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Building a low power, high perf NAS with iSCSI

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone,
I am starting a thread related to my quest for a NAS box build.
[apologies for yet another thread, but my requirements are rather complex]
If you look into my requirements you may notice that I want a fully featured NAS box. A simple external HDD connected to a router wont do.


My background:
I have been running multiple computers at home [all PCs] with one HTPC serving as a 'server'. I have many other PCs which use the server. I am a System Administrator by profession, work mostly with Windows servers and VMware with a bit of Linux servers and Macs thrown in.

My requirements:
1. high network throughput capability
2. low power consumption
3. Ability to backup to external device [like external HDD or tape]
4. iSCSI capable
5. RAID-5 in hardware [preferably RAID6]
6. Granular permissions control over its file shares.
7. Expandable to multi-terabyte capacity

Nice to have:
DLNA

My application:

The NAS will serve as a central data repository for stuff like recorded TV, movies, photos, music, data etc
I will use it to serve a lot of photos which I edit on another PC in Adobe Lightroom. I also do HD video editing and want to store the RAW and final videos on the NAS. That means transferring large files over the network.
This is why I need high network throughput.


Low Power I don’t want to keep a PC running 24x7. So the NAS should consume low power and also be able to sleep at night time.
However, I do want data to be available all the time. So Wake on LAN type things are needed.

Integrated backup would be very nice. Although I do understand that I could simply backup the NAS' contents over the network from another PC.

DLNA would be also nice in order to support hardware based devices like receivers but I hear DLNA is no good anyway.

iSCSI capability is very nice! Win 7 supports it natively. This will allow media center to easily record directly to NAS.

RAID:
As an IT admin, RAID is second nature to me. I work with large SANs at work too.
My experience with firmware RAID [the kind where you have it in the motherboard's BIOS, like Intel® Matrix Storage Technology] has been very good. However, I have mostly used RAID 0 for higher speeds. I have on occasion used RAID-5 but have not run any bench marks on it.

My testing:
In my VMware environment, I have already tested:

1. freeNAS
  • easy setup
  • Could not get SMB [windows file sharing] working properly
  • iSCSI works fine but I heard it can have only 1 iSCSI target.
  • Network throughput was OK but not a valid test since I was in a VM.
  • I hear that freeNAS's network throughput may not be good.

2. OpenFiler
  • Little more involved setup
  • SMB worked
  • iSCSI works fine
  • Network throughput was OK but not a valid test since I was in a VM.
  • I hear that I could use backup software called "Amanda" inside OpenFiler's Linux OS.


unRAID:
I have also researched into unRAID [not tested it yet] but I worry about the slow network throughput most people talk about.

Windows Home server:
This is also one option I have considered but it does not serve my needs totally. Plus I have heard about slow network throughput and such.

Information I am looking for:

1. Has anyone used an atom CPU and done any network throughput type benchmarks with any NAS OS?

I worry that the atom may not have enough power to serve large files over a GB network quickly.

2. How is the disk r/w speed with firmware RAID-5?

3. What motherboard would you recommend for this application?

4. How much power are we looking at?

In my testing with a wattmeter, I have seen that my current HTPC sucks around 230 watts from the power line. It is a core2duo on an intel motherboard, with a 2x 500 GB RAID0 and a GT6600 GPU. Running it 24x7 is simply unacceptable to me. [hence this NAS quest!]

Your recommendations and comments are welcome.
post #2 of 51
Thread Starter 
reserving for future NAS build instructions
post #3 of 51
Thread Starter 
Here is my experience with Openfiler [OF] till date.
  • Everything is on enterprise grade gigabit switches.
  • OF was setup on a standard Dell Optiplex 755 with a single 80 GB hdd [no RAID]

Downloaded from http://www.openfiler.com/community/download/ I used the “ISO Image (x86/64)”
Installation was pretty straightforward but at the partitioning step, you need to manually edit the root [/] partition to be 1024MB…otherwise the auto partitioning will use up all disk space and leave nothing for our use.


iSCSI setup:
one word....Works fine!

I used these instructions for setting iSCSI in openfiler:
http://www.techhead.co.uk/how-to-con...ith-vmware-esx

Note: I only used the instructions until he says “Open Filer Configuration Stage Finished!”
Then I opened up Windows control panel and searched for iSCSI. In the setup tool I entered the IP of openfiler and it immediately detected the iSCSI target. I told it to use it.
Then I went to disk management and assigned a drive letter and formatted the iSCSI “disk”.

File sharing:
Instructions for setting up file sharing was taken from here:
https://forums.openfiler.com/viewtopic.php?id=2491

Note: I struggled lot and the file share authentication did not work for me. I kept getting authentication errors. I ended up just enabling public access. [Need to spend more time] I think our FDCC secure desktop settings may be the culprit.

Anyway I went ahead, with the benchmarks.

Here are my benchmarks on OF:
These numbers were observed on a windows server 2003 VM [its drives are on our SAN]:


using fileshare:
write to OF = 280 mbps = 33.3 MB/s
read from OF = 260 mbps = 31 MB/s

using iSCSI:
write to OF = 540 mbps = 64 MB/s
read from OF = 260 mbps = 31 MB/s

Notes:
1. I think "read from OF speeds" are limited to the "write to disk" speed of the VM.
2. Notice the huge jump of writing to OF when comparing fileshare vs iSCSI.



I will also try to use some kind of backup [maybe Amanda] software on OF.

Amanda + Openfiler:
The more I search about Amanda and Openfiler I more I get convinced why we do IT the way it is right now. Keep it simple, otherwise it is simply not worth it!

For once you cannot install Amanda server on Openfiler. The people who are talking about running Amanda on openfiler are actually installing a client of Amanda.

http://forums.zmanda.com/showthread.php?t=2699
http://www.lost-it.org/drupal/?q=node/234
https://forums.openfiler.com/viewtopic.php?pid=23249

Having a simple Windows server with a Tape drive gives me almost all the features I want [not iSCSI though]. However I could get Windows Storage Server and get iSCSI.

I thought about iSCSI and my idea of recording everything to the NAS using a iSCSI mounted drive on the NAS. But then how will I give access to these recording all the other HTPCs? I could do a read only mount of that volume on the other HTPCs.

Maybe iSCSI is not that important after all. Man! It sure is fast :-)


More later :-)
post #4 of 51
Thread Starter 
reserving #3 for future NAS build instructions
post #5 of 51
Thread Starter 
reserving #4 for future NAS build instructions
post #6 of 51
Thread Starter 
reserving f#5 or future NAS build instructions
post #7 of 51
What kind of network performance are you looking for?
post #8 of 51
Thread Starter 
well, as high as possible :-)

For numbers.........here at work I regularly get around 25 MB/s speeds over a gigabit network while downloading large files off an old file server.

However, I get 40 - 48 MB/s [around 333 - 402 mbps] to and fro the SAN.

Something around those lines would be really nice to have.

HD Video files are pretty huge off my Canon 7D DSLR.
post #9 of 51
Well write speeds on an unraid box without a cache drive will be somewhere between 20-40MB/s. That is what I get. With a cache drive added, you can increase those by a factor of 2-3 times. All dependent on hardware of course. I'm using a supermicro C2SEE mobo and an intel celeron 430 and usually average around 30MB/s write speed although I did hit 43.8MB/s on a 20GB mkv file transfer the other day. I'm using the samsung F3 2TB drives btw.

I haven't tested my read speeds though as I only use it as a media server. To be honest, I find DLNA to be more trouble than it's worth and am quite happy with smb.
post #10 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

Well write speeds on an unraid box without a cache drive will be somewhere between 20-40MB/s. That is what I get. With a cache drive added, you can increase those by a factor of 2-3 times. All dependent on hardware of course. I'm using a supermicro C2SEE mobo and an intel celeron 430 and usually average around 30MB/s write speed although I did hit 43.8MB/s on a 20GB mkv file transfer the other day. I'm using the samsung F3 2TB drives btw.

I haven't tested my read speeds though as I only use it as a media server. To be honest, I find DLNA to be more trouble than it's worth and am quite happy with smb.

yea.. no cache drive here and misc diff hdd mostly 5400-5900rpm, I ave. ~30MB up (writing parity of course), and 65MB down. I'm very pleased with my speed.
post #11 of 51
Thread Starter 
Interesting!

So you guys are getting pretty healthy speeds from unRaid! From the stuff I have read........I got the impression that unRaid was slow.

Unfortunately, unRaid does not do iSCSI

Anyone with experience with Openfiler here?
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

Interesting!

So you guys are getting pretty healthy speeds from unRaid! From the stuff I have read........I got the impression that unRaid was slow.

Unfortunately, unRaid does not do iSCSI

Anyone with experience with Openfiler here?

60M write performance with unraid and a cache drive on 3 year old hardware. I can saturate a Gig-E link with multuiple read streams. good luck on your project. seems ambitious.


Sean
post #13 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

60M write performance with unraid and a cache drive on 3 year old hardware. I can saturate a Gig-E link with multiple read streams. good luck on your project. seems ambitious.


Sean

WOW ! that opened up my eyes
60 MBps? Are you sure?

I just looked at this page:
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/inde...t_is_unRAID.3F

they say:
Quote:
read speeds *from* your server and writes to non parity-protected drives (such as the Cache drive) should typically be between 22MB/s and 40MB/s, with some reports of 45MB/s. Write speeds directly to parity-protected drives should be between 15MB/s and 25MB/s, with write speeds to User Shares a bit slower.



Please tell me what is your config inside unraid....you are not running some RAID0 or something, are you?

BTW, what is a cache drive [I gotta read up on that]
post #14 of 51
A cache drive is a disk that is not parity protected, so writes to it are full speed.

Within unRAID, there is a scheduled job that migrates data from the cache disk to the parity protected array.

The FAQ was probably written several years ago. Disks are considerably faster than they used to be.

FWIW I get better write and read performance to my unRAID than I did the Netgear RNDU4000. This is the recipe I used: http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...94878#msg94878
post #15 of 51
I have been researching getting some large NAS for many months. I was VERY interested in the Synology 1500+ which cost about $900 without and hard drives. It has everything you can think of as in serving needs and the performance is stellar for read and write. My main goal was to get the best I could afford. I started saving up for the Synology then came across the free three drive unRAID software. Since I already had the hardware for it, I decided to re-do my Win7 server and make it an unRAID box. I have and use only Western Digital Black series drives. I use them because of their performance and how reliable they have been for me. I don't want a slow server. I have an Intel duo care E6750 processor with an Intel DQ35MP mainboard. The hardware is all about 2 years old or a little less. So I setup my unRAID box using 5 1TB drives I had and one 1TB drive for the parity drive. NO cache drive now. Everything worked right off the start. Once I got familair with how unRAID worked, it all became even more easier and fluent to use. The one thing I was concerned about was the speeds since when reading the unRAID FAQ they indicated pretty slow speeds compared to other systems. My network is %100 1Gb. Anyway to top it off my write speeds to the array is average 25-35mb/sec. This isn't the best I would want, but since this array is mainly for storage and streaming I could live with that. Plus, I can always add a cache drive which would probably increase that to 50-60mb/sec. Maybe even higher. The more important speeds are the read speeds. Since I'll be streaming a lot. Even high bit rate bluray files. The average read speed I get is 80-105mb/sec which is fantastic in my opinion. On that same hardware with Windows 7 I only got 50 or 60mb/sec. I've been using the unRAID for about a week now and I'm very happy with it. I haven't completely forgot about the Synology, but I have a feeling I wouldn't spend $900 on just box. My unRAID box is completely able to accept more hard drives once I get an SATA add on card. They cost about $100 for a standard one. So as of right now I have only spent $70 on the unRAID plus server software. Not bad for hardware I already had. And booting off the flash drive is great. It doesn't waste a boot drive.

Good luck.
post #16 of 51
Congrats opentoe. I'm glad you gave it a shot and it worked for you.
post #17 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

WOW ! that opened up my eyes
60 MBps? Are you sure?

I just looked at this page:
http://lime-technology.com/wiki/inde...t_is_unRAID.3F

they say:




Please tell me what is your config inside unraid....you are not running some RAID0 or something, are you?

BTW, what is a cache drive [I gotta read up on that]

yes I'm very sure....

Sean
post #18 of 51
I just ran some power consumption tests on my unRAID and was quite pleased with the numbers.

Boot (peak): 158
Spinning up disks peak: 148
All disks spun up no activity: 76 occasionally jumping 5w
Idle (avg): 46 watts
Watching one movie: 52 watts
Active (parity check): 103 (range is 91 to 103)

I hope to get it a little lower with better fan control (powering them off when not needed with thermal sensors/switches).

That is with 7 Seagate 5900 RPM 2TB disks for 11TB of usable file system.
post #19 of 51
Thread Starter 
thanks for your feedback.

Looks like everyone here is leaning towards unRAID.

I looked at it yesterday [just the specs] looks good.
I think the R/W bottleneck [actually not too bad] is due to the software RAID.

Advantages are ability to use different sized drives. Disadvantage is speed.
post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

thanks for your feedback.

Looks like everyone here is leaning towards unRAID.

I looked at it yesterday [just the specs] looks good.
I think the R/W bottleneck [actually not too bad] is due to the software RAID.

Advantages are ability to use different sized drives. Disadvantage is speed.

Remember your read speeds will be untouched and go as fast as they can. Which is what a streamer needs.
post #21 of 51
Even my slow HP MSS WHS with twenty eight hard drives(twenty from USB) has no issues streaming three high bitrate BD ISOs concurrently. Although if I try a fourth stream then problems start. But even with my INtel NAS(configured with RAID5) that can reach 700mbps read speeds(with upgraded memory), I still can't get more than three high bitrate BD ISOs to stream concurrently with no issues.
post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post
My requirements:

4. iSCSI capable

My application:

The NAS will serve as a central data repository for stuff like recorded TV, movies, photos, music, data etc


iSCSI capability is very nice! Win 7 supports it natively. This will allow media center to easily record directly to NAS.
Don't know how important iSCSI capability still is to you, but it looks like a forum user is closer to getting iSCSI working on a full slackware version of unRAID.

http://lime-technology.com/forum/ind...?topic=10089.0

it is on the roadmap as "never", but that could change if enough support is generated-
http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=9987.0
post #23 of 51
Thread Starter 
Over this weekend a couple of things happened which may change this project.

1. My HTPC1 which also works as a server stopped responding. It was so bad that at one point I thought I lost the disk array and I'll have to rebuild it. Miraculously it started working on its own. I never could find what actually went wrong. I suspect the external HDD.

2. I found out that backups on my HTPC1 which also works as a server were not really working properly for the past few weeks. I use Acronis True Image Home 2009. Frankly I have never been happy with the reliability and options/features of that software.

If the server had lost all data AND the backups were not really there.I'd have lost ALL my critical data. This has made backups extremely important to me now.

As an IT guy, we swear by enterprise backup stuff like tape libraries and ArcServe, Backupexec etc. That has grown to be extremely reliable in the past few years. However, it is still prohibitively expensive for home use. But as my wife put it, our digital memories are priceless.

This makes backup my first priority.

So at this point I may want to look at a Windows Server having a tape drive running Backupexec. Maybe WHS will do. especially that now the new version is coming out.

But with that [I guess] low power goes out of the picture

Presently LTO-3 tape drives are around $1500. That will take 400 GB native. My critical data is currently around 250 GB and growing. I could look for LTO-4 but that gets even more expensive.

What do you use for backups?
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post
Over this weekend a couple of things happened which may change this project.

1. My HTPC1 which also works as a server stopped responding. It was so bad that at one point I thought I lost the disk array and I'll have to rebuild it. Miraculously it started working on its own. I never could find what actually went wrong. I suspect the external HDD.

2. I found out that backups on my HTPC1 which also works as a server were not really working properly for the past few weeks. I use Acronis True Image Home 2009. Frankly I have never been happy with the reliability and options/features of that software.

If the server had lost all data AND the backups were not really there.I'd have lost ALL my critical data. This has made backups extremely important to me now.


As an IT guy, we swear by enterprise backup stuff like tape libraries and ArcServe, Backupexec etc. That has grown to be extremely reliable in the past few years. However, it is still prohibitively expensive for home use. But as my wife put it, our digital memories are priceless.

This makes backup my first priority.

So at this point I may want to look at a Windows Server having a tape drive running Backupexec. Maybe WHS will do. especially that now the new version is coming out.

But with that [I guess] low power goes out of the picture

Presently LTO-3 tape drives are around $1500. That will take 400 GB native. My critical data is currently around 250 GB and growing. I could look for LTO-4 but that gets even more expensive.

What do you use for backups?
Use crashplan http://www.crashplan.com I have over 18TB on there right now.
post #25 of 51
if your time is worth money, then you should get a QNAP and call it at day. There is a model for every budget range. Most models do iSCSI and fit all of your requirements.

Check out the model matrix here:
http://www.qnap.com/Products.asp


Check out the comparison table here:
http://www.qnap.com/images/products/...rison_NAS.html
post #26 of 51
I gathered some other power numbers last night.

D-Link 8-port switch: 4 watts
Cisco E3000: 10 watts
Fry's 5-port switch: 1 watt
Uverse RG: 50 watts


Netgear RNDU4000
Boot (peak): 41
All disks spun up no activity: 15
Idle: 8
Watching one movie: 15
Active (writing large file): 18
post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

Over this weekend a couple of things happened which may change this project.

1. My HTPC1 which also works as a “server” stopped responding. It was so bad that at one point I thought I lost the disk array and I’ll have to rebuild it. Miraculously it started working on its own. I never could find what actually went wrong. I suspect the external HDD.

2. I found out that backups on my HTPC1 which also works as a “server” were not really working properly for the past few weeks. I use Acronis True Image Home 2009. Frankly I have never been happy with the reliability and options/features of that software.

If the server had lost all data AND the backups were not really there……….I’d have lost ALL my critical data. This has made backups extremely important to me now.

As an IT guy, we swear by enterprise backup stuff like tape libraries and ArcServe, Backupexec etc. That has grown to be extremely reliable in the past few years. However, it is still prohibitively expensive for home use. But as my wife put it, our digital memories are priceless.

This makes backup my first priority.

So at this point I may want to look at a Windows Server having a tape drive running Backupexec. Maybe WHS will do. especially that now the new version is coming out.

But with that [I guess] “low power” goes out of the picture

Presently LTO-3 tape drives are around $1500. That will take 400 GB native. My critical data is currently around 250 GB and growing. I could look for LTO-4 but that gets even more expensive.

What do you use for backups?

With such a small amount of critical data, why not just get a 2TB hard drive(under$100) to put the info on for a backup.

For me I use a WHS with duplication, an INtel NAS with RAID 5, a software RAID 5 solution in a networked PC(TiVo Server) , a couple of DLink NAS boxes with RAID 1, and a 2TB eSATA/USB box with rebit software for backup of my main PC which uses a couple of RAID 0 arrays.(so i use reBit and also image the system periodically since if any of the five drives in the arrays dies, it's toast.)
post #28 of 51
I have a recently built 22 TB Unraid NAS and I absolutely love it. The bulk of my storage is ISO's of my large DVD/BD collection so i'm not terribly concerned with losing those. For the pictures and documents (that I also backup to the NAS) I use mozy.com

My build was designed for low power and consists of the following:

Supermicro X8SIL-F (KVM over IP, 3x PCI-Express)
Pentium G6950 2.8ghz 1156 processor
Norco 4220 (20x hot swap)
WD Green 2tb drives

And for the cache drive I'm using a WD 300GB 15k Raptor and I consistently get 60MB/s+ when transferring to the NAS.

I absolutely love UNRAID. And this is coming from a Windows guys. Love the fact that even in absolute complete disaster (loss of 2x drives) I can still recover the data from any single drive (assuming its still functional). Drives spin down when not in use--haven't taken any power measurements yet but plan on doing so in the near future.

Good luck with your endeavour!
post #29 of 51
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Use crashplan http://www.crashplan.com I have over 18TB on there right now.

I have tried backup to cloud using Mozy.

Very slow uploads but the deal breaker was the restore problems.

When the time came to restore [I lost a disk] Mozy gave me a hard time. the client kept on giving me errors. I opened a ticket and the support guys kept going roung and round in circles.

However, after about 2 weeks of troubleshooting, they were finally able to restore my data.

have you tried restoring data with Crashplan yet?
post #30 of 51
Thread Starter 
WOW !
this may be the perfect thing! It even does backups! Sweet!

For example this $350 TS-219P+ Turbo NAS' specs say:
Quote:


You can configure the one-touch-copy button on the front of the NAS to copy the data from the NAS to an external storage device or vice versa.

I wonder how good is its performance?? Gotta google it.


Wait wait. I think I spoke too soon.........I looked at reviews at newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822107018

The backups are just a copy and I quote:

Quote:


There's no good local backup solution for the NAS itself. You can perform what is essentially an copy from the NAS to an external drive, but that's it. No incrementals, no compression, AND NO RESTORE!

I'm not sure this will do. I want proper daily backups which go back a month or so. Not just one copy of my data. What if something gets deleted accidently. Gone forever?



Quote:
Originally Posted by doctor media View Post

if your time is worth money, then you should get a QNAP and call it at day. There is a model for every budget range. Most models do iSCSI and fit all of your requirements.

Check out the model matrix here:
http://www.qnap.com/Products.asp


Check out the comparison table here:
http://www.qnap.com/images/products/...rison_NAS.html
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