there.

Soho, I sent a couple of emails your way BTW...

I'm looking at the stuff lilmike sent over now. The first bend is going to be a challenge. I have a feeling the rear side will be more trouble than it looks as well. It'll be fun.

If I get it worked out I'll send you a copy.

Things are a little busy right now, but I'll check the new script out ASAIC. I'm sure you got it right though. Your description fit's what I expected.
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post #55 of 416
12/28/10 at 10:31am
Hi Deon,
Hope your neighbors are cool about what's about to go down What amp will you be running this with? Will you be able to make some measurements of the electrical phase & impedance? I'm curious to see how your fold cleans up the group delay of the model.
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post #56 of 416
12/28/10 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soho54 View Post

I'm looking at the stuff lilmike sent over now. The first bend is going to be a challenge. I have a feeling the rear side will be more trouble than it looks as well. It'll be fun.

If I get it worked out I'll send you a copy.

Things are a little busy right now, but I'll check the new script out ASAIC. I'm sure you got it right though. Your description fit's what I expected.

Roger that. Everyone is busy this time of year. I am not building anything for another 2 or 3 months when the weather turns anyway. ( Trying to live through others in the meantime.)
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post #57 of 416
12/28/10 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Roger that. Everyone is busy this time of year. I am not building anything for another 2 or 3 months when the weather turns anyway. ( Trying to live through others in the meantime.)

Busy? Understatement... That is the only thing I don't like about the holidays...

Another few days and we are coming into my building season though. During the wet/dark season, I can go out to the shop, flip on the lights, crank up some tunes, light a fire in the wood stove and work out in my shop and stay nice and comfy all day long. When it gets dry out, I play outside every chance I get.

Now I just have to get one of my designs folded up so I can make something for me. You know the saying, "the cobbler's kids go barefoot" or something like that....in my case it would go something like "the sub designer rocks a sub-par sub...." but that's too many subs in a sentence....
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post #58 of 416
12/28/10 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
Neo,

Funny about the neighbors. Yes, i have talked to all of them, especially the two who will be the most affected..

Amplification is just a simple off the shelf pro-sound power amp, curved on an A.P. flat to 5hz with the filters disabled.. 'Bout a kilowatt per driver. Outdoor measurements depend on whether I can find a hand before I bolt it through the living room wall. If I have to wait a week or two for a person - I'm going to guess it'll be permanently installed before it gets measured.

Regarding group delay 'issues'. I've ABX'd the audibility of up to 100ms @ and below 100hz electronically added to a test signal, and had Zero success with anyone being able to accurately determine which signal had the delay... I'm not too worried about anything below ~~80ms at freq’s =/< than 80hz.. The spike at 44.5hz and 77.5hz will be significantly reduced by the fact this is a wood enclosure, not the infinitely rigid material Horn Response models with. They won't be a real issue in my world ..
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post #59 of 416
12/28/10 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

You should just build a sealed room to fire subs into

My buddy Fallen from ROE has been trying and trying to get me to do that, and add a Star Trek door lol. I'd have massive gains and my house destruction would be limited. Since Ive added the other subs, I now rattle the neighbors windows... hav't had cops over yet, but I'd like not to have to worry
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post #60 of 416
12/28/10 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_carter View Post

Why not just go with a 4th or 6th order idea, and turn the entire room into a 5-25 hertz passband?

Ive been trying to get help doign that since before th build, and again a week or three ago... 5Hz-15Hz, either cutting down my towers and (oh god) going without 15Hz-80Hz assuming my tiny little cubes even make it down that far

Or if I could afford more subs later and go with the giant/high excursion subs theyve been SLOWLY working on... starting with the IB3 22" using the Q motor, but theyre working on some super high excursion stuff that sounds wicked awesome.... I could cut the 12" ports on the towers to 20" and they'd be tuned to 20Hz :-P

I think I'll keep what i have and just be happy, otherwise I will always be trying something new and never fully appreciating anything.
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