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PXXG25 xbox / ps3 picture settings - Page 2

post #31 of 67
I'm just using Game Mode (Xbox).

Do you guys not like that setting?
post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by toran0x View Post

I'm going to try your Game Mode settings also. Any idea what the difference is? Is it just another "custom" mode or are there unique settings that cannot be accessed in other modes?

It's not quite as bright as Custom. It seems to be great with vibrant colors for games. Maybe a higher gamma on custom might imitate it along with Color Management On.
post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by toran0x View Post

I'm going to try your Game Mode settings also. Any idea what the difference is? Is it just another "custom" mode or are there unique settings that cannot be accessed in other modes?

I believe it also has a different behavior with the Pixel Orbiter. On my S2 it is grayed out when you check it while on game mode. My hunch is that it's using a more aggressive pixel orbiter to lower chances of IR or worse burn-in.
post #34 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post


I believe it also has a different behavior with the Pixel Orbiter. On my S2 it is grayed out when you check it while on game mode. My hunch is that it's using a more aggressive pixel orbiter to lower chances of IR or worse burn-in.

Tried game mode with Contrast throttled down a bit and it was really nice. Going to toy with the Custom and Game Mode settings a bit more then post mine (again).
post #35 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvluvr View Post

I'll try smith's and toran's and let you guys know how I like your settings.

Xbox 360 gamer.

Here are the settings I'm trying now. Loving these in black ops on ps3:

Game Mode
Contrast: 65
Brightness: 52
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 25
Color Temp: Cool1
Color Mgmt: On
xvColor: off
CATS: off
Video NR: weak
Blur reduct: on

Aspect adjust
Screen: full
Hd size 2
post #36 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by toran0x View Post

Here are the settings I'm trying now. Loving these in black ops on ps3:

Game Mode
Contrast: 65
Brightness: 52
Color: 50
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 25
Color Temp: Cool1
Color Mgmt: On
xvColor: off
CATS: off
Video NR: weak
Blur reduct: on

Aspect adjust
Screen: full
Hd size 2

I'll definitely check out those settings tonight or tomorrow. I guess the main thing is crisper whites with those settings.
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith987 View Post

Make sure ur xbox settings for reference levels under display settings is set to STANDARD and PS3 settings under display settings for RGB RANGE is set to LIMITED.

...You're giving out BAD settings advice! You're supposed to set the Xbox's Reference Level to EXPANDED. Expanded displays the full 0-255; whereas Standard is 15-235, have you learned nothing on these forums?
post #38 of 67
Where is the setting for blur reduction? There's none for me, also how do you guys change brightness and stuff in numbers? Mine just goes +5 and stuff.

I thought vivid color also made more input lag, i turned all my stuff off
post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post


...You're giving out BAD settings advice! You're supposed to set the Xbox's Reference Level to EXPANDED. Expanded displays the full 0-255; whereas Standard is 15-235, have you learned nothing on these forums?

no. limited amd standard are the best options. super white on with limited displays the entire range within video levels...this allows your to adjust contrast and brightness on your tv as you normally would. running full range would require you to set your tv brightness somewhere around 100 to get detail...over driving the panel...once brightness is correct...the image looks identical on full vs limited. dont let low brightness levels trick you into thinking you have an improved picture. full should only be used if your using a vga/dvi connection.
post #40 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

no. limited amd standard are the best options. super white on with limited displays the entire range within video levels...this allows your to adjust contrast and brightness on your tv as you normally would. running full range would require you to set your tv brightness somewhere around 100 to get detail...over driving the panel...once brightness is correct...the image looks identical on full vs limited. dont let low brightness levels trick you into thinking you have an improved picture. full should only be used if your using a vga/dvi connection.

WRONG!
WRONG!!
WRONG!!!


#1) There is no "super white" for the Xbox.
#2) If you neuter the source material by using Standard (15-235) how do you expect to get a TV display the original 0-255 material: oh wait you %^*$ing cant!
#3) A blind person can't see better with glasses, so stop thinking a TV can mitigate the damage you're doing before it even reaches the screen!
post #41 of 67
What's the best gaming settings preset on the TV and where is the setting for blur reduction? There's none for me, also how do you guys change brightness and stuff in numbers? Mine just goes +5 and stuff.

I thought vivid color also made more input lag, i turned all my stuff off
post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

WRONG!
WRONG!!
WRONG!!!


#1) There is no "super white" for the Xbox.
#2) If you neuter the source material by using Standard (15-235) how do you expect to get a TV display the original 0-255 material: oh wait you %^*$ing cant!
#3) A blind person can't see better with glasses, so stop thinking a TV can mitigate the damage you're doing before it even reaches the screen!

This thread may be helpful:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post15113156

In many cases, choosing "Expanded" (or "RGB Full Range") may degrade quality before it reaches the display. There is no "Super White" setting for Xbox 360 because it always outputs darker-than-black and brighter-than-white for YCbCr.

(and please edit the title of your last post in this thread so it is not a personal attack)
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexplainedBacon View Post

This thread may be helpful:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post15113156

In many cases, choosing "Expanded" (or "RGB Full Range") may degrade quality before it reaches the display. There is no "Super White" setting for Xbox 360 because it always outputs darker-than-black and brighter-than-white for YCbCr.

(and please edit the title of your last post in this thread so it is not a personal attack)

What settings to use on the xbox with HDMI?
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrothermia View Post

What's the best gaming settings preset on the TV and where is the setting for blur reduction? There's none for me, also how do you guys change brightness and stuff in numbers? Mine just goes +5 and stuff.

I thought vivid color also made more input lag, i turned all my stuff off

Sounds like you got a different version. And I haven't noticed any input lag as game mode had Color Management On as default. It looked real good so I stayed with it. The order should be
Picture Mode
Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
Sharpness
CT
Color Management
X.V. Color
Photo Enhancement (greyed out)
C.A.T.S.
Video NR
Blur Reduction
Pro Settings (greyed out)
Aspect Adjustments and etc.
post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoshredder27 View Post

Sounds like you got a different version. And I haven't noticed any input lag as game mode had Color Management On as default. It looked real good so I stayed with it. The order should be
Picture Mode
Contrast
Brightness
Color
Tint
Sharpness
CT
Color Management
X.V. Color
Photo Enhancement (greyed out)
C.A.T.S.
Video NR
Blur Reduction
Pro Settings (greyed out)
Aspect Adjustments and etc.

Lol, weird :P Probably cause i'm in europe so the settings are made differently.

1080p
Standard
Source

Is what i use on my xbox (hdmi) Is it good?
post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexplainedBacon View Post

This thread may be helpful:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post15113156

In many cases, choosing "Expanded" (or "RGB Full Range") may degrade quality before it reaches the display. There is no "Super White" setting for Xbox 360 because it always outputs darker-than-black and brighter-than-white for YCbCr.

FAIL!
FAIL!!
FAIL!!!


Just because a small proportion of HDTVs fail to accept the 0-255 signal from Expanded, does not mean the general population should get out their silver bullets and garlic and start using Standard.

I'm using a 500M, and it's blatantly obvious how massive a difference Expanded makes for blacks (as opposed to using Standard). ...Just because one guy cries wolf doesn't mean everyone should follow his advice. ...So what if he notices a slight "white crush at the very top"? ...The end result is far better blacks! It's utterly insignificant that [he noticed] a white crush at the "very top," because the overall improvement to the picture is leaps-and-bounds better. His reason for recommending Standard is simply irreverent to the overall improvement to PQ.

Most HDTVs made since late '07 are built to expect a PC input: it's common manufacturing practice. It only makes sense for the general population to start using Expanded to enjoy the best overall picture from their Xbox.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

FAIL!
FAIL!!
FAIL!!!


Just because a small proportion of HDTVs fail to accept the 0-255 signal from Expanded, does not mean the general population should get out their silver bullets and garlic and start using Standard.

I'm using a 500M, and it's blatantly obvious how massive a difference Expanded makes for blacks (as opposed to using Standard). ...Just because one guy cries wolf doesn't mean everyone should follow his advice. ...So what if he notices a slight "white crush at the very top"? ...The end result is far better blacks! It's utterly insignificant that [he noticed] a white crush at the "very top," because the overall improvement to the picture is leaps-and-bounds better. His reason for recommending Standard is simply irreverent to the overall improvement to PQ.

Most HDTVs made since late '07 are built to expect a PC input: it's common manufacturing practice. It only makes sense for the general population to start using Expanded to enjoy the best overall picture from their Xbox.

Acid,

your wrong. There is no black level improvement. Have you put this theory to the test with test patterns displaying RGB Full on a test disc? When using expanded or full, and you do not have a tv that allows you to set HDMI ports to RGB color space, all you do to the picture is crush the blacks.. Once you calibrate the set again, which needs the brightness setting much higher, the visual picture looks 100% exactly the same. Even if the set accepts RGB levels over HDMI, the set would STILL look exactly the same.

Example...

Limited RGB over HDMI:

Lets say your sets brightness is "correct" at 55.

Full RGB over HDMI:

Brightness at 55 is now way to low, you need brightness set to 98, and the resulting picture looks 100% the same.

Now you set your tv to accept full RGB space via HDMI, and the brightness is correct at 55 again, but, the picture still looks exactly the same as Limited/Standard.

You just THINK the depth, color, and black levels are better on expanded/full because the brightness is too low...

its the same as setting it to standard/limited and lowering your brightness to 0.

Your not gaining anything....and thats a fact. It's a common issue that has been discussed in many places, like IGN, CNET, Home Theater Mag.

It's not really open for discussion man, its a fact.

You think your seeing an improvment becuase your sending full range rgb levels to a limited rgb tv setting...and your increasing the dynamic range without correcting the sets settings... Again, you can do the same thing by keeping it on limited/standard, and setting your tv brightness to 0 and contrast to 100...again...the settings are wrong...but you increase the dynamic range.
post #48 of 67
redwolf4k, I understand what you're saying, I'll test it here. Note that "crushed" means 15-235.

Test with AVS DVD
RBG/Standard = 0-255
RBG/Expanded = crushed
709/Standard = crushed
709/Expanded = crushed
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = crushed

Test with Call of Duty: Black Ops multiplayer level Hanoi (it's a nighttime map)
RBG/Standard = crushed
RBG/Expanded = 0-255
709/Standard = 0-255
709/Expanded = 0-255
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = 0-255

In conclusion: always use RGB, and when watching movies set the Reference Level to Standard, when playing games change the Reference Level to Expanded.
post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

UPDATE #1: Test with AVS DVD
RBG/Standard = 0-255
RBG/Expanded = 15-235
709/Standard = 15-235
709/Expanded = 15-235

UPDATE #2: Test with Call of Duty: Black Ops multiplayer level Hanoi (it's a nighttime map)
RBG/Standard = 15-235
RBG/Expanded = 0-255
709/Standard = 0-255
709/Expanded = 0-255

...Very interesting, it seems the range displayed depends on the source material being viewed. These results reveal that if you watch movies use Standard, if you play games use Expanded. Notice how Standard/Expanded has no effect when forcing YCbCr709!

Try comparing these results to "Source" mode. That would also have the advantage of not having the Xbox 360 convert movies to RGB.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexplainedBacon View Post

Try comparing these results to "Source" mode. That would also have the advantage of not having the Xbox 360 convert movies to RGB.

I added the following info the my previous post.

AVS DVD
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = crushed

Call of Duty: Black Ops multiplayer level Hanoi (it's a nighttime map)
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = 0-255

As expected Call of Duty preformed as expected, Standard is crushed, and Expanded isn't. ...But what wasn't expected was the AVS DVD being crushed for both Standard and Expanded I tested this 3 times because I didn't believe it myself! Do I hear a vote to test 'Auto' now, lolz...

Thus, if you use your Xbox for watching DVDs, then you should use RGB/Standard, if you use it for games use RGB/Expanded.
post #51 of 67
How is the PS3 as a blu ray player?

I currently only have a 360 and no blu ray player so am wondering how does the PS3's blu ray playback quality compare to say that of a stand alone non game system blu ray player?
post #52 of 67
This confuses me so much, when i use expanded cod for me looks like poo, so i'm using standard and source, what should i do??
post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyzeus View Post

How is the PS3 as a blu ray player?

I currently only have a 360 and no blu ray player so am wondering how does the PS3's blu ray playback quality compare to say that of a stand alone non game system blu ray player?

The PS3 is still the most highly recommended bluray player, it's good for movies, and as a bonus it plays games and has Netfix and other features... Def a good buy.

The only problem with the PS3 is a recent one: when they added the ability to play 3D movies, it won't properly play True HD audio at the same time. ...It might get fixed via firmware, dunno for sure. You can google it for more info.
post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrothermia View Post

This confuses me so much, when i use expanded cod for me looks like poo, so i'm using standard and source, what should i do??

What make/model is your TV? Is the TV on its default settings (from the store)? ...Any calibration is better than none, even if you do it yourself by eye.

Some TVs can't display full 0-255, yours might be one of them. ...Basically all you need to know from my findings is this: always use RGB, and when watching movies set the Reference Level to Standard, when playing games change the Reference Level to Expanded.

In summation: RGB. Movies = Standard. Games = Expanded.

...If you see a black crush then your TV isn't calibrated properly, or it isn't able to display full 0-255 to begin with.
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

What make/model is your TV? Is the TV on its default settings (from the store)? ...Any calibration is better than none, even if you do it yourself by eye.

Some TVs can't display full 0-255, yours might be one of them. ...Basically all you need to know from my findings is this: always use RGB, when watching movies set the Reference Level to Standard, if playing games change it to Expanded.

In summation: RGB. Movies = Standard. Games = Expanded.

...If you see a black crush then your TV isn't calibrated properly, or it isn't able to display full 0-255 to begin with.

I have panasonic g20 with HDMI, and i haven't calibrated it yet , how can i do it? Buy a thx dvd or download from the internet?
post #56 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrothermia View Post

I have panasonic g20

Your TV should be fine, since it has excellent blacks. It's probably just not calibrated, because Source/Expanded should have worked when viewing games. ...Which CoD are you playing? Have you accidentally adjusted the in-game brightness from its default position?

If you'd like to look into calibrating your TV, you can download and burn a disk straight from the AVS forums (thanks AVS ) HERE. I downloaded the MP4.exe file and burned it straight onto a DVD, and wallah it should work in your Xbox. ...You can't play it like a regular movie, you'll have to go to "Video Library" and play it that way.

p.s. If you'd like calibrating assistance just PM me and I'll give you some pointers.
post #57 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

redwolf4k, I understand what you're saying, I'll test it here. Note that "crushed" means 15-235.

Test with AVS DVD
RBG/Standard = 0-255
RBG/Expanded = crushed
709/Standard = crushed
709/Expanded = crushed
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = crushed

Test with Call of Duty: Black Ops multiplayer level Hanoi (it's a nighttime map)
RBG/Standard = crushed
RBG/Expanded = 0-255
709/Standard = 0-255
709/Expanded = 0-255
Source/Standard = crushed
Source/Expanded = 0-255

In conclusion: always use RGB, and when watching movies set the Reference Level to Standard, when playing games change the Reference Level to Expanded.

Choosing RGB for movies may result in reduced image quality due to the YCbCr to RGB conversion. However, your tests show that choosing Source (which would appear to be the best option) results in blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white being clipped so for HD movies it would be best to choose YCbCr 709 and Standard.

Also, you seem to be assuming that video levels (15-235) means that the source has been "crushed", but this is not always the case. The blacker-than-black information for a HD video (such as an HD DVD) is meant to be clipped during calibration and the whiter-than-white information is essentially "extra" that may or may not be displayed. This is not the same as taking the signal from a typical PC (in PC levels) and clipping the 0-14 and 235-255. It has also been said by several posters in the thread I linked to earlier that many Xbox 360 games render in video levels as opposed to PC levels. If this is true and a game is meant to render in video levels, selecting expanded could result in the image being unnecessarily processed instead of actually being rendered in PC levels.
post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

Your TV should be fine, since it has excellent blacks. It's probably just not calibrated, because Source/Expanded should have worked when viewing games. ...Which CoD are you playing? Have you accidentally adjusted the in-game brightness from its default position?

If you'd like to look into calibrating your TV, you can download and burn a disk straight from the AVS forums (thanks AVS ) HERE. I downloaded the MP4.exe file and burned it straight onto a DVD, and wallah it should work in your Xbox. ...You can't play it like a regular movie, you'll have to go to "Video Library" and play it that way.

p.s. If you'd like calibrating assistance just PM me and I'll give you some pointers.

Thank you so much AcidSnow!!
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnexplainedBacon View Post

Choosing RGB for movies may result in reduced image quality due to the YCbCr to RGB conversion. However, your tests show that choosing Source (which would appear to be the best option) results in blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white being clipped so for HD movies it would be best to choose YCbCr 709 and Standard.

Also, you seem to be assuming that video levels (15-235) means that the source has been "crushed", but this is not always the case. The blacker-than-black information for a HD video (such as an HD DVD) is meant to be clipped during calibration and the whiter-than-white information is essentially "extra" that may or may not be displayed. This is not the same as taking the signal from a typical PC (in PC levels) and clipping the 0-14 and 235-255. It has also been said by several posters in the thread I linked to earlier that many Xbox 360 games render in video levels as opposed to PC levels. If this is true and a game is meant to render in video levels, selecting expanded could result in the image being unnecessarily processed instead of actually being rendered in PC levels.

Well said Bacon, I should probably clarify that I'm guessing that no one uses their HD-DVD player anymore, and that 90% of users just play games. Thus for the majority of gamers RGB/Expanded should produce the best picture, assuming that #1 their TV is capable of 0-255 (and/or calibrated), and #2 their games are encoded at 0-255 (the majority of games are 0-255).

Additionally, I don't own an HD-DVD player, nor do I have previous knowledge of how they deal with 15-235 signals VS 0-255. ...So for the record, the results I've posted earlier only pertain to DVDs and [most] games.
post #60 of 67
What TV preset settings would you guys recommend for only gaming/low input lag? I'm just using default THX now
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