or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Best possible Netflix streaming device
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Best possible Netflix streaming device - Page 17

post #481 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Isn't the Sony Box only $80 and has wired and wireless? If so and it has all those services that sounds like a great deal

Yes on the later, MSRP is $100 on the former.
post #482 of 1242
I'm thinking that I'll probably buy one and if I like it better than my Roku 2, I'll sell that .
post #483 of 1242
Hey Mike, someone has a Sony N200 over in the Networking box forum. Go ahead and ask your questions. I think it's going to be hard to tell if it supports 1080p Netflix unless Sony says so.
post #484 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

Hey Mike, someone has a Sony N200 over in the Networking box forum. Go ahead and ask your questions. I think it's going to be hard to tell if it supports 1080p Netflix unless Sony says so.

Well, I can tell with my standard bandwidth consumption tests.
post #485 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Well, I can tell with my standard bandwidth consumption tests.

Yeah, as I said in that device's thread- unless Sony says it's 1080p I'll just assume it's not.

I don't think any of the new upcoming streaming devices have announced Netflix/1080p support (at least not yet).
post #486 of 1242
I suppose that I won't bother buying and trying it until there's some credible claim that it does 1080p Netflix.
post #487 of 1242
I don't know how any of the upcoming devices (Sony's, Netgear's, etc) can expect to compete with Roku if they don't offer Netflix/1080p support.
post #488 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I don't know how any of the upcoming devices (Sony's, Netgear's, etc) can expect to compete with Roku if they don't offer Netflix/1080p support.

I agree that more devices with 1080p would be great. But also consider these buying criteria...

AppleTV2 has an arguably better user interface.
PS3 is the most instantly responsive to user interaction.
LG devices offer native (24fps) frame rate output.
Some players also support optical media.
Many netflix players can also play files off of the LAN.

This isn't to say that Roku2 are bad devices. Rather, they aren't anywhere close to being an undisputed king of all media players. Roku is certainly among the best for netflix but netflix playback resolution isn't the only desirable feature.
post #489 of 1242
The PS3's Netflix audio support is borked. The way Sony/Netflix implement bug-fixes I don't expect them ever to resolve it.

As far as Netflix players, yes the Roku2 is the king. It's currently the only device that can output 1080p/DD+. Hopefully the next-gen Blu-Ray players will offer the same.
post #490 of 1242
So that means you don't see any value in well designed user interfaces, interface responsiveness, native framerates, etc?

I get what you're saying, but am filling in additional detail in case novices are reading this discussion.

While the Roku is the only player supports both 1080p and DD+ sound for netflix, this doesn't necessarily make it the best netflix capable player on the market. For some people, the other criteria (listed in my previous post) can be more critical. This is true even if viewing it from the rather limited perspective of being a single purpose box, a netflix player that does absolutely nothing else.

Real world examples:

I chose an LG player because native frame rate is more important to me than the additional resolution.

My parents would never stream netflix from the LG player because the interface is crap. However they love the AppleTV2 and actually use it. For them, the interface is more critical than increased resolution (which they can't even perceive).

And these examples were just limited to netflix playback. Keep in mind that many people prefer to not have a separate box and a separate remote just for netflix. The key here is that not everyone has the same needs or desires. While the Roku2 is clearly best for your needs, other devices are better for other people.
post #491 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

The PS3's Netflix audio support is borked. The way Sony/Netflix implement bug-fixes I don't expect them ever to resolve it.

As far as Netflix players, yes the Roku2 is the king. It's currently the only device that can output 1080p/DD+. Hopefully the next-gen Blu-Ray players will offer the same.

I needed a new 3D player and got the Samsung 6700. It has a great interface and 1080p/DD+. FWIW
post #492 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I needed a new 3D player and got the Samsung 6700. It has a great interface and 1080p/DD+. FWIW

But does it do netflix at 1080p/DD+? Samsung doesn't say that it does and I haven't seen any reviews or forum posts indicating support either.
post #493 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

But does it do netflix at 1080p/DD+? Samsung doesn't say that it does and I haven't seen any reviews or forum posts indicating support either.

No, it's 720p like every other hardware device. Right now only the PS3 and Roku2 can do 1080p. I'm sure the hardware manufacturers would shout it from the rooftops if their device supported 1080p as it appears they have to pay extra for it. That's the only reason I can figure more devices don't support it.

Since the PS3 slim's Netflix audio decoding is now totally screwed it appears I'll have no choice but to purchase a Roku2. I'm going to wait and see the the new $80 Netgear streamer supports 1080p, but I doubt it.
post #494 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

The PS3's Netflix audio support is borked. The way Sony/Netflix implement bug-fixes I don't expect them ever to resolve it.

Roughly 2-3 updates ago, I noticed when using Netflix that the PS3 will ONLY output the audio as PCM, despite having any settings I can change in setup set to bitstream.

The net results is that my AVR displays it's getting Multi-Channel In.... but I get NO audio to the center channel. It's plain old 2-channel for almost all shows/movies I've tried. Because the AVR thinks it's getting a multi-channel PCM, I cannot matrix sound (using DPLII or Neo) to the center like I could when the sound was received as a stereo signal.

I've tried this on 3 AVR's now - Denon AVR-1910, Marantz SR6005, and Denon AVR-991...

It's damn frustrating because I like to stream a fair amount with Netflix, and the PS3 is so much more responsive and a much better overall streaming device than the Panasonic BD85 I have in my bedroom... but now I cannot get audio through the center channel when using the PS3.

Has anyone figured out how to get around this?

EDIT: Oops, missed that someone already posted about this issue:
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I was sending out 7.1 over HDMI whether the audio track was 2.0 or 5.1. So you couldn't apply any post processing so for 2.0 audio you only had sound from the FL/FR and with 5.1 audio was missing sound from the two surround back channels.
It only affected the Netflix application. VUDU and Hulu+ were still fine.
post #495 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

The Panasonic DMP-BDT210: Has Wireless. Netflix. HD (720p) and Dolby support. Subtitles. Low power consumption. Dedicated Netflix button on the remote. Need I say more?

Except there are a ton of complaints from owners of that BD player that Netflix streaming won't work properly for them... especially wireless streaming...

While I don't have Netflix problems on my BD85, it is slow as hell to load (and this is with a wired connection), and generally just not very responsive. The interface is ancient too...

For now, I'm staying away from Panasonic as a streaming device...
post #496 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

Except there are a ton of complaints from owners of that BD player that Netflix streaming won't work properly for them... especially wireless streaming...

A ton, huh? Quantify "a ton" . I hear some complaints in the BDTx10 thread, but I think that the vast majority of us haven't had any problems with Netflix. (There is one Netflix bug which has been experienced by many--the "black flashes" problem--but it only happens when available bandwidth on your connection to Netflix fluctuates, dipping below 5 Mpbs while watching HD; many have never seen it).

Nothing that you can buy is guaranteed to work well with your equipment. Consequently, I always buy from someplace with a good return policy (like Amazon--you can return anything to them without charge or penalty if it doesn't work, and just postage if you didn't care for it or purchased it incorrectly due to your mistake; if you ask for a replacement, they'll ship it immediately, only charging you if they don't get the original back within 30 days).

Quote:


While I don't have Netflix problems on my BD85, it is slow as hell to load (and this is with a wired connection), and generally just not very responsive. The interface is ancient too...

For now, I'm staying away from Panasonic as a streaming device...

Suit yourself. I have six streamers: Roku 2, BDT110, PS3, Xbox, TiVo S3 and this PC (connected to the same AVR and 46" 1080p panel as the others). I count the BDT110 as the 2nd best, behind the Roku 2 (if the Roku 2 had VUDU I'd rarely use anything else). The Viera Connect Netflix player on the BDT110 takes the same 20 seconds to start as the one on the PS3, both being Webkit/HTML5 based--their GUIs were identical (my favorite variant) before the PS3's was changed to the one that nobody likes. The PS3 is a bit more responsive, but the BDT110 is not annoyingly sluggish. The BDT110 also bitstreams DD+ for Netflix titles with 5.1 sound and it sounds really good. The VUDU player on the BDT110 is identical to the PS3's and is just as responsive--it's hands down my choice for VUDU. I don't watch discs anymore, but it's an extremely fast-loading BD player. I bought the thing as a streamer, choosing it over the old Roku XD.
post #497 of 1242
Tried doing some searches but the different abbreviations make it difficult.

Does the Western Digital WD TV Live Plus HD employ adaptive bitrates for Netflix?
post #498 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

A ton, huh? Quantify "a ton" . I hear some complaints in the BDTx10 thread, but I think that the vast majority of us haven't had any problems with Netflix. (There is one Netflix bug which has been experienced by many--the "black flashes" problem--but it only happens when available bandwidth on your connection to Netflix fluctuates, dipping below 5 Mpbs while watching HD; many have never seen it).

Nothing that you can buy is guaranteed to work well with your equipment. Consequently, I always buy from someplace with a good return policy (like Amazon--you can return anything to them without charge or penalty if it doesn't work, and just postage if you didn't care for it or purchased it incorrectly due to your mistake; if you ask for a replacement, they'll ship it immediately, only charging you if they don't get the original back within 30 days).


Suit yourself. I have six streamers: Roku 2, BDT110, PS3, Xbox, TiVo S3 and this PC (connected to the same AVR and 46" 1080p panel as the others). I count the BDT110 as the 2nd best, behind the Roku 2 (if the Roku 2 had VUDU I'd rarely use anything else). The Viera Connect Netflix player on the BDT110 takes the same 20 seconds to start as the one on the PS3, both being Webkit/HTML5 based--their GUIs were identical (my favorite variant) before the PS3's was changed to the one that nobody likes. The PS3 is a bit more responsive, but the BDT110 is not annoyingly sluggish. The BDT110 also bitstreams DD+ for Netflix titles with 5.1 sound and it sounds really good. The VUDU player on the BDT110 is identical to the PS3's and is just as responsive--it's hands down my choice for VUDU. I don't watch discs anymore, but it's an extremely fast-loading BD player. I bought the thing as a streamer, choosing it over the old Roku XD.

"A ton" might be a big of an overstatement on my part... but nonetheless, there are complaints:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/community-c...XO&sort=rating
http://reviews.cnet.com/blu-ray-play...sc&tag=srt;low


I've only used the PS3, Panasonic BD85, and Wii (prior to the the 2) for Netflix streaming, and the BD85 is very inconsistent in the time it takes to open up the network apps, and and generally just sluggish as hell with Netflix. For Amazon on Demand, it has worked well though. Haven't used it for Vudu - only used the PS3 for that.

But for Netflix, the PS3 loads the app quicker, and is alot more responsive. That said, Sony s#*t the bed with the new Neflix interface, and the audio issue... so what was a great Netflix streaming device currently sucks.

Perhaps I'll look into the Panasonic players a bit more... If only Costco carried the BDT210/110... since their return policy is awesome.

On a side note... for the Roku 2... do you have any issues with that, other than lacking Vudu?
post #499 of 1242
Those kinds of things happen with every player. Most of the time it's Netflix's fault. There's nothing you can do in that case but exchange your player, because Neflix will never fix the authorization glitch on their end. It's happened to me at least 3 times in the past couple of years, each time on a different brand player.

Bottom line is Panasonic has one of the best NF interfaces around at the moment at a very reasonable price. Considering the player is almost free if you sell the Avatar disc, you have nothing to lose.
post #500 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

On a side note... for the Roku 2... do you have any issues with that, other than lacking Vudu?

There are a couple of bugs in its Netflix player: it's using the wrong colorspace, so contrast is overblown for many people (my television can apparently deal so it hasn't affected me). It sometimes fails to recognize that a title has HD encodings and/or 5.1 sound. The HD thing is a minor annoyance, since you'll get the HD encodings whether it mentions them in the title description or not. The sound is another issue, since you have to select it and if it doesn't acknowledge that 5.1 sound is available you don't get an option for it. I ran into this just recently with TrollHunter--I had to choose between watching it in 1080p (on the Roku) or watching it with 5.1 sound (on the BDT110). Both issues are known to Roku and will hopefully be fixed in a firmware update soon. (Also, it makes stereo sound the default for titles which feature 5.1; both the BDT110 and PS3 default to 5.1, which I think only makes sense if you've selected surround sound output in the device's options)

Again, the Roku is very nearly perfect. I'm not in love with its Netflix GUI, but it's perfectly serviceable, easy and pleasant to use (I think that its TV-series episode selector--same as in the Amazon player--is especially stupid and wasteful of screen real estate). I use its Pandora player all of the time (I have Pandora on the BDT110, my AVR and the PC as well--I'm not sure why I choose the Roku). It has Crackle, Epix and a buttload of free and paid "channels" available, with new ones popping up periodically. It supposedly consumes less than 2 watts in operation, less than some night lights. As I said, if they added VUDU I'd rarely use anything else for streaming video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Considering the player is almost free if you sell the Avatar disc, you have nothing to lose.

Good point--I just got paid for selling my disc on Amazon (amazingly easy, painless process, head and shoulders above eBay). I put it up for $110 at 9PM on a Friday, undercutting all but one of the others, and it'd sold when I checked the next morning (I wrapped it up and got it in the mail that day). After Amazon's cut my profit is about $90, reducing the cost of the player to $43. I bought mine back in March for $133; now Amazon has it for $106, so if I bought it at that price it would have worked out to $16 .
post #501 of 1242
Right now I just use the BDT110 as my Netflix viewer and will wait on a cheaper 1080p/DD+ solution. It's too bad they screwed the PS3's audio output or I'd still be using that.
post #502 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

So that means you don't see any value in well designed user interfaces, interface responsiveness, native framerates, etc?

I get what you're saying, but am filling in additional detail in case novices are reading this discussion.

While the Roku is the only player supports both 1080p and DD+ sound for netflix, this doesn't necessarily make it the best netflix capable player on the market. For some people, the other criteria (listed in my previous post) can be more critical. This is true even if viewing it from the rather limited perspective of being a single purpose box, a netflix player that does absolutely nothing else.

Real world examples:

I chose an LG player because native frame rate is more important to me than the additional resolution.
....

It's true that the LG can display Netflix content at 24 fps. AFAIK, there's no easy way to tell if the Netflix content is in 24 or 30 fps. You basically need to start a title and if it seems choppy, then switch to the other video setting. Not ideal.

The Boxee may be able to pull it off at 720P. It has a setting to automatically detect frame rate. The problem is my display only supports 24 fps at 1080P not 720P. Regardless, you have to give up 1080P to get the proper frame rate.
post #503 of 1242
Do any of you guys using the BDT110 have experience using the wireless usb dongle?

I have the one that came with my BD85, and I don't need it in that room, so I could use it with the BDT110 rather than ponying up the extra cash for the BDT210, provided the dongle works as well as the built in wireless....
post #504 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

It's true that the LG can display Netflix content at 24 fps. AFAIK, there's no easy way to tell if the Netflix content is in 24 or 30 fps. You basically need to start a title and if it seems choppy, then switch to the other video setting. Not ideal.

The Boxee may be able to pull it off at 720P. It has a setting to automatically detect frame rate. The problem is my display only supports 24 fps at 1080P not 720P. Regardless, you have to give up 1080P to get the proper frame rate.

The LG player only uses 24p mode for 24p content. Everything else is displayed at 60p. In other words, you can set it to 24p mode and not have to toggle it back and forth. 30fps content will still be displayed at 60p. The player automatically switches between refresh rates. The menu system remains at the refresh rate of the last video that was played.

But yeah, currently there are no netflix players that do both 1080 and 24fps.
post #505 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

The LG player only uses 24p mode for 24p content. Everything else is displayed at 60p. In other words, you can set it to 24p mode and not have to toggle it back and forth. 30fps content will still be displayed at 60p. The player automatically switches between refresh rates. The menu system remains at the refresh rate of the last video that was played.

But yeah, currently there are no netflix players that do both 1080 and 24fps.

So does it display the Netflix 720P content(which is 720P24) at 1080P24?

The Boxee Box doesn't pay the 1080P24 content from Netflix yet so I don't know if it will play it at 1080P24 like it does my local content. I run my boxes at 1080P24 and when it plays 30fps content it will play that at 1080P60.
With the Netflix 720P24 content it does play it at 1080P24.
post #506 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So does it display the Netflix 720P content(which is 720P24) at 1080P24?

Exactly. The LG players upscale 720p netflix streams to 1080p. Output resolution is controlled via the setup menu and is fixed at whatever you set it to. Refresh rate is 60p if set to 60p mode. However the refresh rate auto-switches between 24p and 60p when set to 24pmode. Strangely, these LG players only support 24p when resolution is set to 1080. If set to 720, 24p isn't even an option.

To simplify... it works great if your display supports both 1080p24 and 1080p60. The LG players will always output 24 and 30 fps content at the correct/native framerate. This includes netflix! However if your display only does 720, than 24p isn't an option. Everything will be output at 720p60.
post #507 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Exactly. The LG players upscale 720p netflix streams to 1080p. Output resolution is controlled via the setup menu and is fixed at whatever you set it to. Refresh rate is 60p if set to 60p mode. However the refresh rate auto-switches between 24p and 60p when set to 24pmode. Strangely, these LG players only support 24p when resolution is set to 1080. If set to 720, 24p isn't even an option.

To simplify... it works great if your display supports both 1080p24 and 1080p60. The LG players will always output 24 and 30 fps content at the correct/native framerate. This includes netflix! However if your display only does 720, than 24p isn't an option. Everything will be output at 720p60.

Which is exactly my dilema.

1. BD390 Netflix playback

+ supports 24P, correct HDMI black levels

- highest res 720P and only stereo

2. ROKU 2 XS

+ 1080P, 5.1 audio

- incorrect HDMI black levels, no 24P support

ROKU has confirmed the HDMI black level issue - so it should be fixed. Now if only they would support 24P it would be the perfect (2W) Netflix player for me. Until then the choice is 24P or 1080P with 5.1 - but not all together.

You wouldn't think it not would be that hard for one of the Netflix players to get everything right.............
post #508 of 1242

New WD Live Streamer offers 1080p/5.1 Netflix streaming.

If you look closely it also has a True-HD logo on the box. Nice. I'm hoping it supports TrueHD/DTS-MA bitstreaming. We'll see...

So there are now 3 new streaming boxes- Sony, Netgear and WD. We know the WD is 1080p Netflix, have yet to find out about the Netgear and if the Sony has a planned firmware update...
post #509 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post


New WD Live Streamer offers 1080p/5.1 Netflix streaming.

If you look closely it also has a True-HD logo on the box. Nice. I'm hoping it supports TrueHD/DTS-MA bitstreaming. We'll see...

So there are now 3 new streaming boxes- Sony, Netgear and WD. We know the WD is 1080p Netflix, have yet to find out about the Netgear and if the Sony has a planned firmware update...

Sadly, the WD has no VUDU or Amazon .

Lossless encoding from network streaming is a dream. Very often, lossless sound is encoded at bitrates matching or exceeding Netflix's 3.8 Mbps 720p (see this table, set the audio filter to "Lossless" and click the "Audio Bitrate" heading to sort). We may get it someday, but for now so few people have the home network service bandwidth to stream it that it's not worth bothering to offer. I think that the streamer has the ability to decode those sound formats to support streaming BD rips from machines on your LAN.
post #510 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Lossless encoding from network streaming is a dream. Very often, lossless sound is encoded at bitrates matching or exceeding Netflix's 3.8 Mbps 720p (see this table, set the audio filter to "Lossless" and click the "Audio Bitrate" heading to sort). We may get it someday, but for now so few people have the home network service bandwidth to stream it that it's not worth bothering to offer. I think that the streamer has the ability to decode those sound formats to support streaming BD rips from machines on your LAN.

Gotta agree that it's for decoding BD rips on your network. There aren't any streaming services that have even hinted at streaming lossless.

Although I would think there are quite a few people capable of streaming it with Netflix's current bitrates. Even if it was double (as you point out), it only would take 8-10 Mbps or so, right? Yeah, it eliminates a lot of slower connections, but that's really not that much for cable or FiOS (I've been over 20Mbps for years now).

But yeah, it does further eliminate people on lower bandwidths. Regardless, no plans from any providers to offer it anyways (that I'm aware of).
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › Best possible Netflix streaming device