3D projectors with Nvidia Graphics card issue -Alternate HTPC ideas inside - Page 8

Wow your experience is almost EXACTLY like mine. I first tried 3D on my RS40 with an AMD 5770 card and was really surprised at how much ghosting there was, given the gushing ghost-free feedback early in the RS40 thread, so I chalked it up to the 5xxx cards not officially supporting HDMI 1.4, and got an Nvidia 450 card to test. With the Nvidia card, the ghosting seems to be almost the same...maybe a slight improvement. I do prefer the auto-switch into 3D mode that the AMD cards have, so you dont have to go into the driver and switch your whole desktop into 3D for no reason.

From my observation, it seems that the objects that have ghosting are the ones with more pronounced 3D pop-out effect.

I recall that Avatar appear to have a mostly "deep" style of 3D instead of an "in your face" feeling, which is probably why it doesn't show the ghosting on the RS40 that other movies do.

Despicable Me was pretty disappointing, because the things that are really supposed to pop out at you tend to just seem like they "go cross-eyed" instead of coming farther towards you. However, the shallow 3D effects looked great! Gru's pointy nose was always perfect throughout the movie.

I know it's probably the panel variance between projectors and probably not fixable even with a JVC firmware update, but I'm still holding onto some hope that it is a HTPC software player thing. Someone mentioned that standalone bluray players have a "screen size" adjustment that I haven't found in the video card drivers or the software player interface.

If TMT5's 3D playback was designed around small-size computer monitors and short viewing distances, maybe that could explain why "shallow" 3D looks great but anything that tries to pop-out further seems to hit a wall and starts doubling up/ghosting and crossing over into itself. With my 92" screen, I'd say things generally look good up until they try to pop out more than 3 feet off of the screen. I really need to borrow a PS3 or some other player though. I just can't believe there would be so much variation between units that some people would get an amazing experience while others are left with a "see, I told you this 3D stuff was just a gimmick, put on the 2D version!" taste in their mouth.

All that being said, I've only tested Despicable Me, Alice, and the first 10 minutes of RE4. I'll have to test the movies people mention being ghost-free, such as Avatar and the owl movie.

Thanks J5 and Zoombie for your responses. I decided to go buy a Asus 6850 to test last night and swap out my Nvidia 460. I plugged it in, uninstalled all nvidia stuff, and downloaded the latest catalyst 11.2 drivers. To my surprise, the ghosting is much much better. The opening scene of IMAX under the sea where they show you some cinematics of how cool IMAX is, I use to see a lot of ghosting but no more. I use to see ghosting throughout under the sea but no more. There is still some ghosting but it is a lot better with the 6850. I'm not sure if its the drivers or the actual card itself. Either way, I'm going to keep it. I tested it out on despicable me and under the sea so far and both look much better.

For those who are curious, I do have an old 1.3 onkyo receiver and I was able to run the hdmi to receiver and dvi/hdmi to the projector and both HD sound and 3D picture worked perfectly so far. I need to do more testing but so far so good. I did have to leave the desktop on 1080p 24. What happens is that if I keep the desktop on 1080p 60 and do the appropriate scaling to my liking on the ATI control panel, it would not keep that scaling when it switched to 1080p 24 for 3D bluray. However, if I leave the desktop on 1080p 24 and do the scaling. The scaling remains the same for bluray, 3d bluray, and DVD.

Also, I think the 3D depth seems just a little bit deeper to me. If someone else will try this out and let me know your feedback too would be nice.

The only downfall I noticed so far is the shawdow detail on dark scenes is not as good as the Nvidia 460. I notice less detail even if I play with the brightness and contrast level. I will test this some more but to me, this is a minor detail.

In conclusion, I would recommend anyone not runing a 6xxx ATI to try it with this RS40/X3 projector to see if ghosting is improved. I'm running PDVD 10 latest version and patch. I have not tried tmt5 so I cannot comment. I think the ghosting now is as good as it was on my optoma GT720.

This sounds like a timing issue to me. What sort of scaling are you doing? Perhaps scaling is introducing enough of a signal delay to cause the shutter glasses timing to be off.

Have anyone been able play games that are NVIDIA 3D Vision with any of the new 3D JVC projectors

Which part are you referring to that might be a timing issue? As for the scaling, I will test it later with no scaling and with scaling if it makes a difference on ghosting. I set the ATI control panel to 0% which results in the biggest image

I haven't tried this exactly but I did try watching a 3D bluray with the Nvidia glasses and emitter and that did not work. I tried Nvidia glasses with JVC emitter, that did not work either.

Scaling to 100% isn't really scaling. It should be giving you 1:1 pixel mapping to the JVC (which also shouldn't involve any sort of processing delay). I thought maybe you were using the scaling control to adjust the image size or framing.

By "timing issue," I meant that perhaps some sort of delay was being introduced to toggle the shutter glasses off and on. I don't know how that could be happening, but then again I don't really understand why you would be seeing so much more ghosting with the nVidia card in the first place. If both cards are outputting the same 24fp signal, the results should be identical. But, hey, that's why computers can be so frustrating. So many things can go wrong and screw us up.

Thanks....I was definitely not doing anything this technical and like you said, just scaling on the ATI control panel. My theory is that it's Nvidia's drivers....one previous post said he tried contacting Nvidia and they said they could not help him because the RS40 is not on their approved projector list yet. My former projector optoma GT720 was on the Nvidia approved projector list and the ghosting was minimal. My guess is that if/when Nvidia gets a driver that certifies the RS40, ghosting will be improved. I dont want to wait since the alternate solution, ATI 6850 is noticeably better right now.

This is the best news I've heard in a while! Thanks for sharing. I'm constantly fighting with this Nvidia card for simple things that worked like clockwork on the ATI card. The nvidia wouldnt even go into 3D mode at ALL yesterday. I'm going to get rid of it and get a 6850.


Wow, its nice to know that the 3D works even through DVI>HDMI. This is great news for AMD/ATI users with hdmi 1.3 AVRs who don't want to sacrifice HD audio for 3D.


From what I've seen with my own HTPC ghosting, it was obvious that it was occurring on things that were displayed with more depth. The more an object is supposed to pop out in front or go deep behind the screen, the more I start seeing double instead of seeing the extra depth. The 3D effect that actually works just always looks a bit "shallow" to me as a result.

Now that you've seemed to fix the problem (whatever it was), It sounds like you are seeing 3D properly the way other users with standalone players are seeing it, with ghosting being more of a random issue based on colors and not a function of the 3D pop-out effect/depth.

Are there any 3D options in the ATI CCC with the 6850?



What Pixel Format are you using? You could try switching between RGB and YCbCr to see if that eliminates the problem. There was an obvious difference in low levels when I used YCrCb on the ATI 5xxx card. However, with a DVI>HDMI dongle, the 5xxx card does not give me ANY pixel format options and defaults to RGB Full. Are you able to change the pixel format on the 6850 with your projector connected via DVI>HDMI adapter?

And also, are you connecting the PJ and AVR the same way that you did with the Nvidia card?

J5, glad my post was able to help. I'm going to try and answer all your questions...let me know if I miss anything.

There are no 3D options I'm aware of on ATI's control panel. There is one for 3D depth on powerdvd but I think that only applies for 2D upconversion to 3D which I dont care about cuz it does not look good to me....rather watch the 2D movie.

I figured out my shadow detail problem. I had to adjust the video picture settings on the ATI control panel instead of letting pdvd do it. By adjusting the brightness and contrast, I was able to get the same shadow detail as the nvidia.

As for connecting it to the 1.3 onkyo, it was the exact opposite of the Nvidia. The nvidia only worked for me when I connected hdmi to projector and dvi/hdmi to receiver. For the 6850, it is the other way around. I did have a weird random bug today when I powered down my system and back up. I could not get the sound to work. The fix after about an hour of troubleshooting was to go to sound under control panel, locate the AMD HDMI sound and double click and then go to level. Somehow my hdmi out was set to 0, changed it back to 100 and all works again.

I was also able to get the desktop to be on 1080 60 and switch to 1080 24fp for 3D and maintain the scaling on the ATI control panel. The fix was to set the desktop to 1080 60 and then scale to desired size on ATI control panel. After that, switch desktop to 1080 24 and then do the same scaling. Now switch back to 1080 60 and when it switches to 1080 24fp for 3D movies, it will maintain the same picture size.

Lastly, I did some more testing on 3D ghosting. I'm 100% that under the sea 3D looks much better on the 6850 then Nvidia 460. I cannot say for certain with Despicable Me or others. I rewatched some of despicable me and still noticed ghosting but if my memory serves me correctly, it seemed less. I also watched space station in 3D for the first time, noticed some ghosting. Since I did not watch it on the 460, I cannot say if it was better or not. Net net, I still think it is better and remain hopeful that future drivers will improve ghosting even more.

I'll probably hang onto the 460 just in case Nvidia release drivers that certifies the RS40 as an approved projector. I just want the least amount of ghosting without having to go up to the RS50

I do not experience any more ghosting with Nvidia 430 compared to the Ati 6850 of a friend with similar setup or a panasonic BR3D I tested in my system. The only issue so far with the Nvidia is that it cannot output 1080p 23,976 in 3D mode, but even this does not create any hickups. The problem you mention must have a different cause..

bachuka, thanks for your reply.

Out of curiosity, did you swap the cables when you changed cards or leave the same cables plugged into the projector and AVR and simply swap the DVI>HDMI adapter on the computer side?

The reason I ask is because of the off-chance that the bad ghosting/depth problem you had (and I am currently having) could be related to the cable used to transport the 1080p(FP) to the projector. If the cable is the same, its just one more variable that I don't have to worry about making a difference for this particular issue (and more proof that the 6850 fixed it)

I used the same cables, however, the DVI/HDMI use to go to the receiver and hdmi went to projector. Now its the DVI/HDMI that goes to the projector and hdmi to receiver. I would prefer hdmi to projector, however, the receiver did not like dvi/hdmi from the 6850....weird.

I'm going to do more testing and put back in the nvidia 460 card and check out certain scences in Under the Sea 3D and compare it against the ATI 6850. More to come soon. Plus there are new beta drivers for nvidia I want to check out too.

I used this exact same HDMI cable when I had my optoma GT720 which is still the best from a ghosting perspective I've seen so I dont think its the cable.

Well I went ahead and got an AMD 6850 and sure enough, the 3D is fixed!

Whereas only certain parts of the image looked 3D to me before, now everything is three dimensional, even if there is some ghosting in the image.

The overall experience is MUCH improved, and I now feel like the ghosting is within tolerance, judging by what other RS40 owners are saying about the various 3D movies out there. Despicable Me still is ghosting all over the place, but now has much more depth and sharpness.

I connected it exactly like bachuka did: DVI>HDMI>projector, HDMI>Onkyo AVR.

I actually never tried 3D through the DVI>HDMI adpater on my ATI 5770 card. I should probably but that card back in and try it. It would be pretty funny if the DVI adapter was the thing that fixed the 3D. I somehow doubt it though. It's probably some kind of timing issue, and the 6xxx cards sync better with the RS40--well at least mine and bachuka's. takisot must have gotten a unit with slightly faster panels or something.

I don't think so.. I told you I have tested it with another JVC (X9) with similar results.
It is more possible that there is a screw up in your HTPC configuration with Nvidia drivers or something else, that for me to have a "golden" JVC sample...

I'm glad I was able to help. I did notice a weird bug for me where I had to have the PC fully booted before I can turn on the receiver. If I turn on the receiver sooner, the sound would not work. I guess its an acceptable workaround so I dont have to buy a 1.4 receiver.

I'm not suggesting that yours is a golden sample, I just mean that my RS40 does not sync with different 3D bluray players as well as yours does, and that the reason is unknown. Some people have attributed the observed differences in ghosting to panel variance. I can believe the amount of ghosting I am seeing NOW with the 6850 card could be attributed to panel variance, but what I was seeing before was much worse than that.

For me, it wasn't just Nvidia. The ATI 5770 had the same problem as the Nvidia 450 card. I also tried the 5770 card in someone else's htpc with a different hdmi cord and much bigger screen and the result was exactly the same. The one thing i haven't tried is putting the 5770 back in and installing the recent 11.2 catalyst drivers. I'll swap back to the 5770 to see if the driver alone fixed the 3D problem and not the 6850 hardware.

I'm guessing its the hardware though. Comparing the 5770 and the 6850 cards, It is obvious that the 3D support is more mature on the 6xxx cards. It switches into (FP) mode much more quickly, and also can show the 3D movie in a window. By contrast, the 5xxx card could only display frame packed 3D while in exclusive full screen mode.

And in comparison to Nvidia, even though the drivers still do not include any "setup" things for stereoscopic 3D like Nvidia does, the AMD 6xxx cards just seem more adept at switching between 2d and 3d modes.

Bachuka, is your AVR set as display #2 and is the desktop extended to it (not duplicated)?

Yes, my AVR is the second monitor and it is set to extend not duplicate.

Will a ATI HD6870 work just as good as hd6850 for JVC RS-40?

It should work the same.

An update is now available from NVIDIA which allows their cards to work with the new JVC 3D projectors.

Details are available from:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3dtv-pl...ty-driver.html

Interesting, thanks!
Do you know what problem they fix? I ask because I was using my Nvidia 430 with my JVC X3 without any problems except that I could not get 1080p 23.976 with 3D (only 1080p24).

Ah, I just noticed this is not a driver. So this is only for games?

Great I been trying to play games every since December on my RS40 with no luck. Can't wait to get home to try it

So which card work the best with rs40, gtx460 or hd6850?

Has anyone had any experience with possibly downloading shows from hulu or anything else to watch on computer for 3d upconversion??

Nvidia released a new driver 267.59. With this version, you have to install 3D support separately via another driver 266.21. I wonder and hope that the 3D configuration experience is different and like AMD where 3D FP is enabled only when 3D content is played.

The HDMI driver version is still at 1.1.13.1 so no updates there.

I've never gotten 3D working with the RS40 and the computer. (I had other issues come up and didn't have a lot of time to work on it.) Every time I try to activate 3D, it offers up instructions that seem aimed only at 3D Vision users. Can someone take me through this step by step, with either PowerDVD 10 or Total Media Theater 5 for playback?

I have an nVidia 450 and both PowerDVD 10 and Total Media Theater 5.

yeah, that's the problem. You have to go that wizard so that Nvidia knows how your glasses work and then the desktop is left in that mode. to back to 2D you have to disable 3D. Then the next time you want to watch 3D, you have to go back through the wizard again. Very poor execution continues at Nvidia.

Hi, I have a htpc running ati 6850 mainly for gaming. The games i play are car simulators like F1 2010. Looking at purchasing a jvc x3. Is there any issues with using my htpc with the x3 at all?