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92" Mitsubishi DLP @ CES!!! - Page 49

post #1441 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

Several of us talked about this a few pages back. I think it is very film-like. It is still a DLP, but with the clear contrast screen, the best picture I have seen so far. I admit I don't find plasmas and LCDs very watchable. I think they look great in the showroom--brighter and more vivid-looking than rear projection sets. But rear projection sets are somehow more real looking, more 3-dimensional to my eyes. The plasmas and LCDs are more tiring for me to watch and have a sort of surface appeal that lacks depth. That sounds really subjective, but I have seen you and several others here express similar opinions. Well, obviously we like rear projection for a reason. In my experience, this is the realest-looking one yet.

I agree with you on several counts.

As remarkable as some flat screens can be in terms of sharpness, brightness, and contrast, I find that they produce a certain amount of eye fatigue that is utterly absent with rear projection and front projection. With evolving technology things may change, but for the time being I prefer projection.

The three dimensionality of flat screens is impressive in its way, but its three dimensionality is more like staggered planes to me, rather than the rounded palpability of projection TV. With the latter it seems as if you are looking deep into the picture.

These characteristics are evident in all RPTVs as far as my experience goes, including the new Clear Contrast models.

Everybody sees things differently, however, but there are a number of people who see merit in RPTV and front projection, and I am one of them.
post #1442 of 1927
While I have purchased 4 DLP rear projectors and they have qualities I really. I fairly technology agnostic. I have found the ownership experience with my 2009 82837 to be fairly frustrating. Part of is that I have become more and more aware of both the imperfections in the implementation on this setas well as other issues that are inherent in the technology.

I really feel I am at a fork in the road. The latest Mits sets don't seem to have hit a sweet sport for me on price performance and I have to wonder if I my next set won't be LED/LCD. I really want to be in love with the 92840 but neither the price nor the implementation are really at a sweet spot. I have time and I am not saying I have ruled the 92840 out but it does not seem to be a compelling value for me anywhere near the current street price. If it was brighter, if it was less reflective, if I knew how it measured... if, if, if.

I don't want to fight with a set for next 4 years. In late 2009 early 2010 the 82837 was a much more compelling value proposition against the competition than the 92840 is today. 80" is not the direction I want to go on size, 75" is definitely not the size I am looking for so I am at a loss. The 80" Sharp is likely to start getting discounted heavily because once you open the pipeline on an LCD production plant, that plant has to roll panels out so hang on to your hat.
post #1443 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

...

...I really feel I am at a fork in the road. The latest Mits sets don't seem to have hit a sweet sport for me on price performance and I have to wonder if I my next set won't be LED/LCD. I really want to be in love with the 92840 but neither the price nor the implementation are really at a sweet spot. I have time and I am not saying I have ruled the 92840 out but it does not seem to be a compelling value for me anywhere near the current street price. If it was brighter, if it was less reflective, if I knew how it measured... if, if, if.

...80" is not the direction I want to go on size, 75" is definitely not the size I am looking for so I am at a loss. The 80" Sharp is likely to start getting discounted heavily because once you open the pipeline on an LCD production plant, that plant has to roll panels out so hang on to your hat.

You've defined your own criterion, which is bigger than 80 inch...so it sounds like the 80 inch Sharp really isn't big enough for you either.

Maybe you should get a front projector, or wait until Sharp rolls out an 85 inch set which is likely to happen sooner than many think.

I still think the 73 inch bulb set and the 75 inch Laservue are great sets...distinctly brighter than the larger DLPs, and really great PQ, although geometry may not be perfect. In real life viewing I don't think it's an issue.
post #1444 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

You've defined your own criterion, which is bigger than 80 inch...so it sounds like the 80 inch Sharp really isn't big enough for you either.

Maybe you should get a front projector, or wait until Sharp rolls out an 85 inch set which is likely to happen sooner than many think.

I still think the 73 inch bulb set and the 75 inch Laservue are great sets...distinctly brighter than the larger DLPs, and really great PQ, although geometry may not be perfect. In real life viewing I don't think it's an issue.

I just have a rediculous 14 ft viewing distance. That is why I need the bigger sets.

I owned a 2008 73" Mits set for 30 days and the out of box color was awful. I did not have the expertise at the time to calibrate it myself. A pro calibrator discouraged me at the time. He felt it was a waste of my resources to invest in his calibration on the set do the poor color decoders Mits was using.

At the time I had to defer to him and I returned it. That was biggest set available at the time. It had god awful day-glo color. It also had terrible screen sag. All in all the out of the box experience was bad. Color could have been largely fixed in the Service Menu had I the knowledge and a good meter. The geometry though would have driven me nutz.

The 72" lamp lit Sammy I replaced it with had none of those issues. Only real weakness of that set was the blacks were so so. That is the set I parked in my brother's living room. His veiwng distance is about 10.5 feet... it works well in that room. Color is not perfect buy any means but was quite reasonable out of the box and we never felt the need to calibrate it.

An 85" Sharp with local dimming might just work for me...... clearly I am going to wait to see what CES portends unless an offer I can't refuse hits me in the face.
post #1445 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I just have a rediculous 14 ft viewing distance. That is why I need the bigger sets.

I owned a 2008 73" Mits set for 30 days and the out of box color was awful. I did not have the expertise at the time to calibrate it myself. A pro calibrator discouraged me at the time. He felt it was a waste of my resources to invest in his calibration on the set do the poor color decoders Mits was using.

At the time I had to defer to him and I returned it. That was biggest set available at the time. It had god awful day-glo color. It also had terrible screen sag. All in all the out of the box experience was bad. Color could have been largely fixed in the Service Menu had I the knowledge and a good meter. The geometry though would have driven me nutz.

The 72" lamp lit Sammy I replaced it with had none of those issues. Only real weakness of that set was the blacks were so so. That is the set I parked in my brother's living room. His veiwng distance is about 10.5 feet... it works well in that room. Color is not perfect buy any means but was quite reasonable out of the box and we never felt the need to calibrate it.

An 85" Sharp with local dimming might just work for me...... clearly I am going to wait to see what CES portends unless an offer I can't refuse hits me in the face.

My reference was the 2010 73838, which did not have the day glo colors, and in real viewing vs a projected grid looked fine geometry-wise. But it is well known that Mitsubishis are not necessarily great out of the box.

I cannot comment on the lamp lit Samsung DLPs, having only seen the LED illuminated version which looked okay.

I do think an 85 inch flat panel of some sort is not far away, which might provoke Mits to do a larger Laservue.

We'll find out.
post #1446 of 1927
I'm in the same position GT is in, but I sit 16 Feet away from my 82737. An 85 inch Sharp is not enough to get me to upgrade. 90+ inches at an affordable price will. An 85 inch Sharp, if made, would be way out if ny price range $8000 or more? Seems to me that I may wait to see what MITS does in 2012. Their prices will be more in line w/what I could afford.
post #1447 of 1927
can some of you post pics with this TV on in total darkness (or as close as you can) and maybe setup a tripod with a camera so that the picture is steady and take some shots of your TV's. I have seen a few pictures but a lot of them are in day light with lights on and someone holding the camera. Would like to see a super B shot of this TV in action. I have seen this TV in person but the place it is setup at has way too many lights...like a warehouse setup not a theater room setup.

Thanks trying to convince my wife
post #1448 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulpunisher View Post

can some of you post pics with this TV on in total darkness (or as close as you can) and maybe setup a tripod with a camera so that the picture is steady and take some shots of your TV's. I have seen a few pictures but a lot of them are in day light with lights on and someone holding the camera. Would like to see a super B shot of this TV in action. I have seen this TV in person but the place it is setup at has way too many lights...like a warehouse setup not a theater room setup.

Thanks trying to convince my wife

Ah, the Wife... My Wife thinks I'm absolutely crazy to sell my 82737 for a 92840. I think I'll choose her over the TV upgrade though. LOL
As for the 92840, I would only purchase if I had the room in a light controlled room.

Yes! Let's see some pics please
post #1449 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulpunisher View Post

can some of you post pics with this TV on in total darkness (or as close as you can) and maybe setup a tripod with a camera so that the picture is steady and take some shots of your TV's. I have seen a few pictures but a lot of them are in day light with lights on and someone holding the camera. Would like to see a super B shot of this TV in action. I have seen this TV in person but the place it is setup at has way too many lights...like a warehouse setup not a theater room setup.

Thanks trying to convince my wife

I will see if I can get some shots from my recliner at the recommended THX distance. It won't be with a tripod, but that should be okay, and I will show some varying lighting including very dark. It will probably be Friday morning before I can post them, though.
post #1450 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulpunisher View Post

can some of you post pics with this TV on in total darkness (or as close as you can) and maybe setup a tripod with a camera so that the picture is steady and take some shots of your TV's. I have seen a few pictures but a lot of them are in day light with lights on and someone holding the camera. Would like to see a super B shot of this TV in action. I have seen this TV in person but the place it is setup at has way too many lights...like a warehouse setup not a theater room setup.

Thanks trying to convince my wife

I tried to take some pictures last night, the operative word being "tried". I learned that I am not very good at screen captures. Freezing the image presents its own problems, so I took all of these shots at moving targets. I also found that as I made the room darker, it was harder to see the little screen on the digital camera, or to keep it pointed straight rather than tilting it, but I don't have a tripod. All of the shots were taken from my recliner at a distance of about 9' from the screen. My source was DirecTV and I tried to take shots of familiar programs so you can compare more easily. The first shot is a reference picture with very bright overhead lights on. The second is from a Hawaii Five 0 episode in, I believe, 720p. The third is ESPN Sportcenter, also 720p. Those two shots were taken with my normal ambient viewing lights. I don't like to watch TV in a completely dark room, so I have a number of accent lights scattered around, although none that will reflect directly in the screen. The last two shots are Spike TV, UFC, I believe in 1080i. The room was completely dark, except for the component lights, in those last shots. For reference, my brightness level is Natural (31), so I could make the screen much brighter if I chose. To be fair, my older digital camera doesn't reproduce the picture on the screen nearly as well as it actually looks in person. I hope these help.
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post #1451 of 1927
Thanks. Did you take any pictures with lights on in the room?
post #1452 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL68 View Post

Thanks. Did you take any pictures with lights on in the room?

Well, the first two pictures in 720p were taken with a number of accent lights on, including several small lamps, but it is a big room. Those two were shot with what I would consider low-level lighting, which is what I use for regular late-afternoon or evening viewing. The screen is so bright, even in a Natural setting, that you can't really notice them in the photos, but they are on. But Soulpunisher mentioned having seen other postings of the TV in lighted rooms, so as requested, the last two shots were taken in complete darkness except for the TV itself and the small LED's of the components in the stand it sits on.
post #1453 of 1927
I'm going to use the TV to watch my NFL. My viewing will be on Holy Sunday Lord forgive me for saying that. I love my NFL, but will use to watch movies of course. Thanks for posting the pictures. I don't see much, if any glare, except for when the TV is off in the first picture.
post #1454 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL68 View Post

I'm going to use the TV to watch my NFL. My viewing will be on Holy Sunday Lord forgive me for saying that. I love my NFL, but will use to watch movies of course. Thanks for posting the pictures. I don't see much, if any glare, except for when the TV is off in the first picture.

I am not aware of any glare at all when the TV is on. Of course you don't want to have a light source, such as a lamp, directly in line with the screen when the room is otherwise dark, but I have found that to be easily controlled. Sports, including football, will blow you away on this TV.
post #1455 of 1927
As I understand it, the Mits has a built in IR emitter and converter, so all you need are the glasses. My choices would be Optoma ZD-101 and Mits/Xpand x103s. Where is the emitter/ converter located on the set? Anyone?
post #1456 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I am not aware of any glare at all when the TV is on. Of course you don't want to have a light source, such as a lamp, directly in line with the screen when the room is otherwise dark, but I have found that to be easily controlled. Sports, including football, will blow you away on this TV.

Well, when the TV is off; it's a mirror, but when on, amazingly sharp picture with no glare (in a light controlled room of course).

This TV for size and value can't be beat, but there are plenty of Panny VT series plasma fans that say that Panny has the best value. Yeah O.K. I sit 16 feet away and I know I will enjoy watching a 92 inch over a 65 inch (Panny) period. 3D is an immersive experience!

If money were no object, then a 155 inch Panny plasma would be the ultimate!
How many 3D movie theaters display 3D on a small screen? Answer: 92 > 65 Sorry Panny.
post #1457 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL68 View Post

As I understand it, the Mits has a built in IR emitter and converter, so all you need are the glasses. My choices would be Optoma ZD-101 and Mits/Xpand x103s. Where is the emitter/ converter located on the set? Anyone?

As I understand it, the IR emitter is next to the remote control IR sensor which is inside the TV next to the projection lens. Mitsubsihi, being a rear projection TV, has the unique ablity to use the interior mirror and the screen's light focus/dispersion ablity to fill the room with the IR for the glasses and to use the screen itself as the remote sensor. This makes it hard to block the signals.

There is no separate "converter", the 3D processing is part of the TV software just as it is with the other types of 3D TVs They all convert 3D signals to their native display method because the display methods and the signal types are not the same in any of them.

A converter is only needed when the TV cannot process the standard 3D signals, but these models can process the standard 3D siganls.
post #1458 of 1927
Ah, very good. Thanks not needing a converter or IR emitter is a big improvement over previous year models.
post #1459 of 1927
Does one have to purchase a USB adapter to stream live content such as Vudu etc... or can one just hard wire a ethernet cable from their router to the 92840 ? I've read some where that you can only stream when using a wireless UBS adapter. Anyone know for certain?
post #1460 of 1927
Anyone try using the Optoma DLP link 3D glasses and/or Xpand X103 3D active shutter glasses? What gives better results?
post #1461 of 1927
There is an authorized dealer with a Black Friday special.
post #1462 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL68 View Post

Does one have to purchase a USB adapter to stream live content such as Vudu etc... or can one just hard wire a ethernet cable from their router to the 92840 ? I've read some where that you can only stream when using a wireless UBS adapter. Anyone know for certain?

You can use wired. I have mine connect to a 16 port switch.
post #1463 of 1927
I have been waiting to finish my basement before ordering one of these. I have about five weeks before carpet is installed. These can now be delivered for $3998.00. Any idea if there might be any better deals soon or jump on it now? What would you do?
post #1464 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by I like turtles View Post

I have been waiting to finish my basement before ordering one of these. I have about five weeks before carpet is installed. These can now be delivered for $3998.00. Any idea if there might be any better deals soon or jump on it now? What would you do?

Well...it's a bit cheaper than that now on Amazon (fulfilled by Paul's) or you might have a retail Paul's near you.

If you're looking for a theory to guide your actions, there are two opposing theories on this.

One is that they're offering this as a true bargain approaching Cyber Monday
OR
The economy needs a boost, retailers want to sell as much as possible near year's end, and they will offer the same deal later...possibly less but I doubt it. From the point of view of marketing psychology they create demand by a good price and then withdrawing it. Then they can create demand again by offering it at the good price near the Holidays.

But there are no guarantees. However the price I pointed you to is a very good one, and retailers are unlikely to willingly lose all profit margin by going more than a few dollars lower, it at all.
post #1465 of 1927
I've been pondering the future of these and other TV's.

Sharp really shook the market this year with their large format panels, and they are selling the heck out of them.

The thing is, retail stores don't want to sell rear projection because it's 'old technology'. Not when there are 80" LCDs.

Next year should be interesting. It seems highly likely plasma manufacturers, which have always been able to crank out larger displays for commercial purposes, will release mainstream panels bigger than the usual 65". (I was at a Best Buy today and heard a salesman offer to custom order a larger size, citing that one customer had ordered a Panasonic 100" through them.)

Larger LCD will no doubt be the goal as well, but who knows if anyone else can follow Sharp's lead.
The thing is, where does that leave Mitsubishi? Their size/price advantage is starting to evaporate.

I suppose they can try for 100" or more, but I don't think they have any hope without doing away with the flood light/color wheel system to show they have something modern.

Unless Mitsubishi does something really impressive next year, these TV's could be nearing an end. Which then makes me worry about future support.

Anyone have any idea if Mits is looking towards bigger or even making their entire line laser based? I'm starting to get really pessimistic about these.
post #1466 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

...Sharp really shook the market this year with their large format panels, and they are selling the heck out of them...

...It seems highly likely plasma manufacturers, which have always been able to crank out larger displays for commercial purposes, will release mainstream panels bigger than the usual 65". (I was at a Best Buy today and heard a salesman offer to custom order a larger size, citing that one customer had ordered a Panasonic 100" through them.)

Larger LCD will no doubt be the goal as well, but who knows if anyone else can follow Sharp's lead.
The thing is, where does that leave Mitsubishi? Their size/price advantage is starting to evaporate.

I suppose they can try for 100" or more, but I don't think they have any hope without doing away with the flood light/color wheel system to show they have something modern....

...Anyone have any idea if Mits is looking towards bigger or even making their entire line laser based? I'm starting to get really pessimistic about these.

Plasmas as large as you mention and larger have been around for awhile, but the fellow who ordered one from BB was a very affluent fellow. I don't see plasmas in such sizes coming anywhere near in cost to the increasingly large LCDs, which are the real competition to DLP. "Affordable" (a relative term) LCD models larger than 80 inch are probably around the bend.

Large plasmas are expensive, and will likely remain so, even if prices drop somewhat in the future. And just recently Panasonic has cut back on production of plasmas.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ng-yen-tv.html

Rear projection, to be competitive, will probably have to be one form or other of Laser driven projection.
post #1467 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by I like turtles View Post

I have been waiting to finish my basement before ordering one of these. I have about five weeks before carpet is installed. These can now be delivered for $3998.00. Any idea if there might be any better deals soon or jump on it now? What would you do?

This is hopefully all obvious, but... If you order now, make sure you're well aware of the time limits for returns and/or make sure you hook up the TV for a test run shortly after it arrives and make sure it's working ok. It probably isn't a good idea to order it today and then sit on it for 5 weeks.
post #1468 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Hester View Post

You can use wired. I have mine connect to a 16 port switch.

Thanks Wesley!
post #1469 of 1927
Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

Plasmas as large as you mention and larger have been around for awhile, but the fellow who ordered one from BB was a very affluent fellow. I don't see plasmas in such sizes coming anywhere near in cost to the increasingly large LCDs, which are the real competition to DLP. "Affordable" (a relative term) LCD models larger than 80 inch are probably around the bend.

Large plasmas are expensive, and will likely remain so, even if prices drop somewhat in the future. And just recently Panasonic has cut back on production of plasmas.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ng-yen-tv.html

Rear projection, to be competitive, will probably have to be one form or other of Laser driven projection.

If given a choice, I would purchase the Sharp Elite TV currently at 70 inches over the Sharp 80 inch which retails for $4999. Why? Picture quality. I own a 40 inch Sammy LCD 120 refresh rate...motion blurr is there from time to time.
I'll say it again for 2011, the Mits 92 inch is the largest AFFORDABLE screen TV there is out on the market. Will it come to an end? Of course, all good things come to an end.
post #1470 of 1927
Has anyone put this beast on a Salamander Synergy stand? Wondering if the overhang with the depth is an issue.

Played the new Batman in 3D with the Xbox last night. Pretty damn cool, but I had to max the contrast in the game and I was still a bit dark (room was pitch dark). Might actually use the brilliant tonight.
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