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Best possible Netflix streaming device - Page 29

post #841 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I was never ever to sustain X-High with 6Mbps DSL service. There is enough overhead inherent within the line that at best you will end up with 5.4Mbps (if you are extremely lucky - typically 5.2 is great) which isn't fast enough to keep up. Best case you'll bounce into X-High 10 per cent of the time (or so).

This was my expectation, but I had extended arguments with someone who claimed that he was getting the 1080p encoding with 6 Mbps service (I forget who it was but he usually pops up to object whenever I claim that you need 7 Mbps ). He too was running Tomato in his router and produced graphs showing bandwidth consumption, which was almost constantly maxed out with just the occasional dip. He claimed that he was consistently seeing 1080p through some of the highest bandwidth sequences (my test standard, minutes 5-14 of Ong Bak 2, an encoder-challenging 10 solid minutes of martial arts combat in the rain). I surmised that if you can constantly sustain 6 Mbps throughput to your Netflix server it's possible that it will be sufficient.
post #842 of 1001
The Netflix iPad app has been updated to include a high res interface for use on retina displays. I tried it out this morning and it makes a surprising difference while browsing for movies. With increased detail, movie icons are much more useful. You can actually see all of the detail in the shrunken dvd-cases/movie-posters.

Netflix also tweeted that HD streaming is in the works!

http://www.latimes.com/business/tech...,4258482.story

Another interesting tweeted factoid is that the current iPad app streams 640x480 at 1350 kbps.
post #843 of 1001
I really wish they'd put in movie reviews for the iPad app. That's one of my favorite things to do before and after watching movies on Netflix.
post #844 of 1001
I am going to try netflix streaming again and have some special needs as i am hearing impaired:

Want good picture quality (at least 720p; would like 1080p)
Audio not important-MUST have captions or subtitles
Would like to surf the internet occasionaly
have a hard wired internet jack behind tv (Sony 60a200)
Bell South's top interent package-good speed

Any suggestions for a device at a decent price would be appreciated.
post #845 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjhseven View Post

I am going to try netflix streaming again and have some special needs as i am hearing impaired:

Want good picture quality (at least 720p; would like 1080p)
Audio not important-MUST have captions or subtitles
Would like to surf the internet occasionaly
have a hard wired internet jack behind tv (Sony 60a200)
Bell South's top interent package-good speed

Any suggestions for a device at a decent price would be appreciated.

The Internet surfing requirement is the curveball; I'd otherwise suggest the Roku 2 XD or XS ($80 and $100 list, with plenty of sellers discounting them a bit). The only devices that I've personally tried which have all of those capabilities are Sony's new BDP-S390 BD player for $130 (non-3D; the 3D BDP-S390 is currently $134 at Amazon) and the PS3, which is overkill for your purposes and sells for $300 at the low end. I've only had the S390 for about a week and have experienced some problems with Netflix playback, but as no one else in the thread discussing these players have experienced these there may be some local conditions contributing to those (someone suggested that turning off "Quick Start" seemed to make his Netflix problems go away).

There are about 13,600 Netflix titles altogether, and about 4,900 of them are HD (almost all of the HD titles can be seen in 1080p, if there's 6-7 Mbps bandwidth available on your connection to Netflix). There are about 4,900 titles with closed captions and some 2,600+ HD titles with closed captions, a list of which can be seen here.
post #846 of 1001
Thanks for the great info!
post #847 of 1001
Initially I was not impressed with the Apple TV 3 as Netflix had a lot of artifacts and compression problems. However, over the last few days, Netflix must have made some adjustments as PQ is excellent. In fact, the ATV3 loads faster than my boxee box or Roku XD. With 60 Mbs DL speeds, everything is nice and smooth with no hiccups with any device.
post #848 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The Internet surfing requirement is the curveball; I'd otherwise suggest the Roku 2 XD or XS ($80 and $100 list, with plenty of sellers discounting them a bit). The only devices that I've personally tried which have all of those capabilities are Sony's new BDP-S390 BD player for $130 (non-3D; the 3D BDP-S390 is currently $134 at Amazon) and the PS3, which is overkill for your purposes and sells for $300 at the low end. I've only had the S390 for about a week and have experienced some problems with Netflix playback, but as no one else in the thread discussing these players have experienced these there may be some local conditions contributing to those (someone suggested that turning off "Quick Start" seemed to make his Netflix problems go away).

There are about 13,600 Netflix titles altogether, and about 4,900 of them are HD (almost all of the HD titles can be seen in 1080p, if there's 6-7 Mbps bandwidth available on your connection to Netflix). There are about 4,900 titles with closed captions and some 2,600+ HD titles with closed captions, a list of which can be seen here.

Agree about the Roku 2, Amazon has the best one on sale right now for $79.99 with free shipping.
post #849 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Initially I was not impressed with the Apple TV 3 as Netflix had a lot of artifacts and compression problems. However, over the last few days, Netflix must have made some adjustments as PQ is excellent. In fact, the ATV3 loads faster than my boxee box or Roku XD. With 60 Mbs DL speeds, everything is nice and smooth with no hiccups with any device.

Artifacts and compression problems sound more like network congestion caused a low bitrate to be negotiated with the netflix servers. Millions of netflix users sometimes experience problems that miraculously come and go. Sometimes those problems are in the home (usually wifi) and other times the problems are outside the home, either with the connection to the ISP or elsewhere in the bowels of the internet.

To me the ATV3 load times seem reasonable. They aren't instantaneous like the PS3, but still quite good. Edit: To clarify, the ATV3 netflix app loads extremely fast! The entire interface is one of the most responsive available. However movie load/buffer times are about average.
post #850 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjhseven View Post

I am going to try netflix streaming again and have some special needs as i am hearing impaired:

Want good picture quality (at least 720p; would like 1080p)
Audio not important-MUST have captions or subtitles
Would like to surf the internet occasionaly
have a hard wired internet jack behind tv (Sony 60a200)
Bell South's top interent package-good speed

Any suggestions for a device at a decent price would be appreciated.

My advice would be to forget surfing the web from any of the netflix streaming boxes. None of them offer even a remotely decent web browsing experience.

If mostly concerned about netflix, the Apple TV 3 is my current recommendation. It has what I consider to be the best netflix library browsing interface. If interested in other streaming services, the Roku boxes are quite nice.
post #851 of 1001
The Roku boxes are somewhat questionable. I have the latest Roku 2 XS that works fine via ethernet and consistently get 40 to 50 Mbs DL speeds. However, when connected via wifi to my airport extreme it drops to 5 to 6 Mbs. All my other wifi devices, including ATV3, computers, etc maintain a 40 to 50 Mbs DL on wifi. The Roku is a bit flakey with wifi.
post #852 of 1001
Do you know if this is systemic issue? Or is it personal experience?

Pretty much every wifi product ever manufactured has had the same thing reported about them. Somewhere someone is having a problem with wifi reception or reliability.

Thus it is important to distinguish if the issue is a personal anecdote or a known problem for an entire product line.
post #853 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Do you know if this is systemic issue? Or is it personal experience?

Pretty much every wifi product ever manufactured has had the same thing reported about them. Somewhere someone is having a problem with wifi reception or reliability.

Thus it is important to distinguish if the issue is a personal anecdote or a known problem for an entire product line.

On the Roku forums there have been many people reporting the issue. The wifi range is not that great on the Roku. I have my wifi router upstairs and the Roku downstairs with my other equipment. The Roku is the only one that struggles that far away from the router. My first generation Roku HD had the same problem.
post #854 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

The Roku boxes are somewhat questionable. I have the latest Roku 2 XS that works fine via ethernet and consistently get 40 to 50 Mbs DL speeds. However, when connected via wifi to my airport extreme it drops to 5 to 6 Mbs. All my other wifi devices, including ATV3, computers, etc maintain a 40 to 50 Mbs DL on wifi. The Roku is a bit flakey with wifi.

My Roku2 XS has been great with Wifi. The experience over a WiFi connection has been identical to the wired connection.

The wired connection was the only reason I got the XS box. But I don't even use it so I wish I had purchased the XD instead. My second box will be the XD since the LT version has been discontinued and the prices have shot up on Amazon for it.
post #855 of 1001
rjhseven has stated that he's using a wired connection (as am I) so the Roku's wireless capabilities aren't relevant for him. The ATV3's Netflix browser is the prettiest and since his hearing is bad its inability to bitstream Netflix' DD+ is also not relevant. If what he wants is just Netflix, it's probably a very good choice.

My problem with it is that I need Netflix, Amazon and VUDU and it only does one of them.
post #856 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

The Roku boxes are somewhat questionable. I have the latest Roku 2 XS that works fine via ethernet and consistently get 40 to 50 Mbs DL speeds. However, when connected via wifi to my airport extreme it drops to 5 to 6 Mbs. All my other wifi devices, including ATV3, computers, etc maintain a 40 to 50 Mbs DL on wifi. The Roku is a bit flakey with wifi.

I have four Rokus (only one new Roku 2), all wired and they have been perfect since I bought the first one nearly two years ago.
post #857 of 1001
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

My problem with it is that I need Netflix, Amazon and VUDU and it only does one of them.

That's my problem too.

I have to keep the Roku just for the free Amazon prime streaming, and now my kids want me to keep the PS3 because it can play games.

My Harmony remote only controls 5 devices ;-(

btw, how do you like the video quality of the ATV3? Have you tested its bitrate yet?
post #858 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

btw, how do you like the video quality of the ATV3? Have you tested its bitrate yet?

I don't buy stuff just to try it; there has to be some possibility that I'll keep it and there isn't any with ATV3. They say that it plays 1080p Netflix (and they've said it explicitly)--I don't see any reason to doubt that. It still doesn't bitstream Netflix's DD+. I've heard that it actually gets a separate set of encodings with integrated basic DD. Difficult to believe but Apple has the cash to pay for it if they want it, though why they wouldn't just convert the DD+ to basic DD I don't know. So far there're only a little over 1000 titles with 5.1 sound.
post #859 of 1001
So will this set of DD encodings be what the TiVo Premieres use when their new Netflix App launches later this month?

Or are these DD encodings only specific to Applle products?
post #860 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

So will this set of DD encodings be what the TiVo Premieres use when their new Netflix App launches later this month?

Or are these DD encodings only specific to Applle products?

Netflix streams DD+ which can be problematic for devices without the capability to decode it internally (like the Roku 2); few if any televisions and not every AVR can decode DD+ and if you send it to them you'll just get static out. At first, you had to remember to turn DD+ sound on every time you played a title with it on Roku 2; their recent update makes it "sticky"--if you ever select it (or closed captions) on a title, it will always be selected, persistent across reboots.

Ranger One has stated that one of his sources tells him that the ATV very specially gets basic DD streamed to it. Whether TiVo will get that or DD+ is unknown, but according to its system chip's specs it can decode DD+. Netflix DD+ can be played by a number of devices, including PS3, Roku 2, 2011 and 2012 Panasonic BD players, 2012 Sony BD players, WD TV Live, Boxee Box (I think), etc.
post #861 of 1001
The Roku2 can only bitstream the DD+ and the PS3 supposedly transcodes it to DD. Boxee Box is still limited to stereo. Currently the TiVo outputs PCM stereo if set to convert DD to PCM. if it can decode the DD+ and output multichannel PCM that would be great since one of my Elites is use with a legacy HDMI receiver.

I knew that netflix had DD+ tracks but was surprised to learn that there is supposedly a DD track just for the ATV.

I guess we'll find out soon enough for the TiVo Premieres since the new Netflix app is supposed to be released later this month.
post #862 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I knew that netflix had DD+ tracks but was surprised to learn that there is supposedly a DD track just for the ATV.

So was I--it seems stupid and expensive. Apple could license the Dolby tech to convert DD+ into basic DD, which is supposed to be computationally simple. Supposedly one reason for the use of DD+ is that it can be provided "on the side" of the video whereas basic DD has to be integrated with it. This implies that they have two complete sets of video encodings for every title with 5.1 sound, one with integrated basic DD sound and one with no integrated sound. I'd love to know for certain exactly how this is all organized but Netflix hasn't said anything about it.

Perhaps Apple is paying for the provision of basic DD. It's probably not prohibitively expensive yet, since there on only slightly over 1000 5.1 titles yet.
post #863 of 1001
From what I've read, DTS has always been based on a core + extensions model. That way, even old decoders can 'read' an HD Master feed by just ignoring the extensions? Too bad Dolby seems to become the 'standard' for everything other than BD.
post #864 of 1001
Some of the Dolby encodings have a basic 5.1 core as well. It doesn't really matter--you can't just throw DTS-HD HR or DTS-HD MA or Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD with a 5.1 core at an AVR which understands basic DTS or basic DD and expect them to play it; you have to extract that core and send that. That extraction amounts to a computationally simple conversion process which requires licensing of Dolby or DTS tech. I believe that Roku 2 bitstreams Netflix DD+ to avoid licensing any Dolby tech--they just pass basic DD (as from Amazon) or DD+ downstream to the connected AVR or television just as they receive it from the stream source.

The BD players have to license Dolby tech to decode various encoding to produce LPCM when the user request it for BD playback (they have to do it if you mix in secondary audio, like directors comments, etc). So BD players which stream 5.1 sound from Netflix can either bitstream it or ouput multichannel LPCM, if your connected AVR can't handle DD+.
post #865 of 1001
You can add another device to the list of Dolby Digital Plus streamers, the D-Link MovieNite DSM-310.

http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=917
post #866 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

You can add another device to the list of Dolby Digital Plus streamers, the D-Link MovieNite DSM-310.

http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=917

So does it only bitstream the DD+ tracks or can it decode to multichannel PCM or transcode to multichannel DD?

EDIT: i just looked at the manual. It's like the Roku2. You either get bitstreamed multichannel DD+ or stereo PCM. Those are the only choices for DD+ content. No decoding to multichannel PCM or transcoding to multichannel DD. Which I guess would be expected from a $48 box.
post #867 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post

You can add another device to the list of Dolby Digital Plus streamers, the D-Link MovieNite DSM-310.

http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=917

Was in Wally-world this afternoon, and strolled thru the electronic section to find the shelves stocked with newly added streaming devices, 2 Rokus-the XD and the XS, D-Link among them. One was a Sony, another, a tiny cable DTA sized RCA box. Plus the recent Panasonic blu ray, a Samsung and an LG.
Sorry, couldn't get all the model numbers down, I was in a rush.
post #868 of 1001
Remember folks, the Xbox also stream regular DD from Netflix, not just Apple TV.

It's also my understanding that the new TiVo Netflix player will support Dolby Digital initially and DD+ in a later release. It's supposed to be released at the end of the month.
post #869 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerOne View Post

Remember folks, the Xbox also stream regular DD from Netflix, not just Apple TV.

It's also my understanding that the new TiVo Netflix player will support Dolby Digital initially and DD+ in a later release. It's supposed to be released at the end of the month.

The Xbox calls it DD+ in its interface just like the PS3, so I've assumed that it's converting. AFAICT, only the Apple TV doesn't say DD+ (it just uses the Dolby tapehead logo). I don't understand the TiVo thing, inasmuch as the Broadcom SOC it's built around does DD+ decoding.
post #870 of 1001
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

The Xbox calls it DD+ in its interface just like the PS3, so I've assumed that it's converting. AFAICT, only the Apple TV doesn't say DD+ (it just uses the Dolby tapehead logo). I don't understand the TiVo thing, inasmuch as the Broadcom SOC it's built around does DD+ decoding.

The last time I spoke to TiVo about it was January. Personally, I hope they found a way to jump right to DD+. We'll know at the end of the month!
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