Disney's WOW: World of Wonder (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 17

Richard, I'm clear now that I should let the contrast and brightness control as default and set the brightness with the bacKlight control. Now I know that LD is the one responsible for black level alone on the sony HX850, it didn´t occured to me. Right now I'm using the local dimming on the max level of Standard (excelent blacks), so my question is: when I perform the calibration with the WOW disc I should also have the local dimming ON at the same time and set on standard? or Local Dimming should be OFF during the calibration process and then after the calibration is finish, turn it ON at the standar setting?.

What is your opinion in engaging motionflow with blu-ray, videogames and cable HD channels. On the HX850 the clear and clear plus settings with film mode on Auto 1 don't create the soap opera efect, but both settings darken the imagine because If I not wrong they insert a black frame in the interpolation process.

Thanks in advance, and also have a very happy holydays

OK. Thanks for the pics.

Without placing the Sub as I recommended, you will not be getting the correct result.

If you try this, you may be surprised by the result.

* Turn Audyssey and all other sound modification settings you may have enabled ... off.

* Measure the distance from your ear at the listening position to the FL and FR Main Speakers. Make a note of this measurement.

* Position the front driver of the SUB 90 Degrees in relationship to your listening position. You do not want the Sub pointing towards you. As close to 90 Degrees as possible is ideal. This helps to reduce direct radiated sound above the crossover point which can muddy your upper bass, midrange and high frequency range. See the crude diagram attached that I made to illustrate Sub placement.

* Position the Sub within 1" ... or less ... with respect to the measurement you took for your FL and FR Main Speakers. For example, if your FL and FR Main Speakers are 9'6" from your main listening position, you want to place the front driver of your Sub at 9'6" from that same listening position.

* Cross over in your AVR at 80hz and set your speakers to large for starters. You can determine later if Small works better as you listen to program material. In my experience, Large usually sounds better in most systems. I have done this with many systems ... and it has always worked out better as Large. However, Large may not be the best for your system in the end. More on that later.

* Bear in mind, you will be fine tuning with your ears as well as using a meter as we go forward from here.

* Check the phase fo your Sub to be sure it is correct. This is from CNET on how to set phase:

To check your sub's phase, play music with lots of bass, listen for a minute or so, and have a friend sitting by the sub flip the sub's 0/180-degree phase switch slowly back and forth. The correct setting is the one that yields more bass. You may have to try a few different recordings before you hear any difference, and it might help to turn up the sub's volume level for this test. If you don't hear any difference between the 0 and 180-degree settings, leave the phase control in the 0 position.

* Now, measure the distance from each speaker to your listening position including your Sub which is no situated with 1" or less of your FL and FR Main Speakers. For simplicity's sake, let's say they are all exactly 9'6" ... which will not be the case unless you are in a mixing studio or have complete control over your environment and can place speakers in where you like ... meaning there is no wife to tell you differently....

* Make note of each speaker's distance from your main listening position.

* Set your AVR Speaker Distances for each Speaker in your system.

* Take your SPL Meter and set it to C Weighting.

* Send tones to each speaker and set them to an 83db reference level.

* Set your Sub at +3 compared to your Main Speakers. to an 86db reference level.

* With your AVR still set to a Large Speaker setting, take a couple of well recorded music discs with good bass ... Acoustic, Electric, Piano, etc. and play these on your system.

* Fine tune your Crossover Point & Sub Level to eliminate any peaks you hear in the Mid to Upper Bass region. You can easily hear these peaks by listening to the Upper Bass, Midrange and High Frequency range of your program material. You will notice greater detail, clarity and imaging and less mud as you turn down / fine tune the Sub Level and Sub Crossover Point.

* If you can clearly isolate / hear the Sub or locate the position of the Sub, your Levels and or Crossover are set too high.

* Your Sub will be dialed in correctly when it "disappears" so to speak. You will notice there is no localization of the bass. It just couples to the room and becomes part of the system. On my system, my level control is at around 10:30 and my Sub Level is set to about 60Hz. Anything above that absolutely destroys the clarity, imaging and detail across the entire tonal range.

* If your bass sounds like it is peaking, hot, localized, overly noticeable or overwhelming ... it is not setup correctly according to the approach I recommended here.

* I will say this, a properly set-up Sub is opposite of what most Home Theater enthusiasts might strive for. It is clean, articulate, note accurate, room filling bass that is just "there" working in perfect harmony with your Main Speakers. It is not really overly noticeable as Bass on its own. It is in proper balance with the overall tonal range. Once you get it dialed in correctly, you will also that your Sub will simply disappear ... but it will properly support all LFE and Low Frequency sounds.

* Now, try some movies with good soundtracks and good bass to test your newly calibrated system. Note the sound quality carefully with respect to tonal balance, detail, dynamic range, imaging, and overall quality of sound, It should sound superb if you followed the recommendations I laid out for here for manual calibration and speaker setup.

* Now, you can try setting your speakers to small to see if it makes a difference. In most cases, I fond Large works better...but maybe it will not in your case. The only way to tell is to listen.

* Once you have your final configuration, you truly compare the sound of Audyssey verses Manual Calibration.

I would be curious to hear about you results if you decide to proceed with this approach to calibration.

Let me know if you decide to do this. I will be happy to answer any questions you may have and guide you through the process.

Sub Placement.gif 14k .gif file


Edited by RBFilms - 12/23/12 at 11:08am

I have a few general questions:

1. Other than night time with lights off, can this starting point be also used for the day time and lights on during the night too?

2. Where should I be standing relative to the TV screen while calibrating? 1-2 feet away from the screen or from my viewing position which is 7-8 feet away?

3. Is this calibration setup only for "movie" viewing?

4. What about "normal" viewing like TV shows and documentaries? Do I set the TV's picture to standard mode and start from there?

The WOW doesn't seem to use backlight as part of the calibration. Since it's very dim, after calibration do I leave it at "4" or set this at whatever feels comfortable to my eyes? i.e., "12"

My TV doesn't seem to have these settings. Are these suppose to be found in "Developer/advanced mode?"

These options are greyed out in all modes.

At its current location, my sub is pretty much at that spot already. Because my theatre room's a rectangle, for the sub to be as far away from the listening position as my front speakers, it can really only go right next to them up at the front. Unless I decide to move my fronts towards the listening position a bit, then, for me to satisfy that requirement it looks like everything's actually going to end up staying where it is.

I realise this has been discussed already, but on the Onkyo you can't set speakers to large or small. You just set a crossover for each channel (fronts, center, surrounds & rears), and if there's no crossover, the double bass option (which is previously greyed out) then becomes available to set. My understanding, then, is that I want to try adjusting those crossovers. Financially speaking, I have actually paired cheap speakers with a really rather expensive subwoofer, so I'm definitely going to try playing around with upping those values.

Just out of curiosity, is there anything you could recommend here? I'm not a big music listener, if truth be told, so if there's a lengthy movie passage or some such that could very well be used to help fine tune a system in this way, I'd love to give that a shot. I'm open to any and all suggestions though, be it music or otherwise.

Thanks so much for your help though. If I had the money to fly you out here to Perth to check out my system, I'd so do that

Actually, the SUB is not in that position in the picture.

By looking at it, I would say the front driver is at least 6" to 10" closer to your ear at your listening position than your LF and RF Main Speakers.

If you drew a perfect circle around you measured from your listening position, the SUB would need to go anywhere on that arc of that circle with the driver facing 90 degrees away from your ears.

See pics of my stereo setup for an example of the recommended subwoofer placement.

The calibration is not as effective if not done exactly as I described.

However, if it is impractical to have your SUB there permanently, I understand. That may be the case or many folks.

I sold my live-in GF on all of my less than attractive looking tweaks purely by letting her listen ... she no longer cares what it looks like ... only what it sound like..)

However, I suggest testing this approach at least out of curiosity. You can alway put everything back after to the way it was after...


Regarding what to use to tweak your system. I recommend music .... Acoustic and Electric Bass as well as Acoustic Instruments, Piano and Female Vocals for critical fine tuning.

I do have favorites that work well ... but I cannot recommend specific musics CD's because people might claim favoritism towards certain studios and record labels.

I am sorry to say that Forums are very odd and prejudiced in that way.

Use an extremely well recorded CD without ANY processing, effects, reverb, etc ... (which is extremely rare).

There are other tweaks you can try, but again ... I cannot mention them without taking heat from AVS Forum members.


IMG_3300.JPG 1941k .JPG file


IMG_3301.JPG 2176k .JPG file


You can always PM me if you are really interested.

That's my point, I'd be better off just moving my fronts up a little. If I did that, even if I angled the left side of my sub out a bit so that it was pointing towards that front left speaker at its new location, it's really going to be a very minor change.

Of course, I'm happy to give that a go (and because I'm a bit OCD about my system being as good as it can, probably will anyway), but to be honest, I wouldn't expect to see much of a difference from a change so minor.

I will try it though, because I really believe you know what you're talking about.

As far as the recommendations you have with regards to music, I'm definitely going to PM you on that one
Edited by Venturai - 12/26/12 at 4:19am

You may be surprised.

The difference in every system I have done has been dramatic to my ears.

I replied to your PM.

Let me know how it goes.

Hello RICHARD, I'm having some problems with reflections on my wall monted 55HX850 from my foot lamp that is placed behind me, so I moved it to the side of the tv and is much better indeed, but I came across to a product on amazon that said is for Bias Lighting called "LED Backlight Kit for 46" to 57" TV LCD Flatscreen (Wall Mount)" wich light is calibrated for 6500 kelvin. Like you have said in some of your answers on this forum, the best thing to do is doing the calibration with the WOW disc in the normal lighting conditions you have at night when you watch TV. So I am still figuring out what will be my usual lighting conditions before doind the WOW calibration, so What do you think of this Bias Lightinng or this product in particular? do you think it could be better that having my foot lamp on the side of the TV (wich have a 6400 kelvin bulb by the way)? Having your opinion would help me a lot decinding for one or the other, for then I will do the WOW calibration!.

From your previous answers to my questions regardind the brightness calibration on the HX850, I am still in doubt about one thing: when I'll perform the calibration with the WOW disc, should I have the Local Dimming ON at the same time or Shoud I do the whole calibration first and then after that process is finish, turn Local dimming ON?.

For your answers to another person that ask directions for his LED samsung, I saw that you told him that motionflow should be OFF. What is your opinion in engaging motionflow with blu-ray and videogames on the HX850. In particular I want to know your opinion on cable HD channels because motionflow on the clear or clear plus setting with film mode on Auto 1 create a almost non-existent soap opera efect, from which I think my digital channels benefit but I don't know if my HD channels do, and I don't want to be changing settings every time I switched between them.

Thanks in advanced Richard and have a happy new year!.

I recently purchased a Samsung PN51E7000 that has what appears to be 3 red stuck pixels that are mostly noticeable on a white screen when I run break-in slides. Does the pixel flipper actually work to correct stuck pixels? If so, what procedure should I follow, i.e how long would I need to run it, etc. ?

The Pixel Flipper may indeed help if the pixels are actually stuck. However, there are no guarantees stuck pixels will be fixed by running the Pixel Flipper.

Also, it is not possible to bring pixels back from the dead.

With that said, try running the pixel flipper for One (1) Hour to start.

In most cases, that will be enough to exercise a stuck pixel back in to operation,

If that does not help, you can try running the Pixel Flipper for a longer period of time.

Running the Pixel Flipper for several hours may also help plasmas showing signs of mild burn-in.

If this does not work, then the Pixels are most likely beyond the help of the Pixel Flipper.

Please let me know if the Pixel Flipper works out for you n this case.

So would it be safe to say other then the test disc in the 2 disc blu ray, the calibration is the same. I cant find the 2 disc blu ray in stock anywhere and just want to make sure theres no real advantage over the 1 disc

Yes - the exact same Calibration Disc is included with every version. There is no difference.

Yes - the exact same Calibration Disc is included with every version. There is no difference.... except cost I should say.

The one (1) Disc is less expensive.

6500 Kelvin backlighting is actually recommended.

It is one of the few tasks left on my list ...

I have not completed this backlight mod for my system yet.

Richard, in the WOW booklet says that you should let the tv's gamma control in their normal setting (That it should be 2.2). On the HX850 the normal setting is 0 that according to professional reviews gives you that 2.2 mark. However, the reviewers of two sites: HDTVtest and Hometheater.com, said that they like using the -1 gamma setting (2.4 mark) and that you'll lose a very small percent of shadow detail but the trade off is worth it (deeper blacks). The light in my room at night is a 6500K energy saver bulb that gives the equivalent of 30 watt of light, so is not completely dark but not to bright either; and during the day I have good curtains to block the sun. What do you think of using a 2.4 gamma for movies, games and cable tv?

Richard,
Just got this disc noted hat the audio tones are recorded @ 85 db (rather than 75 db).

Not an issue.

However, with the typical Radio Shack analog meter, for the limited band pink noise, how many DB do you add to the output to correct for the insensitivity of the mic at low frequencies?

I set my sub at 85 db and then added 6 db more.

What is the practice on this for a balanced freq response? I like a little more oomph on the low end. In terms of correcting for the meter, how much do you typically add when doing subwoofer level?

Richard, aditional to this question, I forgot to ask if I changed the gama of the sony HX850 to -1 that gives a 2.4 gamma, would that change the color balance and tempeture as well, because I know that on the cinema 1 profile, the profesional reviewers had said that the color balance is pretty good out of the box (very close to 6500K). And I don´t want to mess that up by changing the gamma to 2.4
Edited by fegam2 - 1/7/13 at 11:47am

RBFilms
I don't know whether you can help me. I have the WOW disc but misplaced the blue filter card. Is there any way I can get s replacement please?
Thanks...

Sure ... Send me a PM...

Richard,

I'm very new in this forum but I have heard about TV calibration since 2009 when I bought my first LCD (Sony Bravia).

I have recently purchased this Panasonic Viera (I'm in Costa Rica):

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-L42E5

After reading and comparing calibration Blu Rays, I found out about WOW, and then I found this thread.

WOW man (pun intended), your support and feedback has been incredible, so I bought the Blu Ray on amazon, it should arrive this week to Costa Rica.

I will update back with my results, maybe a "before and after" comparison images.

I will usually use my TV for gaming (PS3 - Wii U) 70% of the time, with Netflix the other 30%, do you have any recommendations for gaming?

Regards,

Leo Roque

Got the WOW blu ray!

I calibrated and hey, things do look better! The included filter is great for the color and tint, no way I would have nailed those settings.

I also calibrated my girlfriend and his dad's TV, as well as 3 screens at a friend's house.

General response:

IT LOOKS WAY TO DARK

My approach:

1- Show Wall-E scenes for a while.
2- Switch back to VIVID or Standard or whatever it was that they were using.
3- "OH WOW YEAH IT LOOKS FAKE NOW"

People don't see the calibration instantaneously, as they are used to the brighter more "blue" colors of default settings.

However, once they do, they learn to appreciate it.

Anybody know the optimal settings they have achieved with Optoma HD20?

This is correct....I have found the same thing...

Hi Richard, I'm in the process of changing my old sony Home Theater for an 5.1 Energy take classic. I have always had my surround speakers at ear level directed toward myself. My room is small and I have my couch back against my back wall. I have read online that is desirable to have the surrounds 1-2 feet above ear level and aim toward your oposite front speakers. Also I have read that you should aim your front speakers toward you directly. What is your professional opinion about these claims?.

Also, I would really appreciate that you will answers 2 quick questions:
1. On the sony HX850. do I have to have the Dinamic LED Control ON and set to Standar when I am doing the WOW calibration or Should be OFF.
2. Changing the gamma setting would alter the color balance or not. Should I stick with a 2.2 or 2.4 gamma?

Thanks in advance

I have very definite opinions about this...and they are different from what you described.

I believe there is a recommendation earlier in this thread on Speaker Placement and Positioning.

I am hesitant to get in to details again...as it starts a heated discussion that I do not care to be a part of.

All I know ... is if you try it ... it works.

See if you can find my earlier post first. If not, send me a PM and I will try to find it and send you a link.

RIch

Thanks Richard, I was lazy and didn't search for an answer in the first pages of this thread, but now I'll look for your earlier post and I'll try your recomended configuration. Can you please answer my other two questions: 1) While doing the WOW calibration should LED Dinamic Control be ON or OFF? 2) Which is better Gamma 2.2 or 2.4?. I have doubts about this 2 variants in order to do the best WOW calibration posible.

P.S. J.J. Abrams to Direct Star Wars Episode VII, Disney Rules!
Edited by fegam2 - 1/25/13 at 10:42pm

Richard, I bought the WOW dvd and it is pretty good! Finally, I get contrast and brightness right, especially contrast.
Maximum all this time and it's ok??? I read some many times that max contrast, even on flat screens,
is a possible death spell for it.

But I had a problem adjusting the tint on my plasma (Samsung) as its color/tint window was right
ON the middle color bars, of all places! The saturation setting was no problem as it was just outside the window.
But for flesh tones, ugh, I had to turn it on, adjust, turn it off to get it right, etc. It was really annoying.

I even used "wide" mode so I could at least raise the picture to see the tint setting, to no success. Still
right in the middle. So I had to get my Avia 2 dvd to get it right.

Bunch of questions, if you have the time to answer, plz:

My tv has "cell light" from 1-10, I suppose that's the backlight, yes? I always put it to 10. Unless?

Also, don't I have to worry about red push as shown on Avia? Why isn't there any red push test? Is it an outdated concept?

I also calibrated an old 26" Samsung lcd. When I put it on "movie", the tint setting is greyed out and we cannot access it. Why?

I see that WOW can also be used to adjust CRT tv (as shown in the menu) but then I thought Blu-ray players can only output in hdmi, CRT have at best
component plugs and regular dvd players cannot obviously read BR dvds? confused.gif

Thx.

I do not know this HDTV myself...

Try this link ... it has some recommended settings.

http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/sony-lcd-tv/sony-hx850-calibration.html

Hi. I bought the WoW disc and can get it to play on my blu-ray player, but it launches the opening screen of the clouds over green hills... and it just sits there. I can't skip to the next track, and none of my remote control functions does anything. As far as I can tell, it will sit there indefinitely. What's wrong?

Edit: Well, that was interesting. It would not show me the menu on the first play. On the second attempt to play, the menu appeared. No, there were no internet updates in between these two events.
Edited by SaviorMachine - 1/26/13 at 5:12pm

Richard,

Do you have any recommendations on BACKLIGHT? The Blu ray does not mention it, how do you recommend handling it?