Assassin's Simple/Beginner HTPC Buying Guide - Page 470

Techincally yes, although you can buy cable sets that combine 6 or 8 RCA cables into a single jacketed package, but it will have that many connectors on each end.

Bitstreaming means sending the audio bit for bit perfect as it is in the file. Without any interaction from windows. But the non hd dts and Dolby digital is still compressed or lossy.

But dang your right I totally forgot optical only does 2.0 pcm. So your right if you want real surround sound you want to send digital to the receiver.

Your receiver may have analog audio. Which you might need a sound card for unless your board has multi channel a analog. That would work too.

assuming the decode is done correctly and passed as PCM its identical.

assuming the decode is done correctly and passed as PCM its identical until it get to the AVR which may then monkey with the PCM signal.

bitstreaming is sending the raw non decoded signal to another device as is to be decoded and used. By allowing the PC to do the decoding it is doing the heavy lifting and sending the resultant PCM down..

check out this thread good conversation..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/842477/bitstream-vs-linear-pcm/0_50

Can the HTPC be dynamic in terms of what it sends over HDMI? Meaning whatever device is "receiving" the audio signal over HDMI, if this device is capable of decoding the bitstream signal then send bitstream, otherwise if the device cannot decode bitstream be smart enough to send over LPCM or PCM?

My stand alone blu-ray player (Samsung BD-P3600) says in the instructions that "if the TV is NOT compatible with compressed multi-channel formats such as DTS, then the unit may output PCM 2 channel downmixed audio even though bitstreaming is enabled."

Since my stand alone blu-ray player has this capability, it must be possible, and would like my HTPC to be "smart" enough to do the same thing.

Well I've already bought all the components, built it, and it's up and running, so I'm sticking with HTPC. I'm just trying to experiment and figure out all these idiosyncrocies BEFORE I invest all my time ripping all my content onto it.

I've played around with some different things and what I've found is that my TV must accept both DD 5.1 as well as DTS 5.1. I arrived at this conclusion because I have a DVD where the only audio track is DD 5.1, and another DVD where the only audio track is DTS 5.1, both were ripped to .mkv and the sound plays on my TV even though I have bitstreaming enabled.

So, the problem primarily is with Blu-Ray, specifically with DTS-HD. I have Star Trek ripped to .mkv and this has both Dobly True HD as well as DD 5.1 audio tracks in the .mkv file. I play this on the TV with both audio and video on HDMI with bitstreaming enabled and it plays fine, the TV outputs the sound. No problems. Either my TV can handle Dolby True HD, which I doubt since it's a TH-50PX60U, or the HTPC can determine it can't handle it and instead sends over the DD 5.1 audio track, which it can handle.

Inception on the other hand has DTS-HD and DTS 5.1 audio tracks, both included in my ripped .mkv file. I play this on the TV with both audio and video on HDMI with bitstreaming enabled and the video is choppy on the TV with no sound output.

Is there any software on the HTPC to analyze when I'm playing a file on the TV exactly which audio track is being sent over?

Does Remote Potato natively support MB? Or do you have your MB Library added in to your Videos Library?

Yah I think that it may not actually be bitstreaming dts on the dvd. Like he said very few tvs accept dts and if it did it would most likely have a dts logo on it somewhere.

When you have the tv selected and set as default audio device. You should be able to go the sound settings for it on the htpc and it will show the supported audio formats.

When you bitstream you are intentionally bypassing windows from messing with it. Changing volume doesn't even do anything. So this would probably also impede the auto switching you desire.

Also bitstreaming is something usually set in software besides windows basic audio properties. It could be possible but I don't really know a way.

Another thing I noticed is by using Graph Studio, I see the following:

Star Trek = using LAV for the audio renderer (SOUND WORKS)
In = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
In = subtype = {EB27CEC4-163E-4CA3-8B74-8E25F91B517E}
In = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Out = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
Out = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT
Out = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx"

Inception = using "Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder" for audio. (NO SOUND)
In = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
In = subtype = {00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
In = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Out = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
Out = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_IEEE_FLOAT
Out = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx"

300 = Using "ACM Wrapper" (SOUND WORKS)
In = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
In = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3
In = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Out = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
Out = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM
Out = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx"


Matrix Reloaded = using "ACM Wrapper" (SOUND WORKS)
In = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
In = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3
In = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Out = majortype = MEDIA_TYPE_Audio
Out = subtype = MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM
Out = formattype = FORMAT_WaveFormatEx"

So I'm not sure what "Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder" is doing with the audio. Wonder why only the True HD file was processed by LAV, with everything else getting run through something else. I don't see an option in LAV to specify DTS-HD, DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1.

I don't know of any tv that can handle a hd stream and not any that I have owned that do DTS. Are you sure in LAV you have it setup to not bitstream anything? Let the htpc do the deode and pass only PCM. There is a option in there to convert as well I think..

Another option is to Check out assassins guide for install of the shark007 pack. Iirc Shark will allow you to use another filter which allows selection of a different audio track.

Edit: oh yeah by the way LAV on its own cant decode DTS-HD.

You need to use ArcSoft DTS decoder, which allows decoding of full DTS-HD. Just drop the “dtsdecoderdll.dll” from the TMT3/5 Codecs directory into LAV Audio’s directory, and enjoy.
Edited by mariob33 - 8/7/12 at 7:10pm

Potato allows you to add locations where your media is stored. It is not related to MB. It does have automated process to synch with your recordedtv and video libraries in windows

Ahh, I see now. Nice. I like this a lot more compared to Plex. I had shrugged it off because I thought it defaulted to the native Videos library.

bobby2478. Sounds like your settings are borked to me. If you don't see an option for hd audio in lav it may detect that your gear doesn't support it. You definitely don't want to bitstream hd audio without a receiver that can handle it. It won't work. You should probably uninstall your codecs and try sharks. You still use lav if you want. But it gives you better control over everything. Sounds like starting over would be good.

Since your ripping some with dual audio you might want to use a splitter like haali. Which will let you select the right audio track when there are multiple. This can be set using sharks.

Or that. I don't use it so it never comes to mind.

Assassin have you switched from MB to XBMC for your daily driver at home?

My settings are just like in Assassin's guides. The setting I'm talking about isn't for bitstreaming, as I'm aware I don't want to bitstream HD audio knowing my receiver can't handle it, and it won't go out via Optical anyway. The setting I'm referring to is the associated file setting, where you specify which types of files you want LAV to process. Anything not checked means that another program will process those files, not LAV. I didn't see all the audio formats I was looking for, for files that weren't being picked up by LAV and I figured it was due to this.

Assassin, thanks for mentioning that XBMC has possibly more control over multiple audio formats, I'll have to experiment with that as well. I've been doing a lot of experimenting and reading my instruction manuals and apparently my stand alone blu-ray has a bitstream setting for optical where it will decode the incoming HD signal to PCM, then re-encode it to DTS 5.1 to send on to your receiver over Optical. Other settings include full bitstream where it passes HD signal through to HD receiver, or it can just pass over the decoded PCM.

The Graph program is hard to read and understand, so I have been trying playing different .mkv files from my HTPC and seeing which "lights" light up on my receiver. What I'm seeing is that over optical (my only choice with current equipment) my HD movies are only coming across as 2 channel PCM anyway, where all my DVD files come across as either DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1. So I'll try installing XBMC following Assasin's setup guide and experiment with that a bit too.

In the long run I will get a new receiver, but my RX-V2500 is 130w x 7, and to get anything comparable with Yamaha or Denon is going to run me about $2k, and that's not an investment I'm ready to make quite yet considering my current receiver is plenty powerful and good for my current 5.1 setup.

True, but with any high end device from top companies like Yamaha or Denon, I tend to trust them more then specs on lower end brands. The top end Yamaha and Denon receivers that use discreet amplification easily weigh close to 75 lbs, unlike "digital" amplifiers that only weigh 20 lbs. I've been into stereos my whole life and my current Yamaha is one of the few receivers I've seen where you can crank it up as loud as you want and there isn't any discernable audio distortion. With high end speakers, you definitely want plenty of power to run them, after all it isn't too much power that tends to launch voice coils, it's too much distortion.

So if anything, from what I've witnessed the wattages on high end amplifiers from reputable brands tend to be conservative with their wattage numbers, vs lower end amps that may list the same wattage but couldn't even compare to the clarity of higher end setups. The same held true back in the day with car audio amplifiers, a 100w Rockford Fosgate Punch Power series could outrun a 600W Eagle or cheap knock off amplifier any day of the week.

The key is to physically listen to whatever it is you plan on buying before you buy it. It's hard to simply take the manufacturer's word for it by purely looking at specs. 2 models with similar specs end up being completely different from each other in terms of actual performance. Of course with companies like Ultimate Electronics out of business and companies like Best Buy focusing on mainstream lower cost models, there aren't many brick and mortar stores you can go to anymore to physically get your hands on high end audio/visual equipment. Crutchfield and online are pretty much about the only places to go anymore if you want really nice (and typically pretty expensive) stuff, and then you're buying something by taking other people's word for it.

So I agree with you that you can't just trust a manufacturer's specs on wattage and base your decision on that. A $2,000 receiver that outputs 120w x 7 will easily outperform a $300 receiver that also outputs 120w x 7, considering the lower end one will likely produce lots of distortion, unlike the more expensive model with the same wattage specs which will produce clean crisp power.

I think that is a gross exaggeration. The reality is that over the past 40 years amplifier technology has improved so dramatically that today any $500 AVR will produce 100 watts of really clean power, cleaner than a 1970s vintage McIntosh did. Power is dramatically up, and distortion is extremely low in even economy models today. Which is why in the 70s it was routine to fry tweeters, and today it's nearly unheard of. Heck, stereo amps were 35 and 50 watts, and that was at 1% THD. Now every receiver you buy at Best Buy or Costco has 100w at .1%.

Plus, putting aside the subwoofer, you don't use 100w at home. And the difference between 100w and 130w isn't even discernable. In order to double the perceived loudness you need a 10db increase, which, as a general rule of thumb requires a tenfold increase in power.

And frankly, since 1974, the FTC rules on advertising consumer amplifier output have largely eliminated the total snake oil claims of "total power" "peak power", and all the other nonsense and basically require that power per channel with both channels driven from 20-20k hz at 8ohms at a stated THD level be specified, and the rules also specify certain test conditions, like using the actual production power supplies, without extra cooling, and the like.

The one thing to watch with today's multi channel amps is how many channels are driven at the rated power. Some amps won't produce the same power on the surround channels, so you need to see if it says X watts w/7 channels driven.

Yeah, I don't buy econo equipment either and have had lots of Denon, Yamaha, Luxman, Marantz, Kyocera and SonyES stuff over the years. (although Crutchfield doesn't sell, and Denon and Yamaha certainly don't make, high end gear - they're "mid-fi."mass market companeis.). And it's comforting to feel those heavier units, and they come with lots of nice features like networking and plenty of HDMI inputs, and so forth. But getting plenty of clean amplifier power today does NOT require spending a lot of money.

Now, if you want to start talking about buying Krell or Bryston or Mark Levinson or Threshold or Jeff Rowland or Classe or Conrad-Johnson or the like, that's an entirely different matter.

It does folder/file structure. So I just tell it to "share" the folder my movie are in and "share" the folder my TV shows are in.

You CANNOT bitstream HD Audio (DTS-HD or TrueHD) over SPDIF only HDMI. It is a limit of the technology. You can bitstream regular DTS and DD over SPDIF. In your LAV setup you need to uncheck DTS-HD and TrueHD so it doesn't try and send it. Same is true even if your hooked up with HDMI and your AV Receiver cannot decode HD tracks, you have to deselct them in LAV of FFDShow settings.

I know you can't bitstream HD over Optical/SPDIF, that's why I have all those settings unchecked. The thing I was trying to say was that when I use Graph Studio to render various .mkv files to see where the audio is being processed (what's coming in, what's going out), most of the time LAV isn't even picking up the audio. So regardless of what the LAV settings are, if the sound isn't being funneled through LAV, then it's a moot point.

Assasin,
I originally posted to another thread but I couldn't get this problem fixed; not sure if you saw this before so here goes. I built an I3-2100/ WMC box from your guides, then loaded LAV, media browser, channel logos and comskip- nothing out of the ordinary. I successfully performed a backup immediately after loading windows and now I'm trying to create an image since I have everything the way I want it. I'm getting a 'cannot create volume snapshot' because of a problem with volume shadow copy service. I've tried all the advice I've seen posted online and I was wondering if you had any ideas before I reload windows and blow up all my settings.

Have you tried uninstalling LAV and installing Shark007 Codec pack and using FFDShow for your audio codec? There is a guide on Assassin's blog for it. The only thing you'll have to do different is on the Audio tab click "Disable LAV" and select the SPDIF radio not HDMI then on the Misc tab in the middle drop down select FFDShow Audio. The FFDShow setup page looks just like the LAV one. Check the appropriate boxes and hit APPLY.

PM me, I ave the original setup guide that uses FFDShow instead of LAV.
Edited by Wilky13 - 8/9/12 at 9:11pm