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Best possible Netflix streaming device - Page 26

post #751 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Agreed. Dolby Digital Plus definitely sounds better than Dolby Digital from Netflix. And yes, I have done LOTS of A/B testing with different Netflix devices to confirm it.

From my understanding there is no regular Dolby Digital from Netflix only DD+.

And the question I had was if anyone had done an A-B comparison of DVD Dolby Digital(5.1) and Netflix DD+(5.1) using the same film to see how much of an improvement there is.
post #752 of 1242
Is there any difference in the video streaming quality of the Roku 1080p units and the Panasonic Blu-ray players, such as the 110? Thanks.
post #753 of 1242
Yes there is. Panasonic doesn't stream some content, like Netflix, in 1080P.
post #754 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stockton View Post

From my understanding there is no regular Dolby Digital from Netflix only DD+.

Netflix is also serving out Dolby Digital. It's how the Apple TV provides Netflix surround sound. The Apple TV can't handle DD+. In another words, it's getting DD from Netflix; not down-mixing the DD+ track into DD.
post #755 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Yes there is. Panasonic doesn't stream some content, like Netflix, in 1080P.

Thanks. Does anyone know if the new Panasonic players announced at CES will stream Netflix in 1080p?
post #756 of 1242
I'm enjoying my WD TV Live. It's one of the few units that can output DD+/24p for both Netflix and Vudu (you have to force it). Looks and sounds great. The only thing missing is Amazon support.
post #757 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Netflix is also serving out Dolby Digital. It's how the Apple TV provides Netflix surround sound. The Apple TV can't handle DD+. In another words, it's getting DD from Netflix; not down-mixing the DD+ track into DD.

So they have another set of 5.1 audio tracks in DD just for the Apple TV?
post #758 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Thanks. Does anyone know if the new Panasonic players announced at CES will stream Netflix in 1080p?

Waiting to hear for the official word. I asked the question to Panasonic and few other companies at CES. Most of them said "should support it but would have to confirm". Regardless, the new Pannys will be here in April and we'll know then.
post #759 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So they have another set of 5.1 audio tracks in DD just for the Apple TV?

Yes, but I think other devices are also using it such as the Xbox.
post #760 of 1242
I have a question which has been bugging me for a long time. If the original stereo stream from Netflix is regular DD at 192 Kbps, then why is it the display on my AVR shows it as PCM audio??
'
post #761 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stockton View Post

I have a question which has been bugging me for a long time. If the original stereo stream from Netflix is regular DD at 192 Kbps, then why is it the display on my AVR shows it as PCM audio??
'

The 3 y/o Netflix blog "Encoding for streaming" entry had this to say about audio:
Quote:
Stereo Audio

Today, we cannot use WMDRM to deliver AC3 or DD+ audio, which means that only stereo (delivered via WMA) is available. PCs and Macs decode the WMA, and CE players also transcode to PCM for digital connections to receivers. We could technically include multichannel audio using WMAPro, but essentially no receivers are actually capable of decoding that. We are working on solutions to deliver multichannel audio for all the streams where we have suitable source, but this won't happen in 2008 for sure.

(Emphasis added). I believe that they still use WMA for stereo. It's up to 192 Kbps for embedded players and 64 Kbps for PCs (and presumably Macs).
post #762 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Waiting to hear for the official word. I asked the question to Panasonic and few other companies at CES. Most of them said "should support it but would have to confirm". Regardless, the new Pannys will be here in April and we'll know then.

Thanks. I'm hoping they stream 1080p, then I will upgrade my BD65.
post #763 of 1242
Quote:
I believe that they still use WMA for stereo. It's up to 192 Kbps for embedded players and 64 Kbps for PCs (and presumably Macs).

I have wondered why the PCM from Netflix is nowhere near the quality of PCM from CDs.



CE players also transcode to PCM for digital connections to receivers


Can you explain the above statement a bit more. What is CE players??



Thanks
post #764 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stockton View Post

I have wondered why the PCM from Netflix is nowhere near the quality of PCM from CDs.

CE players also transcode to PCM for digital connections to receivers

Can you explain the above statement a bit more. What is CE players??

PCM from CDs sounds better because it is a MUCH higher bit rate (1411 kbps).

CE Players = Consumer Electronics Players. This term is used to distinguish from netflix being watched on a computer (Mac or PC).

Most receivers or TVs can't decode WMA. Because of this, consumer electronic netflix players convert WMA audio to a more common audio standard (such as PCM) for playback on a receiver or TV.
post #765 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

I'm enjoying my WD TV Live. It's one of the few units that can output DD+/24p for both Netflix and Vudu (you have to force it). Looks and sounds great. The only thing missing is Amazon support.

I've had my WD TV Live for a few weeks now and really like it. I also own the Roku XD which supports Amazon for those titles that are HD with 5.1 sound. For Netflix and VUDU the WD is my go-to device. I feed both streamers into my Denon 2309CI receiver via HDMI and when the Dolby Digital Plus signal is detected the blue [HD Audio] light comes on. When I check the status on the receiver for DD+ the sampling frequency is 48 kHz. When I watch an HD title on Amazon Instant Prime which has regular Dolby Digital 5.1 the sampling frequency is also 48 kHz but there is no corresponding [HD Audio] blue light. I gather from the discussion here that the data bitrate is what triggers the receiver to recognize the sound as DD+ and not the 48 kHz sampling frequency. So my question is - if the audio bitrate is higher for DVD's than internet streaming bitrates why doesn't the HD Audio light up when I play a DVD but it does for DD+? Is there something else in play?
post #766 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

PCM from CDs sounds better because it is a MUCH higher bit rate (1411 kbps).

CE Players = Consumer Electronics Players. This term is used to distinguish from netflix being watched on a computer (Mac or PC).

Most receivers or TVs can't decode WMA. Because of this, consumer electronic netflix players convert WMA audio to a more common audio standard (such as PCM) for playback on a receiver or TV.


Thanks for the clarification. Well I researched about WMA some more and it seems they do have a LOSSLESS version called WMA lossless. I wonder why Netflix does not use that instead of the normal one. Probably because of bandwith.

And CDs, having almost 7.5 times the bit rate, do of course dwarf the 192 Kbps PCM from Netflix.
post #767 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Stockton View Post

Thanks for the clarification. Well I researched about WMA some more and it seems they do have a LOSSLESS version called WMA lossless. I wondered why Netflix does not use that instead of the the normal one. Probably because of bandwith.

Very much so.
Quote:


And CDs, having almost 7.5 times the bit rate, do of course dwarf the 192 Kbps PCM from Netflix.

It's not 192 Kbps PCM, which is uncompressed, but 192 Kbps WMA, which is compressed (and the most common bit rate for stereo music files encoded in WMA). I'm pretty sure that 192 Kbps PCM would be pretty poor.
post #768 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

II gather from the discussion here that the data bitrate is what triggers the receiver to recognize the sound as DD+ and not the 48 kHz sampling frequency.

DD+ is a different format, so it's recognizing the headers rather than inspecting anything about the data rate.

Michael - I thought the assumption was that the AVC streams come with stereo AC3, per the PS3 disc player however many moons ago.
post #769 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

Michael - I thought the assumption was that the AVC streams come with stereo AC3, per the PS3 disc player however many moons ago.

I do remember that. I dunno--could be. But in that case, why don't the players bitstream it? Just about any AVR and television could handle playing that.
post #770 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

DD+ is a different format, so it's recognizing the headers rather than inspecting anything about the data rate.

Okay, thanks for that. I suspected it had to do with a header/flag in the stream. I went to the Dolby website to read some more about it.

Quote:


Metadata that describes the content and in effect talks to your playback system

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...tal-plus.html#

So I am assuming that my WD TV Live just passes the stream untouched for my Denon receiver to decode?

As an aside I was testing the WD TV Live around 8 PM last night and watched an episode of Warehouse 13 with DD+ on Netflix and then followed that with The Whistleblower HDX movie on VUDU. The VUDU stream showed a fairly steady download speed of 9 Mbps, the Netflix spiked at around 6 Mbps then fell back gradually. The image attached is from the Tomato firmware on my Buffalo router.
LL
post #771 of 1242
I hope you fellows and gals could help a old man. I'm in the need for a streaming box. I now have a Logitech Revue, which they ruin will the latest upgrade, the video was degraded. I also recently returned a Roku box which I found to be underpowered and unstable.
My needs are streaming Netflix with subtitles, Tech.tv and Revision3. Is there a box powerful enough, or should I just get a Mac Mini.
Thanks in advance for your help.
post #772 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenager62 View Post

I hope you fellows and gals could help a old man. I'm in the need for a streaming box. I now have a Logitech Revue, which they ruin will the latest upgrade, the video was degraded. I also recently returned a Roku box which I found to be underpowered and unstable.
My needs are streaming Netflix with subtitles, Tech.tv and Revision3. Is there a box powerful enough, or should I just get a Mac Mini.
Thanks in advance for your help.

What were your problems with the Roku? My Roku 2 XS performs excellently. I've only used it for Netflix (primarily), Amazon, HBO Go and Epix (I've tried a few other things).

I have no idea what boxes other than Roku have Tech.tv and Revision3. You should look at WD TV Live and Boxee.
post #773 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

What were your problems with the Roku? My Roku 2 XS performs excellently. I've only used it for Netflix (primarily), Amazon, HBO Go and Epix (I've tried a few other things).

I have no idea what boxes other than Roku have Tech.tv and Revision3. You should look at WD TV Live and Boxee.


I had a Roku2 XD. When I activated the Netflix app the icons(movie and TV) were slow to come up and some never would come up, even though it played the movies fine.
As far as Tech.tv is concerned, especially the live feed, it would motorboat and the video quality was very low.
post #774 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenager62 View Post

I hope you fellows and gals could help a old man. I'm in the need for a streaming box. I now have a Logitech Revue, which they ruin will the latest upgrade, the video was degraded. I also recently returned a Roku box which I found to be underpowered and unstable.

I found the Logitech Revue (with 3.1 update) handled Netflix very nicely especially with low bandwidth... much nicer than several other streamers. My guess is since you have had issues with both you'll find some with the others as well.
post #775 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I found the Logitech Revue (with 3.1 update) handled Netflix very nicely especially with low bandwidth... much nicer than several other streamers. My guess is since you have had issues with both you'll find some with the others as well.

I have a solid 14.5 Mpbs download.
Maybe I expect too much from these $100 boxes. Maybe some manufacturer will sell a high power box someday.
I see Vizio is coming out with a couple of boxes this year, maybe I will give them a try.
post #776 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenager62 View Post

I had a Roku2 XD. When I activated the Netflix app the icons(movie and TV) were slow to come up and some never would come up, even though it played the movies fine.
As far as Tech.tv is concerned, especially the live feed, it would motorboat and the video quality was very low.

I saw the Netflix thumbs as more of a bug than anything (extremely inconsistent whether or where it will happen) and not a particularly annoying one. I don't use Tech.tv so I have no idea. I bought the XS because I don't use wireless for anything other than portable devices (tablets, phones and laptops) due to the inescapable crappy latency and limited throughput, so mine is wired.

Sorry you had such a bad experience with it. My problem with it is its lack of VUDU--if it had that, it'd be perfect and if I find a streamer with 1080p/5.1/CC-capable Netflix, 5.1-capable Amazon and VUDU, I'll buy it and sell the Roku.

BTW, solid throughput to your network service provider's CO (all that they can guarantee) is no indication of the bandwidth you'll get on a connection to any streaming service (except that you're unlikely to get higher bandwidth than the maximum you've paid for ). I've seen times when I can't get HD-level bandwidth to Netflix when I can download at the full rated 25 Mbps speed of my service from other sites.
post #777 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenager62 View Post

Maybe I expect too much from these $100 boxes. Maybe some manufacturer will sell a high power box someday.

I think the box is virtually irrelevant. Try a multi-thousand dollar PC and I'm pretty sure you'll see the same issues.
post #778 of 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenager62 View Post

I have a solid 14.5 Mpbs download.
Maybe I expect too much from these $100 boxes. Maybe some manufacturer will sell a high power box someday.
I see Vizio is coming out with a couple of boxes this year, maybe I will give them a try.

It would seem that something is very wrong here. A solid 14.5 Mbps download (measured on your PC?) but your streaming player doesn't function correctly? Are your players linked with wireless or wired ethernet? What about your router? What brand is it? Is it new or old? My first impression is that there is something faulty in your setup somewhere. Perhaps your Roku2 XD box was a dud, it happens. But now your Logitech Revue is also not functioning properly? This seems to be stretching coincidence as a factor.
post #779 of 1242
I'm very surprised at the improvement I notice when I compare the performance of my Roku2 XS over my old setup with my Sammy blue ray player, the difference is quite stunning. I was getting HD feeds with the Sammy, but the Roku 2 blows it away, add DD 5.1 sound and it a winner.

I am feeding it with CAT 5 on a 12m connection, not sure why Goldenager62 was having issues, perhaps it was his wireless connection, for streaming I will only go wired. I think the Roku2 is the winner hands down in terms of Netflix quality. I have no idea why anyone would expect Vizio to put out anything better.
post #780 of 1242
Windows Media Center for the best UI (usability/speed) and picture quality.
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