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Nick's Homebrew Bar and Entertainment Area - Page 20

post #571 of 1235
Thread Starter 
In that last picture with the door, I just realized the last support is not in place. It is pretty long, so it is closer to the door. I think the integrated step is the way to go, but something still isn't quite right. I am wondering if the curve is to much/extreme? I'm wondering how it would look if it was more subtle so it doesn't come so far forward on the ends. I am trying to find some more pictures of curved risers. I know Mario's riser is curved, but his steps extend forward. I will keep looking.
post #572 of 1235
Maybe you should mock it up with the steps/area outside the seat straight, but along the same trajectory of the curve - tracing the tangent instead of continuing the actual curve. It will save that space near the door. Might look weird, though - but it'll look different with the seats in position as well.

Fred
post #573 of 1235
Are you using curved seating? Why not make the curve match that of the seating and square off the steps:



Tim
post #574 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Your timing couldn't have been better Tim! I have been thinking about this option all afternoon. At lunch today I was digging through some theater pictures and saw that this is what Art Sonneborn did on his theater, and it looked good. My plan was to go home tonight and mock it up.

To answer the rest of your question, yes - I am using two rows of 4 curved seats. While I don't have the actual seats yet (on order), I got the measurements on the curve from one of the other AVS members.
post #575 of 1235
Thread Starter 
No mock-ups tonight. I thought before I cut up much more wood, I should come up with a plan. I did some digging through the forums and came up with some curved risers that look really good.

Old Vic theater:



Sandman's theater:



I apologize to the owner of this theater, but I don't remember the name:



And, of course there is Mario's theater. I love this riser, but this design would take up too much room in my theater:



I still have some measuring to do, but I am leaning towards this type of riser with an integrated step.
post #576 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Maybe you should mock it up with the steps/area outside the seat straight, but along the same trajectory of the curve - tracing the tangent instead of continuing the actual curve. It will save that space near the door. Might look weird, though - but it'll look different with the seats in position as well.
Fred

Fred, I think I know what you mean, but not quite sure. Can you draw a sketch?
post #577 of 1235
This is plan view, and hopefully makes sense. Depending on the radius of the arc, the difference between the curved and straight steps may be more or less. It doesn't look like much here, but it may make a big difference in ease of construction and ease of use.
post #578 of 1235
If I take a straight edge to my curved step, the largest gap is about 3/4". So there wasn't much difference between going straight and the curve. But when I look at it, you definitely know that it does have some curve to it.
post #579 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Fred. Now I understand what you were saying.

Mario, how did you calculate your curve? Did you use a formula, or did you just eyeball it? Something tells me the curve was very calculated wink.gif
post #580 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Thanks Fred. Now I understand what you were saying.
Mario, how did you calculate your curve? Did you use a formula, or did you just eyeball it? Something tells me the curve was very calculated wink.gif

I brought in the Berkline overhead view of the front row chairs into my 3D software and matched their curve by drawing an oval that spanned the width of the room. I didn't go with a true circle which kept the stairs from keeping any further into the room.

Then I took various measurements from within my 3D software off each wall to caclulate some key points to follow. The entire room follows this same curve.
post #581 of 1235
I just eyeballed mine. wink.gif
post #582 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

I didn't go with a true circle which kept the stairs from keeping any further into the room.

I think that is the secret. The circle causes the ends to stick out into the room too far. Just one more detail in your theater that makes it so amazing.
post #583 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Before posting my weekend update, I wanted to give a HUGE thanks to Mr. Tim for helping me out. I was really struggling with the design for the curve on the face of my riser. I just wasn't happy with anything I was coming up with. He helped me out by modeling a few different measurements for me so I could quickly mock up and test some of my ideas. With that said, I think I finally have a winner!

I had a lot going on this weekend, but I was able to sneak into the basement for a while both yesterday and today. I made some really good progress. The best part was finishing the curve and steps on the face of the riser. I finally found a design that doesn't stick way out into the room, but allows me to have a curved step coming off the front of the riser. I really like the way it turned out. It isn't easy to see in the pictures, but the curve on the steps follows the curve on the riser face.







I do have one question. The plywood that I used for the face of the riser steps was a leftover piece from some of the other curves. The two step faces are between 1/8" and 1/4" shorter than the 2x4 supports used for the step. Should I just cut new step faces that are the full height, or will this small gap not make a difference once the tread is put on? I just don't want to cause issues with the carpet install.

The other item that I decided to tackle today was putting the sand in the stage. I started by cutting up a roll of 6 mil plastic. My original plan was to put two bags of sand into each cavity and let them dry for a couple of days before adding a couple more bags. Fortunately, the sand I bought was bone dry and the extra drying time is not needed. So far I have 4 bags of sand in each cavity. I am now working my way back through and using a 8"x8" piece of plywood and a 4 lb hand sledge to tamp down the sand. I'm not really hitting the plywood, but just dropping the sledge onto the board to compact the sand. I am then going to go back through to trim the plastic and top off the sand.





I feel like I am finally making some progress with the stage and riser. Hopefully this week I will have time to put in more sand. I also want to finish my planning for any wiring that will go into the riser.

I have several rolls of R19 insulation left over from the ceiling in the other part of the basement. Will that be OK for the riser, or do I want something thicker/higher R value?
post #584 of 1235
Excellent progress! I would say that your gap is fine. On my riser I have different carpet on the sides than I do on the top. If you are doing the same carpet all over I would imaging they would just "roll over" the carpet from the tread to the face which would cover the gap without issue. You could always call a carpet installer and ask. I did this on a couple of occasions just to make sure what I was thinking was something they could do or work around.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #585 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks RTRose. I think I will do that. They were so close I thought I would use them so I wouldn't have to cut up another sheet of plywood. Then I started second guessing my decision.
post #586 of 1235
Looks great, Nick. The curve is perfect.

Typically you will have some trim below the tread which will hide the small gap. You could also caulk, or do nothing. Unless somebody has their head 3-1/2" above the floor you'll never notice. Mario nailed a small piece of stock to the bottom of the tread.

Tim
post #587 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post


quote]

I have seen people fill the entire stage (minus the shorter first step), including the odd shaped cavities in the front, with sand. It looks like you are not planning to. I am at the same point as you and was debating whether I needed to fill these or not. What was your thinking behind not filling them? To me it seems like the sand is intended for areas that will have subs/speakers sitting on top of them. Since these areas will not it doesn't seem like the sand would be required. Thoughts??
post #588 of 1235
Thread Starter 
As of right now, I am only planning to put sand in the main cavities. The purpose of the sand is to add mass and absorb the energy from the speakers and sub. I would think you only need to put the sand under the main portion of the stage. My plan is to put insulation in the remaining cavities. With that said, if I have extra sand, I will probably begin filling some of the cavities on the front of the stage. I think the key is to ensure that none of the cavities are empty to prevent sound issues such as echo.

I also plan to have two layers of 3/4" OSB with GG between the layers.
post #589 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

As of right now, I am only planning to put sand in the main cavities. The purpose of the sand is to add mass and absorb the energy from the speakers and sub. I would think you only need to put the sand under the main portion of the stage. My plan is to put insulation in the remaining cavities. With that said, if I have extra sand, I will probably begin filling some of the cavities on the front of the stage. I think the key is to ensure that none of the cavities are empty to prevent sound issues such as echo.
I also plan to have two layers of 3/4" OSB with GG between the layers.

That's what I did. The main part is filled with sand, the steps and funky shapes are just stuffed with fiberglass. Two layer 3/4 w/ greenglue. I am contemplating adding a 3rd layer (just a rectangular piece 2x8) to put the subs on.. depending on whether or not I have anything left over.

Sure, you can fill every little bit with sand, but at some point you have a diminishing return. The speakers will be on the main stage, so that would be the most important, I would think.

After hauling about 80 bags of sand, it becomes very clear that it is not necessary to fill the step.. whether it is or not. smile.gif
post #590 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

After hauling about 80 bags of sand, it becomes very clear that it is not necessary to fill the step.. whether it is or not. smile.gif

I have no idea what you are talking about. Moving it was no big deal... At least that is what the neighbor boys who moved it for me told me biggrin.gif
post #591 of 1235
Thread Starter 
As predicted, I had very little time over the past week to work on the theater. I'm expecting that to continue through next weekend. I did get a little bit of time in and put a few more bags of sand in the stage and trimmed the plastic on half of the stage cavities.

With my recent progress on the room, I have started planning for some of my upcoming purchases. Not that I am ready to pull the trigger on most of these items right now, but I need to make some decisions for planning purposes. Here is a list of some of the things I have started to think about along with a few questions.

  1. Speakers - I am seriously considering buying speakers from Salk Signature Sound for my entire theater. If you haven't had a chance to listen to any of their speakers, do yourself a favor and do so. They are amazing. They have a specific theater line of speakers that I am looking at. My biggest concern is with the depth of the surrounds. They are fairly deep which would require them to stick out fairly far into the room. I sent Jim a note to see if there are any options that would make the speaker shallower and maybe wider or taller. If this isn't possible, what are some other speakers I should be considering?
  2. Projectors - I have no idea what I am going to do for a projector, but I may actually be close enough that the new models that are just coming out will still be available when I make my purchase. I am planning for CIH. Most likely I will use a lens. I have thought about Runco, but many people on the forums don't seem to like them. The few people who own them seem to love them.
  3. Screen - mostly considering SMX curved screen. Having followed Ruben's build from when he started through the creation of these screens, I will most likely support him when I make a purchase.
  4. Racked equipment - Lots of ideas here - plenty of time to decide.

Am I missing anything I need to plan for now?
post #592 of 1235
I'm holding out for some reviews on the new JVC rs48, may be worth looking into.


Chase "Fetch"
post #593 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Thanks Fetch. I will definitely look into the new JVC.

I decided to spend a bit of time in the basement tonight while the rest of the family was busy with other things. I got the rest of the plastic trimmed on the stage. Now I just need to finish compacting and filling the sand.
post #594 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Not much to report. Things are still very hectic, but I am hoping things will settle down after this weekend.

I did get 8 more bags of sand put into the stage last night. I now have the first two cavities completely filled and leveled. I need a little less than one bag for each of the remaining cavities. It looks like I am going to have several bags left, so I am planning to fill some of the curved cavities at the front of the stage. I don't know if it will make much of a difference, but it sure beats dragging the extra bags back out of the basement biggrin.gif.

I also ordered 300 ft of 12 gauge wire from mono price today. I am going to run wiring to each of the chairs for buttkickers (although I only plan to install the buttkickers in the first row for now). I am also going to run wiring to both sides of the riser just in case I decide to put a sub in the back of the theater in the future.I will install the plates in the rear corners where they aren't likely to be seen. I think I have enough electrical wiring left from the rest of the basement to wire the riser. The only other items I need to purchase to finish up the riser are some adjustable boxes and step lights.
post #595 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I am also going to run wiring to both sides of the riser just in case I decide to put a sub in the back of the theater in the future.I will install the plates in the rear corners where they aren't likely to be seen.
What sort of detail have you planned for here? I was looking at doing the same thing in a few places and was trying to weight the possibilities. Will you leave the wire long and just coil it up behind a blank cover in a low-voltage box? Do you plan on terminating at some kind of keystone jack (banana plug or whatever)? Or just cut it to length for a wall plate and leave a blank plate for the now?
post #596 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

I am also going to run wiring to both sides of the riser just in case I decide to put a sub in the back of the theater in the future.I will install the plates in the rear corners where they aren't likely to be seen..
Be sure to run digital coax or some sort of cable for powered subs, like a couple Submersives smile.gif
Also, consider running speaker wire to locations to cover wide front, high front, rear center, or other speaker pairs for 7.1/9.1/11.1/etc surround formats, if you have any possible desire to do those in the future.

Geordon
post #597 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

What sort of detail have you planned for here? I was looking at doing the same thing in a few places and was trying to weight the possibilities. Will you leave the wire long and just coil it up behind a blank cover in a low-voltage box? Do you plan on terminating at some kind of keystone jack (banana plug or whatever)? Or just cut it to length for a wall plate and leave a blank plate for the now?

Fred,

Right now I am only planning to run power for the riser and wires for any speakers that will sit on the riser (subs, buttkickers, etc.) I don't know exactly what I will need, but I plan to run the wires longer than needed and put a blank cover plate on the box to hide them for now. I can then add a connecter/keystone and new face plate later. I guess I am doing some future proofing now, but who knows what I will need in 5 years.
post #598 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon View Post

Be sure to run digital coax or some sort of cable for powered subs, like a couple Submersives smile.gif
Also, consider running speaker wire to locations to cover wide front, high front, rear center, or other speaker pairs for 7.1/9.1/11.1/etc surround formats, if you have any possible desire to do those in the future.
Geordon

Thanks Geordon. I didn't even think about digital coax. Of course my order has probably already been processed rolleyes.gif. I am planning to run 7.1 initially, but will probably go ahead and run the wiring for 9.1 now. All of my speaker wire (except subs) will be run through the soffit, so I won't be running those quite yet.
post #599 of 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Not much to report. Things are still very hectic, but I am hoping things will settle down after this weekend.
I did get 8 more bags of sand put into the stage last night. I now have the first two cavities completely filled and leveled. I need a little less than one bag for each of the remaining cavities. It looks like I am going to have several bags left, so I am planning to fill some of the curved cavities at the front of the stage. I don't know if it will make much of a difference, but it sure beats dragging the extra bags back out of the basement biggrin.gif.
I also ordered 300 ft of 12 gauge wire from mono price today. I am going to run wiring to each of the chairs for buttkickers (although I only plan to install the buttkickers in the first row for now). I am also going to run wiring to both sides of the riser just in case I decide to put a sub in the back of the theater in the future.I will install the plates in the rear corners where they aren't likely to be seen. I think I have enough electrical wiring left from the rest of the basement to wire the riser. The only other items I need to purchase to finish up the riser are some adjustable boxes and step lights.

Jeez.. you didn't even carry the sand down there and you're complaining about carrying a few bags up? smile.gif

Remember you'll probably wire the buttkickers in parallel or series parallel if you have the buttkicker amp. So you may not need wires to each one. Although the extra wires could be repurposed for more subs.

+1 on the coax for powered subs.. you could diy some subs with a bash plate amp to take advantage of that in the future.. and coax is way cheaper than 12ga speaker wire.

Tim
post #600 of 1235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Jeez.. you didn't even carry the sand down there and you're complaining about carrying a few bags up? smile.gif

Why do I have a feeling I am never going to hear the end of this biggrin.gif.

Yes, there are lots of options for the wiring. Are buttkickers typically wired in parallel? If not, I will probably go ahead and run wires to each chair just in case and then coax to each rear corner of the riser for future use. The unused wires can remain hidden under a cover plate.
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