Nick's Homebrew Bar and Entertainment Area - Page 13

I got home from work tonight and there was a surprise waiting for me on the front porch. My custom diffusers arrived a couple of weeks early. Now I can get started on the HVAC boots that they will be housed in. I also need to paint them flat black. The top picture is the cold air return. The supply diffusers are thinner, but longer. The supply diffusers also have flat black air diverters that can be adjusted. You can't see through them. It is just black when looking into them.





I also ordered a 100' telephone cable and some conduit straps for the 2" carlon conduit. I still need to pick up the thermostat wire and the HDMI cable so that I can run them before drywalling.

I got home from work a little earlier than expected today, so I spent a little bit of time in the theater. I previously had wires hanging from the ceiling all over the theater. I finally got all of them run to the corner where the rack will be built. These wires are mostly for the whole house audio. There are two pair of speaker wires (in a single jacket) and a network cable for a control panel run to every room in the house. I also had 3 coax cables coming into the theater for satellite and antenna. Lastly, I have two Cat 5e cables coming in for network access. I am working out a plan to ensure that the ceiling is completely sealed where all of these wires enter the theater.



I also painted the diffuser for the cold air return flat black to see how it would look. It appears to look really good. There are a couple of spots on the inside that may need to be hit again, but not a big deal. I will probably paint the others this weekend.



I also measured for the HDMI cable that will be run to the projector. But after looking at some of the other threads in the forum, I started wondering if it wouldn't be better to seal the room and then run the outlet and HDMI cable through the rear soffit since the projector will be at the rear of the theater. I could even extend a hush box for the projector out of the front of the soffit so that it has more of a seamless look to it.

Thanks Ben. Most of the hesitation around the cable length is because I am very close to 25'. I don't mind jumping up to a 30' cable, but that changes a cable from a high speed cable to a standard speed cable. It appears that is just the certification and that many people have no issues with the longer cable.

If I end up running the cable through the soffit after the room is sealed, I can wait to measure the cable length until I get closer. This will let me build the rack up and test the length with some string.

That's good to hear. I am going to order the 30' cable just to be sure. I think I will get the one that does ethernet as well just in case I ever need it down the road. It is only a few dollars more. Of course, just my luck, they are out of stock. Not a big deal since I don't need it immediately, but I will buy it once they get them back in stock.

I ended up installing a couple more pieces of insulation tonight and painted another diffuser. I am starting to feel better about the insulation. I was wondering if it was making much of a difference, but earlier today my son was calling me from the top of the stairs and couldn't hear me responding from inside the theater. My wife was calling me later and thought that I was responding from upstairs. She didn't realize I was down there because she could barely hear me. That is great news considering I don't have a door, have more insulation to put in and haven't put up any drywall yet.

I had a great weekend with lots of home theater activities. The most exciting part was getting together with several local home theater enthusiasts and getting to see two amazing local theaters (thanks Pete and Mark!). This definitely motivated me to continue working on my theater.

I got back to work on my theater this morning and got a lot done. I am happy to say that the insulation on the walls is officially 100% complete. I finished up the last two corners and put the insulation between the shared wall and overhead beam. Now I can focus on finishing the insulation in the ceiling.



I also have completed most of the insulation in the ceiling. I only have 4 rows remaining along with a couple of other small areas to fill. Here is a summary of what remains for the ceiling insulation:

• insulate the two rows that have the HVAC supply lines and boots. Once the boots are installed, I can attach the flex duct, close up the dead vents and install the insulation in these two rows.
• I need to install insulation in the two rows that have flex duct running the entire width of the theater to supply air to the family room that is above the theater. I'm not sure the best way to approach this. Should I just compress the insulation below the flex duct filling the remainder of the cavity? I assume compressed insulation is better than no insulation (the flex duct is insulated as well).
• I just have two other pieces to cut - one around the cold air return boot once it is built and installed and one in the corner above the rack, but I am waiting to ensure that I am done running wires in this corner before installing the insulation.
• I also need to go back through and add some staples to the ceiling insulation. When I originall installed it, I only put enough staples to hold it in place. I am now about 1/3 of the way through putting in the remaing staples.

I cant' wait to finish this phase of the project. I am really sick of HVAC and insulation. I can't wait to move on to drywall. That will really start to transform the theater. With that said, I also don't want to rush things and possibly miss something. I will be moving on soon enough.

I also built the first HVAC supply boot today and attached the duct starter.



The face isn't permanently attached yet because I need to caulk the inside and decide if I should add a layer of drywall or insulation on the inside. I can't really do both because it will begin to constrict the air flow. My plan is to attach the boot to the joist using some leftover isolation clips. The flex duct that feeds it then goes through a dead vent that I built between the joists.

The boot is made from 3/4" MDF. Would it be better to line the inside with a thin layer of insulation, or a layer of 5/8" drywall? which would provide the most benefit? I am definitely worried about sound escaping from the theater through the diffusers/boots.



I need to build the last two boots and then mount all three. then I will be adding an MDF lip to the face of each boot to fill the gap between the boot and the top of the drywall. The diffuser will mount to this lip.

I continued working on the insulation this evening. I am really pushing to get it done so that I can move on to drywall. It is really tedious work, but it needs to be done. One of the factors that slowed down the process greatly was having to cut all of the ceiling insulation in half length wise so that it would fit between my 12" OC joists. measuring and cutting every roll with a utility knife was not fun. The other thing that slowed it down was that every row of joists had cross braces in two locations which required that each row also be cut into 3 pieces to fit. Once installed, the cross braces left a gap in the insulation.



Now that most of the insulation is in place, I am going back through and filling these gaps. First I am taking some of the leftover R13 insulation from the wall cutoffs and stuffing it above the cross braces.



Next I am taking a leftover cutoff piece from the ceiling and covering the cross braces from below. This should fill the gap so that no sound escapes.



I also decided to put a piece of R19 insulation below the 2 flex ducts that run side to side across the theater feeding the family room above. Because the duct fills so much of the joist bay, it compresses the insulation, but it fills the gaps on either side of the duct and adds a layer below the insulated duct. I got one done and have one more to complete.

Lastly, I went through and finished most of the stapling on the ceiling insulation. I only have a few more rows to complete.

When I got home from work, I decided today would be a good day to shut off the gas in the house one last time to move the shutoff valve for the fireplace that is between the joists of the theater ceiling. While it wasn't exactly warm, I figured this about the warmest it is going to be until next Spring . My plan was to remove the valve between the joists so that I could finish my drywalling soon and then I would relocate the shutoff valve to another part of the basement where I could access it, but not until Spring when it is warmer outside and I have more time to work on it. My thought was that I still have the shutoff valve that is located in the floor next to the fireplace if I really need to turn it off. I would put the other valve in later to meet code. Here is what the floor valve looks like:



Figuring that we would be using the fireplace soon, I also decided to go ahead and light the pilot light after turning the gas back on. When I opened the panel under the fireplace, I discovered a big surprise - there was a brass shutoff valve just before the gas line connects to the fireplace. I totally forgot that it was under there. So in reality there were actually 3 valves on this one fireplace. Oh well, that saves me the trouble of having to move the other valve. Plus this is much easier to access.



Feeling good about getting so much done, I decided to push a little harder this evening and get some more work done. Since my son was outside, I had him help me move a sheet of 3/4" MDF in the garage so that I could cut the pieces for another HVAC boot. I got two sides and the top and bottom cut. I just need to cut the ends and assemble it. I am hoping to have time to cut the remaining pieces for this boot and the cold air return boot before the weekend. Once I get them installed I can temporarily install the diffusers and test the sound level of the air flowing through them to make sure they aren't loud. If there are any issues, now is the time to fix them.

Hard to believe I got so much done in just a few hours today, but I am still running on the motivation from visiting those theaters this weekend. I really can't wait to get this room finished!!

Hi Ted,

That is actually the HVAC boot that the air will enter the theater from - the diffuser will be installed into the bottom of it above the drywall. Basically it is a much larger version of the sheet metal one shown below.





There are two of these for air coming into the theater. They each house one of these diffusers:



The air will enter this boot, from a flex duct that is boxed in layers of insulation, 5/8" drywall, green glue, 3/4" MDF, green glue and then the joists. Unfortunately, my "psuedo" dead vents didn't have enough room to isolated them from the joists completely since they are 12" OC.



Here is a side view of what I am trying to build:



Back to your original question, I'm still trying to decide what to put inside the boot. It will be isolated from the joists with 4 clips. The shell is made from 3/4" MDF. I had planned to line it with green glue then 5/8" drywall possibly followed by a very thin layer of insulation. The issue is that I don't want to block the air flow so that it can exit the diffuser. Do you think I will get better results trying to block the bass with the layer of drywall, or would it be better to add a thicker layer of insulation (still can't be real thick)?

I am open to any and all suggestions at this point. I still have access to all of it and can make any changes that are needed.

It was a bit of a struggle trying to figure out how to handle the ducts for the theater. No matter how I solve the problem, there is some compromise.

A couple of quick questions for you Ted. For the boot, it is decoupled. Am I better off leaning towards more mass and trying to absorb the sound as it goes through the flex duct, or should I add more insulation? I'm concerned about the bass escaping.

With the "joist muffler" (I knew there had to be a better name for it), is it worth trying to go back and rebuild them with even a slight gap between the box and the joists? It would probably only be 1/4" tops. If I do that, I would be compressing the insulation around the flex duct reducing its effectiveness. The way I have it built currently, the flex duct will continue on the other side of the wall for about 6'-8' without the mdf or drywall to help absorb more sound. In total there will be 12'-15' of flex duct feeding the theater.

Currently there is about 7'-8' of flex duct in the theater that will be wrapped in MDF, Drywall and insulation and then another 6'-8' of flex duct on the other side of the wall. I can continue the joist lining in the other room but the joists pass above a beam where the wall is and then continue on the other side. There is a very small section above the beam where I wouldn't be able to treat because there isn't room (the duct barely fits through the opening), but could continue it on the other side. I could probably even continue it a bit further if needed giving me a total of around 18' from where the duct attaches to the boot.

Thanks Ted. The vents are my one weak spot. Everything else including electrical is contained within the sealed room. Unfortunately, due to a low ceiling height, I don't have the ability to run the ducts within the room.

I guess I will have to contain it as much as possible and hope for the best.

Not really off topic since I have discussed it. They pop up on Craig's list frequently. It really depends on how big of a cooler you want. I have found a couple of 2 keg (1/2 barrel) coolers for $400-$700 dollars. Just not exactly what I wanted. I am holding off for a nice stainless one that isn't too old. The single keg "kegerators" tend to go for a lot more money. I have also found sever very large coolers (4 keg and larger) for really cheap, but that is way too big for me.

If you want new, they are out there, but you will pay a few thousand dollars for one and most places will not sell to residential customers.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss coolers further.

Wow, I had to dig to page 6 to find my thread . Things have been crazy. I was traveling and had a wedding to go to that next weekend. Things began to spiral from there. I spent a week finding a new car for my wife. We had been talking about it and looking for a while, but finally decided to pull the trigger. Glad that's over. Just when I thought things were back to normal, work got really busy and didn't have much time for the basement.

Today I finally blocked out some time and got some work done. I finished the second HVAC boot, plus I caulked both and added the layer of GG and 5/8 drywall. They are drying now. Then I just need to attach the face to each and mount them. Once that is complete, I have one more boot to make for the cold air return.

I'm guessing I won't have much time to work on the theater this week. I will hopefully be down there again next weekend. I was hoping to be ready for drywall by Thanksgiving, but that isn't looking likely at this point.

I set aside some time to work on the theater today and got a lot accomplished. Here is what I finished up today:

• I got all of the cross braces insulated
• I finished stapling all of the insulation
• I put the remaining insulation in with the exception of the corner where the cold air return box will be mounted and the corner where the wires enter the theater ceiling.
• I mounted the two HVAC supply boots

I didn't mount the faces of the HVAC boots yet because I want to make sure everything is hooked up and working correctly before sealing them up. The boxes are a tight fit, but there is a 1/4" gap on either side and a 1" gap on the top. Hopefully this will be enough to isolate them from the joists and ceiling above. I used 4 isolation clips (two on each side) to mount the boots.








When I turned on the air to test the boots, it didn't feel like there was a lot of air flowing through them, but this may because the openings are so big compared to a standard boot. Also, I don't have my bypass valve hooked up yet, so the basement is running with the first floor right now, so there is slightly less flow. Once complete, the theater will be on its own zone. I will install the bypass and thermostat to complete the testing before closing everything up.


I still need to make the boot for the cold air return. Hopefully I will have time to work on it next weekend. I also need to decide what I want to do in the corner where all of the wires enter the theater (supply line for sub panel and whole house audio wiring). I may do some extra insulation and dampening in that corner.


There are a couple other items to complete before starting drywall:

• close up the boxes that wrap the supply lines.
• run the thermostat wire into the theater
• run the fire alarm wire into the theater
• test the network connection that is in the theater

Definitely getting closer, but not quite there.

How embarrassing - the old thread warning . It has been 2 months since I posted, but the theater build came to a screeching halt due to work. I am finally ready to get things back on track. Tomorrow a friend and I will be hanging the whisper clips and hat channel on the ceiling. I will post some pictures when we are done.

Because I have fallen behind (again), I have decided I am going to pay someone to hang the drywall and do the mudding. The friend who is helping me tomorrow is a contractor, so he had his drywall guy give me a quote. If all goes well, I will have him hang the drywall in the next few weeks. I am also going to have him give me a quote on the theater door. He works with a custom mill shop that does amazing work. He ordered the french doors for my home office and they were great quality for less money than Home Depot wanted for their cheapest set.

We finally got the whisper clips and hat channel installed today. It took a lot longer for us to get it done than I thought it would. We started at 7:00am and finished at 5:00pm (with an hour for lunch). We lost about an hour because my friend's self leveling laser decided it didn't want to turn on. Luckily, I was able to repair it while he got started cutting some of the mounting blocks.

The main reason it took so long was because I decided to recess the clips to maximize the ceiling height. The bottom of the hat channel is now 1/2 inch below the lowest point on the joists. I know it was a lot of work to save just under two inches, but my finished height is only going to be around 7' 6", so every inch counts.

Here is a diagram from the Sound Proofing Company detailing how to recess the clips (Thanks Ted and John!):






We decided that the best way to go about mounting the clips and channel was to start by finding the lowest point in the room. We did this by mounting the laser high on the wall so that it shot a level line all the way around the room. We then moved throughout the room measuring the distance between the laser line and the bottom of the joists. We discovered that there was about a 3/8" difference between the highest and lowest measurement. We then worked our way across the room mounting the blocks and clips by measuring up from the laser line to the bottom of the mounting block. It was slow going at first, but we had it down to a pretty good system by the end.

In the end, I was short a few clips because we had to deal with a section of the ceiling where the joists changed direction and ran perpendicular to the other joists. With a little math and creativity we were able to overcome the problem, but I will need to order a couple more clips and mount them when they arrive.



I am now one step closer to drywall. There are a couple of things I want to do before drywall:

• Mount the last of the clips once they arrive.
• Build a small soffit/bump-out out of angled sheet metal so that the drywall is not coupled to the beam. This will be hidden inside the soffit when the room is done, but will prevent the drywall from being coupled to the beam.
• Order and mount the theater door. I need to do some research on wide throw hinges.

I'm guessing that 99% of the people who see what I did would say it isn't worth it, but I have been taking the attitude that I want to do as much as I can so I don't second guess my decision later. Anything in the structure of the theater will not be easy to change later, so I figure I should make it right now. The other thing with recessing the clips is that the cost was basically the same. I would have had to buy the clips and hat channel anyway, so it was really only a matter of more time.

With regards to the diffusers, you should be able to order them and have sent directly to your house. The place I bought them from was only 20 minutes away, but I ordered them over the phone, he sent me the exact details for me to confirm my order and then they were shipped directly to my house from the manufacturer. If you are interested, PM me and I will give you their contact info.

Thanks Mike. I'm excited to be moving forward again.

Why does it seem like every time I feel that I am ready for drywall I think of 10 more things I want to get done before I start.

The good news is that I think I finally have a complete list of what needs to be done and I am making progress towards completing it. This weekend I finally finished sealing up the flex ducts for the supply lines. I was also able to test the air flow to make sure they were working properly and closed up the dead vents I built between the joists.



I still need to caulk the joints, but I am waiting to do all of my final caulking at once.

I also trimmed and fit the face plates for the supply boots. I also shot some flat black paint on the edges just to make sure you couldn't see up through the diffusers. They aren't permanently mounted yet because I want to put them in place, mount the diffusers and check the air flow as well as the noise level. Once I do this, I will glue them in place.



I have the boots mounted so that there is a 1/4" gap between the bottom of the faceplate and the top of the drywall. I plan to run a thick bead of acoustic caulk around the perimeter of the opening to seal the boot to the top of the drywall. The boots are mounted using RSIC clips, so they aren't coupled to the joists.

I still have one corner to insulate where the air return line enters the theater. I also need to run and test a phone line, smoke detector wire and the thermostat wire. If I can knock these things out, I think I am finally ready for drywall. With any luck I will be done by next weekend. Then I can order my Green Glue and drywall.

I have been thinking a lot lately about hanging my own drywall to save some money, but I know how long it has taken me to get this far. If I pay my friend to do it, it will be done within a couple of days. He helped me hand the hat channel, so he fully understands the GG, acoustic caulk and alternating layers of drywall.

Thanks Jim. You definitely aren't stealing anything if you use some of the ideas shown in my thread. I got many of my ideas from other threads. That is one of the reasons we post here. Do you have a thread started yet?

The diffusors were purchased locally, but manufactured by a company called Price. They make all of their equipment to order. Even though they were ordered locally, I actually ended up ordering them over the phone and they were shipped directly to my house by Price. I am really happy with them, but there are other options as well. Some people have made their own. Others have ordered products that come in standard sizes.

Feel free to contact me if you have questions about running the HVAC the way I did, or anything else regarding maximizing space.

Time for me to go watch the game as well...