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Panasonic DMR-EH59 (USA) Move Files to PC

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I have a Panasonic DMR-EH59 compatible for the US. When purchased had the intent of moving files from hard drive to PC. Can't find that option on setup.

Wondering if there is a way to move personally recorded video files from the hard-drive to a PC without logging them through video software.

Thanks!
Chris
post #2 of 23
The short answer, to most askers of this question, is absolutely not, not on your life, this has not ever remotely been hinted at as a feature of any DVD recorder and most certainly not from a big name brand like Panasonic. If the dealer told you this was possible, the dealer is a shady ass and you have every right to return the recorder for a refund if you actually expected such functionality. To make this as clear as humanly possible: there would be no such thing as a DVD/HDD recorder at all unless mfrs agreed to make all HDD recordings encrypted and usable only within the recorder itself, with no possibility whatsoever of "directly moving those files to a PC". Not being able to easily copy recorder files directly to a PC is the primary security/anti-piracy feature of every DVD/HDD recorder ever sold. If you thought you would be easily able to do this, and planned out a whole new video hobby based on the idea, forget it: you'll have to re-think your hardware and workflow. The only consumer recorder that "easily" transfers its HDD recordings to a PC is the TiVO-HD, which will connect via ethernet cable and let you dump its contents to a PC. You would then have to screw with the data dump to create whatever sort of PC videofile or disc you wanted, it still isn't a one-touch magical process.

The long answer is, a few people using special HDD rescue software have managed to copy files from a HDD removed from a Panasonic and installed in their PC. Nine out of ten people who try this end up taking forever to do it, it isn't worth the time and effort unless you are truly rescuing irreplaceable videos from a damaged Panasonic HDD. If you just want a straight-across quickie file copy, this cannot be done with any commercially available operating system or software package. There was one person who posted to this forum last year, claiming he was a "software engineer who wrote his own decryption program that enables simple file copying from a Panasonic HDD to a PC HDD". But he never offered details and was never heard from again. Even if his claim was true, it would really only work under certain circumstances: DVD/HDD recorders do not generally record video to their HDDs as one single continuous file, instead scattering a recording as fragments all over the drive using a proprietary tracking system to view them and make DVDs. Its really difficult to stitch the various pieces together for use as a normal file in a PC.

The easiest, and generally only way to get files off a DVD/HDD recorder is to burn DVDs from the HDD and then copy the DVD files to your PC hard drive for further work and editing. Panasonics can copy their raw HDD files to DVD-RAM discs, which can make this process easier. If you have a DVD-RAM compatible drive in your PC, it can read and copy the raw VRO video files directly off your Panasonic DVD-RAM discs (which may be simpler than having your PC copy a regular DVD and then break down the DVD format into video files that can be re-purposed on the PC).
post #3 of 23
The LG LRM-519 had an ethernet port that allowed transfer of recordings to a pc. It was a Tivo like machine with a hard drive that also included a DVD burner.

That being said using DVD Ram discs essentially accomplishes the same thing.
post #4 of 23
If the LG LRM-519 actually did transfer its HDD video files out over its ethernet port, I think I'd be shocked out of my shoes. AFAIK every recorder that ever had both a burner and an ethernet port used the network interface strictly for downloading TV schedule data for its timer grid. The only exception I've ever seen was the Canadian version of the Pioneer 660, which allegedly was able to transfer JPEGs, MP3s and DiVX over ethernet. But in practice, the only functionality anyone ever really got from the 660 ethernet port was updates to its GraceNote MP3 titling database.

I suppose its possible the LG LRM-519 may have had true video file transfer over ethernet, but I'd be very surprised given it was essentially a MicroSoft product mfr'd by LG. MicroSoft is a vigorous supporter of digital rights management, and about as likely to allow free unfettered file transfer as Sony or Apple (i.e., not happening). This LG does seem to allow video access over USB for additional external HDD storage, though its unclear whether those added HDDs could be read by a PC? It would be educational to read the instruction book for this LG and see exactly what its connectivity options are (then again, the Pioneer 660 manual proved completely incorrect).
post #5 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

If the LG LRM-519 actually did transfer its HDD video files out over its ethernet port, I think I'd be shocked out of my shoes. AFAIK every recorder that ever had both a burner and an ethernet port used the network interface strictly for downloading TV schedule data for its timer grid. The only exception I've ever seen was the Canadian version of the Pioneer 660, which allegedly was able to transfer JPEGs, MP3s and DiVX over ethernet. But in practice, the only functionality anyone ever really got from the 660 ethernet port was updates to its GraceNote MP3 titling database.

I suppose its possible the LG LRM-519 may have had true video file transfer over ethernet, but I'd be very surprised given it was essentially a MicroSoft product mfr'd by LG. MicroSoft is a vigorous supporter of digital rights management, and about as likely to allow free unfettered file transfer as Sony or Apple (i.e., not happening). This LG does seem to allow video access over USB for additional external HDD storage, though its unclear whether those added HDDs could be read by a PC? It would be educational to read the instruction book for this LG and see exactly what its connectivity options are (then again, the Pioneer 660 manual proved completely incorrect).

It may be possible. It says so in the manual. However this was supposed to be a monthly subscription Unit. Which Microsoft Changed its mind and supposedly refunded to people in 2006. It is analog only, and Maybe in Windows 7 Microsoft found a way for the Unit to loose this unique feature, but if you have Windows XP, you can set it up as an user account, and send titles/shows from the unit to a PC.
post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

The LG LRM-519 had an ethernet port that allowed transfer of recordings to a pc. It was a Tivo like machine with a hard drive that also included a DVD burner.

If that was the one that had the built-in, Microsoft downloadable guide feature, I don't doubt it had exclusive features like that. That was by far the most unique, HDD/DVD recorder ever.

By the time they got down to the end of the clearance, they completely eliminated the fee for the guide - and I think it was still available online last time I checked.

My BB had them NIB for dirt cheap in the end, and I was really tempted to grab one, only I didn't want something with an internet-dependent guide at the time (The LG brand name scared me off some, too, I have to say. Think I might've read a few bad reviews, also - although they may have been more along the lines of HD-enthusiasts saying they were "unfinished", or "lacking").
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

If the LG LRM-519 actually did transfer its HDD video files out over its ethernet port, I think I'd be shocked out of my shoes. AFAIK every recorder that ever had both a burner and an ethernet port used the network interface strictly for downloading TV schedule data for its timer grid. The only exception I've ever seen was the Canadian version of the Pioneer 660, which allegedly was able to transfer JPEGs, MP3s and DiVX over ethernet. But in practice, the only functionality anyone ever really got from the 660 ethernet port was updates to its GraceNote MP3 titling database.

I suppose its possible the LG LRM-519 may have had true video file transfer over ethernet, but I'd be very surprised given it was essentially a MicroSoft product mfr'd by LG. MicroSoft is a vigorous supporter of digital rights management, and about as likely to allow free unfettered file transfer as Sony or Apple (i.e., not happening). This LG does seem to allow video access over USB for additional external HDD storage, though its unclear whether those added HDDs could be read by a PC? It would be educational to read the instruction book for this LG and see exactly what its connectivity options are (then again, the Pioneer 660 manual proved completely incorrect).

Go look for your shoes. The LRM-519 did in fact allow for file transfer to a PC. I owned a couple of them.

Another nice feature was the guide - which Microsoft still offers as free with no monthly subscription. It was supported via the ethernet port so when setting up the unit the guide would populate in minutes (if your network had internet access) as opposed to taking days when setting up a TVGOS schedule. It also had a telephone jack which could be used to populate the guide if internet access was not available - this method took longer.

The unit was supposed to be a Tivo competitor. The guide was a subscription service originally but was offered as a free service when the unit was discontinued.

Like I said it was a Tivo like unit with a DVD burner that allowed one to transfer recordings to a PC on the network via its ethernet port.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If that was the one that had the built-in, Microsoft downloadable guide feature, I don't doubt it had exclusive features like that. That was by far the most unique, HDD/DVD recorder ever.

By the time they got down to the end of the clearance, they completely eliminated the fee for the guide - and I think it was still available online last time I checked.

My BB had them NIB for dirt cheap in the end, and I was really tempted to grab one, only I didn't want something with an internet-dependent guide at the time (The LG brand name scared me off some, too, I have to say. Think I might've read a few bad reviews, also - although they may have been more along the lines of HD-enthusiasts saying they were "unfinished", or "lacking").

I posted my opinion of the unit in this forum years ago. If I remember correctly the pluses and minuses were as follows:

Pluses:

- The ethernet port that allowed for the transfer of recordings to a PC(s) on your network.

- The guide was heads and shoulders above any TVGOS implementation I have seen. It was able to populate the guide in a couple of minutes when setting up.

Minuses:

- it seemed to run hot.

- although it had a DVD burner it had no editing capabilities.

- the PQ of the recordings seemed a bit soft to me. But so did Pioneer and Panasonic. I was spoiled at the time by the Toshiba XS series.

It offered a lot but was not sold at retail for very long.
post #9 of 23
What if a tv tuner is used for the PC. Record the show on a cable Co. DVR and then instead of running the composite wires to the tv, run them to a tv tuner attached to the computer instead. Then record it onto the computers hard drive.

Wouldn't that work?
post #10 of 23
Yeah, I remember then that there was someone here who owned a couple who actually talked about them in more detail, and that apparently was you, nextoo.

I probably asked you a few questions about it myself. I think the others thought we were nuts then, too, because not more than a handful of people around here altogether over the years were even aware of it's existence (I still get that around here whenever I mention how many more DVD recorders than just the Polaroid had component input).

It did linger on the BB shelves here for quite sometime - at least 6 months, I'd say. They either got way too large of a stock in at the beginning, or this store was used as some kind of regional outlet or something.

It was like the LG 3410a and Sony DHG DVR's - barely marketed at all (although I do seem to remember seeing one commercial for it on TV once or twice. I remember that, because it stood out so much, and I was shocked).

Citi - it did do the file transferring to PC - I remember that well myself now.
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Yeah, I remember then that there was someone here who owned a couple who actually talked about them in more detail, and that apparently was you, nextoo.

I probably asked you a few questions about it myself. I think the others thought we were nuts then, too, because not more than a handful of people around here altogether over the years were even aware of it's existence (I still get that around here whenever I mention how many more DVD recorders than just the Polaroid had component input).

It did linger on the BB shelves here for quite sometime - at least 6 months, I'd say. They either got way too large of a stock in at the beginning, or this store was used as some kind of regional outlet or something.

It was like the LG 3410a and Sony DHG DVR's - barely marketed at all (although I do seem to remember seeing one commercial for it on TV once or twice. I remember that, because it stood out so much, and I was shocked).

Citi - it did do the file transferring to PC - I remember that well myself now.

Those that claim to be students of the space probably never heard of it.

Those who actually were students of the space are very familiar with it. It was a blip. But it was produced. Was sold at retail. And did offer the features most would like to see today.

That being said it is ancient history.
post #12 of 23
Didn't mean to doubt you, nextoo: I didn't realize you personally owned the LG and were speaking from user experience. I thought you were just referencing it as a possible exception to the general "no way to get files off the HDD without burning a disc" recorder rule. I am really shocked to hear it is indeed a definite exception, I'm stunned MicroSoft would go out on a limb like that! Man, they must have seriously thought they had a shot at taking down TiVO with this LG model if they went so far as to allow PC file transfers. Too bad its achilles heel was apparently PQ that looked no better than VCD, and a critical dependency on the guide data (amazing MS still supports it- for free, yet!) Was LG the only partner in this venture, or did other mfrs make recorders with this MicroSoft interface? At the time, LG did not have the greatest rep for recorders in the US market, which explains why a lot of us may have overlooked it. I think back then it was mostly a four-way race between Panasonic, Pioneer, Sony, and Toshiba fans (with the occasional Phillips or Polaroid). Now you guys have me wondering whether TiVO offered their ethernet data dump before or after the LG offered it?

Nextoo, weren't you the one who figured out how to lift the TVGOS software off a failing Pioneer? That helped a lot of us, at least until the machines died for the fifth time and stopped being recoverable. Those 2005 Pios were no picnic. And you're right- none of this is relevant to the OP, since transfer options on the Panasonic remain nil aside from burning a DVD-RAM or DVD.
post #13 of 23
For anyone who's curious:

http://www.microsoftprogramguide.com/
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Yeah, I remember then that there was someone here who owned a couple who actually talked about them in more detail, and that apparently was you, nextoo.

I probably asked you a few questions about it myself. I think the others thought we were nuts then, too, because not more than a handful of people around here altogether over the years were even aware of it's existence (I still get that around here whenever I mention how many more DVD recorders than just the Polaroid had component input).

It did linger on the BB shelves here for quite sometime - at least 6 months, I'd say. They either got way too large of a stock in at the beginning, or this store was used as some kind of regional outlet or something.

It was like the LG 3410a and Sony DHG DVR's - barely marketed at all (although I do seem to remember seeing one commercial for it on TV once or twice. I remember that, because it stood out so much, and I was shocked).

Citi - it did do the file transferring to PC - I remember that well myself now.

I agree. There were a number of DVD recorders released in NA with component inputs.

But only a few that included hard drives. The Polaroid 2001G being the most familiar.

But there was also a DVD recorder with component inputs sold in NA that also included a slot in the case that allowed one to swap hard drives. It was based on the Polaroid design (which was sold in other parts of the world as the Denver, Packard Bell etc brands). But what made this brand unique was the swappable HDD. And it was designed and sold for the NA market.

Do you remember the brand? I do. Most were sold without hard drives. You had to add your own.

Component inputs with multiple hard drive capability - as a feature. I was almost thinking back then that the company that brought it to market was following this forum. It was around 2006-2007.
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

I am really shocked to hear it is indeed a definite exception, I'm stunned MicroSoft would go out on a limb like that! Man, they must have seriously thought they had a shot at taking down TiVO with this LG model if they went so far as to allow PC file transfers. Too bad its achilles heel was apparently PQ that looked no better than VCD, and a critical dependency on the guide data (amazing MS still supports it- for free, yet!) Was LG the only partner in this venture, or did other mfrs make recorders with this MicroSoft interface?



Now you guys have me wondering whether TiVO offered their ethernet data dump before or after the LG offered it?

TiVO "probably" did their Ethernet to get current customers who had already figured out how to hack their machines to keep purchasing newer offerings. The LG and similiar offerings were about a year ahead of the mobile breakthrough that allowed the industry to make millions on monthly fees. Maybe Microsoft knew what was comming and jumped the gun before people were ready to accept it.

Around the same time LG brought out theirs, HP had the "Entertainment Series" computer. It was pricey at $2000.00 and $1800.00 depending on which size hard drive you wanted. It used the Microsoft Media Center basically the same software as the above Guide. This was also a mid to top of the line computer. It had direct cable connection and also offered over the air ATSC which actually did not really exsist when they first offered it. I finally purchased one when Compusa went out of business for $800.00. It tended to overheat and had the blue screen of XP death. The program itself did not allow any editing, but you could use Software of the day on the files outside of the program to do your editing. HP also offered a slot for their Portable Hard Drive system where you could keep filling up 120 GIG hard drives all you wanted to for around $200.00 each before this became common place. I even think Chrystler offered the ability to transport these into their vehicle media centers. That did not take off either.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

The only consumer recorder that "easily" transfers its HDD recordings to a PC is the TiVO-HD, which will connect via ethernet cable and let you dump its contents to a PC. You would then have to screw with the data dump to create whatever sort of PC videofile or disc you wanted, it still isn't a one-touch magical process.

From personal experience, it's not a "data dump" but rather a video-file transfer process that is as simple as point and click. The video files that are transferred are standard MPEG-2 encodings that are immediately playable by any PC-based or hardware media player or can be read by a suitable authoring program and edited/burned to DVD (or shrunk and posted to the Internet). The big plus, however, is that if the original recording was HD/5.1, it is retained.

That sounds pretty magical to me.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

[...]That sounds pretty magical to me.

It's pretty magical if it helps you reach your particular goal, of course. The TiVO>PC setup is about the easiest path there is to capturing full HDTV with 5.1 audio, and if you want to burn HD discs its kinda the only option in North America short of a full-blown HTPC (with all that entails). For regular ordinary SD material and DVDs? The DVD/HDD standalone unit is much simpler and doesn't tie up your PC. Unfortunately the product failed to catch on in USA/Canada, the more evolved models were dropped, and our only choice now is the rather basic Magnavox.

Home video recordists fall into two distinct camps of people whose experiences don't necessarily coincide: one man's "wonder solution" is another man's total PITA. If you are very PC-oriented, and VERY lucky, using the PC as the linchpin of your video recording system can be an incredibly versatile option. But there is some weird degree of blind luck involved: for many of us, video files on the PC frustrate with technical snarls at every turn. I'm certainly not the only one here who's utterly fed up with conflicting codecs, files that won't play on one software player but will on another, files that won't play on Macs or Linux but will on a PC (and then maybe only under XP or 7/Vista but not both). If you record the files yourself, sure you have more control, but there's still a lot of glitches which may not be obvious until its too late to fix them.

A standalone recorder/burner can be very limiting, but it can also be very liberating because those limits help force it to make a good DVD every time without fuss. I'd love to use my PC more for video work, especially editing and authoring, but I'm spoiled by the simplicity of the standalone and just don't have the patience. Pulling MPEG2s off the TiVO or video board output and into an authoring program to make DVDs isn't my idea of fun, no matter how reliable it might be. But then, I want discs as a result, not a fragile hard drive full of files: others who've had great experience being PC-centric wouldn't dream of going "backwards" into the limits of a standalone recorder. The PC-centric will always have more options, if only because a PC is a universal generic tool whose availability is not subject to the whims of the consumer marketplace. Dell and Sony really could care less whether or not you use their PC for video, and making third-party tuner/video cards and software is much less of a $$$ risk than mfring complete dedicated standalone recorders. Given North American issues integrating cable and satellite with recorders or HTPCs, the TiVO>PC combo may wind up being the only credible long-term option for those who can't stand proprietary decoder box PVRs.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

I posted my opinion of the unit in this forum years ago. If I remember correctly the pluses and minuses were as follows:

Pluses:

- The ethernet port that allowed for the transfer of recordings to a PC(s) on your network.

- The guide was heads and shoulders above any TVGOS implementation I have seen. It was able to populate the guide in a couple of minutes when setting up.

My HP laptop still tries to download the guide everytime the laptop boots.

the minus: The software is so basic that it does not even give you the choice to turn off that option.
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Do you remember the brand?

I vaguely remember something like that, but no, I don't remember the brand.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

Around the same time LG brought out theirs, HP had the "Entertainment Series" computer. It was pricey at $2000.00 and $1800.00 depending on which size hard drive you wanted. It used the Microsoft Media Center basically the same software as the above Guide. This was also a mid to top of the line computer. It had direct cable connection and also offered over the air ATSC which actually did not really exsist when they first offered it. I finally purchased one when Compusa went out of business for $800.00. It tended to overheat and had the blue screen of XP death. The program itself did not allow any editing, but you could use Software of the day on the files outside of the program to do your editing. HP also offered a slot for their Portable Hard Drive system where you could keep filling up 120 GIG hard drives all you wanted to for around $200.00 each before this became common place. I even think Chrystler offered the ability to transport these into their vehicle media centers. That did not take off either.

When the Tweeter here closed a few years back, they had a display model of the HP on sale. I was tempted to buy it, but resisted (maybe if had been dirt cheap, but it wasn't).
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

From personal experience, it's not a "data dump" but rather a video-file transfer process that is as simple as point and click. The video files that are transferred are standard MPEG-2 encodings that are immediately playable by any PC-based or hardware media player or can be read by a suitable authoring program and edited/burned to DVD (or shrunk and posted to the Internet). The big plus, however, is that if the original recording was HD/5.1, it is retained.

That sounds pretty magical to me.

While 5.1 would be nice, much of what I record(and want to burn to DVD) doesn't really have 5.1 and it's recorded from a HD channel. If I were to use a PC I'd need to either burn to DVD in AVCHD(and only get ~1hr/DVD and need to play the DVD on a BR player instead of my many DVD players) or somehow convert the HD format to SD and burn to DVD. My guess(knowing the quality of most shrinking software) is the quality would be worse than actually doing as I do, record to my DVDR from my Tivos S-video output. Doing this I get great looking anamorphic DVDs, although the WS bit is not set and of course I only get 2 channel audio.
I'm willing to trade 5.1 for what I think would be better picture quality and of course ability to play my DVDs in any standard DVD player.
I can see how burning full HD and 5.1 would be nice in some cases but I'm not willing to increase my blank media usage or switch to BR, but for those who do, all the more power to you. With something like a Tivo we've got lots of choices.
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
It's pretty magical if it helps you reach your particular goal,
The OP, to which all this refers, is asking about transferring recordings directly to PC. So obviously he is interested in making use of a PC for editing/authoring or just off-line storage. While not possible with a DVD recorder, I just wanted to make it clear that it is a trivial task with a networked TiVo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
If I were to use a PC I'd need to . . . somehow convert the HD format to SD and burn to DVD.
Can be easily done by Video ReDo TV Suite which is probably the best editing/authoring software for TiVo HD files.

Nothing wrong with your choice to use a DVD recorder. But again the OP seems interested in direct digital transfer to use on a PC.
post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
The OP, to which all this refers, is asking about transferring recordings directly to PC. So obviously he is interested in making use of a PC for editing/authoring or just off-line storage. While not possible with a DVD recorder, I just wanted to make it clear that it is a trivial task with a networked TiVo.
I think we've all been pretty clear about the advantages of a TiVO>PC workflow, but its a tangent we probably should not have gone off on since the OP has already blown $300-500 on a Panasonic EH59 DVD/HDD recorder and is likely not interested in hearing that was a huge mistake and he should have bought a TiVO instead. Like some others here, he may have preferred the idea of a basic recorder with built in burner to the notion of connecting the burnerless TiVO to a PC each and every time he wanted to burn a DVD. While the TiVO>PC combo is very versatile, it can be annoying to be forced into the "file transfer and author with Video Redo dance" for every single otherwise ordinary TV-show-to-DVD task.

A significant number of users would like a "best of both worlds" solution, i.e. a subscriptionless DVD/HDD recorder that can burn quick easy DVDs internally of routine recordings, yet also connect to a PC for backup storage or occasional projects that require more elaborate authoring. Unfortunately such machines (in NTSC) have been rare and flawed and overpriced, and failed to be profitable for their mfrs. There's a reason the TiVO-HD ended up being the default compromise solution for advanced users: the subscription fees everyone detests subsidize development costs, form a baseline guarantee of profitability, and create a strong enough user base to withstand connectivity resistance from the cablecos and Hollywood. If the TiVO-HD was a "buy it once for $200" generic recorder, there's no way it could have overcome united cableco hostility to implementing the open CableCard interface necessary for TiVO to integrate seamlessly with cable service. The ongoing subscription paradigm gives TiVO credibility and leverage it would not otherwise have with its (largely unwilling) cable partners.

The story is different outside North America, where "cable" is unheard of and satellite is a niche product thats practically nationalized. You have many countries sharing the same off-air DTV spectrum and using the same free TiVO-like timer grid service. This makes generic DVD/HDD recorders more popular, more useful, more uniform to mfr, and more profitable. A handful of these region-specific recorders (but not the "universal" EH59) have exactly the PC connectivity features wanted by the OP, that were embodied in the LG/Microsoft recorder. (They do lose the HDTV advantages of the TiVO>PC combo, but large screens and full HDTV recording are not the big draw in Europe that they are here in USA/Canada anyway.)
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