or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Automatically Powering on Pro Amps via Relay (guide w/ pics)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Automatically Powering on Pro Amps via Relay (guide w/ pics) - Page 4

post #91 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Well, I'm not going to be using a wire, per se.
Of course you are. Semantic irrelevance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I'd like to use this female 3.5mm jack screwed into the work box.
Why are you using a 3 terminal plug/socket whan you only need two? What's on your AVR? Most likely it only has two contacts because that's all it needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

So, I'd have T, R, and S leads on the back of the jack, that need to be wired directly to the +/- on the relay itself. But I'm too dumb to understand how the the T, R and S need to connect to +/-. tongue.gif
If you insert a 3 conductor plug into the 2 terminal socket on the AVR most likely the S on the AVR socket will contact the R but it might hit the S depending on the socket. Short together the conductors attached to the R and S and connect that to one relay terminal, and the one connected to the T to the other.

Seriously, if you are asking questions like this for your own safety, do not wire up the mains as I have little confidence you won't hurt yourself or someone else.
post #92 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post


Seriously, if you are asking questions like this for your own safety, do not wire up the mains as I have little confidence you won't hurt yourself or someone else.

Agree 100%

It's not just knowing which wire goes where. You need to know how to make safe, secure, well insulated connections. Not something you can learn overnight.
post #93 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Of course you are. Semantic irrelevance.

I only made that designation ("wire") as the OP's DIY is using a stripped RCA cable, whereas I want to use a female jack for more flexibility and convenience. He had two conductors to work with, I'd be using three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Why are you using a 3 terminal plug/socket whan you only need two? What's on your AVR? Most likely it only has two contacts because that's all it needs.

That's the only socket I found applicable to this installation and goal. I'm using the same AVR (processor) as the OP, the Denon AVP. Standard 12V 3.5mm trigger out jacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

If you insert a 3 conductor plug into the 2 terminal socket on the AVR most likely the S on the AVR socket will contact the R but it might hit the S depending on the socket. Short together the conductors attached to the R and S and connect that to one relay terminal, and the one connected to the T to the other.

That is exactly the question I was asking an answer for, and I do appreciate your response and answer. T to positive, R/S to negative. Got it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Seriously, if you are asking questions like this for your own safety, do not wire up the mains as I have little confidence you won't hurt yourself or someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post


Agree 100%

It's not just knowing which wire goes where. You need to know how to make safe, secure, well insulated connections. Not something you can learn overnight.

I have no problem with HV wiring, or connections. I simply asked a question about low-voltage TRS connections for this specific application. I don't have any experience with TRS terminals, especially related to this application.
post #94 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I only made that designation ("wire") as the OP's DIY is using a stripped RCA cable, whereas I want to use a female jack for more flexibility and convenience. He had two conductors to work with, I'd be using three.
Why? You only need 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

That's the only socket I found applicable to this installation and goal. I'm using the same AVR (processor) as the OP, the Denon AVP. Standard 12V 3.5mm trigger out jacks.
That is exactly the question I was asking an answer for, and I do appreciate your response and answer. T to positive, R/S to negative. Got it now.

Looking at one of the OP's pics, you can clearly see that he is using a 3.5mm TS, not TRS so the Denon uses a two terminal (mono) plug/socket.

RhBfs.jpg

If the socket you linked is the only one you can find, you're not looking very hard. Try Radioshack and type 3.5mm into the search box. Bottom of first page item 274-248. With another minute I'm sure I could have found more easily at Mouser and Digikey to name just two. Similarly you would be able to buy a suitable lead from either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I have no problem with HV wiring, or connections. I simply asked a question about low-voltage TRS connections for this specific application. I don't have any experience with TRS terminals, especially related to this application.
I'm not confident. Be safe.
post #95 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Why? You only need 2.
Looking at one of the OP's pics, you can clearly see that he is using a 3.5mm TS, not TRS so the Denon uses a two terminal (mono) plug/socket.

I assumed the Denon uses three terminal outputs for triggers. And that some gear required two (mono), others three (stereo/TRS). I know that the receiving gear is picky, because I recently got an ATI amp that would only work with a stereo trigger cable, not mono.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

If the socket you linked is the only one you can find, you're not looking very hard. Try Radioshack and type 3.5mm into the search box. Bottom of first page item 274-248. With another minute I'm sure I could have found more easily at Mouser and Digikey to name just two. Similarly you would be able to buy a suitable lead from either.
I'm not confident. Be safe.

OK.

I do hope this exchange provides for good information for others contemplating such a project. This looks like an appropriate connector: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kobiconn/161-1640-EX/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMv0W4pxf2HiVz72g33uGb8ZMojYFh7AZUo%3d
Edited by Sam S - 3/3/13 at 6:12pm
post #96 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I assumed the Denon uses three terminal outputs for triggers.
Doesn't the OM for the Denon describe what it uses?
post #97 of 319
Thread Starter 
Yeah, Denon is 3.5mm mono, not TRS. TRS is much larger. The Denon just puts out 12v and a ground, you use that to trip the relay, doesn't really matter what you wire to where, just completing the circuit.
post #98 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Doesn't the OM for the Denon describe what it uses?

It does not. It only specifies the output amperage of the triggers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Yeah, Denon is 3.5mm mono, not TRS. TRS is much larger. The Denon just puts out 12v and a ground, you use that to trip the relay, doesn't really matter what you wire to where, just completing the circuit.

Very good. Thanks again for the DIY. I will probably build at least two, as I have several applications that could use this. I was using a Niles AC3(?) but it was noisy and ultimately failed on me last year. Plus, those are not cheap.
post #99 of 319
If anyone is interested in Crydom Solid State Relays. I have a few 20A and 40A models with heatsinks. They are new but way too large for my application. Shoot me a PM. mouser model 558-D1240 is the 40A
post #100 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

It does not. It only specifies the output amperage of the triggers.
OK, I presumed it would, but I've also never seen one that uses a TRS - makes no sense as you only need two conductors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I will probably build at least two, as I have several applications that could use this.
Thhen be sure to ensure that the total current required to drive all the relays is less than what the AVR can supply. If you do need more than you can use the AVR to control a small relay that drives an aux 12V supply that then powers all the relay coils.
post #101 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

OK, I presumed it would, but I've also never seen one that uses a TRS - makes no sense as you only need two conductors
Thhen be sure to ensure that the total current required to drive all the relays is less than what the AVR can supply. If you do need more than you can use the AVR to control a small relay that drives an aux 12V supply that then powers all the relay coils.

Thanks for the tip. I actually was thinking of using a box in 2 or 3 different rooms/AVRs.
post #102 of 319
Not - Adding this to the DIY FAQ. Thanks!
post #103 of 319
You really should put a flyback diode across the trigger side of the relay (right at the relay). If you don't you can get quite the voltage spike back at the receiver. If the relay is being driven with a FET and the FET is very close to the relay (like on the same PCB) the body diode in the FET will do the same thing, but add many feet of wiring between the FET and the relay and the body diode is far less effective.
post #104 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

You really should put a flyback diode across the trigger side of the relay (right at the relay). If you don't you can get quite the voltage spike back at the receiver. If the relay is being driven with a FET and the FET is very close to the relay (like on the same PCB) the body diode in the FET will do the same thing, but add many feet of wiring between the FET and the relay and the body diode is far less effective.

I thought you wouldn't need a snubber/flyback diode with SSR?

I just finished mine up a few minutes ago!

I actually ordered enough to build two, but only completed one because I initially broke a connector on one of the mono jacks - those are fragile! So, I only had enough parts to complete a single one today.

open.jpeg 170k .jpeg file
closed up.jpeg 144k .jpeg file
post #105 of 319
I built a permant box using two Omron G3PA-220B-VD relays I picked up on ebay for $15 shipped each. They came with the heatsink already attached. Mounted them in an 6 x 8 x 5 deep electrical box. Running two 20 amp lines, one for each CE4000. Tested out the system and it works great.

Thanks to Notnyt for starting this thread.
post #106 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I thought you wouldn't need a snubber/flyback diode with SSR?
I'm not sure about a SSR. But for the cost of a diode it's definitely a good idea on a relay.
post #107 of 319
I hate to resurrect an old thread. This thread is extremely helpful.

I am building a couple of these with similar parts but I purchased the Opto 22 SSR's from amazon since I love amazon and the Opto's are made in the USA. I will be switching amps as well as a wall wart that controls some cabinet fans for cooling.

I am also using a metal 4x4 box and was wondering why none of the pics show that the box itself is grounded. Isn't this required for safety/code, etc.?
post #108 of 319
Why not save yourself the trouble and just get some sensing power strips (similar to Smartstrip)?

You can get them for less than $15 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocketfish-RF-HTS105-Energy-Saving-Power-Manager-7-Outlets-/330988363985?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item4d1071a0d1
post #109 of 319
If enough room I'd still prefer mounting inside the amp; no box.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468003/remoting-multiple-pro-amps
post #110 of 319
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Why not save yourself the trouble and just get some sensing power strips (similar to Smartstrip)?

You can get them for less than $15 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocketfish-RF-HTS105-Energy-Saving-Power-Manager-7-Outlets-/330988363985?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item4d1071a0d1

1) I don't trust those crappy power strips
2) I want my pro-amp to be powered off a separate circuit
3) I have 4 amps that pull 30a each 120a total. I don't think that power strip will suffice.
post #111 of 319
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post

I hate to resurrect an old thread. This thread is extremely helpful.

I am building a couple of these with similar parts but I purchased the Opto 22 SSR's from amazon since I love amazon and the Opto's are made in the USA. I will be switching amps as well as a wall wart that controls some cabinet fans for cooling.

I am also using a metal 4x4 box and was wondering why none of the pics show that the box itself is grounded. Isn't this required for safety/code, etc.?

Yes, ground the box.
post #112 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Why not save yourself the trouble and just get some sensing power strips (similar to Smartstrip)?

You can get them for less than $15 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocketfish-RF-HTS105-Energy-Saving-Power-Manager-7-Outlets-/330988363985?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item4d1071a0d1

Because that doesn't do the same thing as the box I built.
post #113 of 319
ok, to each his own

for me,the strip works fine for powering an ipr 3000 and several other components
post #114 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

ok, to each his own

for me,the strip works fine for powering an ipr 3000 and several other components

If you need your sub to power on while listening to Blu-ray, but not LPs or CDs, you would know why the strip you linked would be useless to many of us.
post #115 of 319
I am going to be installing 8 20 amp outlets in a equipment closet and was wondering what the best solution would be to add relays to them. The picture below shows the equipment closet. The stars are where the outlets are going. I want to have relays for the 5 outlets on left side of one of the racks. That is where all of the amps will be located. I would prefer to have something built into the wall/outlet if possible. I am at framing stage on the house so my options are pretty open at this point. Any help / ideas would be appreciated.


post #116 of 319
Thread Starter 
technically a code violation to mix voltages in box, hence the external boxes
post #117 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Why not save yourself the trouble and just get some sensing power strips (similar to Smartstrip)?

You can get them for less than $15 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocketfish-RF-HTS105-Energy-Saving-Power-Manager-7-Outlets-/330988363985?pt=US_Surge_Protectors_Power_Strips&hash=item4d1071a0d1

I have personally seen those cheaper plastic strips melt. Also, I have timers to control staging my amps on as well as leaving some cabinet fans on for about 5 minutes after power is switched off, so I wanted to customize.
post #118 of 319
We've discussed the cheapo strip option before here. Works until your using large amps drawing current. Unless the strips have #12 inside your going to melt / have a fire. Wouldn't trust one especially with notnyt's clone amps you would be calling the fire dept.
post #119 of 319
When my amplifiers are rated for 20 Amps and I spend the time and money to put dedicated 20 amp circuits in, then I am not using a 15 amp consumer power strip.
post #120 of 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by autox320 View Post

We've discussed the cheapo strip option before here. Works until your using large amps drawing current. Unless the strips have #12 inside your going to melt / have a fire. Wouldn't trust one especially with notnyt's clone amps you would be calling the fire dept.

I'm skeptical about these horror stories; they're only rated for 15 A, do they'd have to be using really skinny wire to generate high temp.

Must be some stupid usage scenario if it really happened, like next to something hot.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › Automatically Powering on Pro Amps via Relay (guide w/ pics)