Best possible Netflix streaming device - Page 33

That clip is acting very strange; it's getting up to a certain bit rate and then falling back to the lowest one and the overlay is disappearing, sometimes not returning for a very long time (maybe never the last time it went away while I was watching). Try "Example 8 Hour 23.976", the only other clip with those overlays. It steadily climbed through encodes, the overlay never disappeared and it didn't sporadically fall back to super-low bit rate encodes.

I wonder if the short clip's become extremely popular? You mention things in AVS Forum and they spread through the net. After it'd existed for a while, my old list of Netflix titles with 5.1 sound was referenced in countless blogs; I was in a conversation on another site and someone told me about it . I wonder what happens if there's a constant huge demand for a title?

I got the 1080 encode on the 8 hour. Do you have any reason to believe that its a 1080 encode anytime it shows X-High? I have seen it many different TV shows, it seems unlikely they could all be 1080. But that is what @Netflixhelps on Twitter claims.

Why does it seem unlikely to you? AFAICT, nearly all HD Netflix titles have 3 HD video encodes, two 720p ones at 2350 Kpbs and 3600 Kbps ("Medium/HD" and "High/HD") and a single 1080p encode at 4800 Kbps ("X-High/HD"); add to that 192 Kbps for stereo or 384 Kbps for DD+ 5.1 sound. I have run across a few HD Netflix titles which didn't have 1080p encodes, including that recent run of big-ticket Paramount films they got via their Epix deal (Captain America, Thor, Super 8, True Grit, Warrior, etc); most of those top out at "High/HD", 3600 Kbps 720p and most don't have digital 5.1 surround. There's really no reason why they wouldn't create a 1080p encode for a title except when the content provider forbids it, perhaps wanting to save 1080p for people who pay more.

Often it's not that big of a difference.
Edited by michaeltscott - 10/30/12 at 7:57pm

Thanks, but I never saw that 4800Kbps 1080p come up on my revue nor on my PC. I don't think my XPS PC outputs 1080p (will check what the card does support). I also guess since the revue was dropped by Logitech, its not on any of those links.
I'm not complaining though...........720P isn't too bad for streaming.

I tried playing "Example Short 23.976" and for some reason it's gotten wonky, with the overlay disappearing repeatedly and jumping back to lower bit rate encodes repeatedly (I theorize that it's become very popular and the weirdness is an effect of a ton of people playing it simultaneously). Try "Example 8 Hour 23.976", the only other clip with those overlays.

The PC web player only outputs up to 720p; sadly that applies to the new Windows 8 app too. As I said above, often it's not that much of a visible improvement (of course we AV freaks want every little bit of PQ we can get ).

Thanks for that info, I was just under the impression that the number of 1080p encodes was much lower than the quality indicator represents.

If you'd like to see an example of the difference between Netflix 1080p and 720p, follow the instructions below (wrapped in [SPOILER] tags to protect the uninterested ).

A Comparison of Netflix 1080p to Netflix 720p (Click to show)

I saw that thread about a year ago, I did not know imageshack screwed it up. Msoghan did some excellent work. The difference is very clear in that example.
Edited by puregenius - 10/31/12 at 5:30pm

BTW, aaronwt, I have read (here) that the V2.10 PS3 Netflix player is now bitstreaming DD+ for titles with digital 5.1 sound. It still can't do it for the PS3 Fats. their HDMI interface apparently incapable of it, but it converts DD+ to basic DD on them.

I don't know if anyone can help.

I've just got the WD TV Live Media Streamer to get Netflix in 1080p and 5.1 audio.

I set it up with the video output set to 'HDMI Auto'. When playing a 1080p netflix title, my TV shows that it is recieving a 1080i signal. If I change the video output on the WD TV Live to '1080p/60', then the TV does show 1080p (as expected). But is that just because the WD TV Live is deinterlacing a 1080i netflix input?

The WD TV Live is feeding into a Yamaha RX-V1900 and from that to a full1080p Sony TV.

Thanks for any help

Netflix does not have a 1080i encode to send it, just 6 standard def ones, two 720p24 and one 1080p24 (and now a second 1080p24 they're calling "Super HD" that very few people can get yet).

Thanks for your reply.

So maybe I should set the WD TV Live output to 1080p/24? (my TV can do 24fps).

But what about TV shows; aren't they 30fps? Do netflix convert and send HD versions of those at 24fps?

Thanks

Thanks, but I recently unplugged my PS3. I was trying to play 3D BDs from it but it kept saying my system would not support it. So I went out and got a Panasonic DMP BDT-220 3D BD player (which was on sale at BestBuy) which has no issues sending the 3D BD content in my system. Plus I found it has Netflix , Vudu, etc, and does an excellent job. So I'm not even sure if I'll need the PS3 any more since these newer BD players are so much faster with discs and streaming services than the last one I bought in 2009.
The Panny is as good or better than the PS3 so I can use the Panasonic as an option now. Plus it uses alot less power than the PS3.

I just wish I could try out the new Netflix SuperHD streaming and 3D streaming. But since I have FiOS, the odds are probably very long that I will ever have the option to view them.

By all means if your television can accept 24p send that to it; let it decide how best to convert. If its native refresh rate is some multiple thereof (120 Hz or 240 Hz) it could be capable of displaying it with straight frame replication, avoiding any 2:3 pulldown judder. Those of us with older monitors (like me) which can't take 24p in have to depend upon how well our devices handle that, which varies. (Of all the Netflix playing platforms I have my Panasonic BDT220 is hands down the best, and it's also one of the rare platforms which can output 24p from network VOD sources like Netflix).

Some older television programs available from Netflix are encoded as 30p and most British TV is 25p but the great majority of television is on Netflix is 24p. Modern stuff is probably shot to 24p HDCAM (and before that 24p film and transferred) and converted to 30 or 60 fps for broadcast. You can check using the PC web player--play a title and when it's running (not blown up full-screen) left click the picture to give the player keyboard focus and type CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-D to bring up a diagnostic overlay. You can read the frame rate from a line labelled "Video Frames (rendered/dropped)".

With CES happening now, there should be new fodder for this thread soon.

In particular, I'm hoping this year that more companies offer blu-ray/streaming players that can play DLNA and netlfix at 1080p24 with all sound and video codecs supported.

Currently I have an LG player which has excellent 24p support. It automatically switches the output frame rate to match the source framerate. It also plays every flavor of file thrown at it from servers in my basement. 20GB 1080p mkv files with DTS sound play with no glitches. Unfortunately it only does netflix at 720p. This had me considering a Panasonic model last year. But word is that they don't automatically switch between framerates and that they can't play xvid due to threats of patent litigation. (Or was that divx? It only does one of the two and i'm not eager to settle for a workaround)

Now I see that the panasonic website lists new product for pre-order. Unfortunately they don't list the specs or features.
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/blu-ray-dvd-blu-ray-disc-players

Anyone have details on if any such miracle player is being released this year?

Thanks for that; a very useful thing to know. I just checked a few things. Most seemed to be 24. I checked one older TV show and it was 30. I'll check a few more.

I've been switching output between 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 and did wonder if 1080p/60 was a bit better, but I'll check some more. My TV manual does say that if inputing HDMI out from a PC, use 60HZ. Is a WDTV Live a PC type device or a blueray player type device?

Thanks

I'm unable to bring up the overlay on Win XP. I thought that is was posted it had been removed, but I can't find the thread that might have mentioned it. Would you happen to recall them? Thank you.

The manual is over-simplifying because that simplification might be preferable to the general public. Unfortunately it also confuses the issue for someone looking to understand framerates for the first time.

It really doesn't matter what the "type" of device is, but rather the frame rate of the video and whether or not your player and display support that frame rate. Any type of device may or may not have limitations. Almost all movies and a good percentage of (american) TV shows are shot in 24p. So if you have a player and display capable of that, definitely use 24p. The goal is to not do any framerate conversion because this results in the best looking video.

Keep in mind though that this only applies to video sources like netflix or blu-ray. When watching TV from a cable system or antenna, the display should be set to 60p.

I can't imagine that they the PC web player works any differently for Windows XP than on the Windows 7 or 8. You must be doing something wrong. You have to click on the picture and then type CTRL-SHIFT-ALT-D; it will not work if the picture is blown up full-screen (if you bring up the overlay before blowing the picture up full-screen the overlay will stay).

Hands down, the best streaming device is getting a Samsung Smart TV, netfix and UnoTelly. It lets you get all of the content out of Netflix if you happen not to live in the US. Check it out.

Not sure about out of the US, but my new Roku has been pretty impressive. More channels ( 500+), constant updates, very good pq (1080p) and blows away my PC and smart Panny BD player, especially when it comes to navigation and BD like setup menus on Netflix.


Ian
Edited by mailiang - 1/19/13 at 12:15pm

My Roku 2's Netflix player is definitely more responsive to navigation commands, faster to start streams and generally more convenient to use than my BDT220 (which also plays 1080p in Netflix), but the Panny kicks its ass up one side of the street and down the other in terms of video rendering. Many fewer blatant digital artifacts like banding and rarely a noticeable bit of judder, even with judder-fest titles like Hugo. The Panasonic BDT220, BDT320, BDT500 and BBT01 are some of the few devices on the market capable of outputting Netflix and other network VOD sources in their encodes' native 24p, albeit that you annoyingly have to enable that when you first start the app.

I still usually use the Roku 2 to watch Netflix because I'm usually not so picky about the video for the things that I tend to watch on Netflix. The BDT220 is my player of choice for VUDU.

I guess we are almost in the same boat. However, the only time I watch Vudu is when I get a coupon, so for now I'll stick with the more versatile Roku, which still looks very good on my PDP with most content. For block buster titles it's all Blu-Ray 24p for me.


Ian
Edited by mailiang - 1/19/13 at 2:45pm

Is there any official reason, why Netflix looks softer on my ATV 3 than on my PS3? The ATV 3 is set for 1080p 60 out - but units are on same network, so that can not be the cause. I am getting disappointed in my ATV :-(

I would think the ATV does less extra sharpening than the PS3 maybe? I haven't seen any sharpening settings at all in the ATV. In my opinion the picture quality in the ATV is great and I feel no need for any extra sharpness.

Maybe you have a HD ready (i.e 720p) TV set and the ATV is outputting in 1080p causing resizing in the TV? In that case set the ATV to 720p.

I do not have a TV. I use a JVC X30 projector on 92" screen and the difference between PS3 and ATV3 is noticeable.

We have use an Apple TV3 and a Roku 2 XD on our 2 1080p TVs. I am going to get another Roku for a 50" 720p plasma that gets a lot of use in our family room. Is there any reason I shouldn't save some money and go with the LT or HD roku model over the 1080p models since this TV is only 720p. Our main usage will be Netflix, MLB.tv, and Amazon Instant PPV rentals in that order. We rarely use other channels and we aren't interested in roku games.

MLB.tv and Amazon only send out 720p so I'm not worried about those services. Netflix is my main concern. Do the HD and LT models still get the non- super HD highest quality 1080p 5.1 DD+ Netflix streams? I know those models can't output 1080p but I would think the quality would be better due to the higher bitrate even when it is output at 720p. If the 720p roku models max out at the 720p bitrate Netflix streams am I better off buying a 1080p Roku and setting it to output 720p?

I bought a WD TV Live last month which has now become my favorite Netflix streamer, primarily because it has this stream status display (the video PQ level indicator has changed from "Medium/HD", "High/HD", etc to "720 HD", "1080 HD", etc). I really, really love that inasmuch as it gives me the ability to determine whether a title's transfer is crappy or I'm just not getting the best quality encode for whatever reason. Only the PS3-style Netflix common embedded UI seems to have that feature and not every device with that UI enables it. I have a noisy, power hungry launch model 60GB PS3 and an irksome-to-use Sony BDP-S390 both of which have the feature; the TV Live is silent, reasonably thrifty with electricity and pleasant to use. It also allows you to toggle subtitles on and off with a remote button (actually, cycle through the available options, which is the same when they're "English" and "None"). It's the best video file player that I own; it's played every format that I have without a problem, which was definitely not true of my Panasonic and Sony BD players. It's not a feature that I would use much though, since this PC is connected to the same LCD panel and AVR that all the rest of my stuff is.

If the Roku's Netflix player gained that video PQ indicator it would go back to being my favorite. On the Roku 3 the player starts up in 4 seconds, is very responsive to navigation commands and starts streams in 2-3 seconds.

The WD may be a better device but some of the family is not too tech savvy and they already know how to use the Apple TV and Roku so I would rather stick with one of those devices. I think everyone actually prefers the Apple TV UI but we can pick up a LT for $50 or a HD for $60 and this room will get the least amount of streaming. Most of it will come in the other rooms that already have an Apple TV3 and Roku 2 XD.


What I really want to know is will a 720p Roku HD look and sound as good on a 720p TV as a 1080p Roku set to output 720p? Do they get the same max bitrate streams from Netflix? If not I will pick up another Roku 2 XD or Apple TV.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I'm fairly sure that if you set the output of a Roku 2 XD or XS to 720p the best it will stream is the highest bit rate 720p encode. I've run across a couple of devices which will ramp up to the 1080p encodes when their maximum output is set to 720p (TiVo Premiere, Sony BDP-S390) but most won't.