or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Home Entertainment & Theater Builder › Dedicated Theater Design & Construction › Nick's Homebrew Bar and Entertainment Area
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Nick's Homebrew Bar and Entertainment Area - Page 11

post #301 of 1235
200cfm at 0.1fr would be an 8" round or an 8x5, so it sounds like you are on the money.

If this is a return you could just seal the joists to the plywood etc and use the framing as a return air cavity.

Wouldn't be my ideal solution, either... but it is an acceptable practice for return air.

Hopefully you can find somebody to help you out.
post #302 of 1235
Thread Starter 
My friend called me this afternoon and said he hasn't forgotten about the duct. He said he may be able to get it done by this weekend. My plan is to make a rectangular box that passes above the beam and extends 4" past it on either side. I will then attach an 8" flex duct on either side.
post #303 of 1235
Thread Starter 
I stopped by my friends house today to help him out with a couple things and was quite happy to see that he had cut the sheet metal for the cold air return pass through. He felt bad that he didn't have a large enough piece to bend it from a single piece, but that isn't a big deal. We bent a single piece for the bottom and two sides. We then bent a second piece to cover the top with a one inch lip on either side to attatch it to the sides.

My plan is to use some rivets to hold the two pieces together and then tape the seams with metallic tape to seal them. I did a dry fit and it fits well. I just need to clean up the hole a bit and I will be ready to slide it through. Hopefully I will have time to install the pass through duct and then connect the flex duct and run it to the cold air return trunk.

With any luck, there will be another update tomorrow.
post #304 of 1235
Thread Starter 
More progress today. I completed the pass-through duct for the cold air return. I sealed all of the joints with metallic tape to make sure there are no leaks. I then cleaned up the hole it would be passing through. Before installing it, I attached the theater side flex duct.



I then installed it above the beam. It fit perfectly and shouldn't constrict the air flow at all. I am happy that this piece of the puzzle is finally complete.



Before attaching the duct to the other side, I had one other existing duct in the main basement that I wanted to move to make room for the 8" flex duct. I have everything taken apart and the new pieces cut. I am hoping to finish the re-assembly this evening. Once that duct is moved, I need to cut the hole in the main trunk for the cold air return and attach it.

The next steps after completing these items are:
  1. Designing and building a "psuedo" dead vent between the joists to reduce sound escaping through the inlet and return HVAC ducts.
  2. Design and build the boxes that the registers will mount to.
  3. Re-attach the gas line to my fireplace before it gets cold out . That has been lingering since the beginning of summer when I moved the gas line, but it wasn't important at the time. Now that fall is here, that is changing.
post #305 of 1235
Thread Starter 
I was hoping to work on the basement tonight, but my wife wasn't feeling well and went to bed early. I didn't even want to guess what she might do if I woke her up while cutting or drilling .

So, I decided to work on the design for my "dead vents" and supply boots that the registers will attach to. My worry is that I am spending a large amount of time building a sealed room and sound will enter/exit the room through the air registers (both supply and return). As previously mentioned, I am using flex duct for both the supply lines and the cold air return. The supply air will enter the room through the ceiling at the front of the theater and the return air will exit through the ceiling in the rear of the theater.

For the joists that are on either side of the flex duct, I am planning to build boxes (pseudo dead vent?) out of MDF with a layer of GG and then a layer of drywall on the inside. Because the joists are 12" O.C., I don't really have room to isolate the boxes, so these boxes will be touching the joists, but hopefully will help control sound that is passing through the flex ducts. The boxes will not touch the drywall on the ceiling below.

The flex duct will then attach to a supply boot that the HVAC supply registers will mount to. If everything goes as planned the supply boot will be isolated from the joists using clips. The boot will be constructed of 3/4" MDF with a layer of drywall on the inside (separated by GG) and caulked. The drywall on the ceiling will be mounted to hat channel, so there will be a small gap between the boot and the top of the drywall. The air needs to pass through a hole in the bottom of the boot and out through the register in the drywall. Should I build a small MDF spacer to attach to the bottom of the supply boot so the drywall on the ceiling contacts the spacer? What is the best way to do this without coupling the ceiling/boot to the joists?

I hope this makes sense. I'm not great at drawing, but maybe I can figure out how to make a diagram that shows what I am trying to do.

Nick
post #306 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Here is a quick drawing I made in Visio of the boot. What should I use as the spacer? Is this the correct way to do this?

post #307 of 1235
Thread Starter 
OK, enough analysis, time to get something done . I spoke with John at the Soundproofing company today and reviewed my ideas (probably for the 3rd time ) and know where I am headed with the flex ducts and what to do with the HVAC boots. With that said, I decided I better hurry up and order my diffusers since they have a 4 week lead time.

I am planning to make the supply diffusers slots each (4"x36") and the return diffusers 4 slots (6"x30"). I called the local supplier who had previously given me a quote, but the salesman was on the phone each time I called. Of course I forgot my cell phone at home today, so I decided to try back since I am rarely at my desk. Finally after the third attempt, I left my desk number and we played phone tag multiple times. Needless to say, I didn't get my diffusers ordered today. I'm not real happy - it would have been one thing to check off the list, but hopefully I can reach him tomorrow.
post #308 of 1235
Thread Starter 
I was able to get my diffusers ordered this morning. The supplier was super nice and said they would have them shipped directly to my house for no extra charge. This will save me a 30 minute drive each way to the supplier. They will take about 4 weeks to arrive, but they gave me the install instructions, so I can get the boots made and installed prior to the diffusers arriving.

I also made some progress on the cold air return. I got the flex duct connected to the other side of the beam. Now I just need to run it to the trunk. I left it hanging for now because there is a temporary light hanging right next to it and I'm afraid it may get too hot.



My plan is to remove some of the old lighting this weekend to get it out of the way. I need to get some temporary lighting to use until I get the final lighting installed. A friend said he would loan me a pair of halogen work lights that are mounted on a stand. I see that Harbor freight sells them for $29, so I might pick up an extra to provide more lighting.

I was delaying cutting the hole in the cold air return trunk because I didn't want it wide open - sucking air from the basement, but then I realized that even after I hook it up, it will be pulling air from the theater area anyway, so I went ahead and cut the hole, put in the starter piece and then connected an elbow. Once I get the light bulb moved I can hook up the flex duct directly to the elbow.



I don't think I am going to have much time to work on the basement tonight because I have a meeting at my son's school, but I may take some time to do some cleaning in the basement. It is starting to get really messy and I want to clean up before doing any more work. Then this weekend I can continue with some of the other work that needs to be buttoned up. A friend offered to take me to Home Depot next week to pick up the MDF and drywall for my dead vents and HVAC boots. I finally have some momentum. Hopefully I can keep it going.
post #309 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I finally have some momentum. Hopefully I can keep it going.

Your documentation (and pictures ) of progress is excellent. Some people may not be interested on the HVAC issues you are addressing, but I think it is one of the more interesting aspects of the build. So keep it coming, please!
post #310 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Chris. I am often torn what to post and what to leave out. But I figure there are three reasons to document everything:
  1. Future reference for myself. It is nice to be able to go back to see exactly what I did.
  2. Help someone out who is planning their own theater. I know I enjoy reading other threads.
  3. Provide entertainment to the many people reading this thread who are shaking their head wondering what the heck I'm thinking.
post #311 of 1235
Thread Starter 
I made some good progress today. I ran to Harbor Freight to pick up some halogen lights to use as temporary work lights in the theater. They had them on sale yesterday for $24.95, plus I had a 10% off coupon. They work great as work lighting. Well worth the price I paid.



I also have two single lights without the stand to use when needed. Those can be moved around the room when working. They are super bright, but they also put off a lot of heat!! I could feel the heat coming off of them even when I was up on a ladder a few feet away. I was able to remove the existing porcelain sockets and wiring from the theater. I also had to do some rewiring of the lighting in the rest of the basement since all of the lights in the basement were wired in a series and on a single switch. I will eventually remove the other lighting as well, but right now I am focusing on the theater.

Since I was doing some HVAC work this week, I decided to go ahead and move one other duct to clean up the ceiling space in the main basement area. This will allow me to raise the ceiling in that area by 6". I still have to hook up the gas line to my fireplace, but I am going to wait until tomorrow when it is a bit warmer so that I don't have to turn the heat off (I can't believe how cold it was last night!!).

With all of that said, I think I am getting close to insulation!! I still need to make my dead vents and my HVAC boots, but I need to pick up the wood. My friend said he can probably pick it up for me on Tuesday.

While I wait for the wood, it is time to do some more planning. I am trying to determine all of the wiring I will need for the theater (electrical, speakers, etc.). My plan is to completely seal the room with all lighting and wiring within the room. I will have a single wire coming in to the room to feed a sub panel and then all circuits will be fed within the room from that panel. I also plan to put lighting in soffits and run the speaker wires through the soffits as well. The only other wire I may need to run above the drywall would be for the projector, a thermostat wire and for the smoke detector. Is this the best way to do it? Is there much difference if I run the wires now and seal the boxes before drywalling? I am also wondering about running the speaker wires through the soffits since there will be electrical wires in there as well. I can possibly isolate them somewhat. Plus they will be in conduit.

What is everyone's thought on wiring before or after drywall? Which wires should be run before and which after? All opinions welcome?
post #312 of 1235
Thread Starter 
I just got what I think is a really good deal on 2" flexible conduit. I bought 2 boxes of 100' (200' total) Carlon 2" Plenum Guard Flexible Raceway. The total price for both boxes shipped was $95.31. Smart Home sells 50' for $87 shipped. The person selling it wanted $35 per box plus $45 for shipping. He told me he could ship 2 for the same price, so I offered him $25 per box and he accepted my offer. I know this is probably way more than I will ever use, but I figured someone would want what I don't use.





post #313 of 1235
Awesome deal, especially since it's plenum rated. You probably don't need the plenum rating, but it makes it an exceptional deal!
post #314 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Awesome deal, especially since it's plenum rated. You probably don't need the plenum rating, but it makes it an exceptional deal!

Yes, I certainly don't need the plenum rating for my application, but it was so much cheaper than buying the standard 2" raceway tubing that I couldn't turn it down. It was like going shopping for an S10 pickup to haul some mulch for the yard and finding a dump truck for a fraction of the price!!
post #315 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

What is everyone's thought on wiring before or after drywall? Which wires should be run before and which after? All opinions welcome?

If you have a plan for running most of the electrical and low-voltage wiring after the room is sealed up, then I would only run the wire you absolutely need to behind the drywall. You'll need to be super diligent when sealing up the holes for any wiring that puts a hole in your room.

Do you have a plan written down for your wiring? I would suggest posting up something so you can get some feedback from the regulars around here. It doesn't have to be to scale or super technical; heck, just draw it on paper (napkins work, just ask Big! ) and take a picture if you have to. It is a lot easier to correct mistakes made on paper...
post #316 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Chris. I do have a wiring diagram that I created. I just need to go through and make a few minor adjustments. I also made a list of all of the things I wanted to remember to include so I wouldn't forget anything before closing up the walls (like smoke detector and thermostat). I will post some pictures for others to review.
post #317 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Well, since I was in a spending mood today, I decide to look into some more materials for the theater. I don't have a ton of room in my vehicle, but I thought I would look for insulation for the theater walls. The price for 23" R-13 is the same at both Home Depot and Lowes, but upon further inspection I discovered that the Johns Manville insulation at Lowes includes one more 8' piece (11 vs 10), so it was technically cheaper. Then I found out that if you buy 4 packages, you get 10% off - better yet. To top it all off, I had a $10 coupon they let me use. In the end I was able to purchase enough insulation to complete the walls for $211 with tax.

I couldn't have been happier, or so I thought. When I got home, I discovered that Consumers Energy (local gas company) is offering a $300 rebate for anyone who uses gas as their primary heating source and who installs at least 500 sq ft of R5 or higher insulation in the walls of their basement. I already filled out the form online and sent over the receipt and they said I would receive a check in about six weeks. In the end, I am getting paid $89 to insulate the walls of the theater!! Can't beat that!!

Of course I still need to purchase the insulation for the ceiling and the rest of the basement, but I could only fit so much in my wife's Outlook (what I bought was a tight fit). For now it is just sitting in the basement waiting for me to start.



I was also able to finish up the gas line work today. I got it connected to my fireplace and checked for leaks. No problems. I need to check on the code requirements for the shut-off valve. I have one in the floor next to the fireplace that I can use a key to open and close. There is also a second one in the basement. I was wondering if the valve in the floor will meet code if the valve in the basement is removed (or is not accessible any more). I hope that the valve in the floor is enough. If not, I will need to move the valve in the basement further back on the line to another part of the basement which will be a real pain in the rear.

post #318 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Attached is my wiring diagram. I guess even after reminding myself, I still forgot the smoke detector. Oops . I also plan to have the following items in the rack:
  1. Cat5 - network
  2. RG6 for satellite feed
  3. Multiple electric circuits for rack
  4. rack lighting
  5. telephone


What am I forgetting? What should I change? I am open to any suggestions.

post #319 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Looking over my list again, I forgot to add a network cable to the projector.
post #320 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I was also able to finish up the gas line work today. I got it connected to my fireplace and checked for leaks. No problems. I need to check on the code requirements for the shut-off valve. I have one in the floor next to the fireplace that I can use a key to open and close. There is also a second one in the basement. I was wondering if the valve in the floor will meet code if the valve in the basement is removed (or is not accessible any more). I hope that the valve in the floor is enough. If not, I will need to move the valve in the basement further back on the line to another part of the basement which will be a real pain in the rear.

You can't render a valve inaccessible. I don't think the one that requires a key would meet code (because it needs a key). Also check the manufacturer's instructions, they probably require an additional valve, regardless of the code.

The valve needs to be readily accessible. Sounds like you will have to move the valve :/

Tim
post #321 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

You can't render a valve inaccessible. I don't think the one that requires a key would meet code (because it needs a key). Also check the manufacturer's instructions, they probably require an additional valve, regardless of the code.

The valve needs to be readily accessible. Sounds like you will have to move the valve :/

Tim

That's not what I wanted to hear, but I suspected that was the case. Looks like I have some work to do.
post #322 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I also made a list of all of the things I wanted to remember to include so I wouldn't forget anything before closing up the walls (like smoke detector and thermostat).

A man with a plan, I like the sound of that.
post #323 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Attached is my wiring diagram.

What am I forgetting? What should I change? I am open to any suggestions.

You'll probably want some soffit lights in the rear like you have along the sides, otherwise the rear of the room will be too dark. The room will feel unbalanced with all the light up front and on the sides.

Also, you should include at least one exposed outlet in the room. You'll need it for the vacuum cleaner and other temporary electrical devices in the room. Most people install one on each side of the room on the back of the columns containing the side speakers so they are 'hidden' but still readily accessible.

Are you planning to run multiple lighting zones? Your plan should include which lights are on which zone so you know which wires go where.

Oh, and don't forget to put an outlet in for your equipment rack. I don't see one there...
post #324 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Chris. I will add the lights to the rear soffit. With that said, should I separate the side lights from the rear so I can leave one set on vs the others? My plan is to expand my current lighting control and use Leviton Vizia RF with my HAI Omni Pro II as the controller. I can then install scene switches or use a remote control if desired.

As far as exposed lights, I had thought about it, but wasn't sure how to implement it. I really want something that is completely hidden, but easy to turn on when needed.

I have multiple circuits planned for the rack. That's not an issue.

Thanks again for the feedback.
post #325 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Here is a quick drawing I made in Visio of the boot. What should I use as the spacer? Is this the correct way to do this?


I might be a bit late for the question but on my thread (post 252) I show how i dealt with this issue. I used the rubber water shield used around window openings as the spacer. I figured it would be better than a rigid connection which might pass sound.
post #326 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I might be a bit late for the question but on my thread (post 252) I show how i dealt with this issue. I used the rubber water shield used around window openings as the spacer. I figured it would be better than a rigid connection which might pass sound.

Thanks! Not too late at all. I am hoping to pick up some materials tomorrow, so no work has been completed yet on the boot. I will take a look at your thread.
post #327 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

Your documentation (and pictures ) of progress is excellent. Some people may not be interested on the HVAC issues you are addressing, but I think it is one of the more interesting aspects of the build. So keep it coming, please!

Right on Chris. The HVAC is very interesting to me as the vent that NGiovas is doing is similar to my situation. Thanks,

Dale
post #328 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockmonkey2000 View Post

I might be a bit late for the question but on my thread (post 252) I show how i dealt with this issue. I used the rubber water shield used around window openings as the spacer. I figured it would be better than a rigid connection which might pass sound.

While I second aa non-rigid connection, a thin membrane will allow sound to escape into the joist bay.

Perhaps some linacoustic sandwiched between the top of the drywall and the boot? eg cut some 2x2 pieces then cut a square hole in the middle the size of your boot.

I brought my metal boot flush with the bottom of the drywall. However, the boot is fastened to the drywall, not the joists.

EDIT: how I did mine:
post #329 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. John from the Soundproofing Company suggested making the MDF spacer as planned, but cutting it so that it is about 1/32" above the drywall and sealing it with acoustic caulk. I am going to have to play around with the design a bit until I figure out the best method. I do think that a thin piece of rubber may allow sound to escape as Tim mentioned.
post #330 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

You can't render a valve inaccessible. I don't think the one that requires a key would meet code (because it needs a key). Also check the manufacturer's instructions, they probably require an additional valve, regardless of the code.

The valve needs to be readily accessible. Sounds like you will have to move the valve :/

Tim

Moving this valve may not be quite as difficult as I had anticipated. I was talking with a friend (same one who offered to pick up the drywall and MDF for my dead vents) and he has the dies to cup pipe threads. He offered to help me cut off the pipe where it would be accessible and insert the shutoff valve. We can then insert a union to connect the two back together. This will be much simpler than trying to work my way backwards from the end.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Home Entertainment & Theater Builder › Dedicated Theater Design & Construction › Nick's Homebrew Bar and Entertainment Area